Only losers work outside of NY. Stop faking the funk, losers.

nice

3.00 Why is it that NYers are dumbfucks?

that's so xoxohth of you

Sweet!

what about charlotte?

Charlotte is also full of losers, loser.

Sweet!

Do New Jersey -- close to the biggest market but oh so cheap

Day Pitney:
NJ Law journal reports starting 120K in all offices except NY, but Hartford still says its starting at 100K....

Lame

That's because New Jersey lawyers suck, loser.

Atlanta, Atlanta, Atlanta, Atlanta

you skip Philly for Hartford?

Some of the CT firms don't revisit their starting salaries until mid-summer. Robinson and Cole; Wiggin and Dana, Shipman and Goodwin etc., won't match until then. They almost always match Day Pitney, which means 100 in Hartford and New Haven. However, some firms are topping this, to either 105 or 110. Withers Bergman pays 110 in New Haven.
Most of these firms require 1800 billables, and pay approx. 10k bonuses per additional 100 hrs billed. Interestingly, Day Pitney requires 1900 hrs billables, which means that other firms could easily top them - in fact Withers Bergman already has. And firms can top them by retaining the 1800 hrs billable requirement but paying 100k..

Summary: Day Pitney is still getting away with murder by under-compensating its associates. How long will it last?

Umm hello? The masses are clamoring for PORTSMOUTH.

3:11,
Back off -- there's more than enough money and billables to go around.

Its OK if you couldn't get a job in CT.

There are plenty of sandboxes for you to play in.

Do Philly next!!! Pretty please!!!

COL in Hartford is pretty good compared to Boston and NYC, housing is relatively cheap, commuting is pretty easy. It can be a very nice place to escape the insanity of NYC or the rediculous price of housing in the Boston suburbs.

Also, there is a fair amount of high level sophisticated work in the area - lots of Fortune 100's in CT and the insurance companies in Hartford feed may of the law firms (not just with defense work). Some the work you do in the biglaw firms is every bit as "high-profile" as the stuff you'd be doing in Boston/D.C./N.Y.C.

The challenge is for the CT based firms to continue to compete offering 95K/100K especially if the national firms in town raise salaries again in the current round. If that happens, I'm not sure there is a good reason for an associate to stay at a place like Day Pitney or R&C anymore.

This is good - Lat please cover next NJ, NJ firms and the NYC offices of the NJ firms!

I hear you, nutmeg. DP is getting away with murder here. They better step up if they want to compete with other 400 atty firms

If Dechert pays $145K in Hartford while everyone else is barely over $100K, why go anywhere else?

How big is the Dechert - Hartford office? Is it much harder to get a job there?

3:17 - You hit the nail on the head.

The homegrown firms are going to start finding it more and more difficult to pay their CT-style salaries, no matter what the billables requirements are. When you consider that freakin' Pullman and Comley has matched Day Pitney, you know they're being cheap. High quality associates at the CT firms have more and more options to make something much closer to a Boston salary. This is already happening in Stamford, which is too close to NY for them to be cheap.

Dechert is small office - probably 20 attys. They do all securitzation and structured finance work farmed out of the NYC office

LeBoeuf hasn't raised its Hartford salary (which currently matches Day Pitney, and is therefore pathetic). So you could do 2000 at LLGM at the bidding of NYC partners, or do 1800 hours at DP. Tough choice.

Dechert is small office - probably 20 attys. They do all securitzation and structured finance work farmed out of the NYC office

I tried to stop reading this lame post by I think I went too far. Now I have to gouge out my own eyes to purge the taint. Aw shucks.

Thelen is super-cheap in Hartford. Paying 65% of NYC salaries when the Hartford associates actually do some of the NYC work is just robbery. Dechert, Bingham, Brown Rudnick are much more respectable in this regard - paying equally in Hartford for equal work (ie. in Boston, etc).

At least one of these firms has a Hartford office and hasn't raised in CA and needs to:

Continuing CA List of Shame:

1) Thelen Reid*
2) Reed Smith
3) Bingham
4) Perkins Coie
5) Bryan Cave
6) Townsend*
7) Baker & McKenzie
8) Schiff
9) Seyfarth Shaw
10) Sonnenschein
11) Foley
12) Greenberg Traurig
13) Holland & Knight

* denotes CA-based firm

Thelen is super-cheap in Hartford. Paying 65% of NYC salaries when the Hartford associates actually do some of the NYC work is just robbery. Dechert, Bingham, Brown Rudnick are much more respectable in this regard - paying equally in Hartford for equal work (ie. in Boston, etc).

Robinson and Cole is a sinking ship - they fell out of the AmLaw 200: look out below! And they are way behind Wiggin and DP in profitability.

3:25/3:28 -- doesn't Dechert also do a bunch of securitization in Charlotte too?

Speaking of sinking ships, true CT-ers know that back in the day Tyler Cooper and Alcorn (now just Tyler Cooper) was the king of CT. Oh how times have changed: they've lost like 20 lawyers in 2 years - many to rival firms - and can't even keep up with the other CT firms in salary. Sad! It was the WASPiest, most Republican, most Yalie firm around.

3:38 -- next, perhaps, to Wiggin and Dana

How about profiling NJ? Very close to NYC, lots of business, high cost of living, etc. What makes NJ interesting is that several of the out of state firms are paying 145 - 160, but the homegrown ones are still in the 125-range. It will be interesting to see how recruiting goes in a booming legal market when 2Ls can hop the river (or work for an out of state firm in NJ) and make 20 - 35k more in base.

How about profiling NJ? Very close to NYC, lots of business, high cost of living, etc. What makes NJ interesting is that several of the out of state firms are paying 145 - 160, but the homegrown ones are still in the 125-range. It will be interesting to see how recruiting goes in a booming legal market when 2Ls can hop the river (or work for an out of state firm in NJ) and make 20 - 35k more in base.

3:44 I absolutely second that. The bigger firms are at 125k - which includes their NYC offices! Obviously, they try to tout lifestyle - but is it really that much of a difference to work in the NYC office of a NJ firm? Are there rumblings about moving up, now that salaries are up at 160, and there are rumors about possibly going up to 175? (See earlier comments section in Jenner post - this is NOT a rumor I am starting).

CHICAGO FIRMS:

At Market:

Kirkland
Latham
Mayer Brown
McDermott
Paul Hastings
Sidley
Skadden
Katten
Winston
Morgan Lewis

Below Market:

Baker McKenzie
Bell Boyd
Chapman & Cutler
DLA Piper
Drinker Biddle
Foley
Greenberg Traurig
Holland & Knight
Jenner
Jones Day
Kaye Scholler
Lock Lord Bissel Lidell
McGuireWoods
Michael Best
Perkins Coie
Reed Smith
Schiff
Sonnenschein
Vedder Price
Wildman Harrold

3:44 - That seems to be the general theme emerging here in CT as well. Every day CT is less and less of a distinct market, and more and more an adjunct of Boston and NY. I suppose the same is true of NNJ?

While I WANT to be paid more, I do fear losing some of the nice things about CT - lower hours expectations, (supposedly?) more decency and civility, quieter pace, lower COL, yet proximity to NY and Boston...

Anyone have any thoughts as to whether the lower COL and higher QOL is worth the 60k pay cut btwn Hartford and New York offices of the same firm?

NJ is very similar to CT - see Day Pitney and McCarter & English - neither pay NYC (or even Boston) salaries but rather are based off the wierd NJ market.

NJ is very similar to CT - see Day Pitney and McCarter & English - neither pay NYC (or even Boston) salaries but rather are based off the wierd NJ market.

3:49 - definately not worth $60k, maybe $15-20k all things being equal.

But I agree with equal pay for equal work. If the hours expectations and the actual work is the same, there should be little or no adjustment in reality.

Well, it depends on what you value. How much of a premium do you put on owning a house with a nice backyard before you're even a mid-level associate?

3:39 -- you're kidding, right? Do you have any idea how many hard-core Dems are at Wiggin & Dana? How they've had to swallow their pride and pretend to support republican governors?

Do SEATTLE next please

3:51 - do you think NJ firms are SOL and will collapse due to 1) inability to keep pace with the salaries and 2) inability to retain their associates/recruit newer ones who want to work for a 35-45k gap?

Of the NJ ones, any rumblings or clue as to who would raise - possibly to the old NY standard of 145k? is that too much?

If anyone is curious, Choate Hall & Stewart raised salaries in Boston. And still nothing from Bingham...

3:54 - I am thinking of relocating to Stamford, which is either the best or worst of both worlds, not sure which...

3:49 - I'd say 10K. 25K COL adjustment plus 15K for a car and car insurance you need.

3:49 - definately not worth $60k, maybe $15-20k all things being equal.

But I agree with equal pay for equal work. If the hours expectations and the actual work is the same, there should be little or no adjustment in reality.

Curious--Honestly, with that much of a price difference, it's getting harder for me envision staying in the Hartford office. I'm not into being in NYC, but why not go to the Boston office?

3:49--Honestly, with that much of a price difference, it's getting harder for me to envision staying in the Hartford office. I'm not into being in NYC, but why not go to the Boston office?

Argh....shiver me timbers!

3:49 - I'd say 10K. 25K COL adjustment plus 15K for a car and car insurance you need.

Argh....shiver me timbers!

3:55 - memo?

I can see a 15-20k difference.
That leaves a 40-45k gap Hartford needs to make up.

None of those firms will take a leap that big, when they don't have to.

I envision salaries going to 125k before September.

What about New Haven in COL - how does it compare to Hartford? There are a couple firms there and they all seem to pay Hartford salaries...

Thanks.

Thanks.

Lat, can we get back on track, please? From NYLawyer:

Add Morgan Lewis & Bockius to the list of Cal Law 25 firms that now pay associates on the $160,000 scale.

The only real holdouts now are Bingham McCutchen and Reed Smith, both huge firms with big California presences and fairly high profits that could probably absorb the raise.

Firms lower on the list with lower profits per partner like Littler Mendelson and Sedgwick likely won’t match.

Prediction -

I will sacrifice 7 lambs if your prediction comes to pass, but something tells me these cheap misers in the Insurance City will settle in at 100k....

Do you have any inside info.?

DLA just raised in Chicago:

On behalf of Frank Burch, Lee Miller and Terry O'Malley:

Given the recent changes to associate salaries in the Chicago market, we will make the following changes in Chicago effective today. Salary adjustments will be reflected in the June 8th payroll. We will continue to monitor activity in our markets.

Again, thank you for all you do for the firm and our clients.

2006 160,000
2005 170,000
2004 185,000
2003 210,000
2002 230,000
2001 250,000
2000* 265,000

* Represents salary for class of 2000 and more senior

Lat, can we get back on track, please? From NYLawyer:

Add Morgan Lewis & Bockius to the list of Cal Law 25 firms that now pay associates on the $160,000 scale.

The only real holdouts now are Bingham McCutchen and Reed Smith, both huge firms with big California presences and fairly high profits that could probably absorb the raise.

Firms lower on the list with lower profits per partner like Littler Mendelson and Sedgwick likely won’t match.

Edwards Angell Palmer & Dodge pays its Hartford associates $130k and billables are only 1900.

4:10, you are forgetting Thelen Reid, a big holdout who has not matched yet. See CA List of Shame.

EAPD is a joke as a firm, the merger has not gone well, but there's no denying they pay 'well' in Hartford.

Does anybody know the BONUS POLICY FOR DAY PITNEY?

I'd love to know what it is...

4:23 that is a VERY good question

is the DLA Chicago memo true?

4:05: The COL in/around New Haven isn't all that high considering what New Haven as a city has to offer versus what Hartford has to offer. That said, the suburbs of Hartford are very nice and have great public schools (esp. W. Hartford).

it's because 4:10 didn't put the whole article (http://www.nylawyer.com/display.php/file=/news/07/06/060107c):

Add Morgan Lewis & Bockius to the list of Cal Law 25 firms that now pay associates on the $160,000 scale.

The only real holdouts now are Bingham McCutchen and Reed Smith, both huge firms with big California presences and fairly high profits that could probably absorb the raise.

Firms lower on the list with lower profits per partner like Littler Mendelson and Sedgwick likely won’t match.

Thelen and Townsend are the only two firms that could seemingly go either way. Townsend had high profits last year, but the firm said that was due in large part to a big one-time contingency fee. Thelen’s profits per partner last year, $850,000, weren’t bad, but it would become the Cal Law 25 firm with the lowest PPP to raise associate salaries.

I've always heard that EAPD Hartford is just miserable.

I've always heard that EAPD Hartford is just miserable.

Fresh thread for compensation talk in MAJOR legal markets (sorry, Hartford):

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/06/nationwide_pay_raise_watch_mor.php

Regarding EAPD:

What do you expect when a bunch of swamp Yankees from Rhode Island take over a venerable Boston Brahmin institution like Palmer and Dodge??!! That's like letting Buddy Cianci run the PR department of a posh Boston hotel...oh, wait, never mind.

How do the partnership prospects at the CT firms, or at the CT branch offices of national firms, compare to those at the major city offices of the national firms?

When I accepted at one of the aformentioned CT firms, I was choosing a better quality of life and $90k over living at the office and $125k in NYC. Now, after a year and a USCA clerkship, I'm confronted with $95k in Hartford versus $160k plus a $50k clerkship bonus plus a big year-end bonus in NYC. How quickly things change! Can someone make me feel better about my upcoming (relative) poverty? Can the Hartford firms really afford to bump only to $100k? This does not seem like a viable long-term strategy . . .

5:55 - Get away from the CT based firms

Another vote for Philly

Another vote for Philly

New rule: if you double post, your requested market will be ignored.

5:55 - I have a serious suggestion: leave now! Get a new job in NYC ASAP, collect that extra dough for a while, and then think about CT or NJ etc.

I will be working in CT but there's no way I would work in CT if I were coming off a clerkship, that is just way too much money to pass up

145k
Bingham McCutchen
Dechert
Brown Rudnick

130K
Axinn, Veltrop
Edwards Angel

115k
Jorden Brut

105K
Thelen Reed

100K
LeBoeuf Lamb
Day Pitney

95K
Murtha Cullina
Robinson & Cole
Shipman & Goodwin
Wiggin & Dana

I think most of the Connecticut firms will have a hard time in the future. Like 5:55, I chose to go to Hartford over Boston becasue the salary difference was only 30-35k. Now it is 45-60k. This is a big difference and one that most will pass on.

Hartford firms really need to raise 10-15k to get any sort of talent from going to Boston or NYC

I'm not sure that the CT and NJ firms can underpay so much (compared to NYC and Boston) for so long before losing access to decent associates (and presumably much of their business would presumably dry up). How can out of state CT and NJ firms afford to pay more? Are the bigger offices subsidizing the smaller ones?

Two other quick points:

1. Can anybody actually speak to whether quality of life is better at a CT or NJ firm than at an NYC or Boston firm? I suspect that it is not, or not by much, factoring in the commute. Which brings me to my second point...

2. Somebody made a good point about cars. Doesn't the fact that you need a car in CT or NJ eat up any cost of living difference between NYC?

Does anybody know of a a good board for discussing the legal market in Connecticut (besides this one). It seems that the greedy associates board at infirmation.com has died.

8:20 - I think you're exactly right - a 15k bump would restore things to the way they were before the recent round of raises, bringing the differential within a realm that most of us can put up with. I wouldn't put it past these firms, though, to try and get away with a mere 5k bump. Maybe they think they can continue to get good associates, or maybe they don't care?! The interesting thing about all these pay raises is what it can reveal (or not reveal) about how a firm thinks of itself and its employees.

8:28 - I think the only honest answer to your question is that some will say "Yes, it's better in CT." But others will disagree.
The most important point is that the salary differential b/t Hartford and NY is now so great that it is NOT explained by COL, lower hours, etc.

All you can do is prioritize what you think is important, and go about comparing the relevant factors one by one, and really asking what it's like in each place. Do you want to buy a house? Do you like having a backyard? Do you want your kids to grow up with trees? Do you like having a car? Are you the kind of person who can be in at 8 and out by 6:30 and done with work? For some people, these things really don't hold much value, esp. if you will in the final analysis have more money in your pocket in NY. The lower COL in CT, and the lower billables expectations (I don't think there's a single firm in CT that expects an hour beyond 2000, and many are very happy with 1900) are great for some, but maybe others don't care. Even better prospects for partnership are irrelevant to many folks b/c that's not a brass ring they're groping for, in NY or NJ or CT or anywhere...

You can get by without a car in Stamford. And you can live close enought to walk to work there as well.

8:16 - Thanks for the chart.

Interesting that LeBoeuf has put itself in with the ranks of local/regional firms. I understand its Hartford associates bill out at the same rate as the associates in NYC/DC, work on the same matters, and have the same total hour expectations. LeBoeuf really seems to be taking advantage. I suspect that paying below the market rate is having an effect. More than several associates have jumped ship to LeBoeuf offices that pay $160 or to other Hartford firms that start at the current Hartford rate of $145/130.

If LeBoeuf wants to consider itself a peer of Bingham, Dechert and Brown Rudnick, it needs to raise starting salaries to at least $145.

New Haven:

110k
Withers Bergman

100k
Day Pitney

95k
Murtha Cullina
Wiggin and Dana

???
Jackson Lewis

Interesting discussion. funny to see Hartford, of all places featured.

I work at one of the big three firms that pay 145K for 1st yrs in Hartford and I wouldn't work anywhere else. It really is one of the best law jobs going in any market for the money and the COL factor compared to other larger markets. BUT, with that said, I still think that our firm should be raising again in the latest round of raises happening in the major markets (ie to 160K), because the associates in our other offices deserve to be compensated with the market leaders if our firm is going to compete in recruiting, and as a matter of fairness, Hartford should be along for the ride since we do the same work at the same rates.

At times like these it is good to be at a large firm that responds or at least acknowledges the movement of the "market" at their peer firms like is happening now in Biglaw. The CT firms don't see any reason to raise salaries at the moment. I bet most could care less what's happening in the national market right now.

The reality is that the CT firms will never be able to afford to compete with salaries. Look at the numbers in the Law Trib from last month - PPP at the big CT firms is around $400-$500K, while the national firms are all around $1mm.

Do a mid-south post: Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, New Orleans

11:57 - You're wrong about ppp with respect to Wiggin & Dana, which are closer to 700k, on par with many other firms that now paying in the 145k range - like Foley Hoag in Boston.
While these CT firms will not be able to compete on salaries, they certainly can do better.

Lat, Thanks for doing the Beat!

5:55 and others,

I'm also coming of a clerkship and heading to a Hartford firm and am shocked at the disparity b/t NY and CT, which just a couple of years ago wasn't nearly as great. I think 11:57 has the answer: the firms just can't afford it. NY is doing major deals and charing obscene rates while CT firms are either doing big CT legal work (whatever that means) or offering a lower cost alternative. To be a lower cost firm, the firm has to have, err, lower costs.

Still, for the firms to remain competitive for strong associates, they're going to have to move.

With regard to the CT firms (Day Pitney, Robinson, Shipman), Day Pitney is the market leader. They'll move up in the fall; they have to. The question is to what. It sounds low, but $110 would actually bring them back in line relative to NY. The biggest difference isn't in pay, however, it's in clerkship bonuses. Forget $50k ... most Hartford firms pay NOTHING!

Lat, Thanks for doing the Beat!

5:55 and others,

I'm also coming of a clerkship and heading to a Hartford firm and am shocked at the disparity b/t NY and CT, which just a couple of years ago wasn't nearly as great. I think 11:57 has the answer: the firms just can't afford it. NY is doing major deals and charing obscene rates while CT firms are either doing big CT legal work (whatever that means) or offering a lower cost alternative. To be a lower cost firm, the firm has to have, err, lower costs.

Still, for the firms to remain competitive for strong associates, they're going to have to move.

With regard to the CT firms (Day Pitney, Robinson, Shipman), Day Pitney is the market leader. They'll move up in the fall; they have to. The question is to what. It sounds low, but $110 would actually bring them back in line relative to NY. The biggest difference isn't in pay, however, it's in clerkship bonuses. Forget $50k ... most Hartford firms pay NOTHING!

dear god.. please cover philly. we are underpaid.com over here.

4:48 - according to the 5/14 Law Trib Wiggin & Dana was $590K PPP in 2006. Yes, they were the highest of the larger CT firms, and the rest were in $400-500K range like I said. Not quite 700K - my numbers were still closer

I have worked at large law firms in NYC and now in Hartford and found there to be a HUGE difference in the work/ life balance. There is far more respect for the individual, family, etc -- things that were more important to me. When I started a couple years ago, the salary difference was not all that much bc cost of living in this area, including with two cars and a home, is so much lower than NYC or its nearby suburbs. Now with the increase, the difference is a good bit more but I cannot see trading this job to go back to being a fungible commodity.

As for the work we do, I am doing LBO's and other private equity deals, complex financings and a securitization. I have much more client contact and responsibility for client development and management.

Hope that helps.

Dechert's Hartford office has free snapple. That's worth at least another $5000 a year.

Funny how none of the Hartford lawyers posted to this thread over the weekend. I guess we were all busy enjoying the good life while the suckers in NY were online commiserating. I got in a full two rounds of golf on Saturday and then enjoyed a nice dinner at the club.

I had the choice a couple of years ago to either join a local CT firm in Fairfield County or to commute to NYC. The pay difference then was big, now its huge. Believe me, I would have much preferred to have a short commute since I have a family but the pay difference for the 1 hour commute each way was worth it. I think the local CT firms will be unable to compete (along with local firms everywhere). Probably the best bet is to join a national firm. You get the high salary, but you also get the low COL.

I'm not sure exactly what the bonus structure is, but rumor has it that Bingham associates who bill 2200+ make the same as most NY associates between base salary and bonuses. Does anyone know if Brown Rudnick and Dechert have the same policy - and how many associates at those three firms bill that many hours?

GO WHALERS!!!!

Dechert's Hartford office does have roughly 20 attorneys, who mostly do commercial real estate and CMBS work. However, we don't just take assignments "farmed out" by our other offices as suggested by an earlier post to this thread. We work on the same quality projects as our NY, San Francisco, Philly, Charlotte, and Boston offices in the real estate and finance sector. Dechert's Hartford attorneys have also been closely involved in the push to expand the firm's European capital markets practice via our London office.

Because of the small size, associates in Dechert's Hartford office have an opportunity to become more versatile and to receive better mentoring than colleagues in our larger offices (certainly better than associates in the average NY office of other firms). Hartford associates have the opportunity to be selective with the projects (and partners) they like the best from across the firm.

Our office aims to hire out of the top 10 law schools, but we do have a history of hiring top students from UConn and those graduates have done very well at Dechert.

Associates need to bill 1950 hours to qualify for a bonus. The bonus structure is revisited annually to keep with the market. Bonuses have gone up considerably in recent years. Generally, a Hartford associate's total compensation will not fall below that of a NY associate one class year behind them - although that's not a hard rule.

We generally hear good things about Bingham, but we don't know much about Brown Rudnick's Hartford office.

It's also true that we have free Snapple.

Uncle Dechert

11:57 - Would you mind posting those numbers for the big CT firms? I had no idea Wiggin was more profitable than Day Pitney, R&C et. al.

I guess the real point is that these firms can afford to pay more than they are, but certainly not what big NY firms pay....

Uncle Dechert:

You aim to hire from Top 10 schools? You have 15 attorneys. 5 of them are from UConn and 2 from Western New England and others from William & Mary & BC.

I am not slamming Dechert. I think there are very good lawyers from all of those schools, but just don't attempt to make your firm look too snooty. It's just like other CT firms in its hiring.

While our recent recruiting efforts have focused on top national law schools and UConn, we do have a number of attorneys from Western New England, BC and William & Mary whose contributions to the firm have been substantial. In fact, two of the alumni from the aforementioned schools are partners in our Hartford office, including the managing partner.

While our recruiting efforts do focus on select schools, we absolutely recognize that the status of one's law school is not always a good indicator of one's potential as a lawyer, and we give very serious consideration to any qualified candidate who shows an interest in our work and a commitment to working hard. We're much more concerned with where you're going than where you came from. If my earlier post suggested otherwise - then thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Uncle Dechert

The big question for Uncle Dechert is: why don't you run litigation out of your Hartford office? If you could drop your Princeton people into your Hartford location, I'd be there . . . As it is, it seems like CT firms are the only options for those who want to do real litigation work in Hartford.

There are a number of considerations why our Hartford office doesn't have a significant litigation practice - and Uncle Dechert isn't the best person to answer. We do a limited amount of litigation work related to distressed real estate financings, and we occassionally appear in court on pro bono matters. If the real estate market tanks, we might expand our workout and foreclosure practice.

Cantankerous Banterer:

Dechert's Princeton litigation team is primarily comprised of mass tort lawyers. Pharmaceutical companies that produce defective drugs are the defendants in the majority of the mass tort litigations. The mass tort litigations cannot be litigated out of a CT office because most of the mass tort cases are venued in NJ, the principal place of business of the majority of this country's major pharmaceutical companies.

Bingham apparently has raised to $160k in all domestic offices, making their Hartford salary somewhat obscene and requiring a new chart:

160k
Bingham McCutchen

145k
Dechert
Brown Rudnick

130K
Axinn, Veltrop
Edwards Angel

115k
Jorden Brut

105K
Thelen Reed

100K
LeBoeuf Lamb
Day Pitney

95K
Murtha Cullina
Robinson & Cole
Shipman & Goodwin
Wiggin & Dana

Can anyone confirm if Bingham's Portland, ME office pays the $160K scale?

Portland, ME pays 160k, good luck getting a job there though. They have one associate, and I would be very impressed if you have credentials that match his:

http://www.bingham.com/Lawyer.aspx?LawyerID=855

Now that Bingham raised in Hartford, does anyone think Dechert or Brown Rudnik will raise? What about the other national shops, Dechert, Brown Rudnick, Axinn, Edwards Angel, Thelen Reed, LeBoeuf Lamb?

There doesn't seem anyway that Thelen Reed and LeBoeuf could stay at their current salaries at this point.

160k in Hartford is out-of-hand. That is like making 210k+ in NYC/Boston. I know Hartford is not nearly as interesting for a young associate as Boston or NYC, but with that type of money you can make it as interesting as you want.

Nice work Bingham! I'll see you guys at Morton's tonight.

Dechert matched yesterday evening.

10:14, are you being serious? Dechert Matched?

Seriously. Dechert matched. Why would that be hard to believe?

It isn't hart to believe, but I am just amazed that firms are willing to pay that amount in hartford. I am more than ok with the idea, but I still find it amazing.

There is an article in the Connecticut Law Tribune about Bingham and Dechert raising.

The new list:

160k
Bingham McCutchen
Dechert

145k
Brown Rudnick

130K
Axinn, Veltrop
Edwards Angel

115k
Jorden Brut

105K
Thelen Reed

100K
LeBoeuf Lamb
Day Pitney

95K
Murtha Cullina
Robinson & Cole
Shipman & Goodwin
Wiggin & Dana

Hartford has to raise, but it's going to be tough for the CT-based firms to manage the increase w/ PPP less than $500k. But once Dechert and Brown Rudnick match Bingham's $165 and Thelen and LeBoooof move off their absurdly low $105 or 110 or whatever it is, then the locals are going to have to move to at least $110k, if not $115k.

While the question for the local firms is how high can they afford to raise salaries, the question for LeBoeuf is how can it NOT afford to raise in markets like Hartford? Who in their right mind would sign up for hundreds more billable hours for the same rate of pay in the same city? It's just embarrassing that LeBoeuf is competing with the locals on salary, instead of the other national/international firms with Hartford offices. Come on, guys! Show some sort of appreciation for your Hartford lawyers working NYC hours!

While the question for the local firms is how high can they afford to raise salaries, the question for LeBoeuf is how can it NOT afford to raise in markets like Hartford? Who in their right mind would sign up for hundreds more billable hours for the same rate of pay in the same city? It's just embarrassing that LeBoeuf is competing with the locals on salary, instead of the other national/international firms with Hartford offices. Come on, guys! Show some sort of appreciation for your Hartford lawyers working NYC hours!

Is Thelen Reed really as miserable a place to work as the rumors I hear?

If it wasn't, it is now...

At least in NYC you know what your yearly raise is going to be. Does anybody know if there is a standard # or % for Hartford firms?

Bingham, Dechert and Brown Rudnick are on the same $160 scale as NY firms these days. The other firms in town vary a bit. In years past, Bingham, Dechert and Brown Rudnick have trailed NY salaries by $10,000-$20,000 for each class year.

At long last....there are rumors of a Lebeouf raise to NYC scale.....

lebeouf just raised to 160k

The new list:

160k
Bingham McCutchen
Dechert
Lebeouf

145k
Brown Rudnick

130K
Axinn, Veltrop
Edwards Angel

115k
Jorden Brut

105K
Thelen Reed

100K
Day Pitney

95K
Murtha Cullina
Robinson & Cole
Shipman & Goodwin
Wiggin & Dana

I think someone said that Brown Rudnick is at 160k as well, can this be confirmed?

Last I heard Brown Rudnick left Hartford out of its last raises because it was waiting to see if Bingham and Dechert moved - but now that they did, wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

I heard that Jorden Burt is planning to raise--can't remember if it was to $120K or $125K. Thelen now sticks out here, huh?

What do you know about Jorden Burt? What kind of work do they do? Is it a nice place to work?

According to NALP, Wiggin and Dana has gone to $105,000 in New Haven, $125,000 in Stamford.

160k
Bingham McCutchen
Brown Rudnick
Dechert
LeBoeuf Lamb

130K
Axinn, Veltrop
Edwards Angel

120k
Day Pitney

115k
Jorden Brut

105K
Thelen Reed
Wiggin & Dana

95K
Murtha Cullina
Robinson & Cole
Shipman & Goodwin

Check this page out for the Cost of Living Calculator on the right-hand side: http://salary.nytimes.com/.

Hartford is 56.2% cheaper to live in than NYC, and only 2 hours away! That means that your $185K (3rd years) in Hartford leaves you with an extra $94,817 in disposable income. I'm moving to Hartford ASAP.

Robinson went to 105 in Hartford, leaving Murtha and Shipman behind.

Re: Robinson - whoop de frickin do.

It's a notable move only because it is still WAY below the national firms and now even Day Pitney. Shipman or any of the other local-yokel Hartford firms now have an opportunity to pass that and try to stay competitive with Day Pitney at least.

In terms of their recruiting, the cache (in Connecticut only) of going to R&C and Shipman is clearly lost now. Those places used to try to get by on their roots and prestige in the Hartford area, but they are going to start losing big in recruiting, especially now that Day Pitney has distanced itself. Its a no-brainer now - there is no way you can tell me working at Robinson or Shipman is worth 15-55K less. It's interesting that the salary divide is actually worse than it was last year at this time.....

Brown Rudnick is not at 160K - still at 145K

Hartford List Corrected:

160k
Bingham McCutchen
Dechert
LeBoeuf Lamb

145K
Brown Rudnick

130K
Axinn, Veltrop
Edwards Angel

120k
Day Pitney

115k
Jorden Brut

105K
Thelen Reed
Robinson & Cole
Wiggin & Dana

95K
Murtha Cullina
Shipman & Goodwin

Any info about the LeBoeuf/Dewey Ballantine merger and its effect on LeBoeuf's Hartford Office?

Rumor is that Robinson and Cole just bumped their 1st year salary up to $115,000.

Did R&C read my post at 8/16 11:45? If so, R&C Associates owe me a drink. I'll be at Max's, waiting to collect....

anyone know if shipman or murtha are going to match? This seems like a big moment for them - will be hard to keep up the appearance of top CT law firms if they are the lowest paying major players in town.

Anyone know what type of pay R&C is offering laterals?
And, what the work/life balance is like?

Updated Hartford List:

160k
Bingham McCutchen
Brown Rudnick
Dechert
Dewey & LeBoeuf

140k
Edwards Angel

135k
McCarter & English

130k
Axinn, Veltrop

120k
Day Pitney

115k
Jorden Brut
Robinson & Cole

105k
Thelen Reed
Wiggin & Dana

95k
Murtha Cullina
Shipman & Goodwin

90k
Updike & Kelly

Any News on Hartford Bonuses? Particularly:

Bingham McCutchen
Brown Rudnick
Dechert
Dewey & LeBoeuf
Edwards Angel
McCarter & English
Axinn, Veltrop
Day Pitney

i heard a rumor that shipman is going to $110,000 for first years. can anyone confirm this? what about movement at murtha?

2:40 -- Shipman does start its 1st years at $110k now...i think there will likely be another bump in 08 since there's a number of firms in CT paying well above $120k