First!

and we are off to the races!

Come on, NY BigLaw, make it 200k!

Come on, NY BigLaw, make it 200k!

I'm curious what this might mean for D.C. offices with significant regulatory practices.

I do believe that some Associates in D.C. regulatory practices may somewhat skittish. Regulatory practices tend to be lower volume.

That being said, the overwhelming majority of firms do not have tiered compensation levels; regulatory Associates are expected the bill same number of hours as Corporate Associates.

Do D.C. regulatory associates want to see their firms match or are they concerned that matching would focus more attention on their billable hours? Just curious...

I think I speak for everybody here (at least everybody at 160) when I say, holy crap, thank you Lat. The fact that you've aggregated this information here has made us associates a whole lot of money. Without this blog to have firms play off each other, we'd all still be at 125.

The transparency that Lat provides definitely helps speed the process. Thank you.

Predictions on the next move? Chicago bump? DC bump? NY to 190?

yippy!

So what can we do to spread this to DC?

OMM is the second greatest law firm in the Universe.

Best way to spread to DC is to raise NY first. DC won't be able to hold at 145 if NY is paying 190.

I think it's more likely that the NY raises would be incremental. 160 to 190 would be a huge leap. I think the most likely scenario would be a Ny firm going to 175 or 180, and then maybe another popping to 190.

200 isn't going to happen straight off of 160.

sweet, woke up this morning, drank some coffe and made a few grand.

the Domino theory is way more fun when applied to salary bumps (come on chicago 160!) than Asian communism

Speak for yourself, Capitalist Pig!

Soon even the lowly, sad, pathetic, virtually unemployable, bottom tier Loyola 2L will be earning 160. He has nothing to lose but his chains!

I think we may see some DC movement from the homegrown DC shops (A&P, Wilmer, Covington, Akin Gump). All the NY branch offices in DC are already on NY scale all the way up the line. If all the Cali firms go to NY scale all the way up the line, and if they apply this in DC, then it means that the DC based firms that don't match will be outliers in their own town.

According to other blogs, they raised in D.C., too. Lat???

If DC doesn't move to 160, does it implicitly become a TT legal market?

11:55-

The blue highlighted portion (where the payscale is) says that this applies to all US offices, including DC and CA. That's what people reported in the comments to the Orrick post last night as well. Lat's first blurb in this post just sounds misleading.

Rumor has it (among our associate committee) that several NY firms are planning to go to $175K for first years beginning in September (with similar raises for other class years).

Okay, maybe this round of raises will cause Texas-based firms to raise Texas salaries.

Come on BB and V&E, your our best hope.

The OMM raise includes DC associates and counsel.

what's boston currently at?

The real questions now are when - not if - NY will raise, and by how much.

Some have speculated that NY will raise in September. That makes no sense because recruiting takes place in August - why wait until then? My money is on June/July.

As to how much, again, a blowout like 200 or 250 like some said is unrealistic. The raises have come along at 20K intervals (125 to 145) and 15K (145 to 160), so another 15K is what I would expect.

Thoughts?

what does this mean for summer associates

With few exceptions - all big firms typically pay 2L summers a prorated first year associate salary. I would expect the trend to continue.

If they wait until September, they can avoid upping the summers' pay. Could that be a factor in decision?

The top New York firms have got to stop these incremental increases. Drags out the suspense (which cuts into productivity because everyone wastes time monitoring the developments each time they occur), and doesn't really get the first-mover much lasting goodwill (since everyone matches fairly quickly). Someone like Cravath or Sullivan or Simpson needs to just come out swinging big, and up 1st years to $250k. And just leave it at that for at least the next several years.

Lets face it. As much as us New Yorkers would love to see another increase in compensation in the very near future. It's not happening. First years have already increased by $35K in the span of a year. I think a further compensation increase is highly unlikely. However, I suppose a alary increase isn't as unlikely, but firms will then skim on the bonus leaving year-end compensation unchanged. Though I would love to be proven wrong.

Responding to 12:33, I disagree. While there has been a considerable movement upwards (28% increase from 125), the fact that DC and CA are moving to the same payscale puts pressure on NY. Presumably, Boston and Chicago will follow suit soon. Why would many young attorneys choose to work in NY as opposed to Chicago, Boston, LA, SD, SF, DC, if the money is the same? Firms aren't stupid, they realize this, and they will raise.

Furthermore, consider all the positive spin that Simpson got for raising early to 160. What's to say that a firm like Skadden, Cravath and Sullivan - which used to be compensation leaders - won't rush to raise just to potentially beat others, and get the good press?

12:37 asked: "Why would many young attorneys choose to work in NY as opposed to Chicago, Boston, LA, SD, SF, DC, if the money is the same? Firms aren't stupid, they realize this, and they will raise."

Answer: for the same reason that associates already work in NY for a salary that, although nominally higher, is lower in all-important purchasing power than in Chicago, Boston, etc. They must like the cachet of working in NYC (hard to understand, but to each his own), they must like all the museums and restaurants there (despite never having enough time to explore them), etc. etc.

Hey, 12:44, are you A Friend? Do you work at the University of Washington?

The question now becomes whether Gibson Dunn and Latham raise across the board as OMM has done.

Keep in mind that its fairly easy for OMM to give raises across the board since they only have domestic offices in NYC, DC, and California. Since those are the 3 largest legal markets, it makes sense to keep them all at 160 (or higher).

Gibson, on the other hand, has a Dallas office, while Latham has offices in Chicago, Northern Virginia and New Jersey.

And what about the international offices of all these firms? How will they be affected by the raise?

I think this new salary raise gives firms like GDC and Latham a chance to redeem themselves from departing from their "One Firm" pay structure of 1999-2005.

Seriously, NY folks. Why don't you chill out and let the other CA firms match Orrick and OMM before you starting ranting about you getting yet another increase (seriously, you think you will get a bump to $250k...please).

Yes, this covers OMM in DC too. Don't gloss over the block quotes, people!

(This is a blog, not a law review article. The material in blockquotes is usually important.)

I agree that the most logical time for another NY raise this year would be in between the summer and Fall recruiting on-campus. If a firm thinks they gain an advantage by being out in front of the pack (for one week, before everyone else matches), then it might happen. But, thanks in large part to this site, 2Ls now know that any discrepancy in compensation is only fleeting, and there is no reason to make a decision based on salary - for the most part, everyone in NY BigLaw gets paid the same.

Also, to the extent that stemming attrition is the motivation behind the raises, then I don't think that anything will happen until the end of the year. Associates are unlikely to move this deep in the year (from firm to firm, or into finance/banking) because it would mean giving up so much of their bonuses (which are even more substantial in finance/banking). The more likely outcome is a raise in January/February (for the third year in a row) by firms concerned that their midlevels are going to cash their bonus checks and walk out the door.

For what it's worth, my prediction would be that the NY market is at 175K by March 1, 2008.

If NY is so great, then you Yankees should be happy there even if (oh noes!) you're "only" getting paid the same amount as your Best Coast counterparts. As someone else here mentioned, practically speaking it's almost as expensive to live in Los Angeles as in NYC (cars are not an option here, they're a REQUIREMENT). If you think you're getting a raw deal, move.

Thing is, you won't. You guys live under the impression that there's something inherently better or more prestigious about working in NYC, so you'll stay there and bitch about how people worth every bit as much as you are getting paid, horrors!, the same amount. Your choice.

I'll stay in LA whether or not my firm raises, because it's just plain a better city. If you don't feel that way about yours... tough noogies, eh?

First of all, LA is not a city. It's a bunch of interconnected suburbs with no vitality. Secondly, 95 percent of the people in LA are vapid airheads. There is no culture in LA.

I haven't gotten a raise in over 2 months. WHERE IS MY RAISE?!!!

1:09, hmmm, so diverse communities and wide open spaces are less "culture" than a city (strike that -- an industrial megaplex) so infested with homeless immigrants that there isn't even room on the SIDEWALKS?

In that case, give me the vapid airheads over the obnoxious, smelly assholes any day.

What about the vapid, obnoxious, smelly asshole airheads? Or is that only in Century City? Kidding OMM CC, I love ya!

I was more thinking of the fact that NY is full museums and theatres and the like. But now that I know how you feel about "smelly asshole" immigrants, I guess I should change my characterization of people from LA to racist, vapid airheads.

Making Latham and Gibson look like second-tier firms . . . although I suppose the NY raises already did that so maybe I should say third-tier firms.

Ahhh, because everyone knows LA has NO theaters and "the like." That's why everyone who wants to go into acting goes to NY. No actors in LA, that's for sure!

LA is not racist. Just the LAPD. And maybe some judges and lawyers and bus drivers.

the only color i want to hear about on this board is green. so cut the immigrant bashing and racism talk and tell me about partner meetings and baseless rumors about more raises.

1:28 - you are not really trying to compare LA's theatres and museums to NY's, are you? I don't think you can win that argument. The only theatres in LA are movie theatres. And the reason some actors move to LA is b/c the movie/television industries are based there, not because LA has wonderful theatres. You just sound like a vapid airhead, making the other poster's point in the first place.

Making Latham and Gibson look like second-tier firms . . . although I suppose the NY raises already did that so maybe I should say third-tier firms.

"The only theatres in LA are movie theatres."

Spoken like someone who's never been to the Best Coast.

Oh wait, my bad, I guess something only counts as a "theatre" if it's Broadway.

Talk about uptight smelly asshole snobs.

1:35, you just don't get it. NY has blocks lined with theatres. The home of stage acting in the U.S. is NY. LA might have a few theatres, but it's just not the same thing. So shut up and go make your $145K in your second class city.

Vegas has plenty of theatre.

Guess Vegas must be a cultural powerhouse too. Haha!

If you consider the Spearamint Rhino theatre, perhaps.

If you consider the Spearamint Rhino theatre, you might be right. But I think we can all agree that NY is more of a cultural epicenter than LA.

lol -- this just proves how uptight New Yorkers are.

Suggest their precious little cramped city isn't the greatest place on the planet and watch the insults fly...

Titty bars do not count as theaters, Vegas-boy. Go back to your watered-down drink and third tier practice.

1:28 - You obviously have never spent any significant time in LA. There are just as many theaters in LA as in NY - they are just more spread out in LA than NY. All of the lame broadway shows (Wicked, Lion King, etc.) all play here as well. You may also have heard of the Groundlings theater which is the primary source of talent for NYC's precious Saturday Night Live. I have lived in both LA and NYC as a practicing attorney. Both cities have good and bad qualities. I came back to LA because of the weather. It is currently 75 degrees with clear blue skies. I can see the Santa Monica Ocean from the window of my Century City office. By seven o'clock ths evening, I will be surfing in Manhattan Beach. You will be drafting documents in your Manhhattan office until midnight. Have fun.

I wonder if Latham (possibly) bumping to NY scale in Chicago will push the the big Chicago-based firms to NY scale. Right now, AFAIK, the only sizeable office in Chicago paying NY scale is Skadden.

Tale of Two Cities:

Actually, its 70 and sunny here. And I will be out of my office by 7, too.

It really is amazing to hear someone argue that LA is as cultural a city as NY. No one in their right mind would make that argument. I'm sure LA has wonderful qualities (in fact, having attended UCLA I even know of some), but there is just no comparison culturally.

It is about 70 degrees with blue sunny skies in NY, as well.

Every decent firm in DC is already at $160k. That's just how it is. If you want more money you'll just have to lateral to one of the 20+ firms paying full NY scale in DC. Otherwise enjoy working at Hogan for the "prestige" (don't feel bad, judicial law clerks do it too).

1:28 - You're pointing out the exact reason why we choose the West Coast. The highlight of our day isn't sitting in a building with a thousand other people.

Instead of sitting inside my 500 ft. apartment, maybe I'll head to Tahoe, Yosemite, the beach, or any of the thousand other things I'd rather be doing than wasting my life watching other people.

Congratulations on the fine weather in NYC today. It will be seventy-five degrees with clear blue skies in Los Angeles for about the next, oh, seventy five years straight.

Don't forget we've got Disneyland too. Happiest place on earth, folks.

1:58: Yeah, until Los Angeles is underwater. Or swallowed by an earthquake.

I think I speak for everyone on this board when I request that you please limit your petty discussions confined to the subject of greed. Avarice, jealousy, and xenophobia are unbecoming. Also, your physical proximity to artists and actors cannot make you seem cultured when your own words betray you for an idiot.

Another boring which city is better discussion while we anxiously wait for the next salary move.

2:02, doesn't that go for like 99% of posters here anyway, regardless of where they live?

And, um, greed and avarice are synonyms. But of course you knew that, since clearly you are not an idiot.

Dear New Yorkers,

I live in a 1000+ sq. ft. large 1BR apartment with a wet bar and a huge outdoor balcony (good for parties and BBQing). My apartment complex has an Olympic sized swimming pool, state-of-the-art exercise room, a hot tub/whirlpool, dry sauna, gated underground parking, allows pets and has a 24/7 concierge.

Did I mention my apartment is two blocks from the beach?

I pay $1825/month here in LA. The same exact apartment in NYC would cost me $4000+/month, and even at that outrageous price I still wouldn't have a beach 2 blocks away, nor 70-degree Winters.

Enjoy your swelteringly humid summers, your freezing rain and sleet-filled Winters,, your roach and rat infestations, and the closet-space you call a bedroom. If that's what you call "prestige" than you can keep it.

I'll enjoy the same salary as you with a far better quality of life here in L.A.

What about Chicago firms?

Won't someone think of the outliners?

Dude, enough with this crap. I get it, LA has great weatherm, NYers are assholes, LA has smog.....

Hey "FunInTheSun": was it fun to get that off your chest?

I agree. Enough of this LA v. NY crap. It is getting old. By the way, LA has better restaurants than NY.

2:11, I call bullshit. I live in west LA, and rent for a huge and awesome place is not that cheap. Especially two blocks from the beach. The only way you're paying 1825 for a place like you describe is if you're going halvesies with a roommate.

I'll agree LA rules. But it ain't cheap.

If we are going to have a childish NY v. LA fight while waiting for the next firm to step up, will someone who is less lazy than me please represent for SF?

If we are going to have a childish NY v. LA fight while waiting for the next firm to step up, will someone who is less lazy than me please represent for SF?

Dude, enough with this crap. I get it, LA has great weatherm, NYers are assholes, LA has smog.....

2:15, indeed it was. I just loathe the arrogance of NY'ers. They act like NY is the center of the world, when most of them have never left the tri-state area.

There's a very good reason within one year of living in LA you meet DOZENS of ex-New Yorkers living here.

But how many of you New Yorkers can honestly say you have a lot of SoCal transplants in your city? Anyone?

Bueller? Bueller?

And don't pretend like LA is the only city with smog. NY in the summertime is just as bad, not to mention the entire island of Manhattan just smells like hot garbage from the months of June-August.

If you don't like the intercoast fighting, then go do something else. This is more entertaining than tomorrow's matchup.

2:21 - You fogot to add "LA has better restaurants..."

1:09 - "First of all, LA is not a city. It's a bunch of interconnected suburbs with no vitality."

Totally false. Have you ever spent any time in LA?

Chicago is way way better.

No, let's not represent SF, or the NY/LA people might realize their folly, move here, and drive housing prices up even more.

2:11: isn't that why NY offices should have a higher pay scale? It's more expensive to live here, we should get paid more.

Beirut is the bomb!

Wizards are way cooler than elfs.

2:19, I live in Venice, right near MDR, and I've been here for 6 years. My rent was $1600 when I first moved in. I assure you I don't go halves with anyone. If you're getting the same amenities in West LA maybe you should use WestsideRentals.com and find a place that isn't such a ripoff.

2:19, I agree on the BS for 2:11. He probably lives in Barrington Towers, which is a dump.

2:11: isn't that why NY offices should have a higher pay scale? It's more expensive to live here, we should get paid more.

Yes, I went to UCLA. Can you Socal idiots read?

2:29, I never said that NY shouldn't get paid more. There's many reasons why NY should get paid more, including higher billing rates, higher COL, etc.

I was just arguing with the people who think there's some kind of prestige bonus you attain from living/working in NYC. If harsh weather and sleeping in crawlspaces is what you call prestige, I'd rather not have any.

In my opinion, making 135-145K in LA >>> 160K in NYC, and 160K in LA will ultimately be >>>> 175-180K in NYC.

And on the off chance that both markets are paying identical salaries, you'd be an absolute fool to stay in NY.

Time and again, the market has shown it's unstable for NY compensation to be the same as it is for secondary markets. Even if many associates would go to NY for the same pay, at the margin, many would leave. It's only a matter of time before NY raises again. Of course, people talking about $250K are deluded. $200 also seems like more of a move than any firm would make on its own. I think $175K-$180K is the logical next step.

Time and again, the market has shown it's unstable for NY compensation to be the same as it is for secondary markets. Even if many associates would go to NY for the same pay, at the margin, many would leave. It's only a matter of time before NY raises again. Of course, people talking about $250K are deluded. $200 also seems like more of a move than any firm would make on its own. I think $175K-$180K is the logical next step.

I love OMM.

At $160K, no noe needs to live in a crawl space. This isn't $40K post-college, kids.

Yeah, COL is why NYC associates make more. It doesn't have anything to do with the amount clients are willing to pay. Partners are just looking out for their NYC fungible billing units...err...associates.

LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME!

Come on, LAT, let's see one! Here, I'll help start:

1) GDC
2) LW
3) MTO
4) Paul Hastings

LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME!

2:41, you wrote:

"Time and again, the market has shown it's unstable for NY compensation to be the same as it is for secondary markets."

How so? Wasn't this the case for the last 5 or 6 years were all at $125K across all offices? What was so unstable about it?

I'm just going to be obnoxious and point out that some of us have been getting NY pay in LA for months now. They don't call this Skaddenfreude for nothing.

2:49

cf. moves to $145K (time) and $160K (again).

Salaries should track the quality an quantity of work, not cost of living.

Cost of living is primarily based on demand, just like any other price. NYC costs more because it can sustain those prices without residents fleeing. If NYC costs 1.5 times more than City X, it is because people consider living there to be worth 1.5 times the value of living in City X. Residents in both cities are getting what they paid for, they just have different values.

Arguing that you deserve more pay or need more money because you chose a city with a higher cost of living is equivalent to arguing that you are entitled to a $12,000 raise because you just moved into an apartment that costs an extra $1000 than your old place.

If NYC salaries should be higher than salaries in other cities, it needs be justified based on billing rates, not COL.

"Wizards are way cooler than elfs."

Funniest think I've ever read on this blog.

3:00 - actually, both billing rates and COL are relevant. Billing rates set something of an upper limit on what firms can afford to pay associates. COL sets something of a lower limit on what associates, AT THE MARGIN, will take in order to work in a place like NY (as opposed to doing similar work in, e.g., CA, DC, Chi). Given partner profits, I'm thinking there's still a lot more room for upward associate compensation on the basis of billing rates. COL comparisons may be more responsible for incremental moves up (so long as billing rates can support the raises) than you might think.

FunIntheSun:

I live in LA too and like it very much, but douches like you are the reason why I try to stay east of La Cienega every waking moment of my life. It's the people like you, who settled in Brentwood and Santa Monica and the South Bay beaches because that's where all your frat buddies are, that are the flamers on this "LA is better!" "NY is better!" board. I'm sure you have a big apartment for 1825/mo., but it's probably got disgusting 70's era carpet, cottage cheese ceilings, and pizza boxes and beer cans strewn everywhere. Maybe you think you're classy and you put up a repro French vintage poster on your wall (to replace the Scarface poster which youv'e had since high school). At least when people are paying 4000/mo. in New York they get moldings, hardwood floors, double casement windows, etc.

Again, I love LA, but I wish people like you who post on this board about how wonderful the weather is, bla bla bla, wouldn't give it such a bad name. Quite honestly, the weather in LA sucks right now. The marine layer has been deep, and it's maybe 67 degrees out if we're lucky, with a bitterly cold sea breeze, and thick, hazy, cloudy "sunshine." I'm sure the weather in NYC is better right now; it's spring and it always is better in the East Coast. Gloat in the winter and summer, maybe. When you gloat now you're a retard.

3:00 -- COL doesn't just track the desirability of living in a place. It also tracks people's ability to pay, which in turn is based in part on salary. NY is full of wealthy bankers who can afford to pay obscene prices, which means that business owners in NY can go on charging obscene prices. We lowly lawyers get stuck with the higher COL. Which is why there is pressure for salaries to go up.

Horatio 1:49 -- if Latham bumps in Chicago, it is very likely that the other top firms in the market will move. I believe Latham competes significantly with Mayer for associates, and I think with Winston as well. Kirkland and Sidley less so, but obviously they'll match whatever Latham does too.

I don't think the firms here will want to move, but they probably will. Latham's office here isn't tiny, and they're not going to want to give them any recruiting advantage. Skadden going to 160 didn't do anything because I think it's accepted that they're the top of the market anyway. Latham bumping on the other hand would bring up the rest of the top.

Better watch out, Lat, this place is turning into Autoadmit....

3:06, who needs double casement windows when I leave my windows open year round? I'm not claiming LA is "classier" than NYC, not by a long shot. LA is too laid back a city to be concerned with classism.

I find your claiming a distaste for people living west of La Cienga as ridiculous as Valley folks saying they have a distaste for the Westside. Just like living in the Valley, anything east of La Cienga is a hole, until you reach downtown (which arguably is a hole as well).

On any given day it's 5-20 degrees hotter east of La Cienega than it is at the beach. The smog is thicker near you because the ocean breeze barely reaches you. The traffic is worse as well.

The marine lawyer in the Springtime clears up by noon-1pm. Just look outside your window right now. With the exception of "June gloom", the weather in LA is better than NYC year round. This is primarily due to the lack of humidity and precipitation in LA.

y'all need to lighten up! if it is so beautiful and sunny where y'all respectively are, stop spewing childish hate back and forth in front your computers and go outside!

l.a. and nyc both suck. go tokyo!

3:06... "east of La Cienega"?? Ewwwwwwwwww

Fun/Sun, downtown is boring as fuck, even if it looks prettier than most of the east side. Hollywood is okay for cheap thrills. Anything else in 3:06's neighborhood pales compared to the west side (as you and I know).

FWIW, I've tried westside rentals and all of their listings are way pricier than you describe. I'm also curious how you've managed to keep a place w/in 300 bucks of its rental price six years ago -- my place (Westwood/Century City) has gone up almost a hundred in just one year. Again, I'm not knocking LA, because I wouldn't live here if I didn't love it, but I think the price you quoted is unrealistic.

LIST OF SHAME! LIST OF SHAME!

I'm concerned about the increasingly vituperative (I'm not going to use a dictionary, but I think this is appropriate word usage) tone of this conversation.

I think we ought to have a peace summit before we end up with a Biggie-Tupacesque war... where somebody gets killed.

Fellas and fellettes, let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.

This is plenty good for the DC market. The unintended fallout from this other-coastal war will result in DC's big players (Hogan, Wilmer, A&P, DS) matching the 160.

Fun, you realize you live in the most polluted city in the country, right? NY is actually one of the cleanest metropolises in the world.

4:15 PM:

Hmm... but weren't A&P and DS two of the slowest players to move to 145k?

4:33 - In what sense is NY "one of the cleanest metropolises in the world?"

Houston has been ranked the most polluted city in the US for about the last ten years. And the fattest as well.

WEST SIIIDE!: I'd tell you my exact complex if so many people from my office (who know where I live) didn't troll this blog. Just have faith that I'm not blowing smoke about my amenties or my monthly rent. If you look hard enough in the Venice/MDR/PDR areas, I'm sure you'll find at least a few apartments similar to mine for similar prices.

4:33 - You've probably never been to LA before. To say it's the most polluted is an understatement. But keep in mind that LA proper is like 1000 sq. miles big, whereas the island of Manhattan is only like 10 miles long. When people talk about pollution, they are referring to the LA basin, which is near downtown and is basically where all the poor people live. If you can afford to live on the Westside close to the beach (Santa Monica, Malibu, Pacific Palisades, Venice, Marina/Playa del Rey), you don't have to deal with smog and pollution because the ocean breezes just blow it all east. Water pollution is a different story, as LA Beaches can get pretty dirty...but still nowhere as dirty as the nasty ass Hudson and East Rivers in NYC.

A&P, Wilmer, Hogan, DS and the rest cannot keep up anymore in DC. When you factor in bonuses, they pay far below Orrick and OMM (and the NYC firms). Would you cross the street for $45k?

I think that DC lawyers/law students should go ahead and put the local shops in the government/public interest category. They can hang on for a while with names everyone has heard of but I think that this winter's raises were an inflection point- they won't be able to get/keep talent from other firms. Plus they'll still be sweatshops and so they'll lose people to government and clients.

You can work at Cleary, Skadden, Orrick or Dewey and get just about any practice group you want, get paid more, have the same low chance of making partner. The local shops are going to become a permanent second tier.

"When people talk about pollution, they are referring to the LA basin, which is near downtown and is basically where all the poor people live. If you can afford to live on the Westside close to the beach (Santa Monica, Malibu, Pacific Palisades, Venice, Marina/Playa del Rey), you don't have to deal with smog and pollution because the ocean breezes just blow it all east."

The sad thing about LA is that it's not just the POOR areas that are polluted. Places near Pasadena, Fullerton, and the Valley are in no way poor, yet they are smog infested. That is what makes LA crappy. People are living in upper middle class places like San Marino or Chino Hills or North Hollywood and they still put up with crappy pollution.

People, I just want to say, you know, can't we all just get along?

Getting paid the same amount as NYC associates while working less hours *is* a good deal even if LA is not as "cultural" as NYC. (BTW, my friends who work/worked in NYC hardly ever mentioned all the great museums and plays they were going to.) Having gone to law school in NYC, when I first moved to LA I did miss the subway, the restaurants that were open and filled with people on any given night, and all the restaurants that delivered. I did not feel I was missing out on too much, however, since when I thought I was working a late night at the firm (8 p.m. and later), I could usually call one of my friends at work in NYC and "commiserate."

I'm looking for the discussion obsessed with making me $15,000 richer, not a rehearing of Biggie v. Tupac, 420 C.D. Cal 187 (1998).

Fun/Sun and 4:33 (aka WestSIIIIIDE! or whatever):

I'm so glad I do not live in the 310 area code with you people.

Clearly, the "East/West" war on this particular message board right now is not about NY/LA, but about which parts of LA are better: the bland, architecturally uninteresting, overwhelmingly straight/white, Range Rover-clogged post-fraternity depository that is the "Westside" (aka West of La Cienega), or the architecturally and genuinely interesting, historic, creative (and don't give me the shit about how your next door neighbor is a screenwriter - NOT creative), less expensive and cutting edge parts of town in the 323 and 213 area codes.

You can keep your "sea breezes" and your beaches (it's too cold to sunbathe and swim anyway) and enjoy your happy hour at Busby's or Finn McCools or wherever it is you people congregate and breed. Truth be told, I like hot summer days and warm summer nights. 5-10 degrees warmer is great with me - that's 80 degrees. Perfect.

Anyway, enjoy your bland, soulless lives.

The LA outliners have better weather and less rats than the NY outliners. The LA outliners get their pick of the top grads at Loyola Law School. If Latham doesn't match by 4:00 then I'm going to send my resume to Quinn.

Lat--can you start a topic called NYC v. LA where NYC people can call LA a vapid, culture-less wasteland and LA people can cry havoc and the rest of us can avoid the conversation like the plague?

5:48, most of us westsiders move here from somewhere else, when we realize how superior it is out here to everywhere else in the multiverse.

5:50, you are clearly a deluded, self-important, fat, balding New Yorker.

Oh yes, and New Yorkers and eastsiders eat babies!!!

"overwhelmingly straight"

5:48, you do realize parts of West Hollywood are west of La Cienega?

I love LA!!!

SRSLY, in the words of a classic angelino, can't we all just get along.

I live on the West Side. I like the beach. It's close to where I work. When I want to do something cool and have an extra hour or so to sit in traffic, I go to Los Feliz or Silverlake or Hollywood, or Echo or Highland Park. Heck, if I want to get shot at by rubber bullets, McArthur Park is just an easy roll down Pico away.

If I worked downtown, I would move east. The air is grosser, but the culture is more interesting. Rent is now about the same between the two.

One of the things that makes LA great is the diversity between neighborhoods. Love from Santa Monica to Baldwin Hills, Monterey Park and all the places in between.

Peace

6:14

Yes, I do realize parts of WeHo are west of La Cienega (the expensive parts). Nonetheless, a couple thousand gays in western WeHo don't balance out the hundreds of thousands of Dudes and Frat Boys and Sorority Girls that populate the flat expanses of West L.A.

Also, most gays in L.A. don't live in WeHo.

Could someone summarize for me plz - who are the LA outliners?

6:33, the frat boys and sorority girls don't actually "live" here -- they study here, most of them LIVE somewhere else (meaning, their "real" homes are elsewhere).

I mean, by your rubric the downtown area is just as bad -- and you've got all the RICH kids, unless you're going to pretend SC is cheaper than UC.

Damn. I can't believe Cali is willing to match NYC. Considering the cost of living in NYC and the higher billable requirements, it seems senseless to work in NY.

West Side: South Venice, Palms, Culver City, Inglewood
East Side: Pasadena, Glendale
Stereotypes: Exploded
Heads: Totally Blown

6:41- I meant grown-up Frat Boys and Sorority Girls, like the kind that have graduated (but still refer to everyone as "brah") and moved to storied locales like Murray Hill in NYC, the Marina District in SF, Georgetown in DC and, yes, Brentwood.

Also Pasadena is the San Gabriel Valley, Glendale is betwixt the SGV and the San Fernando Valleys (but very much a "Valley" city). So neither are truly Eastside. But I'll grant you that the Eastside has wealthy enclaves (the Hollywood Hills, Hancock Park, the Los Feliz hills), they're just classier and more interesting than their Westside equivalents.

MOFO match? Word is that mofo matched. Can someone please confirm?

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1178269492857

MOFO matches in all US offices.

MOFO announced tonight that it was going up to $160 for first years and pretty much tracking the Orrick, etc. raises for all other class years for all offices. Pretty cool, but the catch - MOFO eliminated the "contribution bonus" payable upon hitting 1950. More or less took the 1950 bonus, which almost everyone earns, plus a few grand more and spread that over a 12 month period. NY lawyers still get bonuses like all other NY attorneys.

PAY SCALE:

1 - $160 (2006)
2 - $170 (2005)
3 - $185 (2004)
4 - $210 (2003)
5 - $230 (2002)
6 - $250 (2001)
7 - $265 (2000)
8 - $280 (1999)

Don't have the official memo handy. Maybe someone else can post it.

"I meant grown-up Frat Boys and Sorority Girls, like the kind that have graduated (but still refer to everyone as "brah") and moved to storied locales like Murray Hill in NYC, the Marina District in SF, Georgetown in DC and, yes, Brentwood."

I hope you know more about LA than you do about DC. To say that Georgetown is where any significant number of young professionals live is absurd.