MoFo moves first, because it won't lose its place as the King (Queen?) of San Francisco law firms.

That would move the market in SF, where the Big Three LA firms have offices and would be forced to match. At the same time, MoFo has a large Los Angeles office, pressuring increases in the home market for the Big Three.

Loyola 2L still can't get a job at any of them.

Could the other CA firms really not match? Especially given this happened right before the Summer classes show up?

Bravo, Orrick, Bravo!!

Don't get too carried away. It's not retroactive and doesn't start until June 1st. So Orrick hasn't gone all the way up, basically halfway. 1st year salary for 2007 is $153,750. (5 months at $145K; 7 months at $160K.)

Orrick is the greastest law firm in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if Latham moves first.

In the aftermath of the Simpson raise, I heard rumors that both Orrick and Latham had previously been considering an associate raise sometime in 2007. If so, Latham may be further along in the bureaucratic process of approving the raise.

wow.

i can't imagine what prompted this. certainly orrick wasn't losing its mid-levels to private equity shops like Simpson was.

Anyway, there is alot of groaning in the corner offices on the West coast right now...

"Orrick is the greastest law firm in the world."

Having worked at Orrick, I can assure you that this is not, in fact, true.

Orrick truly IS the greatest law firm in the world.

wow, my job just lost a lot of appeal

Lat, start your campaign for us "underpaid" lawyers out here in CA. I'd like to see a west coast list of shame. We've got quite the spread of pay out here, and our cost of living isn't exactly much cheaper.

This will really create huge differences in California. I am sure the top shops like Latham and Mofo will match Orrick, but I really wonder about firms like Thelen, Cooley, Pilsbury, etc. It will be especially interesting to see what firms like Reed Smith and Seyfarth do - I think they both initially resisted raising CA associates to even 145k.

Orrick obviously wanted to get an edge in summer associate recruiting. This is about the time that law students start researching which firms to interview with at OCI.

Dammit. Either NY firms have to start re-raising NY salaries (again), or I have to move. There's no way that making the same amount in NY as you could in LA, or even SF, makes a bit of sense, considering what rents cost in Manhattan right now. You could find a perfectly livable 1br in California for $1000 and spend the rest on hats.

Chris - I don't know where you live, but there are no one bedrooms in SF for $1000.

Chris, you can easily move to NJ and instantly save on rent and the 3.5% city wage tax.

There are no one bedroom apartments in LA for $1000 unless you want to live in a roach-infested dump.

Can anyone confirm that Shearman raised clerkship bonus to $50k?

Between LA, NYC, and SF, I'd have to say LA is the most expensive overall simply because you MUST have a car in LA. When you add gas, car payments, and insurance to the average cost of a decent 1bd in West LA, then you are probably above the average cost of a decent 1bd in Manhattan. People in NYC don't understand this for some reason...

Oh, good god. Please no more COL debates. Please.

That being said, I think SF is not much cheaper than Manhattan.

Let's see who matches first. OMM, Latham and Gibson will look like idiots if they don't match by tomorrow.

Quinn's been at 160 for months in LA and no one moved - so I wouldn't expect Orrick to cause changes...

Haven't you all figured out that cost-of-living is not the main factor considered in the decision to elevate biglaw salaries?

The big three in LA look at Quinn as an outliner basically. Quinn gets the top graduates from HYS regardless of whether it pays 160k or 145k. The big three didn't feel the need to raise to 160k just because of Quinn because they never really were competing with Quinn for associates.

However, Orrick is totally different. It directly competes with Mofo, Wilson, and the big three for associates. I cannot imagine Orrick's peer firms NOT raising in the next couple weeks.

True, cost of living is not the main factor when law firms decide to raise salaries, but from a fairness perspective it is the most important factor. It is simply not fair to pay NYC associates 160k while CA associates get 145k. The cost of living between the two places is not that significant.

I wonder if Kirkland will keep dropping LA associates down to the 145k pay scheme after a few years if Latham and co. adopt a real 160k pay scale.

6:17, I agree.

Personally, I'm coming out of a clerkship, and I'll be evaluating each firm's position after this market shift.

Orrick is the greatest firm in the galaxy, and maybe even in California.

I believe the term is outlier.

I believe the term is outlier.

"True, cost of living is not the main factor when law firms decide to raise salaries, but from a fairness perspective it is the most important factor. It is simply not fair to pay NYC associates 160k while CA associates get 145k. The cost of living between the two places is not that significant"

I couldn't agree more - what's worse is that firms in Texas are paying what firms in Chicago pay. Having lived in both, that is monumentally unfair. If it wasn't for all those Mexicans I'd go back to Texas (j/k).

6:32 PM: I believe you don't need to post things twice.

If confirmed, will this will surely put us summers equal in salary with our CA working NY-firm classmates! Finally! Will the others follow.

If Latham, OMM and Gibson move, that could ratchet things up in DC too. I don't think the "true DC" firms (or Chicago-based for that matter) can remain at 145 if all the NY and West Coast based firms are paying 160 in the nation's capital.

And I'll just go ahead and grant that COL is marginally less, even if our taxes are the same as in Manhattan, and a decent 1-BR costs 1500/month.

6:32 PM: I believe you don't need to post things twice.

to all the whiners:

shall we call it quits on all the moaning about how patently unfair it is for NYC folks to be paid more than others? newsflash: if you want to get paid NYC rates--and you think it it's cheaper than LA and SF anyway with all those car expenses, etc.--move to NYC and start working for a biglaw shop there. trust me, if you have any real shot at a CA biglaw spot, you'll be able to find one NYC as well. until then, shut up and keep working on your tan.

6:36:

a decent 1-BR in DC for 1500? tell me where this is, i want to live there. that's what my 1-BR in philly costs.

Is Orrick and outliner like Quinn?

644:

try craigslist. i live in logan circle in DC in a huge one bedroom with the works for under 1700. but be dedicated to looking hard and not settling right away.

HELLO: It is about as hard to get a tan in SF as it is in NYC. It is not all that sunny in SF. Do not stereotype all of California as the same.

working in DC:

I'd say 1500 is the going rate for a 1-BR apartment in adams morgan or u-street in an older building. More in dupont/g-town; less in more "transitional" neighborhoods. Significantly more in the new construction. Idiots keep buying 1-BR condo's for 450K and expect to cover their investment with rent.

6:32 PM: I believe you don't need to post things twice.

6:32 PM: I believe you don't need to post things twice.

Did I mention Orrick rocks?

You're paying $1500 for a 1-bed in PHILLY?

Damn, mine is $1350, and it's a doorman building in Center City.

DC has got to move now for everyone. There are almost 25 firms in DC paying $160k. Chicago will then follow.

"OMM, Latham and Gibson will look like idiots if they don't match by tomorrow."

Not likely. OMM was the first of the big three to go in the recent round, but waited for a while after quite a few other firms had raised. The big three will wait.

@ Whining 6:42

Here's a newsflash- associates at Biglaw LA work just as many hours and get billed out at the same rates as our NY counterparts (at least at my firm). Why should I have to move to NYC to get paid the same amount for the same work?

And BTW, the fact that you choose to live in a place where the weather sucks 9 out of 12 months probably is the reason why you are so bitter.

MoFo will have to match before the LA-based firms will. They are all too gutless to do it simply because of Orrick, but if both of Orrick and MoFo go to NYC rates, then it will only be a matter of time before everyone in CA will do it.

My partners are already pissed about going up to the $145K scale. I'm skeptical Orrick's going to cause a massive round of immediate raises.

But hoo boy an extra $7.5K would sure come in handy for those pesky loan payments.

7:39 - DC doesn't have to move, though. Regulatory practices simply cannot afford to go to 160 in DC. Big corporate shops, sure--but that's why Orrick was already at 160 in DC. (not that they are big, but their DC office is all structured/project finance).

Lat,

Can you post a list of all firms in DC paying 160K? Maybe call it a List of Fame.

La Anon - LA associates work the same # of hours as NYC? Can you back that up? I'm holding offer from firms in both, and I thought LA would be less grueling. Am I mistaken?

9:33... Although not across the board, many (most?) firm's top billing office is not NY. I know that Latham's top two last year were Silicon Valley and Orange County, for example. Pitty those fools that moved to Orange County for the slower pace!

O'melveny just matched...

OMM just raised to match NY

Where did the last two anons get the news about OMM?

10:34 & 10:37 - can you please elaborate? It would incredibly an incredibly lame joke if you were making this up.

omm has matched, i have an email to prove it

Sorry for not proof reading - I meant to say that it would be an incredibly lame joke if you were fabricating the OMM salary raise

OMM announced over voice mail in SF

omm has matched all us offices to nyc.

love your omm(s).!!

Nice. That means LW will be forced to match. I'll have to get myself a pair of alligator shoes to celebrate.

vm confirmation -

E-mail to prove it? Can you post please?

Listen carefully: it was a voicemail. There is no e-mail. No one ask for an e-mail, okay?

10:58 claimed possession of "an email to prove it."

Yes, OMM has matched nyc salaries across all of its US offices. A voicemail has been released to all associates, etc. California knows how to....

California dreamin' baby...!

Got to love the best coast! And word is spreading like wildfire. Watch out for those Santa Anas!

"California dreamin' baby...!"

Only like a third of a year behind Quinn...

Let's guess who else matches tomorrow. I guess LW, GDC, and MoFo. The feet dragging firms I predict will be shamefully coming in next week (Paul Hastings, WSGR, Heller Ehrman)

Wow...did OMM call all the offices at 7:30pm? Sounds like an emergency meeting to me. In fact, isn't the OMM leadership in DC? If so, were they calling from there at 10:30? Sounds fishy...

NY MUST RAISE TO 190!!! OR ELSE WE REVOLT~

Does anyone think Orrick being the first to raise in CA may have simply been a PR effort to draw away attention from the fact they have been bleeding attorneys, particularly partners, for the past year (both domestic and foreign offices), and the general morale issues caused by the failed Dewey merger?

Does anyone think Orrick being the first to raise in CA may have simply been a PR effort to draw away attention from the fact they have been bleeding attorneys, particularly partners, for the past year (both domestic and foreign offices), and the general morale issues caused by the failed Dewey merger?

Does anyone think Orrick being the first to raise in CA may have simply been a PR effort to draw away attention from the fact they have been bleeding attorneys, particularly partners, for the past year (both domestic and foreign offices), and the general morale issues caused by the failed Dewey merger?

12:38/40 good question. But it seems like Dewey came out looking weaker from the failure than Orrick.

OMM raised to $160 everywhere

I'm not sure that Orrick's associate morale was all that hurt by the Dewey merger failure, at least on the West Coast. On the other hand, if it had gone through . . .

yeah, if anything, the fact that orrick was the one in the position to make demands to dewey shows its strength. the merger talks didn't hurt them much, if at all. but dewey though... well, they definitely got screwed.

12:22am: yes, know it sounds fishy, but there was indeed an OMM firm-wide voicemail (or at least a CA-officewide) voicemail that went out at 7:30. I could hardly believe that they matched so fast. OMM's raises go into effect as of May 1st though, not June 1st like orricks. The voicemail ended on a rather ominous note, however. It concluded by saying "the bonus structure may also need to be modified in light of these comensation changes." At first I thought that meant maybe they will be raising bonuses to make on par with NY, but then I realized, it prolly means the money for the raises will come out of our bonuses.....

Chicago firms look so lame right now.

go o'melveny!
way to match in time for 5 de mayo! and retroactive as of may 1st, none of this post-memorial weekend crap like orrick.
and yes, chi-town firms look very lame just about...now.

Lat, do you have any sources who can confirm the OMM match rumors?

Sullivan raises first-year salaries to $170K!

NY needs to go to at least 170 to adjust to these increases.

The real questions now arewhen - not if - NY will raise, and by how much.

The real questions now arewhen - not if - NY will raise, and by how much.

OMM raised this morning by voicemail. All US offices are on the NY scale now.

I think DLA will match eventually.

Orrick really is the best. Darn, so generous with the cash!

Anyone know what the first year salary is for the Pacific Northwest offices of Orrick? Did they get a bump up also . . . $145?

Anyone else heard the rumor that NYC is going to truly separate itself from the pack in the next year or so and go to 200K? Is that just crazy talk? NYC BigLaw is bleeding associates to IB and PE so it kind of makes sense.

No, Orrick did not raise in the Pacific Northwest. Read the post again:

"All offices start at $160,000, EXCEPT FOR Sacramento and Pacific Northwest."

Anyone know what the first year salary is for the Pacific Northwest offices of Orrick? Did they get a bump up also . . . $145?

Anyone know what the first year salary is for the Pacific Northwest offices of Orrick? Did they get a bump up also . . . $145?

I've heard speculation about NYC going to $190k by the end of the year, but no firm with the balls to really do it. Although, with the new Amlaw PPP numbers up so high, it isn't like they can claim they can't afford it.

The top New York firms have got to stop these incremental increases. Drags out the suspense (which cuts into productivity because everyone wastes time monitoring the developments each time they occur), and doesn't really get the first-mover much lasting goodwill (since everyone matches). Someone like Cravath or Sullivan or Simpson needs to just come out swinging big, and up 1st years to $250k. And just leave it at that for at least the next several years.

I know this has been discussed ad nauseam on ATL, but I'm still confused. Raising entry-level salaries makes no sense to me.

Firms keep on complaining about losing midlevel and senior associates, after investing so much in training them. Why not raise salaries for them?

If the salary jumps between class years were bigger, maybe more associates would stick around.

Why shower first years with money when they are pretty useless until, say, their third year of practice?

"When you add gas, car payments, and insurance to the average cost of a decent 1bd in West LA, then you are probably above the average cost of a decent 1bd in Manhattan. People in NYC don't understand this for some reason..."

Yes, but you own that car. You can sell it, you can drive it into the ocean, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. It's yours. When you're renting an apartment it's not yours. Huge, huge difference.

The Pacific Northwest of Orrick did get a bump. They are at $145 along with Sacramento.

Also, Orrick pays uniform bonuses to all its US offices, thus guaranteeing that the overall comp is the same in SF and NYC.

Okay...so I'm lateraling out of Latham if it sits idle on this one...hard to sell the summers on less pay, same work.

Which one of you goofs thinks Quinn gets the best law grads no matter what it pays? "HYS" kids can't possibly be that dumb-tarded, having gotten into those schools and all.

Quinn definitely does not get the "best" HYS grads. At least at Harvard, they are definitely perceived as inferior to the "Big 3." You can make a credible claim that Munger and perhaps Irell have a marked recruiting advantage, but not Quinn.