Shame, Shame, Shame on you, David Lat.

Weeellll... it kind of did show her to be human.

I note that the Koz did not mention or refute the allegation that Judge Berzon is a conspicuous user of the "Recall" function in Outlook. If it is untrue, surely Kozinski knows.

Doesn't Judge Kozinski have better things to do than sit around all day and read legal blogs?

Damn! Talk about a bench slap!

Did CJ Roberts match?

Do you think Lat made her cry?

I didn't think Judge Berzon came off that poorly in the initial post - disorganized, sure, but I think inability to master Microsoft e-mail software is kind of charming, and who hasn't been the passenger from Hell on one flight or another?

Perhaps Judge Kozinski is worried about what stories might surface about him and what goes on in his chambers if stories like this gain credibility...

Read Judge Kozinski's book review. It's very good.

Judge Kozinski: Isn't the suggestion that someone "must have been smoking a controlled substance during working hours" a rather vicious "gratuitous personal attack"? A "pejorative"? A "half-witticism"?

(Actually, that's a bit generous. I'd mark yours down as a quarter-witticism at best.)

Judge Kozinski: Isn't the suggestion that someone "must have been smoking a controlled substance during working hours" a rather vicious "gratuitous personal attack"? A "pejorative"? A "half-witticism"?

(Actually, that's a bit generous. I'd mark yours down as a quarter-witticism at best.)

Uh, the point of this website isn't to be "enlightened or helped." It's to entertain. Or at least that's why I read it. And I would hardly construe the last posting as an attack on Judge Berzon's work product. Quite to the contrary. The story is interesting precisely because Judge Berzon does produce such high quality stuff (which the posting made clear).

Oh please. Where there's smoke there's fire. If that many people are saying Judge Berzon is unorganized, there must be some truth to it. As a parent I can kind of see where the kiddo details would be upsetting, but on the other hand if your kiddos act that wild in public you've got it coming. If the daughter has any ovaries, she & her friend will make their own comments here. To borrow from the incredibly clever David Lat, she should "own" this whole coffee kerfuffle.
So what's the deal w/ Mr. Berzon, or whatever his name is? There were some snarky comments yesterday about not wanting to sit next to him.

I enjoy reading Kozinski's opinions.

Lat: Can you ask Kozinski re what he thinks about Charney law suit against S&C?

12:49, I made one of the snarky comments yesterday - actually, he seemed like a nice guy, just talkative in the extreme, which I could see getting trying on a cross country flight.

By Kozinski standards, this isn't that big a benchslap. He writes dissents that are way more scathing than this. When he wants to rip you a new one, he rips you a new one.

I agree wholeheartedly with Judge Kozinski. Now, can I have a clerkship your honor?

This may be an urban legend. No liquids have been allowed on airplanes for six months now, and the post makes it seem like this is a recent event. Also, I heard a variation of a similar airplane story about the Berzons about ten years ago, so I fear that some malicious game of "telephone" might be going on. There may be someone out there who doesn't like the Berzons and doesn't have the guts to identify himself or herself. Rather than telling true stories, this person may be taking a tale that might have some toehold in fact and embellishing it for entertainment value.

1:03
You can take liquids on airplanes if those liquids are purchased inside the terminal after you go through security. They have many breakfast stands in airports that sell coffee which you can bring onto the plane.

Judge Kozinski,
Can you please hire a clerk from a T2 school? We have nothing. No jobs and little hope for the future. I feel like I was robbed of three years of my life and $150k of loan debt and $150k lost wages for a piece of paper which is worth virtually nothing in the legal world.
Please, for mercy's sake, spread the wealth a little.
Loyola 2L

1:03 - you don't fly much do you? you can't get liquids through security, but once you're in the boarding area, you can load up with as much coffee as you want.

You are allowed to bring liquids you have purchased past security onto planes, no problem. I'm sure this post bears a striking resemblance to the truth, which, amazingly, is that judges are normal people/moms/dads with possibly obnoxious kids. Oh my god, the humanity!

I think to the degree that The Easy Rider's letter provides an opposing view to the missive published yesterday, it is a welcome voice in the marketplace of ideas and evidence that this system of finding the truth works.

To the degree, however, that his letter argues against even posting such missives as the one yesterday, I think it borders on a call for supression of free speech, assuming that the missive yesterday wasn't completely false and malicious. But there's the catch - how do we even prove truth an malice without these alternately-opposed viewpoints?

Keep them coming David.

....NOW the story is interesting. Will the Michigan judiciary match?

I ask you -- how likely is it that any law clerk would say anything less than 100% flattering about their judge, let alone, to the judge's colleague. Not very.

Why is this letter coming from Judge Kozinski? That seems to reinforce paternalistic notions that a man must come to a woman's rescue.

If Judge Berzon is troubled by the post SHE should write an e-mail in HER OWN defense.

I love that he cites himself as authority. I'm sure he's thrilled that you published him!

Did he have all four of his clerks draft a version of this letter so he could choose the best?

kozinski is such a blowhard. he cites himself. and no pr skills - this would have totally been ignored if he had not written that pretentious letter. idiot

Loyola 2L,

I have seen you whine and complain here and elsewhere about your unfortunate lot in life. I went to a top-tier school and I work at a big firm in L.A. that pays top dollar. I have many colleagues who are Loyola grads. Maybe you should spend less time on message boards and more time on your schoolwork to land the kind of job you desire. Perhaps you should put your talents to use in the public sector. It might give you a little perspective on how fortunate you are to have had the opportunity your Loyola education provided-- an opportunity that not everyone gets. You might even get some relief from your loans.

As far as the rest of your law-school years are concerned, don't write them off. Try to learn something. Don't look at the experience as only valuable for the job it gets you. Use the time for personal development. There are a lot of people who wish they had the freedom to live a life where, for three years, all that's expected of them is to show up, be engaged and read interesting things. You could be digging ditches.

What is most astonishing about Kozinski is that his book review is 23,030 words. 63 pages if dumped directly into Word with default font, font size and margins. Re: 2:32, he does know something about PR. This review follows the cardinal rule: tell them what you are going to say, tell them, and tell them what you told them. The only problem is that he does this about 5 times.

Morons,

Judge Kozinski cites himself in his letter as support for the proposition: "You are aware, of course, of what I think about former law clerks who speak publicly about matters they learned of during their clerkships."

How could he cite someone else as authority for what HE thinks.

Geezus.

Idiots.

Is Judge Kozinski going to match Simpson Thacher's raise for his clerks?

4:36 - the point is, Kozinski goes to extra effort to make his post about himself. A way to defend someone else, while also promoting himself. Self-serving.

"Don't look at the experience as only valuable for the job it gets you. Use the time for personal development." 3 years and $300k of tuition and lost income for "personal development."

“There are a lot of people who wish they had the freedom to live a life where, for three years, all that's expected of them is to show up, be engaged and read interesting things.”

Anyone willing to go into $150k of debt and forego their life can have this "freedom.”

"You could be digging ditches." Thanks for making me feel better *rolls eyes.*

I was top 25% and I haven't even gotten a biglaw interview. My friends in T14 schools bitch about not getting Skadden. You guys bitch about harsh partners. Posting my experiences on message boards helps me deal with the realization that I've wasted three years of my life and loads of money on a worthless degree.

I wish David Lat would devote some of his posts do the plight of us unwanted toilet graduates. We're in the legal community too.

"4:36 - the point is, Kozinski goes to extra effort to make his post about himself. A way to defend someone else, while also promoting himself. Self-serving."

================

I find that the best way to convey what one ACTUALLY means is to say it in the first instance.

This is simply a weak, ex post attempt to justify lazy thinking.

It is more than obvious that Judge Kozinski cites himself as a nod to the light-hearted theme that is supposed to characterize Lat's blog. It softens the otherwise strong criticism in his open letter.

However, if being brilliant and widely published is self-serving, I guess Judge Kozinski can't hide from your lame criticism.

I know that Judge Kozinski is a prolific writer and commentator (his week in the life stuff on Slate was good), but he will also be chief judge of the Ninth Circuit soon. I wonder if he had that role in mind at all when he wrote this letter.

Or, as 2:10 noted, when he had each of his clerks draft their own version of the letter. And then when he made them do oral argument as why their version was best.

Loyola 2L,

Your degree is not worthless. From a career perspective, "biglaw" is not the be-all and end-all of the legal industry. There are many jobs available to you and closed off to the countless others who have no law degree. You might even find these jobs fulfilling. You might even help someone who really needs it. From a non-career perspective, if you weren't so singularly focused on parlaying your degree into a high-paying "biglaw" job, you might have taken advantage of the opportunity your legal education provides for personal growth. You keep saying that you've wasted three years when you haven't even finished your second year. You've already written off the next year of your life, and that is sad.

Your statement that anyone willing to go into debt and forego his or her life can have the freedom that I describe and that you dismiss betrays your lack of perspective. You are simply wrong to say that "anyone" can do this. The majority of Americans do not even have college degrees, a prerequisite for law school admittance. Many people cannot "forego their lives" because they have families, responsibilities, and financial commitments. You imply that you could have earned $50,000 a year if you hadn't gone to law school. Do you realize how many people will never earn anywhere close to that amount in a year? You seem to have no idea how lucky you are, and you seem to forget that you chose to put yourself into heavy debt by going to an expensive, private law school. You are not entitled to anything for your efforts but your degree.

And what is this claptrap about posting on message boards helping you deal with your disappointment? Quit moping and do something productive. You have a year-and-a-half to find a job, and it doesn't have to be in "biglaw."

COLG,

I don't know if comments like "you could be digging ditches" or "you imply that you could have earned $50,000 a year if you hadn't gone to law school" are serious or subtle jabs at T2 students.

People who waste their time on T2 degrees aren't high school dropouts with no other options. I understand my life is better than someone digging ditches but why are you comparing me to that demographic. Is that how low we are in your eyes? No wonder our resumes go right into the waste basket. And I don't have a single college friend in the job market making less than $50k.

Enjoy your biglaw jobs, your clerkships, your affluence, your wealth, the recruiting wine and dine and all of the other doors your degree opened for you. But don't begrudge my desire to cope with my bleak future by sharing my experiences.

As far as the next year. Law school gets quite easy and boring after your first three semesters. T14 graduates have visions of futures to keep them going during the final boring year. I have the disappointment I feel as I replay the decision to attend Loyola in my mind.

Loyola2L

To share just one of the miserable experiences we have to deal with. Some of our classes are taught by prestigious adjuncts. These are people with top degrees who are partners in biglaw firms.

The other a student tried to ask one of these adjuncts about job openings in his firm. Did the adjunct say something like "wow, you, a Loyola student is still looking? of course please give me your resume and I'll float it around?"

No. The adjunct literally smirked and gave answer which was the equivalent of laughing in the student's face. It was shocking.

This is life for a T2 student.

Loyala 2L:

Didn't you know all this before you started law school? I mean, I agree that it sucks that your job opportunities are relatively limited compared to graduates from top tier schools, but my friends who didn't get into top tier schools either chose to skip law school or were already planning on going into other sectors of law that didn't require a top tier degree.

Also, your abbreviations are confusing. Is a T14 graduate a "top 14" while a T2 student is a "tier 2"? Or something else entirely?

Anyway, good luck to you. If posting makes you feel better, then I guess go for it. You're kind of funny sometimes.

I admit I didn't even do enough research.

Actually . . . I just didn't believe the advice I was given. For example, I read a book called "Law School Confidential." I vividly recall this book saying that if you didn't get into a top school, and you wanted to practice nationally, you should defer a year and re-apply. How much clearer could he be? It was right there in black and white and I didn't listen.

Thanks for listening and offering a forum where I can share my experiences. I think I'm done complaining for the day. I felt better getting the story about the adjunct out. That was just shocking and I think it might have pushed me into openly complaining. I just don't know why he these people teach us if we're not good enough to work at these firms.

Good night and look out for us T2 grads. We need all the help we can get.

Sonnenschein Nath just raised -

I am pleased to announce that we are increasing our starting salaries to $145,000 in the Washington DC, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco offices, and to $160,000 in the New York office, with appropriate increases for more senior classes. This reflects both the enormously important contributions of our associates to the success of the firm and developments in the market in these cities. Salary increases for the first year associates and increases for more senior classes will be retroactive to January 1, 2007.

Due to payroll deadlines for implementing salary increases, we will be processing these increases in two stages. The February 15th payroll will reflect seniority increases based on our prior salary schedule in your offices. The February 28th payroll will reflect the additional increase at each level to take into account the increase in the starting salaries and changes in our markets.

Please note that starting salaries in our Phoenix, Kansas City and St. Louis offices were increased last summer. As always, we will continue to watch all of our markets in order to ensure that our compensation structure in all of the communities in which we have a presence is competitive both for the associates we are recruiting and for the extraordinarily talented associates we are fortunate to have already in the Firm.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your outstanding commitment to the Firm and our clients in 2006. With your help, we look forward to an exciting and successful year in 2007.

Loyola 2L and others:

I went to a tier 2 law school, and didn't make the best grades there. No journal, no dean's list. Just ... average. I was told by my career services people that I couldn't get a big law job and do what I wanted. But, I'm not one for rolling over. So I worked my butt off, sent out resumes and interview like hell, wasn't picky about which firm, or which market and now I have a great job, and make a a$$ton of money. I actually turned down 2 other vault top 50 jobs. The point is, BigLaw firms want people that are hungry, you need to be, it's not the easiest job in the world. So if you really want a job, use the personality in your postings and get yourself one.

T2 Grad

Judge Kozinski once trod, hard, on my foot at a Federalist Society Event. It was admittedly a crowded affair, but it still quite uncomfortable. The good judge's person is perhaps less "weighty" than his intellect, but it's not insubstantial. He did not apologize but rather offered only a fleeting, lukewarm smile, perhaps of apology.

Therefore, I really don't care what Judge K has to say about social niceties...

Loyola 2L,

If you are "low in my eyes," it is only because of your attitude. I work with people who went to the same school as you who are certainly smarter and more capable than me. It would be foolish to judge a person's intelligence or capability based solely on where he or she went to law school or college. In fact, I have a good friend who got into top-ten schools but chose Loyola because he received a full-tuition scholarship based on his good grades and high LSAT scores. I chose my undergraduate college for similar reasons, passing up more prestigious schools to which I was accepted, but which I could not afford. Different people have different motivations for the school choices they make. It is ignorant to assume that just because one goes to School B, he or she must not have had the credentials for School A. I am not better than you for having graduated from a higher-ranked law school, and you're not better than a high-school dropout for having completed your education. So, I am not taking jabs, serious, subtle or otherwise, at "T2 students." Johnnie Cochran went to Loyola, and I have a feeling he would school me in court even from the grave.

Rather than dismissing all of the people who don't have the opportunities you have as not in your "demographic," I'm trying to get you to see what a rare opportunity you hold in your hands. Don't resign yourself to boredom. Challenge yourself. Do you know everything there is to know? Read. Think. Engage with your professors. All of it will serve you well in your career as well as in your life. Some day, you will look back and regret the fact that you don't get to be in school anymore.

Your friends' experience may suggest otherwise, but I think you are mistaken to assume that $50,000 jobs are readily available for recent college grads. I have no numbers to back this up, just several years of experience in the business world and the tales of younger friends who've recently been in the job market.

I don't "begrudge your desire to cope." I begrudge the fact that spoiled people with no perspective and with dollar signs in their eyes were a real drag on my law-school experience. Some of us had to work very hard for the opportunities we've gotten and, cognizant of that, we don't take them for granted. I am the only person in my family to have had the educational opportunities I've been given, and I try to remember that "from those to whom much has been given, much is expected."

As for your miserable experience with the professor, if it really happened the way you described it, it is unacceptable. Report him to the dean. If there are other students who felt the same way, get them to join in your complaint. Posting it on a message board will do nothing to make the situation better.

Look, I don't know you, and I have no idea what else is on your resume besides your school. What I do know is that at my highly-ranked firm's L.A. office, alumni of my highly-ranked California law school are outnumbered by Loyola grads. Some of them had pedestrian grades in law school (or worse). Loyola doesn't seem to have been a deal-breaker for them, and it shouldn't be a deal-breaker for you. What might be deal-breaker, though, if you get your sought-after "biglaw" interview, is your transparency about what motivates you to want the job, and the stink of entitlement that emanates from you even via the Internet.

"It would be foolish to judge a person's intelligence or capability based solely on where he or she went to law school."

Whether you think it's foolish or not, it's how the law world works. You can't have a discussion about a topic unless you're realistic and honest. How many Loyola grads do you think Judge K has hired? I'm sitting here at top 25% and I haven't gotten one interview. That's reality. Here's another story for you. The other day 3Ls in one of my classes literally spent their entire lunch period discussing their job search failures. All had stories of friends getting them an interview and then the partner giving them a "dingterview" (when the partner asks you leading question which are clearly intended to explain to you why you will never work at his firm.) They're going to graduate with a debt noose around their neck and no job. Do you know what that must feel like? Did you listen to my story about the adjunct?

"What I do know is that at my highly-ranked firm's L.A. office, alumni of my highly-ranked California law school are outnumbered by Loyola grads." I have searched the attorney profiles of every CA biglaw firm and I think you're just being dishonest. Unless you "top ranked school" is really another T2ish school like Hastings, USD or Davis. If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me by providing your firm's name and law school, so we can do an attorney search by law school.

I don't want to argue about whether my college peers are making $50,000. They just are. They're making over $50,000. I have a friend who was recently promoted and now makes over $120,000 a year.

I'm glad you were the first one in your family to get an education. You made it. You said hi to many T2 students on your road from poverty to affluence - but they were walking the other way.

I may have made a horrible decision but I'm not going to be belittled by you. So save your preachy "let them eat cake" speech for someone else. If you want to help, open up the stack of resumes and give some T2 students a call.

Thanks to the T2 guy who worked his way to a biglaw job for his message. I actually still have a little hope and maybe I'll be in your shoes one day.

I love Kozinski in terms of his work product, but, with all due respect, what would he know about running an office? I've heard too many stories from friends who had to do make sandwiches for him, had to be on call at any hour of the day and would get reamed out if they wanted a weekend off, etc., etc. Working people into the ground isn't a great way to run an office. If Kozinski weren't so well-connected with the Supreme Court, he wouldn't be able to find any decent law school graduate willing to abase themselves enough to clerk for him.

Loyola 2L ...

To add, I didn't get my job until the end of my third year. And by that time I had three offers. I made the contacts, talked to the people, shook the hands. The fact is, there will be some firms that will just throw out your resume, maybe because of the school, maybe even because of the grades. But I know a guy at a top 10 firm that went to a 3rd tier school (no joke) and just wouldn't take no for an answer. Have an answer for every question, use your personality, it will do you wonders. Most places want good people, not just empty shirts, regardless of what they tell you. Additionally, you don't think that a big firm job is "owed" to you, so you're probably going to have a better attitude and be more willing to learn in the first place. Regardless of where you went to law school, all first years are basically useless. Everyone gets retrained once they get to a firm anyway. And i've never had a client, or most colleagues, ask where i went to law school anyway.

The fact is, if they don't want to buy your law school, or your GPA, or whatever, you have to sell yourself.

Hey! I'm overpaid, maybe, but not useless.

Loyola 2L, I dont know where Loyola is ranked, but I went to a school ranked in the 40s - so basically T2 - and had crappy grades. I was young, fresh out of college, hopelessly immature and didnt know anything about the legal job market. In short, I should have worked a few years before law school. So, anyways, I had a crappy job for a few years for local firms getting paid $hit. I researched the possibilities and decided to get a LL.M. For me, it has paid off handsomely. For others, maybe not so much. Point is, don't be a quitter. Other classmates of mine eventually landed great in-house jobs, or govt jobs then lateraled to great BigLaw jobs ....

I have to say: I have heard a lot of horror stories, from people I trust quite a bit, regarding life in the chambers of Judge K. In my opinion, the guy sounds like a pretty big jerk (among other things). Is that fair, since I have never actually met him? Probably not, but that's life.

Loyola 2L,

"Let them eat cake"? Do you even know what that means? That is the exact opposite of what I've been saying here. I am not Marie Antoinette dismissing the less fortunate; I'm trying to get you to appreciate the advantages that you have that those who would "eat cake" do not.

I am amused by the idea that you, a second-year law student, think you have some special insight into "how the law world works," especially as compared to actual practicing lawyers. Aside from the unlikelihood of that, you seem to have a very narrow understanding of the "law world." Positions at big firms and judicial clerkships represent a tiny sliver of the legal universe.

My school is ranked in the U.S. News Top 20 and my firm is in the Vault 100. I will narrow it down no further for obvious reasons, but I assure you that I am not being dishonest in anything I say here. Really, I'm trying to help you. You may feel like you made a horrible decision-- I don't think you did-- but there's no use complaining about it. You still have plenty of options and opportunities. Go grab them. You're not even going to graduate for another year-and-a-half, for goodness' sake.

As for waving hello to "T2" graduates as they went the other way, you just don't know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, you're so convinced that you do know whereof you speak, that you just may talk yourself right out of the opportunities that are available if you quit complaining. When I had a callback at my firm, I had interviews with five people. They were alumni of Boston College (ranked 27), Loyola (65), Santa Clara (t-87), Northeastern (t-87) and Southwestern (Tier 3). My school was ranked ahead of all of theirs, but they decided my fate. In my practice group, I have two colleagues from Loyola, and others from Pepperdine and Fordham. USC is the highest-ranked school represented among these colleagues.

So stop blaming Loyola, and stop being miserable about the crushing unfairness of not having a job a year-and-a-half before you even sit for the Bar Exam.

8:48

From what I have heard K can be very demanding, but also very rewarding (Supreme Court).

Apparently, he ranks clerks: gold, silver, etc.

Interesting. So you work in a V100 biglaw practice run by tier-3 graduates? If it's an NALP firm then I'm certain I sent you my resume. Maybe you weren't hiring summer people.

And maybe you’re right. Maybe I don’t appreciate the value of a Loyola degree. I could be digging ditches. There are biglaw practices like yours run by T3 grads. I might not have gotten a job had I entered the workforce after college. At the end of the day my school mates and I will still be unemployed, my college friends will be working on their promising careers, and my T-14 law school friends will be getting wined and dined by biglaw firms this summer.

Thank you again for your "so they don't have bread, let them eat cake" or (so you don't miss the connection again) your "so they don't have a 2L summer job, let them get a 3L job" speech, but if you (or anyone) really wants to help you would seriously consider the T2 resumes on your desk.

Loyola 2L,

You can never tell what the future holds. I went to what was, and probably still is, a tier two law school in a southern state. I was top 25% too, and on the managing board of my school's flagship law review. I graduated with zero offers. I spent a year and a half as a contract lawyer bemoaning my sorry self. Then I decided that I was not going to spend the rest of my life as a box-bitch, so I got an LL.M. in a marketable area. Again zero offers. So, I started to temp for a start-up. They liked me, and I parlayed the temp job into a full time in-house gig. I used that experience to get a better job in-house with a more established company, and then I jumped to one of the premiere federal agencies (think DOJ, SEC, FCC). I now literally work from 9-5:30 and make more than a first year big firm lawyer. (At least I was before the Simpson Thatcher bump.) Life is pretty good. The best part is that in the last year I have had at least four AmLaw 25 firms bending over backwards to recruit me. I felt a little weird turning down firms that a few years earlier I would have killed to work for. It was nice, though, when I told one of the firms no; it was a firm that had dinged me when I was a 2L. The moral of the story, which others have also tried to get across, is you never know where you will wind up. It might not be what you thought you wanted, but it might be pretty good nonetheless.

Loyola 2L- Your whining is certainly not going to get you an ostentatious, miserable Biglaw job. My wife and plenty of people I know go to tier-2 schools, many worse than Loyola Los Angeles. My BigLaw firm has Loyola LA people. My parents went to a tier 4 (!) law school and have done extremely for themselves! (i.e. I want the job my dad has and I'm graduating top 5 on law review). So, basically, you're an idiot, but it's not irrevocable. Just remember: you're not entitled to a damn thing in this country, and that's a beautiful thing. NONE of us commenting on this blog are entitled to be anything other than ditch-diggers. Actually, skilled labor like that pays pretty well, so let me modify that to McDonalds order-takers. YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED! Once you actually believe that, you'll appreciate life so much more (and people won't think you're a loser as much either).

just read the article on the S&C lawsuit. Did you notice the partner in trouble went to Western New England Law School? Is that even accredited? if so, probably tier-4, and he seemed to do ok until he started harassing homos ...

Loyola 2L,

My firm hired people from Loyola for next summer, just like we always do. Why wouldn't we? We have people at every level who went to Loyola. They are outstanding lawyers. We had a recent summer class that was 60% Loyola 2Ls. If your resume crossed my desk, it would receive the same consideration as one from a student at Stanford, Boalt, USC or UCLA (to name four higher-ranked California schools). What stands out about you besides the fact that you are in the top 25% of your class? Do you have any other experience that would indicate to me that you're a responsible, capable, mature, serious, intellectually curious adult with an ability to thrive in the setting of a legal workplace?

The fact that you think a "3L job" is cake, in the Marie Antoinette sense, demonstrates your distorted perspective.

I really am trying to help you. I speak from experience, and you argue with me. What will an interview with you be like when you get it? You need to learn to sound different notes than the one note you keep sounding here and elsewhere. I wish you luck.

BM. Thanks for the honest story. I'm glad things worked out for you. I'm actually not that down on contract work or doc review. As I understand it pays $35 an hour is pretty decent money.

NS. Since when did asking for an interview turn into feeling entitled to a good job? My only complaint is that as a top 25% student I expected one, just one, biglaw interview by now. Is that asking so much?

And yes I share in the blame. I'm the one who agreed to invest the time and money into this degree. I was even warned but didn't listen. But don't schools like Loyola, Seton Hall, Cardozo and other schools offering expensive but worthless law degrees deserve any blame?

Your parents’ days are long gone. The Dean of Loyola is a Loyola grad who clerked for the Supreme Court. My friend's mom is a very respected judge and she graduated from a tier 3. This all happened 30 years ago. Today, Loyola grads really have no chance in hell at a Supreme court clerkship (although Stevens gives us hope by hiring a T2 grad.)

As a top 5 law school grad who, whether you want to admit it or not, expects to land a Vault 5 offer or a highly prestigious clerkship - have a place in your heart for us T2 grads who only want a shot a good job. Don't look down on us, insult us or pity us. What does that accomplish? Help us. Start by telling your dad to seriously consider hiring a T2 grad next time you have dinner with him.

11:17. He also got an LLM from NYU. Yes he is my hero (except for the harassment part.)

Fair enough. I swear that I will never discard someone's resume just because they go to Loyola, and I know for a fact that my dad considers Loyola LA grads. In exchange, will you at least think for a moment about all those less fortunate --- and maybe just as smart, decent, or hardworking --- as you are, in this country or elsewhere. And, since you're still a 2L, here's my advice --- follow "BM" and go govt, even if during school. Go intern for the USAO, SEC, FCC, or something. Apply to EVERYTHING that looks promising. Right now, as you feel sorry for yourself, classmates of yours with less academic accumen are getting jobs over you because they have initiative. Why give up without a fight?

The story has to be false - the 9th Circuit uses Lotus, not Outlook.

Loyola 2L,

"[h]ave a place in your heart for us T2 grads who only want a shot a good job... Help us." It seems to me that you are attempting to solicit interview offers by your negative postings. Perhaps this is why your job-hunting efforts have gone awry. No one would want to hire a T1, let alone a T2, graduate who has an attitude like yours. You seem to feel that you are entitled to interviews simply because you are attending law school and are in the top 25% of your class (which you have so kindly noted, repeatedly). To the extent that you believe a Loyola degree is worthless, you should not tout your class rank because, as you pointed out, it is meaningless. I am a Loyola student and I have not had any trouble finding good legal experience. The greatest epiphany that I have had in law school is that initiative is far more determinative of opportunity than school rank. NS was right, you aren't entitled.

T3 (yeah, you read that right) law school, Biglaw firm.

It can be done. Stop whining. Cripes.

The letter isn't "uninterrupted" if you put a jump in the middle of it.

People. Loyola 2L is a TROLL. Definition: "one who posts controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames."

Loyola 2L is not moaning, whining, complaining, begrudging, blaming, bemoaning, etc. All of those characterizations presuppose that s/he actually means what s/he is saying (and frankly I doubt it's just one person).

Stop feeding the troll and it will go away. (And yes, I realize that Loyola 2L is going to respond to this post, but at least I'm feeding it dessicated melba toast instead of plump, juicy prime rib, so to speak. Jesus.)

3:04: I agree that trolls usually go away. But L2L has been with us for WEEKS now. He's like an STD that resists antibiotics.

I don't think 2L is merely a troll, I think he is sincere.
Having said that, I hope he (and others like him) listen to all the good advice that's here.
I graduated in the middle of my class from a 2nd tier school. There was slim pickings for awhile, but eventually all the perseverance paid off. Now I have an excellent job for a state government agency. It may be my career, or it may be a good foundation for another direction later on. But in any case, there's no excuse for whining about "woe is me, I'm at Loyola and can't find a job." Please spare us and grow up. There are good jobs out there if you look hard enough.

Nice work 7:17. What do you make at your state government job? Is it enough to pay off $180,000 of debt?

L2L, I work in local government and earn $115,000/annum. The hours are long and the politics can be awful at times but it pays off my loans.

Dear Judge Kozinski: Yes.

Dear L2L:

RE: "I was top 25% and I haven't even gotten a biglaw interview."

I cannot imagine why the partners in any firm would not want to surround themselves with bitter, disgruntled associates with a chip on their shoulder.

everything that was said about berzon is widely said amoung people who've gone through clerkships on CA9. kozinski has to know this.

or, maybe he actually doesn't??? of course, everyone knows what it's like to be a kozinski clerk, too.