So if the guy didn't "hit" her, then what did he do? He seems to be more concerned with exactly he didn't do, so then why doesn't someone volunteer what exactly took place?

The whole think seems suspicious. If you read the full Salon piece, you'll see she has a) a persecution complex or b) a penchant for truly awful people. (None of my friends would consider reading my e-mail or bad-mouthing me to a professor; or punching me in the nose!) Perhaps in this situation, like attracts like.

Mike,

Ah yes.. it's all her fault of course. Probably the same type of person who thinks that a woman deserves / should expect to get raped if she walks alone in a dark alleyway.

Anon2: While I'm a fan of the blog, I must suggest you read more serious material instead of ATL. Your critical thinking skills are entirely too poor.

Being raped is not even closely equivalent to being struck in the nose. Take a poll: "Get raped or get hit in the nose?" and see how those results turn out. I have met many people who deserve a punch in the nose, but never anyone who deserve to be raped. If you cannot understand this, then you need to log off immediately and head to the library.

I do wonder what was going on when she was "struck." The "victim" does seem to believe the world is out to get her. ("My friends bad-mouth me; they read my e-mails; they punch me in the nose.") So it could be that an innocent game went awry and she's now claiming the act was malicious. Who knows? I don't, and neither do you.

Also, who really has those sort of no-good friends? If someone read my e-mail without my consent and blabbed about it, I wouldn't "confront" the person: I'd end the friendship. That's pretty clear. No thinking person would continue the friendship.

So I can't entirely feel sorry for someone who seems to continually associate with trash. When you hang out at the trailer park, don't complain that the only thing on the menu is Natural Light and chicken-fried steak!

It's "Indiana University," not "University of Indiana."

It's amazing - it only took a couple of minutes for the f@cknut losers to get on here with their "boy this is really suspicious" and then launch into an attack on the victim and her "persecution complex". Unbelievably that such trolls even exist anymore. The guy PUNCHED HER IN THE FACE nd we've got lawyer trolls on here puncing on how she asked for it. this guy aught to be LOCKED UP FOR YEARS. I beg someone to get her to press charges. These self-entitled pricks have to be stopped.

p.s. I am a guy, went to a top 10 law schools, and knew an unfortunate number of this exact kind of prick. Oh, they exist, they are full of themselves and full of sh@t, and deserve to be caled to the mat for their bullsh@t.

oh and I love the guy that said "if this is true, why not just go to the police." this has got to be the mosy ignorant person on the face of the earth. Hmmm, ever think it might be difficult to do that? Ever wonder why 75% or more of rapes are never reported? Maybe that is is extraordinarily difficult for a victimized woman to advance charges? No, I guess not, Mr. If She Didn't Go to The Police Instantly She Made It All Up. What kind of freaking jackass moron are you???? It is not "strange" that police action has not been initiated. It is totally normal. Thats why most college campuses have "zero" rapes each year. Think that's true to you idiot? When will the rape culture end? This guy PUNCHED HER IN THE FACE REPEATEDLY. Stop your jusitifications, your excuses, your thinly veiled she asked for it crap. Someone aught to take this guy to task, big time. But luckily we have assh@oles like you who never met a female victim that didn't deserve it one way or another.

Gallion OUT!

Nice hysterics, Gallion. Why do you repeatedly try to connect this incident to rape???

And although you repeatedly assert that he PUNCHED HER IN THE FACE, actually, if you read both her posts and his posts, it's not at all clear that he actually "punched" her in the face. It's not clear what happened. There is some indication in one of her posts that he may have "rubbed" her nose (presumably very roughly) rather than actually striking it.

He doesn't seem to dispute that he broke her nose, but he does dispute that he hit her. She doesn't seem to make much of an argument on that point, suggesting that what matters is that he broke her nose, not how it happened.

But how it happened really does matter. Accidentally harming someone is rarely criminal. And if I accidentally broke a friend's nose, but was later accused of purposely punching them in the face, I might get rather pissy about it as well.

Your Honor, honestly, I was just rubbing her nose. It looked like she had an itch, and even though we were in the middle of a screaming argument and she was telling me to go the hell away, I wanted to help her out. So i gingerly reached out, uninvited, to rub that cute little nose of hers. And low and behold, I BROKE HER NOSE.

This is why almost every state now has laws that when a woman is myseriously injured and the guy says it was an accident, he MUST be taken to jail.

Accidents my ass. 8:46, when was the last time you knew a man who "ACCIDENTALLY" broke his girlfriend's nose? How about never you sorry excuse for a human being.

He rubbed her nose and broke the hell out of it by accident. Are you for real? You are frightening.

Gallion OUT

Gallion,

Your "top 10" law school called. They said they want your diploma back until you can tell the difference between horseplay gone awry and actual violence against women. They also said that ending posts with "Gallion OUT" makes you look like a massive douche.

Bob

A few points:

1. "Rubbing" or "punching:" it doesn't matter. This ass was obviously using excessive force, and I can't imagine what kind of "rubbing" would result in a nose being broken. Twice.

2. In the woman's blog, she says "he was testing a theory." This implies that he is a fucking psychopath.

3. Even if it was two friends wrestling or whatever, he should have then apologized profusely, taken her to the doctor, insisted on paying her medical bills, and generally kissed her ass until they graduate. Instead, he bragged about it on her blog and on his myspace.

4. There is good reason to compare this incident to rape, for a simple reason: both involve women who have been victimized. As often happens - very unfortunately - in the case of rape, the woman in this case feels a sense of shame and of having somehow brought this upon herself.

The fact that she hasn't brought charges has nothing to do with the validity of her case. You know what else has nothing to do with it? Any of her personal issues. Maybe she should press charges. Maybe she has behavioral patterns that attract assholes like that. But really, this does not justify violence against her.

Honestly, would you look at a woman who was beaten by her husband and say "hmmm, she didn't press charges, so it must not really have happened"? Or would you say, "well, if she married the guy, she must be really messed up and I guess it's her fault"?

To be clear, I'm not the one who first mentioned rubbing - the victim herself mentioned rubbing on her own blog. She wrote "You hit me, or rubbed me or whatever you want to call it." (see link below) Her comments suggest that what happened is difficult to describe and certainly not as simple as punching. Perhaps more than rubbing she actually meant pressing or squeezing? I don't know, because I haven't seen any detailed description of what happened.

So you're saying it's impossible that this was an accident, that friends never accidentally injure each other while goofing around? C'mon, get real. Visit an ER sometime and you'll find out how many people end up there because they were doing something stupid and/or horsing around with their friends, particularly when there was alcohol involved, as there was here.

I'm not saying it wasn't negligent or reckless, I'm just saying it may not have been criminal. There may not have been any intent to do harm, however stupid his actions were. Perhaps they were wrestling around and he had her in a headlock and her nose got crunched? Perhaps, being drunk at the time, he didn't realize how hard he was squeezing? Negligence? Yes. Recklessness? Perhaps. Criminal liability? Not in that example.

See her own post (and comments) that sidesteps HOW her nose got broken, and focuses simply on the fact that it was broken here:
http://dizzydoesit.blogspot.com/2007/03/ive-had-some-time-to-think.html (he comes off as an ass, but his main objection seems to be to her characterization of him "hitting" her and she doesn't really argue that point)

I'm also not saying the guy is a good guy, or that he was in the right, or that he shouldn't have apologized and felt guilty about it. But I am saying there is a big difference between something that's tortious and something that's criminal, and it's ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that he acted criminally without more knowledge of the facts.

Also, you seem to assume he was her boyfriend. He wasn't, from what they've wrriten about. He was just a friend who appears to have his own girlfriend. So, this doesn't appear to be a case of abusive battery in a romantic relationship.

And as for the idea that this incident - which may not have been intential - is worth comparing to rape because both involve women who have been victimized, I feel so very bad for you if you couldn't have even made a stronger case than that? Any time a woman is victimized, it can be compared to rape? Seriously??? If a woman is rear-ended by a drunk driver, that's comparable to rape? If a woman is a victim of some sort of con artist, it's comparable to rape? God help you and your terrible critical reasoning skills.

Gallion, I'll do you one better. I know a woman who accidentally broke her boyfriend's nose when they were playing around. They both do martial arts and were playfully sparring. No argument or hard feelings - just play-fighting. He dropped his guard just as she was swinging - a little too enthusiastically - with a big right hook. Crack! (It broke a little more easily than normal because it had been broken before.) See how context matters?

And I just love that you call me a "sorry excuse for a human being" knowing nothing about me other than the fact that I'm not willing to jump to conclusions. Good thing you don't have a tendency to rush to judgment or anything...

So, I'm just curious - whatever happened to presumption of innocence? It's good for murder cases, but not broken noses - is that it?

Also of note - the guy's girlfriend was the one who came up with whatever game they were playing that resulted in the broken nose:

"She's the one who invented the stupid game about hitting my face when I said not to because my nose would break."

http://dizzydoesit.blogspot.com/2007/03/near-constant-theme.html

Is it really so hard to believe that they could have been drunkenly playing some dumb game that a drunk girl came up with and it got out of hand and someone got a broken nose?

Dan, a few things:

- There is a crucial difference between making a comparison and saying that two things are the same. When you make a comparison, as I was doing, you are saying that two things have certain aspects which are similar. There are aspects of this case that are similar to rape - not that it is the same thing, but that tere are certain commonly-known aspects of rape that might be instructive in this case.

- I wan't assuming this was her boyfriend - where did you get that? I was simply engaging in a thought experiment involving domestic violence.

- As I said in my post, it may be that this involved two friends horsing around, but if it was, then the guy really should have shown a lot more remorse. The fact that he didn't makes me think it was a bit more sinister.

- Finally, is it really necessary to attack my "terrible critical reasoning skills"? We're just having a conversation. No need to get personal. I'm sure we're both intelligent people, but intelligent people can disagree. No need to feel sorry for me - I do just fine!

Apparently, there is some talk that HE PISTOL-WHIPPED HER IN THE FACE, over on her blog.

PS she's 32 years old.

Hbomb,

The girlfriend comments were directed more toward Gallion, who seemed to assume it was domestic abuse, although you did mention the abusive husband scenario, which suggested you also thought it was similar to this case.

Perhaps I should have not rudely attacked your critical thinking skills in general, but in this case your critical reasoning was terrible. Not only did you compare things that really weren't comparable, but you didn't even muster the best arguments for your position. The sole reason you give for comparing this incident to rape was that "both involve women who have been victimized." That's just an absurdly broad basis for comparison, as I already explained. Grandmothers that are victims of mail fraud could meet that description.

There are really very few similarities between this situaton and rape, and I think it's rather insulting to rape victims to imply that they are comparable. The similarities basically begin and end with there being a male actor, an injured female victim, and the possibility of intentional violence directed at the female (although the likelihood this was some sort of accident seems high). This basic set of facts can describe so many more scenarious, of which rape is only a small subset, that it seems very silly to compare it to rape, particular when rape is such a highly charged subject (as compared to, say, a mugging).

The victim herself wrote that the guy said he was sorry and explained that he didn't think it would break. We have no idea how he said it, how remorseful he was, etc. We just have her characterizations of things.

This is just speculation, but it seems likely to me that his later reactions were so negative because he's very upset that she's characterizing this as some sort of beating, rather than an accidental injury between drunken friends.

I think most people would be upset if they somehow accidentally injured a friend and that friend begain characterizing it as an intentional attack. Granted, they might not respond in the same over-the-top manner as he has, but we also don't know his side of things. He may have already received threats, etc., at the time he made his more aggresive sounding posts.

Meh,

The pistol whipped comments are not accurate, which is also discussed on her blog. She writes "To be clear: He didn't hit me with a gun. He joked later that he had hit me with a gun. " Evidently some sick joke on his part, although it's hard to unravel everything.

Ok, she's 32. What of it?

I am a student at the law school in question. I am/was friends with both parties and have witnessed/heard both sides. FYI, Dan is 100% dead on.

I am the letter writer. And go ahead and think whatever you want. But I just wanted to point out that the questions you argued about could be easily answered by reading the blog. Oh, and i'm not sure who the previous letter writer is. But I know who my friends are. And not one of them wrote that.

I am the letter writer. And go ahead and think whatever you want. But I just wanted to point out that the questions you argued about could be easily answered by reading the blog. Oh, and i'm not sure who the previous letter writer is. But I know who my friends are/were. And not one of them wrote that.

Dizzy,

I did read your blog. And as you'll see, I quote you above quite a bit, or refer to things you wrote in your blog.

But there is still nothing that explains, in any useful level of detail, what actually happened in the incident in question. All we really know is that your nose was broken via some debated means involving a guy. (And you have my sympathies for your injury - that can really hurt!)

What 'game' was he playing? What specifically caused your injury? What specifically did the guy do, before, at the time of, and after, the injury? Can you clear up the whole punching vs rubbing confusion? Thanks.

The questions you are asking were discussed in the comments on the blog. I know it's a lot to read through. It's ok if you don't want to. I am just saying the information is available.

I also don't really get the reference to the "previous letter writer." Maybe I missed something.

Dizzy, I read quite a few posts (and the comments) on your blog and I didn't see those questions answered. Which post should I look at?

Here's a report of what happened with more details from the comments/letters section of Salon, posted by "bystander" (who another poster alleges is Dizzy's best friend):

"LW" is a woman. She's a third year law student.

Stephen is a man. He is a second year law student.

When the incident occurred, LW thought Stephen was her friend, or at the very least a friendly acquaintance.

They were at a bar with other friends. They were drinking. Stephen's girlfriend thought LW was lying when she repeatedly told both of them "Don't touch my face, I was in a car accident a long time ago and as a result the bones in my face are fragile." Stephen he decided to test his girlfriend's theory.

Stephen put LW in a headlock and hit/tapped/whatever'ed LW's nose three times. It all happened very quickly.

LW woke up the next morning with a swollen nose that bled when she blew it.

It hurt. She cried.

She went to the doctor. Got X-rays. Her nose was broken in two places.

When informed of this fact, Stephen sent her a text message saying "Sorry, I didn't think it would break." Or something to that effect.

Then he decided to get mean with postings on her facebook page, and told her she was not allowed to tell people he hit her.

Apparently, when other students at the law school found out what happened to LW, they offered their condolences. Some blogged about it and said it was not ok what happened to her and that alcohol was the culprit. Others blogged that it wasn't alcohol, it was the actors involved who were responsible. Some felt very strongly that while what happened was unfortunate, it should not reflect badly on the school.

As for the reporting situation:

There are two deans. LW first reported the incident to the Dean of Students. Nothing happened.

She then wrote the Dean of the whole school, which was also the the same day that she wrote to Salon.

Apparently, the Dean of the Law School was supportive.

The drama seemed to have died down.

Then Salon published her letter.

Some Salon readers found her blog.

The drama seems to have resumed.

Graduation is in about a month.

"bystander" (who another poster alleges is Dizzy's best friend).

Just pointing out, "bystander" claimed that I am from Indiana and one of the "cool people." My blog repeatedly talks about the adjustment of moving to a new state for law school. And both the letter and the blog reference my "pariah" status.

Although I guess if I were really clever I could have had my best friend write that AND include mistakes so there would be deniability. But that seems a little excessive when everything listed above was already in the comments to the blog.

Thanks.

she asked/told him and his girlfriend no. he/they proceeded anyway.

it seems clear to me.

seems pretty clear to me too.

on a tangential note, i wish our institutions of higher learning would grow backbones. i understand that this stuff happens more often than we wish it would, and could happen anywhere, but i'm getting very tired of hearing: 1) they were drunk, and 2) the school needed time to figure out the PC response. and i feel like #1 just serves to help excuse #2 a lot of the time.

about #1, law students are going to be attorneys. and they're going to drink as attorneys. will inappropriate behavior be excused at a law firm event because the person was drunk? i don't think so. law students' behavior should never be excused on the basis that they were intoxicated, but i see it happen way too often just at my school (where the school provides much of the alcohol at the parties).

about #2, i know that schools have a difficult time figuring out how to respond to these situations without opening themselves up to liability. well, they need to learn how to do it faster and better. a simple statement from the school can send an awesome message. i was reading about the Delta Zeta sorority evictions at DePauw University, and the school's response made me cheer.
schools don't have to come out firmly on one person's side, but secrecy, delay, and spinelessness aren't exactly the best tactics.

OK folks, I am a student at IU Law and I know what REALLY happened.

The girl in question was in the process of giving the guy a furious blowjob. He was mouthfucking her like crazy, making her gag and choke and eliciting quacking sounds. Of course, she was loving every second of it like the drunken whore she was.

The guy, being well versed in pornos, decided to pull out of her mouth and cock-slap her a bit. Unfortunately for her, he was quite well-endowed, and while smacking her face with his cock, he also hit her nose with it a few times. After he blew his nut all over her visage, she felt a mild soreness. She later woke up to discover her nose was broken, broken by the spirited cock-slapping that had ensued the night before.

I am a 3rd year law student at IU, and the first I even heard about this drama was today, on this blog.

you people are the biggest bunch of pansies I've ever seen.

Was the guy being a dick when he broke her nose? Yes. Was he a dick when he posted about it on Facebook? Yes. So what? Why does this need to involve the Dean of Students and the law school Dean?

You're not going to get any prosecutor to look at this case twice. The tort liability seems fairly clear, but the damages are likely minimal. Can we please stop whining and move on with our lives?

I thought it was a matter for the school because:

- I have no choice but to attend classes with this guy and otherwise interact. I can't just stay home. I can't beat him up or otherwise protect myself from him. And I don't like having to sit in front of him for an hour three times a week.

- When he graduates, he will become a representative of our school and a member of the legal community. I am not a guardian of the reputation of either group (I DON'T want to be a lawyer). But the school is. So they should be able to have some input.

Don't you love how Dizzy claims comments on her blog are "fact" and completely refuses to answer the questions about what (exactly) happened, but when someone on THIS blog says that he was/is friends with both and that Dan is 100% correct, THEN she says that you can't trust what you read on the internet.

I didn't say what I wrote was "fact." I pointed people to the comments specifically because OTHER people wrote much of them. And because much of what I wrote in them was in response to questions. So it wasn't a version that I put out there on purpose.

And I certainly never said, "Don't believe what you read on the internet." I just said that either my "best friend" didn't know what state I'm from, or I had my best friend write in and include mistakes and a MAJOR misquote (the "game" was "Hit her in the nose because she doesn't like it." It wasn't some OTHER kind of game that happened to involve nose touching).

I didn't answer questions because

1) I was waiting for the school's disciplinary procedures. And making a police report. I didn't want to start talking about the matter all over the place.

2) Why would you believe what I said AFTER it hit ATL? The comments were what I said BEFORE many people knew about it.

PS - The one question that wasn't answered on the blog is how, exactly, he hit me. And since the school is done and the police are done, I guess I can tell you, for what it's worth. He curled his fingers into his palm and used the heel of his hand. It's what they show you to do in self-defense training.

"I didn't want to start talking about the matter all over the place."

Of all the bullshit to come from Dizzy so far, this one just might be the topper.

I love my blog. And I have the right to post on it. But I didn't bring the nose punching thing up on it in the first place. Someone else did.

Then I took the discussion OFF the blog as soon as I reported it to the dean. And I didn't put it back on even when I was very upset with being ignored.

Then, when I was asked what happened in 193 letters to Salon, and more than 80 comments in my blog, I left only the pre-Salon comments up and never talked about it other than to say, "Read it for yourself."

So I don't see what your point is, other than to say something mean.

"of all the bullshit to come from Dizzy so far, this one just might be the topper."

Agreed.

But what did you expect her to say-- that she shouldn't have originally called it punching? That she didn't want to be more specific and explain to people that it was sort of 'a rub with the heel of the hand'? That would completely diminish her complaint.

Anyway. According to her blog, neither the school nor the police see the crime that she is spinning this out to be. Sounds like they think he's a good kid who accidentally broke her nose.

Good kid who "rubbed" my nose with a karate move and broke it in two places? Honestly, the one part of all the commenting I do find fascinating is how bad the anonymous commenter(s) make this place look.

Honestly though, I'm pretty sure the unable-to-read-or-think Anons are a minority. (Hope so anyway).

Oh, wait. I just realized who at least one of the "Anonymous" posters is, from cross-referencing over at my blog. Sheesh. Defending your boyfriend is understandable, I guess. Knock yourself out.