Maybe I should grow sideburns . . .

Charney has really lost a lot of weight. Stress? Not to even think such a horrible thought but is there any chance he might have contracted HIV?

You've got AIDS! Not HIV, but full-blown AIDS!!!

ABC's victim mentality is interesting and seems to have started years ago ... "I got a bad grade only because I'm conservative" to "Partners are mean to me only because I'm gay."

It seems that ABC cannot fathom that there may be far less sinister reasons for bad things that may happen to him - like he deserved the bad grade, or some partners are assholes or shit sometimes happens.

"In your reactions to it, some have you attacked it as pro-S&C, while others have criticized it as pro-Charney. This strikes us as evidence of the article's evenhanded nature."

That is terrible logic. Do you think the judge in this case is going to take the same approach?

Thanks guy who defines what is good and what is bad logic. *rolls eyes*

Hi, welcome to life, where you can argue anything. A dispute doesn't mean the two sides are equally wrong. To assume otherwise is bad logic.

Anyway, you're welcome. Glad to help.

Welcome back, Terry. You're the guy who got pwn3d in this thread:

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/02/an_alternative_career_path_for_1.php

Yeah, you can argue anything. And lose.

Whatever the merits (or lack thereof) of Charney's case, his complaints about Eben Moglen were almost certainly justified. Moglen took great pleasure in being a hyper-liberal contrarian, and seemed to take special pleasure in singling out conservative gay students for ridicule and giving them undeserved low grades. A gay classmate of mine who criticized Moglen for euthanizing his terminally ill father (randomly brought up with no context by Moglen himself) was called to Moglen's office and told that Moglen would do everything in his power to prevent him from graduating. Moglen also violated nearly every academic ethical rule imaginable, including dating students in his class and doing away with first year blind grading. Charney's sense that he was unfairly treated by Moglen was almost certainly justified.

Woah woah woah 5:17. WSJ blog just deleted a bunch of comments which were critical of Moglen, and none were as nearly bad as yours!

If it is so well known that this guy is a horrible professor, why did anyone who was (or should have been) concerned take his classes? So far as I can tell from the CLS website, he teaches only electives.

They stripped him of teaching 1L's after numerous complaints and a vicious article in the Dartmouth Review, but during Charney's time, his class was part of 1L requirements and people were stuck in it through sheer bad luck.

because he used to teach a first year requirement

One nitpick: In describing the first alleged harassment incident, the author writes:

"... sometime after midnight, the alleged remark was made."

Now, that doesn't make a lick of sense. If the alleged remark "was made," then it wasn't just alleged -- it actually happened!

I think what the author should have said was, "... sometime after midnight, Krautheimer allegedly remarked ...."

So everyone knows that this Prof. Moglen is a wacky leftist who has done away with blind grading, right?

So what does Charney do? He advertises that he is a libertarian in class and then is "shocked, shocked" that this is somehow reflected in his grade.

Charney of course was in the right that his libertarian views shouldn't influence his grades, but he was asking for a conflict here.

As every good grade grubbing student knows, you maximize your grades by mirroring the professor's views (even in blind graded classes).

5:59 p.m. Thanks for the tip. I wish I had known that when I was Loyola 1L. Then maybe I wouldn't have been limited to toilet firms.

I'm a deeply conservative member of every majority, and I typically judge things based on my inherent conservative bias, but I just can't feel out this case.

On one hand, I hate Charney because 1)he's gay, 2) suing his white-shoe employer who represents huge corps in M&A matters, 3) for "sexual orientation discrimination," whatever that is, 4) based on an ultra-PC reaction to potentially harmless remarks

On the other hand, 1) I hate that flaming liberal Alexandra Korry, 2) I like Charney because he is deeply conservative, 3) Charney was wronged by flaming liberal Moglen, and 4) pro-gay groups have supported S&C, who also hires Canadians (more flaming libs).

I wish Rush or O'Reiley would comment on this case so I know what I am supposed to think.

Not very libertarian of Mr. Charney to avail himself of the anti-discrimination laws.

Well, I lived in a rent controlled apartment.

We live within the existing unjust arrangements of society and should be morally permitted to take advantage of the rights given to us in that unjust system in our personal lives (within limits). The idea being that the concept of property in our society has been so corrupted that it is impossible to live a libertarian life without extreme sacrifice, which is not your moral duty.

So ABC got a lousy grade in a first year class and he still got into S&C.

I got lousy grades too and it's toilet firms for me. Tier 2 strikes again.

I thought you were top 25%.

Well, let's face it, top 25% at tier 2 is pretty lousy.

WHAT WOULD MICHAEL SAVAGE SAY ABOUT CHARNEY? UNTIL HE TELLS ME WHAT TO THINK I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK

Nothing to Ditto...,

I am assuming you are joking.

Although there actually are whacked out right wingers who do think like that.

All these people who are "shocked" by the Moglen comment, try googling "moglen and dartmouth." This is all public record.

This new breed of Michael Savage promoting L2L is particularly unwelcome. I don't even get the connection.

As a fellow gay - I am appalled at Charney's conservative credentials.

Conservative = small mind and small heart - 1st generation money wannabees.

eeewwwhhhhh.

Loyola 2L,

We aren't going to put with your whining tonight.

Lat-- the comments as the top on HIV/AIDS are totally reprehensible and uncivil. You should take them down.

Lex,

I totally agree.

Can someone link to the Moglen Dartmouth Review article - I can't find it on Google.

The insight into ABC's background fills out the dilemna that must have been churning inside of him. As a conservative law student, he should disagree that such a plaintiff have such a cause of action. He probably believed that businesses should be free to make their own employment decisions and market forces can correct the rest (like his stance on min wage). As a top law student, he felt he earned his position and had a right, or entitlement, to that job. As a gay man he saw discrimination, and reached for every liberal tool (no pun intended) he could grasp in order to make a claim against the firm. I really wonder if he hates himself for what he has done, or if he is able to reconcile his conservative beliefs with his very liberal actions. And he still wants to join the club that doesn't want him as a member. Go figure.

Charney's situation with the bad grade is indicative of law schol bias today. The fact that there is no appeals process for grades is a travesty, especially regarding an inherent bias among certain professors.

I don't believe anyone should fault him for being upset about getting a grade because of his political opinions.

His lawsuit also appears to have some merit, whether he deserves the money he is seeking, is a different matter. A more just outcome (if the charges are accurate) would be for the firm to discipline the lawyers involved and pay Charney a much smaller amount.

The Dartmouth Review article on Moglen:
http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2005/04/08/intellectual_property_is_so_last_year.php

Now Moglen seems exceedingly interesting

Moglen is one cool ass Jew,

Excerpt from Wikipedia: Moglen believes the idea of proprietary software is as ludicrous as having "proprietary mathematics" or "proprietary geometry". This would convert the subjects from "something you can learn" into "something you must buy", he has argued. He points out that software is among the "things which can be copied infinitely over and over again, without any further costs".

Many Columbia students really loved Moglen's 1L class, and he's highly respected in the open source/programmer community.

What his CLS student detractors don't realize is that he's a polemicist, and his rhetoric is to be interpreted accordingly. Apparently, a lot of Columbia 1Ls lack the subtlty of intellect and imagination to understand that. And the whining about the lack of blind grading is really annoying -- the class is heavily graded on participation, which is perfectly defensible. If they'd happened to get a good grade in Moglen's class I'm sure they'd be singing a different tune about the way his grading allows the proper attention to individual effort.

Last thing -- yes, Moglen did date and become engaged to a student. It's funny how this completely above-the-board relationship between two adults evokes such vicious prudery in today's youth, especially since Columbia's former dean and several august professors were all married to former students or professors...

Moglen is indeed a genius. One has to see his capability to enter (and win) a debate with anybody on any topic or present a speech without papers to believe it.

He is not only a world-class orator he is the best I have ever seen in any languge I speak. His spontaneous words could be printed out right away on the cover of the NYT without any editing (not that NYT was so leftist).

Btw in Europe grading is almost never anonymous (though admittedly grades ae less important during job search), in fact oral exams are the norm in many places. Americans have no idea of the biass going on in European universities.

Moglen is indeed a genius. One has to see his capability to enter (and win) a debate with anybody on any topic or present a speech without papers to believe it.

He is not only a world-class orator he is the best I have ever seen in any languge I speak. His spontaneous words could be printed out right away on the cover of the NYT without any editing (not that NYT was so leftist).

Btw in Europe grading is almost never anonymous (though admittedly grades ae less important during job search), in fact oral exams are the norm in many places. Americans have no idea of the biass going on in European universities.

Moglen is indeed a genius. One has to see his capability to enter (and win) a debate with anybody on any topic or present a speech without papers to believe it.

He is not only a world-class orator he is the best I have ever seen in any languge I speak. His spontaneous words could be printed out right away on the cover of the NYT without any editing (not that NYT was so leftist).

Btw in Europe grading is almost never anonymous (though admittedly grades ae less important during job search), in fact oral exams are the norm in many places. Americans have no idea of the biass going on in European universities.

OK Moglen. Stop posting or at least... learn how to post

MICHAEL SAVAGE RULES - IT IS HIGH TIME TO CLOSE DOWN THE BORDERS FROM ILLEGALS AND PROTECT AMERICAN CULTURE

New Loyola2L,
I'm one of the original L2Ls. Please uphold the quality of our clan. The Michael Savage stuff is obnoxious and doesn't even make any sense. What connection does Michael Savage have to tier 2 unemployment?
Loyola 2L

No wonder I've been confused. Thought you were talking about DAN Savage.

I am the original Loyola 2L and if I want to be a tool of Michael Savage on this board that is my right bc I am an american.

I WOULD BE ABLE TO GET INTO A BETTER LAW SCHOOL IF THERE WERE LES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY - MICHAEL SAVAGE RULES!!!!!!

No you're not. You're a new L2L. This is just unacceptable. Michael Savage has nothing to do with unemployment, social stratification or tier 2.

Lat,

It looks like you've got a new idea for a post: let's hear the dirt on this Moglen guy! Anyone with interesting Moglen stories, send them into to Lat.

Let in the Mexican women, but not the men. I like Mexican women.

To the assholes who speculated that charney might have AIDS because he looks too thin, YOU ARE A BUNCH OG IGNORANT HOMOPHOBES!! I can just see you now sitting at your desks in your rumpled Brooks Brothers dullwear, paunch starting in the middle, bald spot getting bigger, afraid of what the partners will think if you had a freakin LIFE outside your firm...

I still think Charney looks hottest in this pic.

I wonder if he's lost even more weight (yikes!)?

I still think Charney looks hottest in this pic.

I wonder if he's lost even more weight (yikes!)?