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Tier 3 Law Students Are Hotter

Take heart, Loyola 2L. New York Law School, which is distinct from NYU Law School, is a Tier 3 school, according to U.S. News & World Reports (for whatever the rankings are worth).

But the law students we saw at today's conference at New York Law School were way cuter, on the whole, than our law school classmates.

(Please do not construe these comments as sexist. Our praise extends to the guys as well as the gals. One of the men looks like Aaron Charney!)

The proof is in the pictures:

New York Law School NYLS Above the Law.jpg

Two more photos appear after the jump.

New York Law School 3 NYLS Above the Law.JPG

New York Law School 2 NYLS Above the Law.jpg

New York Law School [U.S. News & World Report]

Comments
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1 Posted by T1 Hottie | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:20 PM

I can only say that your classmates must have been damn ugly, Lat.

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2 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:30 PM

New Haven is an ugly place. At least at Harvard Law they have the odd Miss American strolling around campus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Harold

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3 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:31 PM

Tier 2/3/4 power! Now if they can only find jobs.

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4 Posted by NYLS 05 | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:32 PM

As a NYLS alum I can attest that overall there was a great looking crowd at NYLS...but these pics don't do us enough justice. That being said, I work with many T1s (which are also cute but no smarter).

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5 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:33 PM

What? This is rediculous. seriously. Those people have been clobbered by the ugly stick.

Yes, the standards should definately be lowered in law school and law firms, but come on. We can do better than that. I really question your judgment Lat - you are WAY too lenient when it comes to "hotties"

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6 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:34 PM

I wish you would have taken 15 minutes to interview a few of them. I would have to loved to the names and stories behind the cuties.

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8 Posted by anon | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:36 PM

What do you mean 4:34? The blond on the top left is cute.

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9 Posted by Anon | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:37 PM

The blond in pic 2 is T1.

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10 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:37 PM

Dude in the top picture needs to talk to Sartorial Counsel about how to wear a sweater with a blazer.

Otherwise it's an attractive group.

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11 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:37 PM

Anyone else getting their comments screened?

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12 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:39 PM

Not me. That only happens if I insert internet links into the comment.

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13 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:39 PM

Lat - What's with the "Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner" message?

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14 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:41 PM

Phew, thought I'd been confused for one of the Dread Pirate Loyola 2Ls...

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15 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:42 PM

4:37 - Come on, you can't even see her! I'm sure she has a horse face like the rest.

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16 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:42 PM

If you want to insert a link type it as "www dot website dot com"

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17 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:43 PM

I like your idea Lat - very funny

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18 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:43 PM

Dead on 4:36...the blonde is definitely hot.

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19 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:43 PM

4:42 you're blind.

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20 Posted by Just Plain Shocked | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:47 PM

You're kidding me right? Columbia blows these folks out of the water. i am shocked I'm even saying this, but we are.

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22 Posted by Seriously? | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 4:49 PM

This is NOT an attractive group of people! These people would definitely fall within the bottom third of the list at my Tier 2.

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23 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:01 PM

people label others as "average" when they need to feel superior (usually because they are insecure). Nevertheless, I would rather be average and take a little time to get smart...than think I am superior bec I went to such and such school with one beauty queen.

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24 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:01 PM

FYI L2L: All five are T2 and all five are recipients of the 160K pay hike...

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25 Posted by NYLS student stole my phone | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:03 PM

I believe you have to demonstrate a drug addiction during the admissions process. NYLS is for rich drug addicts who can't get into real schools.

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26 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:03 PM

Only top 5% were allowed to attend this conference? *sigh* Us poor non top 5% tier 2 grads are shunned even by our own schools.

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27 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:04 PM

As a current 3L at NYLS, I must admit the girls are pretty good looking. They all love the leggings and mini-skirt look..

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28 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:05 PM

5:04 what % of NYLS grads get biglaw?

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29 Posted by rohita | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:06 PM

How did you manage to find all the white folks? NYLS has so many people of color (some of whom are even cute) - you must have really made an effort...

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30 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:09 PM

I looove sweater boy...

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31 Posted by Anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:23 PM

really rohita? I need to stroll my person of color self down there to see!! When is the next event?

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32 Posted by tex law | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:32 PM

Why is everyone dressed up?? Was it for the seminar or is that how people dress to go to school? If so that totally SUCKS, I went in crappy t-shirts, shorts and flip flops whenever possible.

I guess I had heard that NE school people tended to dress up, glad Texas schools missed that trend....

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33 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:33 PM

maybe its solely because we had the largest law school student population in the US, but there were quite a few hoties at Georgetown. I remember looking around Javits when i took the bar and thinking, damn where did all these ugly people come from?!

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34 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:48 PM

I think the girls are pretty good looking. And obviously smart enough to meet whatever admissions criteria NYU has. I'd date them even if the school is T3 (we're not all bad L2L).

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35 Posted by Anon90069 | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:48 PM

ewwww...UCLA had much better hotties.

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36 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 5:57 PM

What this board needs is a hottest lawyers with a 90069 zip code contest (inside 90069 joke.)

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37 Posted by alex! | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:03 PM

NYLS 1L CHRIS PETROZZO IS NOT MESSING

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38 Posted by sartorialist | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:03 PM

Can we pleeeeeeeeease get sweater boy a cashmere v-neck in a plain weave? That Shetland is really too casual to be worn underneath a jacket at an event like this.

I suggest makers such as Johnston's, Ballantyne, Avon Celli, Loro Piana, and Brunello Cucinelli. Barneys and Bergdorf Goodman private label also offer excellent style, quality and value.

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39 Posted by Anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:11 PM

I think they are all beautiful, their teeth like newly shorn ewes just up from the washing, all of which bear twins and not one among them is beareved.

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40 Posted by Anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:12 PM

I think they are beautiful, their teeth like newly shorn ewes just up from the washing, all of which bear twins and not one of them is bereaved.

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41 Posted by wgwag | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:14 PM

any white girls with asian guys?

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42 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:19 PM

Wasn't there a pornstar that went to George Washington Law School?

Also, I recall from a Playboy back in 2002-2003 a law student posed for the magazine, I assumed she was from one of the lower tiered schools in Chicago.

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43 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:30 PM

Puh-lease (4:48) - George Mason is Tier 1? This actually begs the question I have been wondering since Loyola 2L began marring this fine tabloid with his nauseating whimpering – what is the dividing line between Tiers 1 & 2? Are the first 50 of the UN&WR Top 100 law schools Tier 1? I assume Puh-lease would argue this as George Mason comes in at 37. That seems silly – There are certainly huge differences between attending Columbia (4) or Georgetown (14) or Fordham (32) . . . To say that George Mason and Columbia are both Tier 1 makes the term “Tier 1” meaningless. (No Disrespect to George Mason). I have thought “Tier 1” mean roughly the top 15 or so, or in the USN&WR link below through Georgetown. But this gradation groups too many schools into Tier 2 – and no doubt pisses off the very tip-top law school grads as well (that being Harvard-Yale Stanford & ___? ). It seems to me that there must be tiers within tiers (and if so then a 1-50; 51-100 might work) . . . Thoughts?

USN&WR link: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawrank_brief.php

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44 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:36 PM

6:30

Why would there be tiers within tiers? It's not like all the schools are lumped into just tiers; they are given actual rankings. So a school like Vanderbilt would be a mid-ranked top tier school, whereas Yale would be a top-ranked top tier school. George Mason would be a lower-ranked top tier school.

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45 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:40 PM

6:30,

I think the reality of it is there are not real tiers. Yes, some schools are better than others. If you cut the Tier 1/Tier 2 distinction at #15, then there are TONS of Tier 2 associates in biglaw. Which is true no matter whether you draw the line at #15 or #50 (until US News modified things Tier 1, by definition ended at #50). You can make distinctions within Tier 1 by saying something like a top 10 school or the like.

We need to get off the tiers. They don't really matter. L2L has us focused too much on Tiers. You can get a good job from most any school if you can convey why you add value to a firm.

I went to a school that wasn't in the top 15 (or your definition of tier 1). I know the school name doesn't sell as well as Columbia, but its good enough to get me some respect and I don't think the biglaw firm I work for cared that much. They were interested in other things.

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46 Posted by LatFan | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:50 PM

Seriously low standards, come on Lat.

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47 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 6:55 PM

George Mason is in the same tier as Loyola. Top 10% from our schools get rewarding jobs. The rest get a worthless degree.

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48 Posted by yellow fever | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 7:10 PM

Any Asian girls with white guys at the conference?

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49 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 7:27 PM

David, subtle Fordham trolling?

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50 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 7:41 PM

Okay, I come to this blog to read legal gossip, not a thinly disguised invitation for a bunch of socially retarded law students and lawyers to rip on normal looking people who happened to be attending a conference on a particular day. Bring back the judges and Starbucks stories!

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51 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 7:51 PM

I agree. These poor people just went to a conference. Think if that had been you when you were in law school. Some are attractive, yes. So they aren't super models. Most of you posting to this board are not either. You critics should send your pictures to Lat with a request that he post it so we can evaluate your looks, clothing, etc.

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52 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:01 PM

7:41. The blond girls are not normal looking. They're hot.

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53 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:04 PM

I like all 3 of the blonds in the first 2 pictures. They should send along their e-mail addresses.

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54 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:10 PM

A lot more than top 10% at Mason get good jobs. Most of the top law firms in DC recruit at Mason.

I like the blonde on the left, would enjoy working on a brief with her.

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55 Posted by Brunette Tier 2 | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:29 PM

Why does everyone like blonds? As if being a tier 2 wasn't bad enough.

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56 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:33 PM

That poor brunette in the 3rd picture. She just looks tired. She looks a lot better in the first picture. Nothing wrong with brunettes. The blonds just took better pictures in that case. Send us your pictures Tier 2.

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57 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:48 PM

@6:30: yes, by all means that's just what this website needs - more talk about meritocratical stratification based on what law school you went to or what kind of clerkship you did. Yes, it is a fact that where you go to school practically determines where you can get a job but do you really need to beat that around ad nauseum on this website. I finished in the middle of the pack of my school (U of C) and always felt like an idiot there compared to my peers. Now I'm a 6th year M&A associate and I have three juniors from Columbia and NYU who collectively aren't worth the one junior I have from Cardozo. Fuck Tier 1 (whatever it is), Fuck "the Elect" (when Lat calls it that I want to puke) and Fuck the elitist meritocracy.

(sorry, but it's Friday, I'm still at the office and pissed).

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58 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:54 PM

I think cuteness often correlates with the part of the country the school is in, not what Tier it is in.

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59 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 8:56 PM

"Now I'm a 6th year M&A associate and I have three juniors from Columbia and NYU who collectively aren't worth the one junior I have from Cardozo."

Clearly you take out your inadequacy complex on people who were smart enough to get into better schools than you. I feel bad for these poor juniors...

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60 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 9:07 PM

8:56 - Clearly you're a sham who coasts on your school's reputation, and you can't compete with hard working and smart Tier 2 students.

Biglaw hiring partners listen to 6:30 and Hire more Tier 2 grads. We can do the work of three top school grads.

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61 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 9:09 PM

L2L,

I agree for the average Tier 2 graduate no much weight should be put on their school.

As for you, your attitude sucks so I wouldn't want you on at the same firm as me.

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62 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 9:48 PM

@9:07 Clearly your self-esteem is based on your entitlement. I feel bad for ANYONE who has to work with you.

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63 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 9:49 PM

Yes, Loyola 2L, they should HIRE you because of the amazing way you CAPITALIZE all your verbs.

There's a reason you ARE FAILING at law school.

And stop trolling, troll.

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64 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 10:24 PM

that blonde with the glasses in the top photo makes me feel like i did when i heard chuck berry for the first time.

i wanna discuss the dormant commerce clause with her all night long.

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65 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 10:34 PM

Entitlement? How in the world do you see entitlement in my posts?!

Top school grads are the ones who coast on their school's reputation and feel entitled. Us Tier 2 students value the opportunity and are willing to work hard to show we deserve it.

Like 6:30 said, a Tier 2 student can do the work of 3 top school grads.

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66 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 10:39 PM

Oh, and you're not entitled to $160k either so stop whining. One tier 2 student could replace three of you. If only firms were smart enough to realize this.

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67 Posted by anon | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 11:05 PM

I think Loyola should be considered a tier 3 grad. maybe the rankers will get wind of Loyola 2L's posts and drop the rankings so that he will be lucky enough to scrape up a job as a paralegal.

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68 Posted by St. John's University | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 11:07 PM

Those people are from St. John's, a tier 2 school...

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69 Posted by guest | Permalink Friday, February 16, 2007 11:55 PM

Ugh. That's all I can say. Lat, how do you define "cute"?

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70 Posted by anon | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:27 AM

It's easy to put down other people's looks when you're anonymous.

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71 Posted by Anonymous | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:53 AM

Both blondes in the top photo are hotter than 88.56% of the law students I've seen. When you can pull a suit off the one on the top left... I mean, pull off a suit like the one on the top left... you know what I'm saying

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72 Posted by haha | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:59 AM

LOL 12:53!!!!

The blonde in the second photo has great legs. I wonder when all the shoe fetishists will come out of the woodwork!

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73 Posted by anon | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:00 AM

The blonde on the top left no doubt looks even better in person...she really fills out her suit nicely...great chest...

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74 Posted by anon | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:50 AM

David could fill a whole blog simply by going to legal events, taking pictures of good looking people and posting it here.

*runs off to patent new blog idea*

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75 Posted by Amanda | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:55 AM

To clarify, these people are NOT from NY Law School. They are from St. John's University. They are classmates of mine, and for those skeptics, we all have wonderful jobs!

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76 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:30 AM

Thanks, Amanda.

You were able to get a job from a school ranked lower than Loyola LA? I mean you weren't questioned at lenght about your school's ranking and forced to do questionable practices to get a job?

We've been trying to explan to L2L he can get a good job with his law school background.

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77 Posted by A TTT Grads Innate Sense of Self Loathing | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:48 AM

Amanda, HAHAHA wonderful jobs doing ID and paying some below market slave wage maybe.
All you poor LSAT flunking strivers on this thread are just trying to justify your now sorry lots in life.
Also, the blonde with the "great legs" has potentially the worst haircut in history. It looks more like a homeless person's unwashed mane than a hot girls golden locks.
Also, IS IT TRUE A PLAYBOY PLAYMATE USED TO POST HERE?????? Word on the street is...

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78 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:50 AM

Amanda is either lying or one of about 10 people from her school with a good job. Unless you call these good jobs.

http://nycinsurancelaw.googlepages.com/lawfirms

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79 Posted by anon.SJU | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:56 AM

Umm...just for the record I know every single person pictured above and each one has a big firm, $160K/year job. Only diff between them and you is that they don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt because St. John's gave them scholarships. So not only are they better looking than you, but they are smarter, too.

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80 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:59 AM

What % of St. Johns grads get big firm jobs? Maybe I should have gone to St. Johns.

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81 Posted by J | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 11:32 AM

haha Loyola, you probably should have gone to St John's - we have a great education, many of us have no debt whatsoever, or very little - and $160K jobs at the same firms as everyone from T10/T20 schools. All of the people in those pictures are incredibly intelligent, hard-working, and also nice. (In addition to being cute). What more could one ask for? :0)

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82 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 11:47 AM

You have to be lying. Only top 10% get good jobs out of Loyola. The % has to be like 5% from St. Johns.

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83 Posted by J | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 11:59 AM

Big firms in NY favor NY schools.

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84 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 12:21 PM

I actually don't want to work in NY. I got into a few 20th ranked east coast schools, but stupidly chose Loyola because I thought they placed well in LA.

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85 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:22 PM

Tell Egon I like his sweater

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86 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:33 PM

Lat, you're hurting YLS with this post. I've got more good looks in my left butt cheek than all these folks have combined.

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87 Posted by Fordham 2L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:49 PM

Fordham has some hotties....One of the chicks from Some survivor and a Miss World - Latina.

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88 Posted by Anonymous Associate | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:59 PM

If you're a student at a lower-tiered law school and worried about your job prospects, do what I did when I was at NYLS: Kick ass your first year and transfer to a higher ranked law school.

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89 Posted by Girl Scout | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:03 PM

If you think sweater boy looks cute in this shot, you should see him in a beret...

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90 Posted by Saint John | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:55 PM

Time to throw in the towel St. John's. First, this is so immature. Second, we just can't compete. Top tier law students are better looking than us. Here is a picture of some of Harvard's hottest. Get me some water.

http://www.nyulawglobal.org/events/eulawmootcourt/images/TeamHarvard.jpg

And a real hunk from Yale.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/david%20lat%20david%20b%20lat%20pioneer%20courthouse.JPG

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91 Posted by NYC T2 3L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:57 PM

as someone at the top of my class at a 2nd tier NYC school, i get all the opportunities of a columbia or NYU grad, but with a lot less debt. in fact, i'm at a better firm than 95% of those grads. that said, i worked my ass off and took a risk by staying here. i never went out 1st year and was a total loser, but b/c i didn't get into a great school, i knew that's what it took. i chose a regional NYC school over higher ranked schools elsewhere b/c i knew i wanted to work here.

loyola, i'm really sorry you didn't do as well as you would have liked. but neither i - as one of your peers at a firm far better than one at which you seem to be able to gain employment - nor your prospective employers want to hear your excuses about why your life isn't fair. put up or shut up. since your grades can't put up, i suggest shutting the hell up and getting back to work.

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92 Posted by RedStorm | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:08 PM

As one of the people actually pictured above, I want to let everyone know that Lat took our pictures under false pretenses. We specifically asked him if he was from NYLS and if he was taking our pictures for publicity purposes--and he said that he was. What a liar. I'm glad that the bloggers here are so honest and reliable.

I also find the discussion above particularly ironic in light of Prof. Rosa Brooks' comments at the symposium yesterday about decreased female participation in the blogosphere. Given that women in the blogosphere are pervasively degraded and objectified, and by allegedly well-educated law students and attorneys, is it no surprise that women choose to withdraw from these fora?

P.S. I am SO much hotter than Aaron Charney.

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93 Posted by Token Colored Guy | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:09 PM

What a hot group...they all could get it, especially sweater boy...

They should get together and re-enact the KY Jelly scene from "Old School"...

By the way, where are the colored people?

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94 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:13 PM

4:08 are you really sweater boy?

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95 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:22 PM

3:57 please shut up. You don't deserve your top 5% ranking any more than I deserve my top 25% ranking. Law school exam grading is a random process. They might as well have thrown our names into a bag and picked picked out the top 5%, 10% and so on. I've had my share of As and they were as random as the B- I got. In fact I studied far more for the B- paper.

At Loyola professors are not allowed to change your grade except for a clerical mistake. You could have a committee of legal scholars praise your exam paper and it would mean nothing.

It is precisely this randomness, combined with the fact that only 5-10% of us come out of these tier 2 schools with something valuable which makes them a scam.

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96 Posted by guest | Permalink Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:32 PM

I'm sorry you find the professors so rotten and random at your school. Prior to your comment, I had a very good impression of Loyola - that school is highly regarded. But I guess we all make mistakes! Thankfully, the professors and the grading system at my school is not so random.

Further: I'd like to add that its not only the people that go to big firms that make a ton of money. There are lawyers who don't work at big firms, and didn't graduate at the top of their class, that do Very Well for themselves - often making more than associates at big firms, and sometimes making more than partners. Perhaps if you'd stop complaining and use a little ingenuity, you could make more than all of your classmates at Latham and Cravath, or whereever it is you would have wanted to go.

And why insult the school where you are getting your degree? It only makes your school, and by implication you, look bad.

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97 Posted by Annoyed | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:49 AM

L2L, you're a douche. If going to a Tier 2 law school has made your life such a terrible bag of meaninglessness that you have to harass everyone else with your deluded depression, just do us all a favor and end it.

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98 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:53 AM

You wouldn't tell a tier 2 student to kill themself. Woe is me. Nobody loves us poor tier 2 students.

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99 Posted by Free Advice | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:48 AM

Loyola (Los Angeles) should sue Loyola 2L for slander. One douchebag's compulsive posts are doing almost as much to ruin the reputation of a fine law school as Lat's postings are doing to the reputations of S&C and Cutler!

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100 Posted by Free Advice | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:54 AM

Sorry, libel, not slander, it's been a while...

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101 Posted by NYC T2 3L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:20 AM

L2L, grades aren't _that_ random. Only people who don't do well make that complaint. Trust me, there are people at your school who consistently get really high grades.

Unfortunately for you, you're not one of them. Unfortunately for us, you seem to be able to type.

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102 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:28 AM

This is the real L2L.

First of all I didn't post the comments above.

Second, please don't call people "douche bags." Please learn manners.

Third, you're posting at 2AM about depression and killing yourself. Your words. You may want to see someone. Just saying. As for me, I'm not depressed at all. I just feel scammed and am angry at the tier 2/3/4 schools which rob naive kids of years of their life and money for a worthless degree.

Fourth, you can't sue someone for libel if they're telling the truth. I would love for Loyola to sue me. It would give me a chance to air the complaints of every scammed tier 2 student, and it would provide me employment of sorts. I won't have anything else to do with this degree when I graduate.

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103 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:36 AM

10:20 - Of course you wouldn't admit they're random. You landed top 5% in the raffle and got a great job. But talk to the guy who got top 15% and who got shut out for the summer.

To be honest, I don't how exams are graded at your school. We're graded on essay exams. On average you get one point or so for issue spotting. I admit issue spotting isn't random at all. You then get about 4 points for your analysis. The grading of your analysis is completely random. There is no "correct" analysis. It depends on the grader's perspective. What separates a 3 point analysis from a 4 point analysis? I sure as hell don't know and you don't either.

It would be interesting to have all essay exams blindly graded by a second professor. I think that would lead to wild disparities between the first professor's grade and the second professor's grade.

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104 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:45 AM

Never mind. I'm just an angry, bitter troll who refuses to acknowledge any correlation between merit and professional rewards.

Someone tried to explain to me once that, however arbitrary grading may be at the margins, it's often accurate in the aggregate. But then I told that person that being a victim is part of my identity and he'd better shut up.

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105 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:46 AM

OMG, New York Law School charges as much tuition ($38,600) as top Tier 1 schools. You might think that a Tier 3 school would be significantly cheaper than Harvard. Are their faculty making as much as Harvard faculty??

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106 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:26 PM

How much debt does the average NYLS law student have when the graduate? NYC living expenses aren't exactly cheap.

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107 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:30 PM

have to tell you, but as a new but frequent visitor to this site (drawn by the salary coverage of course), I appreciate L2L's input. At this point there are dozens of L2L's posting I guess, some funny, some nut, but the original premise is the same: law schools promise the moon, there are not enough good jobs to go around, and the difference in a A and a B can be fairly random. Its not a fair process.

But the key thing has been the responses to L2L by many who explain that the law school and your class rank only matter (mostly) with respect to your FIRST job after graduation. If you are smart or at least a good lawyer, notwithstanding your grades, then you will do well and have many options in your career - including laterallying into BigLaw. My grades were in the bottom half of my class (I was way too young and immature, scared to speak in class and was more interested in chasing girls and going to bars at that point in my life), but I grew up since, worked hard in crappy jobs for 3 years, and have now been in BigLaw for about 7 years and am making over $200K in a low COL market. Up for partner soon.

So again, I agree with L2L complaints, but have to point out that there is light at the end of the tunnell.

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108 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:34 PM

What sort of jobs did you start out at 12:30?

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109 Posted by Anonymous Associate | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:45 PM

Yes, tuition at NYLS is just as expensive as at a T1 school. But, I spent my first year at NYLS and had a generous scholarship. When I transferred to a T1 school, I lost that. So in the end there are differences when it comes to tuition.

And to put things into perspective, the first partner I interviewed with at my current firm told me that, if I had been planning to stay in NYC all along, then I could've stayed at NYLS and still gotten a big firm job.

That said, I do think that the T1 school provided an amount of intellectual stimulation that NYLS couldn't. If you're one of the few people who liked law school (i.e., me), that carries a lot of weight. Still, I wonder . . . .

Don't get me wrong. NYLS is a great school. Just about every professor I had my first year was excellent (I can't say the same thing about the T1 school that I transferred to). Bottom line, if you are at NYLS and getting good grades, you should be fine if you plan on staying in NYC.

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110 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:05 PM

A free market only works if there is enough accurate and public information to make realistic decisions. We L2Ls help provide that information.

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111 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:42 PM

Honestly, can we come up with some other name to represent the second (and third?!) tier besides "Loyola"? You people are making my degree less marketable each time you post.

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112 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:05 PM

L2L - You started it. You've done more to destroy the value of your degree than perhaps anyone else in the history of Loyola. Its amazing how powerful the internet has become. And is amazing how you have been so whiny and had a profound effect. When next years LSAT and GPA averages at Loyola are down as they fight to fill the classes and as their rating falls lower for that reason at about the time you graduate, I hope you take a long hard look in the mirror. Yet another lesson for you (I have a feeling you have a hard time absorbing material, which may explain your rank).

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113 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:52 PM

There is no regime here. You are free to express yourself. Please do so.

Just realize that as prior postings have indicated when you say all of the negative things you say about Loyola (like that the grading system is unfair) it casts more doubts on Loyola. Also, if you were a student coming out of college would you be more or less like to go to Loyola after you read your posts? I would guess less likely, which means the average student at Loyola may not look as statistically high as they would have without reading your posts. This may come back and whipsaw you by making your degree even less valuable.

This is no different in Biglaw. If you were to get into Biglaw (don't worry, you won't with your attitude) you'd be faced with things about the firm you like and things you don't like. Are you going to go on every blog you can find and talk negatively on your firm? Thereby lowering the reputation of your firm, making it harder to get recruits and clients, making your own future less prosperous. There are right ways and wrong ways to do things. You do almost everything wrong. Yet another reason you are not qualified for a biglaw job.

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114 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:56 PM

Can we get away from L2L and back to the hotties? You aren't a hottie are you, L2L?

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115 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:00 PM

If I ever get a worthwhile job with this degree, I will be so grateful that I would never even think of complaining - unlike some others on this board.

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116 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:36 PM

God L2L is the most annoying troll ever. You do realize that every BigLaw associate who reads this site is going to be suspicious whenever they read a Loyala student's resume or interview them.

Anyway, let's get back to discussing people's hotness...sweater boy and the blondes are cute.

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117 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:39 PM

I used to be hot, but I've put on 20 misery pounds the last year. I pig out on comfort food every time I envision my bleak $44k/year + $150 student loan debt future.

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118 Posted by guest | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:48 PM

Yes, the blondes are nice. Tell us more about them, St. John's classmates.

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119 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:50 PM

They're not *that* hot. The one on the top left maybe but definitely not the others.

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120 Posted by Eric C | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:59 PM

"As one of the people actually pictured above, I want to let everyone know that Lat took our pictures under false pretenses. We specifically asked him if he was from NYLS and if he was taking our pictures for publicity purposes--and he said that he was. What a liar."

If that's true, that's pretty disturbing.

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121 Posted by Loyola 2L | Permalink Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:25 PM

I blame "the system" for my woes and insist that I was "scammed." Perhaps I'm just being selected out. Hopefully the axe will fall quickly so I'll stfu and stop annoying the others on this board.

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122 Posted by guest | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 1:10 AM

seriously i just vomited in my mouth. not cute.

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123 Posted by Off Topic | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 1:52 PM

Just one word about grading randomness. I managed to pull an A in a first semester class at my top-5 school, which at the time I was convinced was due to blind luck. I mean, it was for a class I hadn't really studied for that much. But as I thought about it later, I realized that while I hadn't put as much "effort" into that class, it was only because I intuitively understood the subject moreso than some of my other classes.

The next fall, when I served as a TA for that same class, it was my job to grade a pass/fail midterm (make comments, suggestions, etc.). I was absolutely stunned at the range of responses. Now, true, it was pass/fail, and some kids surely were putting in less effort than others. But we're talking Type-As - I'm certain that people were trying at least a bit. And the fact was, some people just "got it" much more than others.

Maybe it's different elsewhere. But after being on the other side of the table, I'll tell you that grading's not nearly as "random" as it seemed before.

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124 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 2:00 PM

The point is "got it" is in the eye of the beholder on law school essay exams. See books like "Getting to Maybe."

And your top 5 school allows TAs to grade papers?!

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125 Posted by Off Topic | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 3:12 PM

"The point is "got it" is in the eye of the beholder on law school essay exams. See books like "Getting to Maybe.""

That's just blatantly wrong. Have you read any law school exams other than your own? I'm sorry - there were CLEAR distinctions between people's understandings of issues. People who either missed issues entirely or didn't understand them. People who didn't see the subtleties. People who just rambled on and on to show that they knew stuff (when that stuff was irrelevant).

And - as I stated above - it was pass/fail. Everyone passed (at least in my section), though there was someone close (and we couldn't fail anyone w/out Prof approval, and I don't think even then anyone was going to fail).

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126 Posted by anonymous | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 3:48 PM

In your opinion. Develop enough maturity to distinguish between objective and subjective before you opine on this topic.

Another newsflash for you. The people you think are most attractive may not be the same people others think are most attractive.

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127 Posted by Off Topic | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 8:04 PM

3:48 - my apologies if you didn't do well in law school and are still bitter about it. But there ARE distinctions between people's abilities to express themselves intellectually.

And - especially on exams where issue-spotting is important - people miss things. People analyze things incorrectly. It happens.

You want to argue there's not a big difference between a B and a B+? Sure.

But the A and the B? Clear as day.

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128 Posted by Justices Brennan & Marshall | Permalink Monday, February 19, 2007 9:00 PM

New York’s Civil Rights Law (available at this site: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS)

§ 50. Right of privacy. A person, firm or corporation that uses for
advertising purposes, or for the purposes of trade, the name, portrait
or picture of any living person without having first obtained the
written consent of such person, or if a minor of his or her parent or
guardian, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

§ 51. Action for injunction and for damages. Any person whose name,
portrait, picture or voice is used within this state for advertising
purposes or for the purposes of trade without the written consent first
obtained as above provided may maintain an equitable action in the
supreme court of this state against the person, firm or corporation so
using his name, portrait, picture or voice, to prevent and restrain the
use thereof; and may also sue and recover damages for any injuries
sustained by reason of such use and if the defendant shall have
knowingly used such person's name, portrait, picture or voice in such
manner as is forbidden or declared to be unlawful by section fi