West Coast Pay Raise Watch: Latham Is Taking Its Time, Thank You Very Much
Nope, we haven’t heard about any more West Coast firms announcing associate pay raises. We have nothing to add to the recent announcements by Orrick, O’Melveny, and MoFo.
If you’re expecting Latham & Watkins to act soon, you will probably be disappointed. They weren’t too quick on the draw the last time around. And rumor has it that they’re taking their sweet time about a raise now, too.
From an anonymous commenter (caveat — not verified):
“Our managing partner here at LW in LA has quietly been spreading the word that we should expect the bump, and that we shouldn’t get worried if we don’t hear anything formal until the end of the month after the executive committee has its May meeting. Apparently they don’t want to contribute to the ‘hysteria’ (his words) by having an emergency meeting over this.”
Hysteria. We love it. Associate pay raises = Salem witch trials.
We saw Goody Orrick with the Devil! And Goody O’Melveny and Goody Morrison, too!
(Please treat this as a new open thread for salary discussion. Please note any breaking news in the comments — and send it to us by email, too. Thanks.)
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From today's Recorder:
"Other firms that adopted the split scale earlier this year held back Friday. Boston-based Bingham McCutchen, which has about a third of its nearly 1,000 lawyers in California, was among them.
"All we can say at this point is that we are monitoring the situation, but I don't expect that we will make any immediate moves," said Hank Shafran, Bingham's director of communications. "
Since Quinn is a CA-based firm that went to 160k way back when NY was, does that make them the devil?
For so many reasons, 4:40.
DC, Chi, and NYC should all pay the same base. Bonus should be higher for NY.
david lat...you are the man...that is all
Lat, you're the man because you help us stick it to "the man."
Lat, you are the man because you make me feel like a woman.
I find it impossible to believe that LW didn't plan for this back when the initial Simpson raise kicked this whole thing off. They surely must have already run all the numbers when deciding last time. If they do wait until the end of this month, do they match OMM and make it effective on May 1, or do they match Orrick and make it effective June 1. My guess would definitely be June 1.
NY=190.
DC = 160!!!
Maybe they are waiting to try to screw us summers!!
Sorry, 5:10, DC market is already at $160k (or at least 30 firms are). Your firm is second-tier.
Say what's up to L2L for me when you see him for his callback.
NY will make its move come September, and it won't be 190, it will be 175.
5:15 - - I'm not sure if there are "at least 30" firms at 160. Even so, there are well over 100 big law firms in DC- - 30 is less than 1/3. I doubt that if you look at the vault or AmLaw 100, numbers 1-30 pay 160, and no one else does.
Good math and reasoning though. He's a thought, next time you try and make a nasty comment, think it through. Or, maybe run it by some of your friends, whom I can only assume are imaginary. If Mr. Pixie and Johnny Adventure give you the thumbs up, feel free to be the prick you normally are.
5:22 is probably right - unfortunately!
Waiting is an insult to all the summers who had multiple options & took CA jobs w/ GDC & LW under the implicit assumption that they were the top of the pay market. If they don't raise soon, I am sure that faith in them will not be there for the next class they recruit.
Do these firms not understand how much compensation plays into the decisions of law students w/ 100K+ of debt?
If/When NY moves to 175/190/take-your-pick, those with firm-wide policies on associate compensation are going to have to alter them. It's untenable for firms (e.g., Weil) to pay associates in NY and Texas/DC/etc. the same amount.
"Waiting is an insult to all the summers who had multiple options & took CA jobs w/ GDC & LW under the implicit assumption that they were the top of the pay market. If they don't raise soon, I am sure that faith in them will not be there for the next class they recruit."
Oh jeez - summer associates, who firms pay to hang around for three months to eat, drink, and go whitewater rafting, are being "insulted" by having to wait to find out whether they'll be paid at the $145K or the $160K rate while they spend the summer doing no useful work? Cry me a river, give me a break, etc. Jeez. Either way, said "insulted" law students will make nearly $3000/week for doing nothing - and can then reinterview with firms that are at "the top of the pay market" (i.e. roughly $7500 higher after taxes) come fall.
I mean, HONESTLY. Of all the people that firms might be "insulting" (or not) with their compensation decisions, summers are at the bottom of the list - no, make that, aren't on the list. Now, I get that firms consider recruiting images when making salary decisions, of course. But, to suggest that firms are "insulting" summers by paying them at ANY six figure rate to do nothing for a summer is downright ludicrous.
5:50 - Agree in part.
However, it's takes money to make money. Summers are an investment. Plus, how much "real work" can they do. You can't invest the time and effort to teach them, because the summer is too short. You also can't put them on any long-term projects.
Plus, it's a good screening process - - or leat could be.
Come on DLA! Be one of the first to make a move, for once!
http://www.lawfirmdiscussion.com/compensation/dc07salary.php There are 25 firms (out of the Am Law 100) that pay at the 160K scale in DC. They are all either the branch office of a New York, or more recently, LA firm, or an IP boutique (who always pay above market). The exceptions are Williams & Connolly – (whose lack of a bonus system mandates a higher salary), and Jones Day – (who does not have a lock step system – thus, arguably saving money in the later years). To say that a firm that doesn't pay at 160K in DC is "second tier" is to classify Kirkland & Ellis, Sidley, Latham, Covington & Burling, Gibson, A&P, Hogan, Mayer, etc., as second tier firms - all of these firms are in the Vault 30 and in the top half of the AmLaw 100 - not to mention firms taking on some of the biggest cases and deals. It is not just arrogant, but simply incorrect to classify those firms as "second tier." No doubt - they should pay 160K in DC - but the simple matter is, only New York based firms (with a few - 6 - exceptions) pay at 160K in DC - this should not be the case, but it is. With almost every single firm in DC paying at 145K, including all of the big players in town, the market is at 145K not 160......and like Anon 5:10 - I hope that changes and DC moves to 160K soon. So “huh? 5:15” – you should get your facts straight – understand the numbers – before blathering on and looking like the arrogant ass I’m sure your partners and imaginary friends think you are.
remember all you soon to be HYS grads...when a firm DELAYS raising salaries, it means they are stingy and don't care about the little people...you don't want to work there even if they eventually raise
CLOWNED!
5:15 you think Hogan, Wilmer and A&P are second tier in DC? I think that means your opinion isn't worth much.
5:28, Mr. Pixie says you're second-tier, too. I'm still waiting to hear back from Mr. Adventure.
You're just mad because you'll have to share an office with L2L.
I'll bet anything Pixie Adventure is a law student working part-time for Gallion.
Feel that sting, Hogan/Wilmer/A&P? That's pride, f-ing with you.
My opinion is worth nothing. But is a t-shirt that says "Hogan" (vice "Cleary") worth $15k base and $15k bonus for doing the same job? Not to me.
what is a HYS grad?
If Pixie is crazy then why are you wasting time trying to reason with him?
HYS = Harvard, Yale, Stanford ( the top 3 law schools)
Debevoise, via email, just announced that they're going to $50K for clerkships.
Dear NY Trolls:
Actually, I think it's just one of you who's clogging the board every five minutes with some post about $190K pay for first-years. Obviously, you feel that if you post this enough, and pretend they're from different people, that some partner at a NY firm is going to read the board and think there is genuinely a 190K movement and his firm better not miss the boat.
Ha!
So, please stop littering the board with your ridiculous "NY=190" type posts. Wish all you want, but repeating something ad nauseum doesn't make it so (otherwise, I'd be posting "Bush and Cheney Will Be Impeached" a couple hundred times a day).
And please, take a deep breath, and consider the fact that you make way more money than most folks ever do, and that you're not automatically entitled to $190,000 a year fresh out of law school because some legal sweatshop decided to hire you to do document review or due diligence. Moreover, neither are you automatically entitled to get paid more than anyone else by virtue of your geographic location. If your self-worth is limited to the fact that you make more than people who work in ______, maybe it's time for some serious therapy. For many, many years all first years, New Yorkers and Californians and Chicagoans alike, made $125K out of law school, and not a soul complained.
Meanwhile, by trying to drum up support for 190K a year, you're just coming across like a royal douchebag and making clear to me that you're some idiot 2L or 3L who's headed for a Midtown firm and has big old dollar signs in his eyes.
Where's Paul Hastings in all this?
6:17 - I agree with you.
Except I bet many souls complained about the $125K.
6:20 - Paul Hastings will be the last to match. They are even cheaper than LW and Gibson.
With all this attention to money-grubbing, Lat is missing the latest Monica Goodling gossip. For shame.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003166.php
5:50, its amazing how some lawyers (such as yourself) don't understand market economics.
The market sets the worth of a summer, not any implicit fairness standard. As a student in the top of my class at a top school, I may do no billing over the summer and still be "worth" whatever the highest offer I am made.
Don't tell me I'm worth nothing. Tell that to the 5 firms I got offers from.
"please stop littering the board with your ridiculous "NY=190" type posts"
Do they not have access to well-known legal periodicals in the flyover state where you reside? The police blotter pages in "The Bumfucke Bee" where you read about Cousin Smitty's latest arrest for cow-tippin' doesn't count, btw.
Law.com had a HUGE article in the past three months about how 190K is expected in NYC before the close of the year. It's not a question of "if," it's a question of "when."
Debevoise is at 50k, huh? Good to hear.
6:39--
I think he was taking issue with 5:38's sense of entitlement, not the functioning of the market. In fact, you should disagree with 5:38, since he was offered (and accepted) pay on the 145k scale.
And clearly the fact you got more than one offer is irrelevant unless you were demanding above market pay, which I assume you were not.
Dear "newsflash,"
If you're going to troll someone and try to provoke them by insinuating they're from "bumfuck," then it would help to actually spell bumfuck correctly. There's no "e" at the end.
Unlike you, I don't spend my days poring over articles that give me hope of making way more money than I'm worth(and -- yes!-- I believe that first years are not worth 190K. but, "newsflash," even $125,000 is way more money than YOU are worth, dipshit). I only keep my ear to the ground on salary news when there's news that affects me (e.g., California firms raising salaries).
Anyway, it's fun provoking you, loser. You'll get paid $190K on a cold day in Hell (which is also known as January in Manhattan, so that may actually work out for you!).
"Have you ever stood and stared at it, Morpheus? Marveled at its beauty, its genius? Billions of associates billing out their lives. Oblivious..."
Agreed - the people who say this is "insulting" to summers are referring to the fact that they relied on firms that held themselves forth as paying market salary. Now that the market has moved and they have stayed behind, they are not living up to the implicit promise to keep up with market.
Um, there's a "correct" spelling of Bumfuck? That's an actual ... place? Wow. You sure won this battle.
And, yeah, I guess I was right about you not knowing that 190K is definitely on the docket according to recent legal news coverage.
How about you stop just randomly making things up as you go along and maybe pick up a Legal Times or ABA Journal once in a while? Then you can flap your gums. But if I wanna know the latitude and longitude of East Nowheresville (sp?) I'll be sure to give you a holler!
7:00, hit the nail on the head.
Staying behind for too long will hurt their recruiting efforts. Most ambitious students will want to be employed w/ the market leaders.
7:07-
Yup, there is a correct spelling of bumfuck.
I sure hope you enjoy your miserable existence in your 400 square foot, $2,700 a month rental.
Meanwhile, with your impressive rhetorical skills, you'll make yourself a fine litigator!
[Dear Al Qaeda: when you next try to target New York, please look up 7:07's IP address and aim right for his miserable little studio.]
Ha. DLA will be the first when the Borg holds a talent contest. Big does not equal better...except for a sexy-time contest.
NY sucks.
7:18 - you're a dick, terrorism is not a joke.
dude: terrorism is HILLARIOUS.
7:51 - I guess that kind of thinking is to be expected of someone who can't spell hilarious.
Go DLA! Make the move! They already moved IP litigators up to a higher scale, so now they just need to move everyone else.
Death to the spell-nazi inphadels!
will someone tell these people that DLA sucks, it's a broken model, and everyone (including DLA insiders - see leaked internal memo) knows it.
Would like to see DLA memo . . . linky?
7:29: You're right, terrorism is no joke, but I wasn't joking; I genuinely hope a woman wearing a burqa and some plastique explosives bundled around her belt pops by to say hi to 7:07. It'd be a sad day for America, and this board, to lose this genuinely bright legal star -- just a 3L, but destined to set the new market rate for New York pay.
How dare you come to a blog I don't administer and post messages implying that you want a higher salary, when all I'm interested in is my own salary! Smile when you say "boondocks." You should be blown up, and I will dance on your grave!
Well, that's it for this thread. Anybody want to join me over on AutoAdmit for a civilized discussion?
5:57 - McKee Nelson is none of those things (outpost of a NY firm, outpost of an LA firm, or IP boutique).
Either way, said "insulted" law students will make nearly $3000/week for doing nothing - and can then reinterview with firms that are at "the top of the pay market" (i.e. roughly $7500 higher after taxes) come fall.
'Scuse me, but when I was a summer, I did a lot more than "do nothing" or "sit around and go whitewater rafting." I can easily remember pulling about five all-nighters, learned how to close a deal, etc. So kindly go and speak for yourself.
temoc94 - where did you work?
NY = 250K
DLA is going to be dragged kicking and screaming into any salary raise. The firm is all about boosting profits-per-partner these days. That is the only thing that matters.
It ain't gonna happen at DLA Piper unless 90% of the other firms have already moved.
Jacoby & Meyers. We did a lot of deals back then.
What is PPP at Lerach like? What did they make as Enron class action attys?
DLA won't move. Neither will Reed Smith for that matter. I'll bet the only firms that move will be the one's at $1.2M PPP and above.
What leaked DLA memo?
it's almost like kirkland wants me to go to skadden since it won't match skadden on salary or clerkship bonus in D.C.
Pony up!
it's almost like kirkland wants me to go to skadden since it won't match skadden on salary or clerkship bonus in D.C.
Pony up!
The $190k was put out there by some mouthpiece for Robert Half Legal, which is some sort of temp agency or something along those lines. *One* person (a questionable source, no less) saying *one* thing *one* article does not an impending raise to $190k make. Don't hold your breath. I'm not. If it comes, it'll be a pleasant surprise, though the more relevant (for me) consideration is how the scale is compressed at yrs 3-5.
And I can see that 2L's point. There's an implicit promise in the way that firms recruit that they consider themselves with the market and won't lag. Suppose someone washes out after 4 years ... that's probably about $35-45k extra over that period, a sizeable chunk from loans and/or extra money for whatever else.
Get back to work!!!
LAST!!
Not