This is an outrage. V&E lied to all of us last year when it said it would remain competitive. Jones Day is at $150K in Texas and has a large office here. No way $135K is market.

I am lateraling out ASAP. Can we rename "Big Texas" "Little Texas"?

yes. little texas it is. i'll write to wikipedia.

Dorsey has been bumped for awhile. It has been reported in Minnesota media, and has been confirmed by their upcoming summer class.

Can we get the gist of the V&E voicemail? A transcript of some sort? What a tacky way to start a Monday!

REED SMITH

So any chance that BB will still make a move or is all lost?

When should I start mass mailing Texas? Is now too early?

L2L, you are overqualified.

12:55 have you heard something about Reed Smith?

REED SMITH is cheap. Morale is low. What the heck are they waiting for in NYC?

Well, I don't think that they can allow themselves to be 25k behind everyone else, so I'd assume a move may be coming. Or at least I sincerely hope so!

Now that the list has shrunk considerably, Lat what thoughts do you have about these firms? How many associates do each of these firms have in NYC?

There may even be some humor in this. B&H for example has as its firm slogan "counsel to market leaders." That's an interesting slogan for a law firm that is flailing in the final 9 on the salary list. I guess the slogan only applies to their clients and not to the firm itself.

$160,000 in NYC is the equivalent of $68,630.27 in Houston ($160,000 in Houston is the equivalent of nearly $350,000 in NYC). BigTex associates in Texas need to stop complaining (the exception of course being the F&J associates in NYC who should complain a lot).

McGuireWoods? Hello? Anyone there? If you suckers are going to let Hunton pass you fine, but Troutman? So much for being a top-tier, high-end firm.

Thank you 1:49, I should have realized how great I had it making $90,000 per year less in base salary than my colleague across the street.

1:49- Your comment would hold some sway if so many of the carpet baggers in Texas hadn't already raised down here. It's one thing to be making $15-25K less than associates in NYC, it's another when they are working at NY and CA firms across the street.

It needs to be repeated throughout these threads that DLA Piper's "raise" or "market match" is entirely tied to billable hours. The policy (to the extent that it can be called a policy at all) was issued in 2007 and made retroactive to 2006. Many Associates didn't get the raise.

Anonymous at 2:34 PM -- But the vast vast majorityof DLA Piper associates did get the raise.

"NYC generally leads the charge on pay raises, and we can't write about every legal market under the sun"

Lat, this is a patently absurd statement. CA has initiated various salary wars for about a decade now. This is plain old East Coast bias for no good reason. Although it does line you up nicely with pseudo-publications like Vault.

Does anyone have payscale info on Jones Day Dallas beyond the first year?

Anonymous at 2:34 PM -- But the vast vast majorityof DLA Piper associates did get the raise.

JD Dallas, like all offices of the firms, keeps its pay scale info after the first year secret (and, supposedly, individualized). However, it seems very unlikely that it would have the same compression seen in big Tex

Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal has announced plans to open an office in Dallas. The carpetbaggers smell blood in the water.

Texans, stop whinning:

http://www.averyindex.com/2007_cost_of_living.php

Any word on Drinker or other Philly/Chicago firms that have not raised as of yet?

I propose that we all start using all of our vacation, refusing to cancel everytime a partner has some procrastination crisis, and bill the minimum number of hours necessary to stay employed. Let's see how BigTex likes it when they have to hire 20% more associates to get their work done because everyone is billing 1850 hours. If all the other offices and carpetbagger firms are going to get a 10-15% raise, I'm going to cut my hours by 10-15%.

Minn 2L,

Dorsey & Whitney announced that it will be matching salary increase in the Minneapolis market, but there has been no word on New York. Moreover, Dorsey's Minneapolis wage increase does not take effect until June, and it is not retroactive to the beginning of the year. Announcing a pay increase four months before it takes effect is pretty damn cheap, but that is par for Dorsey.

"Announcing a pay increase four months before it takes effect is pretty damn cheap, but that is par for Dorsey."

And yet it is less cheap than not raising at all!

Feverishly sends resume to carpetbagger firms...

Philadelphia is not going to raise. They many of the firms that were at $110k or $115 jumped to $125 in the last year, and there are only a handful (or less...) at $135,000 or $145,000. Last I knew, Dechert and Morgan were the only two at $135k.

However, Philly is dirt cheap.

Can someone from V&E post what was said about Texas salaries in the voicemail?

Baker Hostetler has like 11 associates in NYC at any given time, and probably none of them post here. So it's entirely possible they've matched for NYC and you just don't know.

There's also still no sign of what Thelen is doing past the first year associates...

Damn you, Squire Sanders!!! The partners' meeting is over. Announce already.

Not sure why Crowell & Morring isn't on the list. They are a Vault 100 firm, have 27 attorneys in New York and are way below market. They haven't made the jump yet and given that they've told their clients they won't up billing rates for 18 months, a raise isn't likely in the near future. This after the firm's most profitable year, with the AT&T deal driving equity PPP over $1 mil. Bonuses are non-existent as well.

What is up with Baker? For being the largest firm in the world, I never hear anything about it, and only know a couple people who work there. Are they just too big to raise across the board, or what? Is this a crappy place to work?

the atlanta market is in weird mode as H&W dropped 145k after everyone went to 130k.

most bizarre is Sutherland with their high PPP basically saying/doing nothing.

Do associates doing generally good work, and billing a reasonable amount, get 10-20k annual step-ups at Jones Day's major market offices? I know its all secret, blah blah blah, but does anyone have any personal experience/knowledge?

crowell & moring has apparently raised firm-wide to $145k. but are they going to raise their summer salary or trail behind market?

could Squire Sanders be leaving the Real List of Shame?

MICHAEL SAVAGE RULES

any movement at all in Pittsburgh?

No - Crowell & Moring has not raised to 145K - I work there and that is simply not true. See http://www.crowell.com/content/Careers/Attorneys/AssociateExperience/CompensationandBenefits/CompensationandBenefits.htm

Richie Cunningham, actually in philly a bunch of firms have already raised. mostly all firms are at 125K already - and morgan & dechert are at 145k now and blank rome, duane morris, dla piper, have all raised to 135k.

did Morgan & Lewis raise in Pittsburgh? How about Jones Day?

Pepper Hamilton is at 135,000 in Philly

7:31 - leaving or leading?

4:31 -- the basic gist of the voice mail was that the firm had to provide raises to certain class years in NY and DC to remain competitive in those markets, but that the firm has determined that it is already competitive with other Texas firms and no raises are necessary at this time. The firm will "continue" to monitor the Texas market to see if it changes, blah, blah, blah.

So basically they will follow someone else. Sounds like V&E has finally knows its place.

mike--fair enough. legal times, which i (apparently mistakenly) considered authoritative, said in the 2/19 issue that crowell (as well as the rest of their "DC 20" besides venable) had raised to 145k. thanks for the correction.

i should note that the website is not necessarily kept up to date--for example, it still says that summers earn $2400/wk.

9:28 PM

Crap! I am out of the loop.

Well anyways, Philly is behind. I'd like to see an analysis of what Philly pay at $125k and $145k is equivalent to in NYC and other big markets, considering how cheap rent and real estate is.

9:54 Jones Day is 135k in pgh, and Morgan Lewis is 145 in pgh. Morgan Lewis's office is very small though, so that may skew it a bit, but JD has about 60 attys in Pgh.

Where is Reed Smith? They should increase in NYC and DC but likely won't increase in any other market.

When did Pepper raise in Philly?

Any predictions as to who the final 3 list of shamers will be?

I hope they're 3 LA firms.

5:37
Baker & McKenzie operates on a different theory than most firms that are close in size. All offices operate almost completely independent. They matched the 145,000 last year in NYC so I'd imagine that they will match the $160,000 this year....just on their own time. They also have a different fiscal year than most and that may have something to do with their failure to act.

$125k in Philly is comparable to $209K in NYC according to money.com.

$145k, which is what Morgan Lewis and Dechert are at in Philly is comparable to $243k in NYC according to money.com.

$160k in NYC is comparable to a $95k salary in Philly.

So much for NYC truly "leading the marker." (I'm not saying Philly leads the market)

And yes, NYC is said to lead the "markeR" as well as the markeT.

All of those "$X in {insert flyover city} is equal to $Y in NYC" comparisons are bogus because they are entirely skewed by housing costs, which in turn are skewed because you have to compare apples to apples. Comparing the per sq ft cost of your 6000 sq ft cookie cutter McMansion with an "average" 1BR or 2BR Manhattan apartment is silly. And, those comparisons fail to take into account that most folks that live in Manhattan do not own cars. My monthly transportation costs are $76 for an unlimited subway pass. I challenge someone to post their gross, net after taxes (including 401(k), etc.), monthly housing and monthly transportation costs and see how accurate they compare to the conversion calculators.

Can anyone confirm the Pepper Hamilton raise?

Fo,

NYC is not the only city in America where many don't own cars and rely on public transportation.

Look no further than craigslist to see your apples to apples comparison still shows NYC is much more expensive.

As far as markets go, if I were a NYC associate and thought the city was "all that", I don't think I'd be making the argument that it isn't as expensive as people say. Because really what you'd be saying is that the demand to live there isn't as high, thus it really isn't as cool as you think...

Mintz matched over a month ago in NY. It was mentioned in Comments section, and seconded. Not sure why this hasn't been corrected here. The memo was forward protected.

Baker & Hostetler has 15 associates and they haven't raised.

Baker & Hostetler has 15 associates and they haven't raised.

"Announcing a pay increase four months before it takes effect is pretty damn cheap, but that is par for Dorsey."

"And yet it is less cheap than not raising at all!"

Well, they raised in Minneapolis. Whoop-de-doo. No sign of matching in NYC, their only big-market office.

Hahahaha... that's a lot anyways! List of shame... bah! In Puerto RIco, lawyers start at 36K! (And those are the ones in well paying law firms!)