Skaddenfreude: And Then There Were Eight
You know how losing the last five pounds is always the hardest? The same could be said for the last few firms on the LIST OF SHAME. Don't count on these firms melting away anytime soon.
We still haven't seen a Mintz Levin memo. But we're taking them off the list, since (1) numerous commenters have insisted they've matched the market raises, and (2) nobody has disputed this.
So here's the latest, official LIST OF SHAME (ranked by Vault 100 placement; AmLaw 100 placement indicated parenthetically):
43. Baker & McKenzie (3)
50. Fulbright & Jaworski (36)
77. Bryan Cave (56)
82. Reed Smith (33)
83. Dorsey & Whitney (68)
86. McGuireWoods (65)
90. Baker & Hostetler (73)
100. Seyfarth Shaw (66)
Fridays are big days for announcements. Perhaps some news will break later today?
If you see any errors in this list, please email us (with supporting documentation, if any). Thanks.
(28) Comments
DLA Piper patent litigators will be payed $160,000 scale across the nation, meaning that other California associates start will be left in the dust at $145,000.
DLA's J. Terence (Terry) O'Malley, co-managing partner for the United States, said he doesn't expect any backlash from the hundreds of non-patent associates his firm employs in California. "I think most associates are pretty sophisticated about the market, and they understand that what you do and where you do it affects compensation," he said.
That's easy to say when your making boat loads of money as U.S. co-managing partner for a 3,200-lawyer firm.
I'm pretty sure I'd be unhappy if someone down the hall working the same hours at the same level was making 15K more. Was college being fun worth losing 15K a year down the road?
Don't know about the other offices, but Seyfarth's home base will have focus groups next week to talk about compensation issues. Great that we are spending (wasting) money to talk about compensation issues.
Focus groups? Are they kidding?
If anyone in a one of those focus groups suggests that the firm shouldn't raise salaries, they should be stoned by fellow associates.
As a 4th year litigator at a mid-size firm (between 10-20 attys) in NYC that does not do ID work, I find this whole BigLaw salary issue a fascinating indictment of the system of legal salaries.
It strikes me as somewhat backward that BigLaw will pay $200,000+ for an associate that (1) barely knows where the courthouse is located, (2) has probably never stepped foot in it, (3) is entirely disposable and easily replaceable, and (4) nothing more than a cog in the wheel. At the same time, a mid-size firm, which relies on its associates for everything that BigLaw associates do, plus the drafting of motions, appearances in Court on conferences and motions, deposition coverage, etc., pays less. In a more rationale world, the associates who do more and are more valuable to the existence of the firm would command the top dollars.
Now I certainly understand that there is a perceived lifestyle difference and a multitude of other factors that must be accounted for, but I'm not sure the magnitude of the disparity in the salaries is warranted by the difference.
To give a frame of reference, I am on pace this year to bill over 2000 hours though I am only required to bill 1800. In February I worked all but 3 days -- sounds like I'm approaching BigLaw time at a mid-size salary. Jealous, you might say. Only partially, as I am certain the experience I am getting is worth more than the $$$ I'm not.
Nevertheless, the BigLaw "salary race", from an outsiders perspective, to be very interesting. Any one else have any thoughts?
12:06...
You got that right. What could possible come out of these focus groups? That Seyfarth's associates want more money!?!?!?!?!?!?!? How shocking!!!
The whole notion that everyone in the same class should be paid in lockstep in completely ridicuous. We should be paid what we are worth, and obviously we are not all worth the same. Don't like it? Leave or your switch practice area. Just stop complaining like government bureaucrats expecting a raise every year just for managing to stay alive.
General practioners in medicine are not paid the same as neurosurgeons even in the same physician group or hospital. Why should lawyers in every practice group be paid the same?
General practioners in medicine are not paid the same as neurosurgeons even in the same physician group or hospital. Why should lawyers in every practice group be paid the same?
Exactly, Tax attorneys need a little extra
Noble Eight,
Don't listen to these top tier grads! Thre's an army of hard working, smart, loyal tier 2 graduats ready to take their place! We can do the work of three top school graduates.
Loyola 2L
"We can do the work of three top school graduates."
With 1/6 the quality, I suppose.
Amused by it all -
The legal community consists of more than just litigators, so the fact that some of the associates earning $200,000+ salaries haven't stepped foot in a court house is neither here nor there.
Sounds to me like you are just bitter because your mid-size firm is using you for 2,000+ hours and not compensating you like the rest of the market would.
2:15 -
1. Very true. The legal world is more than just litigators, so not all BigLaw attys need to set foot in a court room. But as they are paid based on class year, rather than substantive work area (with limited exceptions - i.e., patent, etc.), they get lumped together. And it still doesn't change that they are just cogs in a wheel who can be replaced at the drop of a hat.
2. I admitted that I was partially jealous of the $$$, so no real revelation there. I stand by, though, the fact that my experience makes taking less money more worthwhile.
3. You apparently missed the point of the post. It wasn't to rant about the fact that I don't feel I am getting compensated as I deserve (my salary is sufficient to pay my loans and my mortgage, to take my wife out for dinner and to buy a six pack when I want a beer). I was interested in whether you or anyone else tasted the irony of the legal community salary structure where attys who are, in a sense, less valuable are paid more than those who are invaluable.
http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/resources/publications/washington_lawyer/march_2007/president.cfm
http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/resources/publications/washington_lawyer/march_2007/president.cfm
http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/resources/publications/washington_lawyer/march_2007/president.cfm
http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/resources/publications/washington_lawyer/march_2007/president.cfm
Amused By It All,
Perhaps the BigLaw associates are getting paid more because they know the difference between "rational" and "rationale," and between "though" and "although," realize that having 10-20 attorneys does not qualify as a "mid-size" firm in NYC, and also know to keep the comma inside the quotation mark.
My favorite part of the DC Bar article:
"Remember why you went to law school: to make a difference."
Oh ... THAT'S why I went to law school. I must have forgotten. THAT must have been why I went BigLaw too: I can't stand to see the plight of millionaire executives and shareholders. I just knew that I had to do SOMETHING.
My antennae go up whenever someone tells me that, for my own good, I don't want a greater share of the pie.
BigLaw Associate,
It was a typo and this is a blog, not a legal brief. Do you even realize how obnoxious what you wrote was? You sound like a bit of a snob. Get over yourself.
EMA,
BigLaw Associates also know the difference between a "typo" and "ignorance." Look it up in a dictionary. Don't become too blinded by the sour grape juice squirting in your eyes....
BRYAN CAVE COME ON ALREADY!
It's pretty clear that Dorsey and Mcguire can't play with the big boys in NY
Any predictions as to who the final three members of the "List of Shame" are going to be?
BigLaw, are all BigLaw firm associates so incredibly pithy? I am so lucky to have the opportunity to slave away for someone like you when I graduate. Do I have to take a course in order to learn how to get my head so far up my own a$$ that I need a flashlight 24 hours a day like you?
As a disinterested 3rd party, EMA is right you are pretty obnoxious.
No one deserves this much money. To think that spending a year studying for the LSAT will eventually entitle you to this amount of money is ridiculous.
That said, I am glad I have a job offer for this much.
$weet.
Who don't deserve their salaries are i-bankers and Biglaw partners. Biglaw associates, on the other hand, are still very much underpaid.
Can you start a DC wall of shame?