My understanding is that everywhere except NY gives a stipend, and only NY does the lame "advance" thing. In Chicago it's around $10,000 - the only question is whether they give you that amount before or after taxes are taken out.

My understanding is that nyc firms pay a stub year bonus (first year bonus pro-rated for the number of months you work), while non-nyc firms do not. That usually makes up most of the difference between stipend/advance.

To 9:38, only a handful of BigLaw offers pro rated newbie first year bonuses before 6 months of service to the firm. I wish his broad statement was actually so broad.

ty Lat for giving us the money stories we want after yesterday's worst ATL day ever.

Though the Latham stipend is nice, keep in mind that Latham does not give YE bonuses to associates in the stub year. Most other NY BigLaw firms do give such a bonus (albeit prorated), so it probably evens out in the end.

Wow. Good to have Lat back after the terrible day yesterday. Please do not invite Billy back again.

you people are so f'n picky. Merck posted pretty much what Lat would have posted--including the thing about the law clerks emails and the Reed Smith summer associate pay.

946, I guess it would even out if first year bonuses were 52,000. Latham pays a month salary as a stipend in May of your last year of law school. That multiplied by 4 is much more than a prorated bonus.

WELCOME BACK LAT! can you please get the salary raises ship in order and tell us what the hell happened yesterday?

946, I guess it would even out if first year bonuses were 52,000. Latham pays a month salary as a stipend in May of your last year of law school. That multiplied by 4 is much more than a prorated bonus.

WELCOME BACK LAT! can you please get the salary raises ship in order and tell us what the hell happened yesterday?

Will someone find out what is going on with Jenner and why they are the only firm in Chicago of their caliber that has not raised?

Gibson Dunn pays both a signing bonus (summer stipend, what ever) and a stub bonus.

9:53, what are you talking about? Latham pays a month salary ONCE to cover the entire summer. Not four times over the summer.

No proration just 10K stub bonus for me with a 10K advance - so what am I really getting? An 803.00 deduction for the first six months and about 6k in cash for the holiday...

"It seems my friends starting work for Latham & Watkins this fall have received stipends (i.e. signing bonuses) of more than $13,000! And I thought I had a good deal when my NY firm was generous enough to offer me a “salary advance” of $10,000 (which I won’t receive for some time)...
I’m wondering if this bar stipend is common among other firms. In other words – how much am I being screwed? My friends in LA will effectively make a base salary of $173,000 their first year! That’s more than most NYC 2nd years! Wondering if you could post something and get to the bottom of this?"

Translation: I'm a whiny bitch. Would you please write a post so that other whiny bitches like me can band together and express solidarity?

I intended to say 9:53 was an idiot, not 9:46. I have no reason to believe that 9:46 is or is not an idiot. My appologies.

10:03

10:03

The only point I was trying to make is that ONE (as you point out) months salary of about $13,333 is more than a prorated stub bonus at every firm I know of.

10:03

The only point I was trying to make is that ONE (as you point out) months salary of about $13,333 is more than a prorated stub bonus at every firm I know of.

Lat, can you confirm the Covington raise and determine when it is effective as of? Thanks.

All of Philly's big firms give around $10k stipends.

kirkland pays a $10,000 "bar stipend" paid by check during the bar studying summer. taxes are withheld and the actual amount received up front is roughly $7,000 - $7,500.

if you are clerking directly after law school you have two options: (1) wait until your clerkship ends and get this $10,000 AFTER your clerkship; or (2) with approval from your judge you may accept this stipend BEFORE your clerkship begins (but not during your clerkship)

not sure about stub bonuses? anyone know about kirkland stub bonuses feel free to chime in.

Some west coast firms (eg, Irell) do a stipend (about $12,000) AND a stub bonus equal to or greater than NYC offices. Just FYI...

All of Philly's big firms give around $10k stipends.

I believe most of the Chi BigLaw pay $10,000 bar stipends, and at least some midsized do forgivable bar loans for around the same amount (meaning if you stay at the firm for 2 years they forgive the debt). Many, if not most, Chi BigLaw also pay additional money for public interest fellowships (working part time before the bar and full time after for a total of 300 hours for the entire summer). I believe it raises the stipend to equal summer associate pay.

I can't speak to stub bonuses in Chi.

I only got a PB&J and a sweet pair of roller blades.

All of Philly's big firms give around $10k stipends.

Jenner pays 13K+ stipend but I don't believe you are eligible for stub bonus. I believe most other Chicago biglaw pays 10K stipend but you do get stub bonus (prorated of course).

All of Philly's big firms give around $10k stipends.

Sorry.

What the hell is going on at Jenner and Block re salaries? Are they completely asleep at the wheel? Katten is slightly different, but both firms look terrible.

Katten raised yesterday (my friend there confirmed to me) - why do they look bad?

I'm really interested in this stub bonus issue: any info on chicago biglaw (Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer, etc.)?

How much is Gibson Dunn's stipend and stub bonus?

I don't know of any major law firm in Chicago that pays a stub bonus.

How much is Gibson Dunn's stipend and stub bonus?

Lat - Can we get a new post on confirmed raises that came in yesterday?

Chicago also has another option for most of the big firms - PILI fellowship; get paid like a summer for all three months for working a bit pre-/post-bar and during BarBri at a nice public interest place instead of the lower stipend.

Winston pays a stub bonus

Mayer offers a pre-clerk summer, however, where clerks can essentially be summers again, but with even less work. They get paid full time summer pay to work for a couple hours in the morning and spend the afternoon doing bar class. But I do not believe they pay stub bonuses. One also can choose to take the 10K stipend instead along with the non pre-clerks.

Covington raise confirmed.

I agree yesterday's ATL was subpar. Not enough money talk. Lat, if you want to take time off AND keep your website humming, you need a deeper bench.

My Covington roomie shared the news--raise confirmed 160K first year, retroactive to May 1.

Time for the NY firms to go up! I hear from sources at Harvard Career services that they're close to moving to $175K.

10:15: You can accept bar-reimbursement stipends (and relocation stipends) during the clerkship term. See, Advisory Opinion No. 83.

K&E doesn't pay a stub bonus in Chi. The billing year ends 8/31, immediately before the first years start.

K&E doesn't pay a stub bonus in Chi. The billing year ends 8/31, immediately before the first years start.

Does anyone know whether the so-called Big Tex firms have raised in their CA and DC offices? Specifically, has V&E, Baker Botts or Fulbright raised in those cities to 160k?

seems with the "stipend," Gibson, Latham, Irell, et al, are effectively giving clerks 48K to start, assuming you did not take the stipend before clerking. Only 2K less than NY "market."

11:13 - I don't think you get both the stipend AND clerkship bonus. At least you don't at L&W, which is where I'm likely to go. NYC is still way ahead for clerks, which is strange given the historical ambivalence towards clerks by NYC BigLaw.

Back in the hizouse.

Jenner, Jones Day, and Winston:

Still waiting!

Kirkland & Ellis also gives $10,000 stipend at the end of the 3L year to incoming new hires. However, as with the description of Latham, Kirkland 1st years do NOT get a stub bonus in December of their initial campaign. Rather, they wait until the following December, after about 15-17 months at the firm, before collecting any bonus at all.

Oh, Gene, you get me every time!!

McKee Nelson gives a stipend of 1 month's pay, in addition to a stub bonus.

Gibson will give both stipend and clerkshop bonus

McKee Nelson gives 1st years on months pay to cover the summer, plus stub bonus. Both in NY AND D.C.

Most of the big firms in chicago will pay you 10 weeks of first year salary (approx. 30K) to do a PILI fellowship, which entails working 5 weeks part-time (usually before the bar exam) and 5 weeks full-time (usually after the bar exam). Its a complete boondoggle, and you get to feel good about doing public interest law too. If you do a PILI fellowship, however, you will not get the 10K stipend.

Most of the big firms in chicago will pay you 10 weeks of first year salary (approx. 30K) to do a PILI fellowship(public interest law initiative), which entails working 5 weeks part-time (usually before the bar exam) and 5 weeks full-time (usually after the bar exam) for one of the participating public interest groups. Its a complete boondoggle, and you get to feel good about doing public interest law too. If you do a PILI fellowship, however, you will not get the 10K stipend.

Are "Jenner" and "Gibson" law firms somewhere?

Why is it taking so long to confirm the Covington raise?!? Let's see the memo!

Anyone know which firms will pay a stipend to a clerk who did not summer with that firm?

There's another level of distinction here -- not just whether and how much of a stipend a firm offers to a graduating student for the bar summer, but also whether they reimburse for bar exam and bar review expenses on top of the stipend. Covington, for example, offers an 8K stipend but does not reimburse any bar exam/review expenses, whereas Kirkland offers a 10K stipend PLUS reimbursement for BarBri etc.

Add it all up and it's yet another huge differential between firms, further belying the lockstep nature of the base salary moves. Along with bonuses (which admittedly are of greater concern to post-first-years), the summer/bar/moving expenses pacakage can vary greatly across the board.

I think Latham pays the stipend to those that didn't summer with them, but it's in the form of a signing bonus. I could be wrong, but I believe this is what I heard.

Where TF is Lat today? It's almost noon and just one post so far? Dude, suck up your hangover and get to work.

I think Latham pays the stipend to those that didn't summer with them, but it's in the form of a signing bonus. I could be wrong, but I believe this is what I heard.

Sorry to hear MTHM is still being cheapo and giving the salary advance. So it was in my day as well. Rest assured, when your bonus comes, you'll forget all about it...Oh, and get out while you can!

Rumor has it that all the NY branch offices of Cali firms pay both.

So Mayer offers a pre-clerk summer, as I've heard Sidley does as well. Who else is doing this, i.e. what other firms should I call once I accept a clerkship to get another summer-associate summer?

Who else - aside from Mayer and Sidley - have pre-clerk summers (in Chicago or elsewhere). The idea of working another summer as a SA would pretty nice before going to clerk...

I think the general rule is that bar stipends are for the incoming class of associates. It has nothing to do with whether or not you were a summer the year before.

WHY HAS THERE NOT BEEN A NEW POST SINCE 9:30 A.M.

LAT, YOU ARE FOLLOWING UP A DISASTEROUS DAY (YESTERDAY) WITH AN EVEN WOSE PERFORMANCE.

THE END IS NEAR.

Heller Ehrman in NYC gave us a stipend (about $12K, taxed) and we had a discretionary stub bonus - not sure if anybody got the bonus. We were reimbursed for all bar expenses. I found the bar stipend to be an enormous help and a huge load off of my mind - NYC firms are pretty cheap in not giving it if their first years don't get a bonus. Who wants to start a job with months of repayment ahead?

Of course, the vast majority of people graduating from law school get no help at all and have to take out a pretty high-interest bar loan or work while studying. BIGLAW people are extremely privileged.

WHY HAS THERE NOT BEEN A NEW POST SINCE 9:30 A.M.?!?!?!?

LAT, YOU ARE FOLLOWING UP YESTERDAY'S DISASTEROUS DAY OF BUFFONARY WITH AN EVEN WORSE PERFORMANCE TODAY.

THE END IS NEAR.

Wilson Sonsini pays both for the bar review course, the bar exam itself, a summer stipend (10K my year) AND a stub bonus.

Gene Parmesan - he's very good.

Peter Francis Geraci offers info tapes in lieu of stipends or salary advances.

Can anyone confirm if there is any associate morale left at Bingham?

LAT, are you following up on this?

Wiley Rein pays a summer stipend (I think it was 10K) plus all bar expenses (bar courses, mileage driving to take the bar, hotel, food while taking the bar).

Supposedly Morgan Lewis and Katten raised?

Those first three keep getting mentioned in various articles, particularly #1 for being in CA (e.g. see the Recorder article on law.com):

New CA List of Shame

1) Thelen Reid*
2) Reed Smith
3) Bingham
4) Perkins Coie
5) Bryan Cave
6) Townsend*
7) A bunch of Chicago firms except for Kirkland & Ellis, Sidley, McDermott, Mayer Brown, DLA Piper, and Winston & Strawn, and apparently Katten?

* denotes CA-based firm

I agree with 10:08. The original poster is whiny. "In other words -- how much am I being screwed." Come on. If you think you are being screwed now, prepare to be miserable for the next several years.

i know cravath gives a 3k arrival bonus, barbri reimbursement, stub bonus, and a 7k advance...

i thought stipends were standard. all the sf bay area based firms do a stipend. i know mofo, orrick, heller, fenwick, etc. all do.

I wouldn't take Morgan off the list of shame YET. While they're raising first years to 160 effective June 1, they haven't confirmed lockstep increases for everyone else "in good standing with the firm." Moreover, they sent an email saying they needed time to "calculate" the raises for everyone and that they'd individually notice each associate. Sounds like compressed raises to me and if so, for all intents and purposes they still belong on the list of shame.

I wouldn't take Morgan off the list of shame YET. While they're raising first years to 160 effective June 1, they haven't confirmed lockstep increases for everyone else "in good standing with the firm." Moreover, they sent an email saying they needed time to "calculate" the raises for everyone and that they'd individually notice each associate. Sounds like compressed raises to me and if so, for all intents and purposes they still belong on the list of shame.

Pillsbury Winthrop pays a salary advance of $10K, to be deducted from paychecks $1K per month for 10 months.

Wilson Sonsini pays both a 12k stipend AND a stub bonus, in addition to paying for all bar prep.

Gibson Dunn's summer stipend was $11,250 in Summer 2006; I believe it is $12K this summer. Or, about 7K after taxes...

The firm also pays for all bar prep, the bar exam, and moving expenses -- all the standard stuff.

O'Melveny pays a summer stipend of $10,000 (pre-tax) plus all the basic expenses stuff. Don't know about the stub bonus.

Paul Hastings gives a bar stipend of $15k and no stub bonus.

Freshfields gives a $10,000 pre-tax stipend and an option for a $5,000 salary advance. Does anyone know if it also gives a stub year bonus?

Baker & Mckenzie gives an awesome stipend - pays you like a summer associate for eight weeks.

Suck it up. You're not worth anywhere near even $100k as a new associate. You should be kissing the partners' feet for anything you get above that amount. All this gossip about salary increases and who gets paid more then whom is absurd.

Irell pays stipend of 5 weeks pay ($15K+), bar exam fee & review course, moving expenses ($3.5K cap), and stub bonus.

I realize this post is old and the comments numerous, but if anyone's still reading, I did some research on this among DC-bound 3L friends (but not firms' recruiting depts) this fall. Here's what I gathered:

- Arent Fox - no bonus, $8K advance, also reimburses all bar-related and moving expenses as they're incurred;
- Latham - $11,250 bar study bonus, $5000 for bar study courses, also reimburses moving expenses;
- Gibson - $10,000 bar study stipend, also pre-pays bar review course expenses and reimburses bar application fees and reasonable moving expenses;
- Wilmer - $4,500 signing bonus, also reimburses bar and moving expenses;
- Hogan - $4,000 living stipend, also reimburses bar study courses and moving expenses.
- Baker Botts (DC) - $4,500 bonuses, also reimburses all bar and moving expenses.

Last I checked, the major Texas firms all give 10k signing bonuses (some divide it up into a 5k graduation bonus + 5k signing bonus, or label it a 10k bar study stipend).

I GOT A JOB!!! Orrick LA! I love you!

Baker & McKenzie doesn't give a stipend in the NY office. They do an advance in addition to paying all your bar exam and review course fees.

You have to also consider whether the firm reimburses for bar expenses, or if they expect you to pay for it out of the stipend. I've heard of it going both ways.

HAS ANYONE BEEN ABLE TO CONVINCE HIS/HER FIRM TO PAY THE STIPEND IN ADDITION TO A CLERKSHIP BONUS -- EVEN THOUGH HE/SHE SUMMERED AT A DIFFERENT FIRM????????

HOW ABOUT IF IT IS THE SAME FIRM?

Orrick is a joke. They pay 10k and tax it. If you leave within three years, you have to pay the full 10k back.

Orrick is a joke. They pay 10k and tax it. If you leave within three years, you have to pay the full 10k back.

Orrick is a joke. They pay 10k and tax it. If you leave within three years, you have to pay the full 10k back.

9:39 - is that true? That's cheap as hell. Of course, there's also the question of how they'd even enforce that.

Interesting if true, 9:35. At most firms, you only have to stay 6 months or 12 months not to have to pay it back.

Regardless, you're an idiot for complaining about it being taxed.

My firm's so cheap, they take taxes out of every single pay check...one in three I could see, but everyone? WTF? That's just cheap.