Who cares? Maybe if the bar was graded, that's one thing. But it's pass/fail. Using the laptop is not going to be the difference between the two.

IL had the same deal when I took the bar there. It might have been more comfortable to take the bar on a laptop but I never gave it a second thought.

it is not fair - why can so many other states find enough outlets and not need to have a lottery

In my day, we had to hand-write the bar exam. In our own blood.

And we liked it!

So stop yer whining....

it really doesn't make a difference. i'm sure those with the laptops will score better, but i bet their passage rate isn't any different. as 1:12 said, you only have to pass. bunch of crying law students who can't get outside of the mentality of the competitiveness of school...

Hasn't this lottery been in existence for the last few years? I heard about it from a friend taking the 2005 NY bar exam.

I know of people who used laptops and failed because they put down far too much information. Handwriting is the way to go. Stop bitching.

The bar exam is stupid and easy. If you're on the bubble to the point of worrying about a marginal advantage like a laptop, I have no sympathy.

When the revolution comes and the power shuts off, you must find a way to function.

This was the policy in place last year and, yes, it seemed slightly unfair, but if you think it's the difference between a laptop and a pen that's going to make you or break you, you're in for a shock! Suck it up and bring plenty of pens.

The lottery has been around since at least 2005. If I remember correctly, at least in NYC, the laptop room was air conditioned while the non-laptop room was not, and the temp was over 90, creating a bit of a stir.

A prof in my law school allowed students to take finals by hand or laptop. When one technophobic student said it wasn't fair since laptop users can type faster, the prof replied that she usually found that those who handwrote their exams tended to fair better since the clarity of their answers were better and contained less BS. That works in law school but not on the bar exam where you are just looking to make your point by IRACing as many things as possible. Bar exam participants should be able to select their preferred mode of test-taking.

This is retarded. Many states have had the same system in place for several years now, and the statistics bear out the fact that there is no advantage to using a laptop. The only thing that it makes easier is editing your work, but the bar exam isn't about writing as much as possible, it's about writing the best answer.

I took the NY bar on computer 2 years ago and the stupid software wound up frying the motherboard on my computer.

1:26 - It was time for your Tandy 1400-FD to go anyway. Don't they have a system in place to make sure your laptop can handle the software?

Laptio lottery was in effect in July 2003 and I remember BOLE making a reference to doing it in July 2002 or February 2003 as well.

Handwriting is the way to go and there is nothing wrong with it. But it's unfair to allow both -- either do it all handwritten (my vote) or all on laptops. Not both.

i took the exam by laptop w/ layola2l in chicago in '05 and i had to pay for it. suck it.

this is:
1. old news,
2. further evidence of the terrible conditions that the poor poor ny assocs. must deal with. or, i mean, stuck up 2ls imagine the terrible conditions to be.

now: let's get back to the important stuff: salary news in mpls!

I took by hand last summer and passed. A friend of mine, who took it on his laptop, failed.

'Nuff said. Quit your whining and start reviewing your BarBri notes.

Interesting disjunct between the poll results and the commenter sentiment.

Goes to show that the commenters aren't always representative of the readership in general (thank God).

Aren't there stats on this? Pass rates being the same regardless? Chill, people.

I took the bar exam and wrote my answers by hand. It was ideal. The idea of using a laptop just adds another set of concerns and worries (e.g., laptop failure, sufficiency of comfortable space in which to work).

As for "typing speed," if you think that writing more is what gets you a passing answer, well, then I think you have other problems. Less is more on the bar exam. Be succinct. Be clear.

The lottery thing doesn't really make a difference, but it does show NY is cheap. Even the constantly-over-budget state of California can afford laptop spots for whoever wants them. NY needs to get with the times.

does anyone know how mediocre one can be and still pass the NY bar? i am sick of studying already.

I was REQUIRED to take all of my law school exams on my laptop. I didn't have the option of even a laptop lottery for the VA Bar in 2002. Did I have to practice writing answers by hand, learn to organize my thoughts off the bat, and get a helluva callous on my middle finger? Yes. But I didn't whine about it like these babies.

And I had to do it in a suit.

who cares? the bar exam is graded by stressed out attorneys while they're waiting in court.

VA requires business attire? That's southern gentility at its finest.

Apparently it happens based on the email Lat posted, but every single person I knew who applied for a laptop seat "won" the lottery in July 2006.

Basically this is a nothing, every law student who decides to take NY knows about it far ahead of time, and those who whine about it should save their energy and make some flash cards.

The stock photo of "Pink-suited woman on old laptop + nondescirpt beige background" is awesome. That is now how everyone taking the NY bar will look in my head.

I typed the Bar Exam in NY last year and though it was an absurd advantage. Especially for stupid stuff like the MPT, that really only tests neatness and organization. Also, the speed is a big advantage. If you look at some sample answers you'll see that some questions cover up to 12 or 14 issues!

And the scoring system does not allow for subtracting points, only adding them. If you say something that is correct, you get a point; otherwise, you don't. But you do not get points off for saying stuff that is wrong (e.g., spotting issues that are not there etc.). Therefore, the more issues you can IRAC the better. More IS better!

For example, if a typist gets to IRAC two more issues, one that is right and one that is wrong, the typist is better off. There will be no points subtracted for the wrong issue, and there will be points added for the extra correct issue. Win-Win. If I can type 10 issues and my writing friend can only write 6 issues, even if all 6 of his issues are right and only 7 of my issues are right, I do better than he does. However, I only got 70% correct and he got 100%! Gosh it's nice to be a typist.

For me, the hardest part about passing the bar last summer was winning that godamn lottery. And thank god I did!

Maryland also has a laptop lottery.

Woo hoo! Checked my e-mail and I won!

I guess another advantage is that the laptop users may get selected to take it at the Long Island Marriott location, so you can stay in the same hotel and not have to worry about traffic or anything else.

I took the bar exam in New York on my laptop in February 2003. I don't remember there being a lottery, but maybe that's because it was February and there weren't as many people taking the bar. The other bonus was that I got to take the exam in Manhattan even though I didn't live in NYS at the time.

Several of my professors in law school told classes that they have never seen a statistically significant difference in grades of students who hand write versus type on a laptop, with the exception of students with illegible handwriting. The guy from BarBri alluded to a study done that found the same thing.

Bottom line: Whiny AJ Soprano-type law students making much ado about nothing.

All the arguments that the bar isn't about quantity but quality miss the point. If you're typing and you can type at a decent speed, you get a time advantage of a few minutes. This means you can spend a few more minutes considering the issues and outlining your answer. That, friends, is an unfair advantage.

Plus, the MPT -- like someone already said -- is all about quantity (the more discussion of facts you give, the more points you earn), organization, and using time wisely.

2:44 -- Your professors had the discretion to award more points to handwritten exams. NY Bar graders use a score sheet and have zero discretion.

Plus, you think a prof is going to stand up in front of 100 law students (self-entitled little schmucks) and say, some of you have an unfair advantage. Live with it!

I agree with the comments pointing out that the advantage in taking the bar exam on a laptop probably won't mean the difference between passing and failing.

HOWEVER, one thing that has avoided mention is one particular benefit for those of us that type fast. I killed the bar exam roundly by taking the exam on a laptop in 2006 and was able to leave all exam sessions an hour and a half early. This gave me lots of time to lounge and grab a coffee. Not to mention that the room we were in in the Javits Center was pleasant and air-conditioned.

What I actually think to be the biggest advantage of a computer is being able to arrange and rearrange. If you wanted to type things out of order and then move them around, I believe you would be able to do it on a computer, whereas, you would not be able to do that when you are handwriting. When I took the bar exam in a previous state (and passed), I messed up in one of the books and had to redo my answer. Complete pain in the butt.

Dear Anonymous @ 01:12 PM: You are obviously a damn moron. You say, " Using the laptop is not going to be the difference between the two [passing and not passing." You're wrong. There will almost certainly be people for whom the difference matters.

Isn't at least half of your score based on the MBE and NY multiple choice?

I agree with 3:15. Not all standardized tests are designed to be time-sensitive, but the bar exam is time-sensitive. Saying that laptop vs. non-laptop will not make the difference between passing and failing for anyone is like saying a ten-cent increase in gas will not prevent anyone from filling up. That ignores basic principles of marginal utility.

I took the bar in 2004 and had to take it in Albany because I went to an out-of-state law school. They weren't offering computer testing in Albany, so I had to train my hand all summer to re-learn how to write. I was annoyed about it and, though I passed, I think I would have done much better using a computer (and could have spent less time studying and practicing handwriting).

I took NY Bar Exam in 2005. They had the laptop lottery then. But my understanding was less that the limited laptop opportunities (and thus the need for a lottery) had to do with the number of outlets, and more to do with the technical logistics of administering and grading an exam on laptops (concerns about cheating, hacking, privacy, technical malfunctions, etc.) The way I viewed it, it was actually more risky to take it on a laptop.

I have never heard of a single kid who took the exam by hand and failed, but honestly believed if they could have squeezed in some more answers on a laptop they would have passed.

More to the point - if your theory is that, by using a laptop you can input more info, and could put in a couple more legal theories than a handwriter, you're screwed to begin with. Obviously you will put your best answers first. If you believe that you will only get a question right if you have time to add an extra two or three novel arguments at the end, you're going to fail anyway. Either you know the answer, or you don't. If you know it, you will pass by hand or by laptop. If you don't, you will fail either way. Sack up and write it out.

NY should be ashamed. How backward.

I'm used to taking law school exams via laptop but will be taking the NY bar by hand - the way I see it is that you can either whine about some (perceived unfairness) or get busy studying. Sh*t, I plan on being ready to pass this thing if I have to walk to the exam and take it by crayon with a broken hand. Off to hit the Barbri books - hope the competition keeps crying.

3:35 is right. It's unfair, but it's not like they're going to fix it in time to matter. Get to studying!

3:34, you're also a moron. It's not an either-or issue. There exists a continuum from scoring 0 points to all possible points. How could you be so stupid as to not know that? There also exists a score at which one additional point would cause someone to pass instead of fail. How could you be so stupid as to not know that?

I disagree with 3:34. A friend of mine was well prepared for the bar and knew her stuff but lost track of time (probably because of anxiety) and didn't get to the last essay until there were 10 minutes left. That was the only session that she really screwed up. She ended up failing, but I think you could make a very strong argument that if she had been typing, she could have gotten enough arguments in to pass.

4:16-

your friend sounds like a basketcase. i don't think the CPU would have helped her. maybe medication.

you either know it or you don't. typing does not put your anxiety problems at ease. especially when you've known since early june that you'll be handwriting as opposed to typing.

You people are all missing the point. The fact is that there are 3 type of people who take the bar, and only one gets screwed.

First type - those who prefer to type and win the lottery.

Second type - those who prefer to type and don't enter the lottery.

Third type - those who prefer to type but lose the lottery.

All the above mentioned "statistics" suggesting that typers do not fare better are missing the point. We should ask: "Do those who use their chosen method of writing fare better than those who are unable to?"

the bottom line is this: you offer it, knowing full well you can accomodate everyone. or, you don't offer it, knowing full well you cannot accomodate everyone.

NY knew in march, when we were all forced to apply, how many people requested laptop accomodation. they had plenty of time to re-arrange test centers to meet the demand, and they failed. now, i am one of 1,000 kids, out of 5,000, who will be forced to suffer through a 6 hour handwritten exam. that's a pretty big percentage of screwed-blessed testtakers.

it may not be about time, it may not be about organization, it may not be about neatness (though i think all these factors play a role).

but it IS about a comfort level. we have enough stress and anxiety, we don't need to worry about having to "learn" how to handwrite legible, thoughtful, organized exams now, on top of everything else.

4:40 -- exactly. If they can't allow everyone who wishes to take the exam on a laptop to do so, then nobody should be allowed to do so. It's a simple solution; nobody complains, and no need for power outlets.

what about those of us who prefer to write but will begrudgingly type and really just want to avoid taking it in Albany? this is so UNFAIR!!!

just kidding - I won the lottery and passed by a ton. you are an idiot if you fail. study barbri more than a week and you will pass writing or typing. reading this blog will not help with that and Lat is a jerk for posting this topic in the middle of bar review classes.

What's new here? Law students whining because they think they're getting screwed? YAWN. As has already been said, if you're preparing for the bar and THIS is what you're worried about, your head's in the wrong place. Get to studying (studying for just a week is insufficient)!

Wow the WHINING on this board! Life isn't fair guys. You can get a sucky seat at the bar exam, get stuck in a room without a functioning a/c, have a broken pencil or pen or have a laptop that crashes mid-exam. The people running the bar exam do not care. I didn't pass the exam because I "won" one of 1000 seats and typed my essays. I knew my stuff for NY and the MBE and THAT is how you gain admission in this state.

Handwriting is best. But I can't type.

Hate you guys so much.

Any idiot who thinks the Bar is about how MUCH you write rather than WHAT you right has clearly not been listening to BarBRI. ID the issue, write the rule that applies, apply it to the facts and move on. The Bar isn't a law school exam. Everyone should stop freaking out about this. Also, taking the Bar on laptop is ridiculous since they DON'T GIVE YOU EXTRA TIME IF THE COMPUTER FREEZES. Yeah... that's definitely the kind of risk that I'd like to take during the Bar.

Admittedly, I won the lottery in July 2006. When I got there, my laptop crashed once, and my USB key failed to record the first half of my exam. That left me better off than at least 10 other people, whose computers completely froze, and forced them to handwrite their exams. Who is in better shape -- someone who doesn't win the lottery, and practices handwriting their exam, building up speed, consistency, and legibility, or someone who wins the lottery, can't handwrite more than a paragraph without cramping up, then gets to the Bar and in addition to the rest of the stress, now has to handwrite a 6-hour exam? Everyone has the possibility of losing, in some way. Get over it.

I qualified for a laptop seat in the IL bar (it is first come first served, not lottery). After a few weeks, I took my name OFF the list. For me, any time advantage I may have gained was offset by my fear that I'd get stuck in Bar score hell when some glitch fucked up scores for the laptop users. Besides, there's a page and word limit anyway, and I can fill in either by hand or by laptop within the time limit. Does NY have similar limits? And anyway, are people REALLY benefitting by writing non-stop? Shouldn't you just know answer the question as succinctly as possible? I remember in law school, the kids who wrote 20 page answers to questions that needed only 5 or 10 pages didn't do better (often did worse) than those of us who just stayed on point.

Waah waah. What a bunch of whining pussies. Just write the fucking exam like your ancestors did.

11:14 - That'd be fine. Just tell NY to not let anyone use laptops.

Oh, and eat a dick.

I voted unfair, only because you should either be able to use a laptop or not use one. I hand wrote the bar exam. It's not that difficult to do. Perhaps those using laptops in school (I didn't) should think about the bar exam and try writing a few law school exams. I got so tired in law school of hearing everyone complain about the laptop procedures, etc. Just hand write and you have nothing to worry about. It isn't the volume of what you say but how you say it. Not to mention everyone that took a laptop to class just sat around and played on the internet or played solitaire. Can't say I really feel sorry for them.

This policy has been around since at least 2004, but they used to call it a pilot program (really long f***ing pilot program, if you ask me). I was hoping to get it mostly so I didn't have to go to Albany because they used to only have computer slots in NYC. The issue isn't just whether or not you can type it, but whether you can when others can't. It's an unjustifiable advantage that the NY BOLE has been creating for years. It matters more than on other types of exams because you're graded against other exam-takers. It's should be available either to everyone who wants to type or to no one. I have no doubt that BOLE has years of statistics showing a higher pass rate among typers vs. handwriters.

In Alabama, you can type it, but it must be done on a typewriter. I know of no one who actually used a typewriter. To me that sounds like a real disadvantage. You guys are right that it should be open to all or none.

On the national essay exam (and the Alabama state exam) you have like 3 hours to answer six questions. You really don't have time to write much at 30 min a question. If you know the material you will do fine. Otherwise, you are in trouble.

I am from an earlier (much earlier) generation of bar takers, but I never trusted those who typed their bar answers.

Somthing totally anal about it...

within 5 seconds of installing the ny bar software my harddrive was destroyed. great job bar examiners.

NY ended up accomodating all those students who wanted to use laptops in their second lottery including myself. While I agree that the Bar exam is about quality and not quantity, I also agree that it is inequitable to let some use their laptops and others not. I especially feel this way since the date for special accomodations passed before students find out about laptop spots. Some of us have valid reasons for using laptops which are beyond whining elements. Whether it is because we have bad handwriting, our hands in a cast, or we just type faster, it should be allowed for all or for none.

VA was able to accommodate everyone who wanted to use a laptop. We had to purchase the software in advance and pay an extra $125.

It is my understanding that most people took the exam on laptops, and just a few handwrote it. I imagine that typed answers will be easier to grade, considering some peoples' handwriting.

had the same fears in 05 when i took the exam. and then forgot all about them when i realized yr only fear in handwriting is legible penmanship. you can either answer the essays or you cant and whether yr typing or not wont solve that problem