F Williams and Converse, what's up with Jenner? Are they going under?

Until recently, W&C refused to pay clerkship bonuses at all, except for members of the Elect (S. Ct. clerks)... don't know for sure when that policy changed. I think ATL is right that they still pay below-market clerkship bonuses, and no annual bonuses at all.

My co-clerk will be heading to W&C in the fall and I'm 95% the clerkship bonus remains at $25K and does not distinguish among circuit/district or one-year/two-year.

W&C doesn't pay an annual bonus because they pay a higher base salary to compensate (at least by DC standards). And the clerkship bonus remains, at this point, at $25k. I agree that they probably won't raise the clerkship bonus (given their past), but I would think they would have to raise base salaries (also given their past).

As for 4:06, get your own thread (and get your head out of your ass).

Shiver me timbers!

Lawyer of the Day: Andrew Speaker. Get on it, Lat.

No bonuses and incredible hours. Sounds like fun. (Since when does a 250 person general practice firm qualify as a boutique?)

I agree with 4:06. Do a whats up with J & B

Shiver me timbers!

4:13, are you joking? Andrew Speaker was named ATL "Lawyer of the Day" three hours ago:

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/lawyer_of_the_day_andrew_speak.php

Screw those other pansy firms- WTF with Bingham?

Is it true W&C is opening an Isle of Wight office to compete with Hunton?

Screw those other pansy firms- WTF with Bingham?

"Curious in DC"-
What's up with J&B is that they have lost their focus on doing good work and instead boast of their AMLAW ranking for #1 "diversity" firm

Ohhhh.... JenNER. hahahha now I get it! You guys are crazy!

W&C is probably making a strong push toward the Portsmouth market. But that market is so saturated with top legal talent that it may be hard for them to drum up business.

Number 1 in teamocil.

4:23:

Does the saturation of which you speak include the bottomless pool of unemployed Regent grads? I'll never compete!

The question really is: How can W&C maintain its reputation as the best litigation shop in DC if it doesn't pay its associates the going-rate? Its one thing not to be a market leader, or not to be the firm to increase first. Its another altogether to fall behind and yet expect to maintain your reputation as the firm that other firms go to when they are in trouble.

Here's a rumor: Monica Goodling is starting up the new W&C office in Isle of Wight.

No Seriously, Bingham. #16 on the A-list, and can't make a quick decision to match the top firms? The A-list must be total bullshit.

After two complete years with the firm, Jenner gives its associates a free Cornballer.

No Seriously, Bingham. #16 on the A-list, and can't make a quick decision to match the top firms? The A-list must be total bullshit. Lat, email Bingham's chairman and find out WTF is going on.

Until recently, W&C refused to pay clerkship bonuses at all, except for members of the Elect (S. Ct. clerks)... don't know for sure when that policy changed. I think ATL is right that they still pay below-market clerkship bonuses, and no annual bonuses at all.

No Seriously, Bingham. #16 on the A-list, and can't make a quick decision to match the top firms? The A-list must be total bullshit. Lat, email Bingham's chairman and find out WTF is going on.

NY to 190 and a CORNBALLER!!!

Can I has a cornballer plz? Tks!!1!

What the fuck is a Cornballer?

Joint Boston/DC/CA List of Shame

1. Bingham

Can I has cornballer plz? Tks!!1!

A cornballer is kind of like a boomwhacker, but with ridges for her pleasure.

You're a corballer. Think about it.

Joint Boston/DC/CA List of Shame

1. Bingham

What the fuck is a Paul?

WGWAG

W&C = Brainwashed. We work far more hours for lower compensation (do the math, foks, the higher base salary does not make up for no bonus) because our work is just that damn interesting!? Have another cup of the Kool-Aid.

CLERKSHIP BONUSES (as of 5/31/07):

The $50k List (* denotes $50k/$70k):
2. Cravath*
3. SullCrom*
4. Skadden*
5. Davis Polk
6. STB
7. Cleary
9. Weil*
12. Paul Weiss*
13. Debevoise
21. White & Case
25. Ropes & Gray (NY only)*
54. LeBoeuf*
55. Cahill
NR. Patterson Belknap

The "List of Shame":
1. Wachtell ($0)
8. Latham ($35k)
10. Kirkland ($35k)
11. Covington ($35k)
14. Wilmer ($35k)
15. Shearman ($15k)
16. Sidely ($35k)
17. Williams & Connolly ($25k)
18. Gibson ($35k)
19. Arnold ($15k)
20. OMM ($35k)
22. Jones Day (?)
23. MoFo (?)
24. Hogan (?)
25. Ropes & Gray ($35K outside NY but $70K for 2yr clerkship)

Please ignore me.

WC associates = stepford wives and husbands

Silence for the most part this week for the Continuing CA List of Shame:

1) Thelen Reid*
2) Reed Smith
3) Bingham
4) Perkins Coie
5) Bryan Cave
6) Townsend*
7) Baker & McKenzie
8) Schiff
9) Seyfarth Shaw
10) Sonnenschein
11) Foley
12) Greenberg Traurig
13) Holland & Knight

* denotes CA-based firm

lat: Jenner thread please

someone post the A-list, i can't find it online.

I'm with 4:14. Since when can you be a "boutique" if your specialty is "litigation" and you have that many lawyers? See e.g. Quinn.

1 Debevoise & Plimpton New York
2 Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler New York
3 Latham & Watkins National
4 Davis Polk & Wardwell New York
5 Heller Ehrman San Francisco
6 Morrison & Foerster San Francisco
7 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison New York
8 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton New York
9 Shearman & Sterling New York
10 Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky Washington, D.C.
11 Weil, Gotshal & Manges New York
12 Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr Washington, D.C.
13 Covington & Burling Washington, D.C.
14 Hughes Hubbard & Reed New York
15 Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson New York
**16 Bingham McCutchen National**
17 Jenner & Block Chicago
18 Hogan & Hartson National
19 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy New York
20 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher Los Angeles

1 Debevoise & Plimpton
2 Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler
3 Latham & Watkins
4 Davis Polk & Wardwell
5 Heller Ehrman San Francisco
6 Morrison & Foerster
7 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
8 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
9 Shearman & Sterling
10 Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky
11 Weil, Gotshal & Manges
12 Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr
13 Covington & Burling
14 Hughes Hubbard & Reed
15 Fried, Frank,
16 Bingham McCutchen
17 Jenner & Block
18 Hogan & Hartson
19 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy
20 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher

Nice work 5.12

Best places to work, my ass. Show me the money.

Lat, get on this.

Hey, Jenner's on the A-List, too. there is a theme emerging here - Jenner, Bingham, hmmm.... Should we make an "A-List of Shame"?

What the hell is the A List?

Are Jenner and Bingham the only non-160 firms on the A-List?

Anyone know what firms are paying in Portland, OR?

A-list of Shame:

Bingham
Jenner

Bingham needs to get off its ass and raise salaries. Either that, or admit it doesn't play in the big leagues anymore.

Bingham needs to get off its ass and raise salaries. Either that, or admit it doesn't play in the big leagues anymore.

if i was a jenner/bingham summer associate, this would be all the information i would need to know. get while the getting is good.

Good thing I didn't go to Bingham...Oh wait, my firm STILL hasn't raised yet either. Woe is me.

6:08- really? That's it, in terms of deciding where to work?

I think 6:08 meant that it's it in terms of deciding where NOT to work. But that's just me.

Maybe this is obvious (I'm new on here), but if Jenner is going to raise (like everyone seems to think on here), what's the point of waiting?

6:08:

Ditto that the other firms that gave bullshit "raises" like Manatt (effective 1/1/08), Wilson Sonsini (which reduced overall compensation), or Heller/Mofo (which got rid of the 2000 hours base bonus structure).

Summers, be very careful of joining any firm that is a slowmover (the firms on the lists of shame) or a wolf in sheep's clothing vis a vis bumping salaries (the above mentioned firms) -- especially with the S&P hitting record levels. These salary moves are useful for more than just adjusting comp, they help to separate the wheat from the chaff.

6:22 - that's everyone's point. for firms like bingham and jenner, where a raise is obviously coming, there is no point in waiting. they simply end up looking like cheapos.

6:26 - thanks for the advice. So true.

My prediction: they'll up base salaries again, but towards the tail end of the pack. The $165K was intended to be roughly competitive when DC-normal was $145K.

The lack of a bonus structure is popular with both associates and partners--helps avoid an emphasis on billables, although they're high in practice anyway--so I doubt they'll move to an annual-bonus system.

Bingham- Pretender or Contender?

6.27 is right on. Bingham has stated goals of "becoming the best firm in the country in 7 years", but then they have an internal reputation for being a SLOW MOVER when it comes to matching salaries by peer (or way below peer) firms. In addition, they don't give proper NYC bonuses (tiered hours based), and they don't give stub/bar/signing bonuses. Not only that, in order to pay for last year's bump from 125 to 135, they forced the first years to wait an extra month before starting, effectively nullifying the "raise". Yes, Bingham looks like a nice suit from afar, but the closer you get, the cheaper the label.

4:47 - You say "we" but then say everyone there has been brainwashed? What's stopping you from leaving? Or are you just pretending that you could get a job at W&C?

Man, it is getting hot in here.

I can't believe the "powers that be" at Jenner, Bingham and the rest of the slow movers aren't monitoring these boards.

Given that, I pose a question to these firms:

Is the PR nightmare you've created with your summers, plus the decreased associate productivity and morale really worth the cost savings associated with holding back on these raises?

If the answer to the question is "yes," then these firms really must be in trouble.

6:41-
What do you think W&C will raise to?

Jenner is to law firms as Chicago is to cities.

7:06 - My guess is a raise to $175k, but they should really go to $180k.

So is W&C really uber elite and cool to work at, or are all associates there drinking the proverbial kool-aid?

5:50: Last I heard, major Portland firms (Perkins, DWT, & Stoel) remained in the 105-110K range, but things may have changed...

W&C may be behind the market when it comes to general clerkship bonuses, but they're at market ($70K) for FedCir bonuses.

W&C may be behind the market when it comes to general clerkship bonuses, but they're at market ($70K) for FedCir bonuses.

7:39 - Both.

8:00 / 8:02 - get your head out of your ass - you don't know what you're talking about. Stop spreading false info.

8:21 -- sweet!

re: why firms move slowly. because management really is that stupid at those firms. i'm at a slow mover firm on the a-list (howrey) and according to my class rep, management actually got angry when one of the associates asked why our firm moved so slowly; evidentially they couldn't understand why it mattered when they moved from a PR perspective so long as they ultimately did. plus, they're clearly clueless about impact on summers... but, yeah, knowing what i know now i'd stay far away from a firm like that -- not every slow mover is in financial trouble, but the ones that aren't either don't understand how to make associates feel valued or don't care to do so.

Anon Mouse 8:18 -- Sadly, you're the one without a clue. IP Boutiques and big firms with intellectual property practices have gone to $70K for FedCir clerks (W&C included). Lat did an entry or two on it, check the archives.

Since when is Howrey on the A-list? Oh, the A$$-list.

Complete list of firms that have raised in DC
Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld, LLP $160
Arnold & Porter LLP $160
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP $160
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP $160
Chadbourne & Parke LLP $160
Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton $160
Clifford Chance $160
Cooley Godward LLP $160
Covington & Burling $160
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP $160
Davis Polk & Wardwell $160
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP $160
Dechert LLP $160
Dewey Ballantine LLP $160
Fenwick & West $160
Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, L.L.P $160
Fish & Richardson P.C. $160
Fitzpatrick, Cella, Harper & Scinto $160
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP $160
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP $160
Greenberg Traurig LLP $160
Heller Ehrman $160
Hogan & Hartson LLP $160
Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP $160
Irell & Manella $160
Ivins, Phillips & Barker $160
Jones Day $160
Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP $160
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP $160
Latham & Watkins LLP $160
Leboeuf, Lamb, Greene & McRae LLP $160
Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP $160
McDermott Will & Emery LLP $160
McKee Nelson LLP $160
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP $160
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP $160
Morrison & Foerster LLP $160
Munger, Tolles & Olson $160
O Melveny & Myers LLP $160
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe $160
Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker LLP $160
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP $160
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP $160
Proskauer Rose LLP $160
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges, LLP $160
Ropes & Gray LLP - Fish & Neave IP Group $160
Shearman & Sterling LLP $160
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP $160
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP $160
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP $160
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP $160
Thacher Proffitt & Wood LLP $160
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP $160
Williams & Connolly $165
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP $160
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati $160
Winston & Strawn LLP $160

Confirmed: the going rate for FedCir clerks at a lot of IP firms is $70K, and W&C (which is apparently keen to grow its patent practice) is matching that.

anon mouse:
8:12 is right--uber-kool but also kool-aid.
w&c has much less of a shat-on-associate biglaw vibe than many firms; more and better trial experience sooner than most firms; high-profile litigation; a better-than-average shot at partnership (which is equity right away--no nonequity partners and few counsel).
but it is possible to get stuck on a giant securities case for your first few years, and people do seem to work longer and harder than at many firms. then again, a 100 hour week in trial beats an 80 hour week in doc review hell.

in fact I heard that Howrey raised today, kids

9:40, you're an idiot -- as long as they raise, it doesn't matter when

What is going on with Jenner? Does anyone know if they are going to raise? Trust me, it matters to me.

12:38 is obviously a greedy partner.

id bet the majority of the 'kids' agree with me.

12:38 -- Let's see the Howrey memo before we congratulate them.

1:00 -- as if people actually remember or care who raised when during next recruiting season, you must be a law student

12:47: what is the word around the firm ? has anyone inquired? any talkl?

10:28 / 11:02

I have checked the archives and absolutely no mention of Williams & Connolly raising its fed cir. clerkship bonus to $70k.

Moreover, I have a hard time believing that they would have such a drastic split - $70k for circuit and $25k for district and state appellate. (and why are you making the connection between IP practice and circuit clerking?)

Anybody have any hard info on this?

Oh.... I get it...!!! Ha ha ha LMAO.

You mean W&C as in "White & Case," not "Williams & Connolly."

C'mon, this is a Williams & Connolly thread after all.

Get with it...

Add Sidley to the DC 160k list.

9:40, et al - its an interesting question of when a firm decides to raise. clearly, the fact that we are all here talking about it means something in that it contributes to associate morale, which affect their ratings in Vault and A-List, which affects recruiting efforts, and the buzz on campus during OCI. I think its a legitimate concern, but I agree is one that management isn't always going to focus on.....

my morale is shot....

9:46 is right, Sidley Austin belongs on the DC 160K list:

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/nationwide_pay_raise_watch_sid.php

Slow management = they don't got their shit together.

Which means that although they may talk of being first tier, when it's time to put up or shut up, they have to count their pennies, figure out where the money is going to come from, which means they AIN'T first tier.

Anon Mouse - Are you even in law school? FedCir is the Court of
Appeals for the Federal Circuit. It has exclusive appellate
jurisdiction over patent law. Hence, for firms with IP practices,
FedCir clerks get different (bigger) bonuses than clerks at state,
district, or regional circuit courts.

Anon Mouse - Are you even in law school? FedCir is the Court of
Appeals for the Federal Circuit. It has exclusive appellate
jurisdiction over patent law. Hence, for firms with IP practices,
FedCir clerks get different (bigger) bonuses than clerks at state,
district, or regional circuit courts.

Anon Mouse - Are you even in law school? FedCir is the Court of
Appeals for the Federal Circuit. It has exclusive appellate
jurisdiction over patent law. Hence, for firms with IP practices,
FedCir clerks get different (bigger) bonuses than clerks at state,
district, or regional circuit courts.

Jenner's NALP form says they're paying 160k now.

Has Chapman raised in Chicago?