I sort of don't get this controversy. Don't they eat hundreds of thousands of dogs a day in China? Don't they brutally slaughter chickens, cows and sheep in slaughterhouses? Don't tier 2 law schools con suckers like me out of a fortune and three years for a worthless degree?

I dunno, but, as a Vick fan, I'd be more than happy to offer up some free legal services

Although "White Collar" defense attorneys generally deal with money crimes, but really, it's because those defendants can afford Biglaw defense. So if Vick can afford these guys, then he's probably considered "White Collar" too...

1:38, nice.

Crane, Poole and Schmitt would be able to set the trial for the afternoon of his July 26 arraignment, and get him acquitted at trial before 5:00 PM. All without Denny Crane or Allan Shore changing clothes once during the entire process.

CPS is surely expensive, but they are damn efficient!

Those dogs would have electrocuted themselves had Vick's friends not done so. I don't see the harm.

and dont forget on the balcony for a drink by dusk

L2L,

Reasoning like that demonstrates why you had to settle for L.

I hope he gets the full 6 years and Blank has the balls to dump this asshole. I'd give up my 145 in Atlanta campaign just to see this dog killer done

No way Vick gets out of this one. Too many witneses and America hates an animal abuser. And, who gives a shit what they do in China - American's are better people than the Chinese.

This is very much a "white collar" set of charges.

Dog-fighting to 190!

I don't condone what Vick did in any way, but you do realize what they do to dogs in China right?

Something from a quick google search:

""Millions of dogs (in China) are hanged, beaten with sticks and butchered while they are still alive," it said in a press release. Up to 10 million dogs are slaughtered every year in China, many killed slowly and cruelly to supposedly enhance the meat's flavour, according to animal rights groups."

For purposes of hiring a firm, its not a dog fighting case. Its a conspiracy case. And there are plenty of DC shops that have defended those successfully in the EDVA.

Link to China dog article

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/dogs-life-in-china-is-eat-or-be-eaten/2006/02/03/1138958908252.html

Wilmer is weak if they defend this guy. I'd never work for them. Give me asbestos litigation any day.

BAD NEWZ KENNELS TO 165!!!!!1ONE!!!

Wrong move, Vick. Get a smart, scrappy lawyer who will really dig in. He should know mutts fight better than show dogs.

I mean, didn't WLRK defend Martha Stewart? How did that go.

L2L -- so what? They have their laws, we have ours. Last time I checked most people here preferred ours. If Vick wants to move to Beijing, he has that right. If he lives here, he's bound by the same laws as the rest of us.

now now people, ever heard of DUE PROCESS. Let the man get his day in court; let's not jump to conclusions (See Duke case).

Also, from what I've heard, their case is entirely based on conspiracy; so, in essence, Vick didn't actually do anything of this stuff.

Fuck WH if they take this case. Be advised rising 2L's.

I think Vick should consider getting a specialist... like fellow Texas attorney Rodolfo Cantu - - a.k.a. "Abogado Perro."

See his advertisement at http://www.queondamagazine.com/uploaded_pictures/76_1.jpg

L2L,

I wasn't denying the truth of your assertion. I was denying its relevancy.

Your failure to see this is another reason why you were stuck with L.

2:01- I'm sure WilmerHale cares if you'll work for them. In any case if he has the money, they'll work for him.

Due process schmoo process. If 300 dogs are on your property and 30 somehow end of dead by electric shock, beatings, "dog bites", and head injuries - he's done for.

Why aren't you posting about the XOXO hacker being outed?

They do care - otherwise they wouldn't offer. I'm sure you're job at Dickstein is great. (c:

Whether he is found guilty or not, from now on:

Micheale Vick = Dead Puppies

You have to love professional sports. Beat your girlfriend? No big deal. Conspire to kill a dog and everybody gets all upset.

White collar CRIME or
White collar CLIENT?

Nasty, nasty, nasty WH.

Larry Woodward is a good attorney, who handles cases in federal court. I don't know why he couldn't handle this one.

"I wasn't denying the truth of your assertion. I was denying its relevancy."

You don't think a story on the torture of millions of dogs in China is relevant to a discussion of dog abuse?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/dogs-life-in-china-is-eat-or-be-eaten/2006/02/03/1138958908252.html

Vick should hire Reputation Defender.

Problem solved.

2:01/2:07--and if you decline their offer will they stop doing business?
I didn't think so.

RON MEXICO TO 210!!!!!!!!11111

What's the problem with dog-fighting? And then afterwards, it's good eatin'.

I think you folks are missing the point. WH has the opportunity to considerably enliven that gray laundry list of legal matters.

"We have defended clients against allegations of insider trading; securities, healthcare, accounting and government contracts fraud; *conspiracy to fight dogs;* criminal antitrust violations; money laundering; and alleged violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and other statutes."

All they'd need is a juicy murder client in there to make that list fully readable.

Wilmer Hale: #1 in BIGDOGFIGHTINGLAW

Why vilify Wilmer for taking this case? Lawyers represent people that have usually done bad stuff. That's our job. I agree this is nasty stuff but the man needs representation and he has the money to afford a good team. This is no more unsavory than some products litigation cases.

L2L,

It's not relevant to the discussion of whether dog fighting in this country (more specifically, Vick's alleged conspiring to engage in dog torture) is good or bad.

Got an idea for Vick's lawyer. Fred Willard as the goofball commentator in Best in Show. He knows dogs and has football metaphors down.

without naming names, could someone please explain what this supposed hacker outing at XO is? in a way that is understandable to someone who knows nothing about it? thx.

"It's not relevant to the discussion of whether dog fighting in this country (more specifically, Vick's alleged conspiring to engage in dog torture) is good or bad."

Really? The fact that dog torture is common practice in China isn't at all relevant?

"The society and other animal rights groups claim that many animals are killed slowly to "enhance" the meat's flavour, a charge not denied by dog farmers who matter-of-factly state that bleeding a dog to death while it is conscious makes the meat more tender."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/dogs-life-in-china-is-eat-or-be-eaten/2006/02/03/1138958908252.html

Why is anyone talking about multiple-year sentences? Unless I'm missing some info, Vick has zero criminal history. That, plus the really low point-score for this particular conspiracy count, means his max sentence under the guidelines is 12 months or so. If he pleads, it'll be 0-6 months.

Not really relevant, L2L, no. See, there are these things called distinguishing facts, plus this other thing called a false choice.

Distinguishing facts: Vick's operation is here, not in China. Vick's operation is illegal under US law; can you say whether the dog farmers' actions are illegal under Chinese law? Vick's operation involved dog fighting; the Chinese are doing dog farming for food. Vick is a highly visible, famous and highly paid individual who was the one of the faces of America's most prominent professional sports league; the Chinese are, for the most part, poor dog farmers.

False choice: Complaining about Vick is the same as excusing the Chinese.

You've made your point. The Chinese treats dogs very badly. So does Vick. Anything else?

"This is no more unsavory than some products litigation cases."

Of course it is. The goal of producing a crappy product that hurts someone is to make money, not to watch the person suffer. The goal of dogfighting is to enjoy the suffering itself.

2:52 - Dog fighting is about 18 kinds of vile. But you're wrong that the goal is to enjoy suffering. It's to enjoy the thrill of combat in much the same sense as watching boxing.

Otherwise they'd just do vivisection or something.

"from what I've heard, their case is entirely based on conspiracy; so, in essence, Vick didn't actually do anything of this stuff."

Wrong. Prosecutors assert that Vick personally killed 8 dogs on one occasion because they did not "perform" to his satisfaction. This included him slamming a dog's body into the ground to kill the dog. People should not attempt to sanitize what he allegedly did by calling it "white collar" just because he is wealthy.

Am I the only one who thinks Loyola 2L is a character? Not like he's a character, haha, but like I'm going to create this alternate persona.

also, vick needs to lawyer up for the tri-partite negotiations between himself, the falcons, and the league, over the terms of his leave of absence, how he can get paid and the team stay out of salary cap purgatory.

"the Chinese are, for the most part, poor dog farmers."

This is kind of racist.

2:52- I'm not sure the goal of dogfighting isn't making money also. I just don't know enough about it but there was a lot of money being thrown around at these dogfights apparently.

Defending a possible dog fighter is part of what lawyers do. Effective counsel is also part of this thing called due process. The same way a doctor has a duty to treat even the most evil of men. I don't see why ensuring a criminal defendant gets due process is less honorable in some way than racking up a million billables because some huge corp decided to put out a product they knew was potentially deadly.

And taking quotations out of context in order to ascribe meaning to them that clearly did not exist in the original is the mark of a poor lawyer who has neither the facts nor the law on his side.

Congratulations, L2L, you're living down to all those stereotypes.

In what context should I have placed a quote like ""the Chinese are, for the most part, poor dog farmers." ?

Yay for moral relativism . . . :-(

I bet he ends up at Williams & Connolly. They have a small sports law practice besides, of course, their reknowned criminal practice. And they certainly won't shy from getting scrappy with ol' Vick.

I was only pointing out how millions of dogs are tortured to death every day in China, and hundreds of millions of chicken, cattle and sheep are slaughtered every day in the US.

This is the problem with the perspective of ATL posters. You don't really have any clue what goes on in the real world. Another example is your incessant whining over making $145,000 instead of $160,000. The vast majority of lawyers, people like me, barely make enough to pay off their student loans. You people are oblivious.

How can we be elite if we were in the real world, rubbing elbows with the plebs?

Any other observations, Captain Obvious?

In the context it was originally used, in listing the distinguishing facts between Vick and the Chinese actually mistreating the dogs; i.e. the dog farmers. In no way could anyone with even a tenuous grasp of the English language read that sentence, in context, to refer to all Chinese, all citizens of the PRC, or anything other than "those Chinese who engage in the dog farming described at the article you linked."

If you want to criticize the perspective of posters here, fine. You succeeded several posts ago, and now you're beating a dead horse. With respect to the livestock slaughtered in the US, there are, again, distinguishing facts including and not limited to what we as a society tolerate to produce meat as a foodstuff.

But given a choice between being accused by you of not having any clue about what goes on in the real world and making terrible, terrible arguments justifying the elitism against you, specifically, I'll take the former.

I also note, for completeness, your assumption that the posters complaining of Vick's behavior are the same who complain about the salary increases, as well as your assumption that the complaints are of equal seriousness and vehemence. I see no reason for you to have made those assumptions, and you've provided none.

But please, continue, little martyr. You obviously love to read yourself whine.

I hear Marjorie Knoller has time on her hands . . .

Also Marjorie Knoller has a dog on her _________

Can't believe no one has made this ridiculous joke yet. And I can't believe that I actually am about to. But I would say that this is more of a "dog collar" case than a "white collar" one.

"the Chinese are, for the most part, poor dog farmers. . . . In no way could anyone with even a tenuous grasp of the English language read that sentence, in context, to refer to all Chinese."

In the future, just try not to put your foot in your mouth.

Praise WH if they take this case. Defending defendants who may steal money ok but defending pro athlete not? Get real.

Thanks for the lecture on Due Process you numb-nuts; no shit every defendant deserves a defense. The point many of us are making is that you can chose not to represent those who would electrocute a dog. It is a moral distinction and a moral choice. I used the"M" word - don't freak out. There is such a thing as right and wrong; you do have free will.

Hey, I'm all for my salary-market-lagging firm representing this numb-nuts if it means they will get the $$ to bump my salary... Otherwise, f*** the guy - he's a creep!

:-)

I hope Vick goes down. He should pick on someone his own size (or bigger), not defenseless dogs who were probably still loyal and loved him right up to the moment he killed them. This stuff really pisses me off.

(And, L2L, don't get me started on how I really, truly abhor the Chinese government for any number of reasons. However, the point here is that Vick is being tried in the U.S. under U.S. law. So, it would be pretty irrelevant and pointless to start citing Chinese practices as some sort of excuse. This is not a case depending on preemtory norms or jus cogens being tried before an international tribunal. If yes, your argument that animal abuse is widely practiced in other countries would be applicable to defeat any jus cogens claim against the practice. But this is a U.S. case, so what they do in other countries is entirely irrelevant. Hence why the Judge won't be considering how European countries have civility and pain standards for their farm animals, making for a much more humane practice than what is done in the U.S.)

I definitely will not be applying to Wilmer Hale or W&C after my clerkship if they take Vick. No one is denying him due process -- but let him find some other lawyer.

7:07 -- I guess the news that W&C defended the Ringling Bro's against a PETA suit is off your moral radar screen . . .

AS long as their interns aren't involved, he should be fine

Please. Can't we get back to the jokes?

Maybe Howard Shapiro now that he's done with the Oxycontin stuff.

Hi all,

I wanted to let you know about the launch of Sunday LLC, a revolutionary time-saving service providing enhanced mobility for its members.

Sunday provides customized personal assistance (via email and telephone) whereby you can ask dedicated agents to help with such tasks such as restaurant reservations, real-time internet search, and outbound calls on your behalf. The service is esp. great with a Blackberry because it goes the extra step needed to finish a task remotely.

Use the promo code "beta" for a free month trial.

Check us out at www.asksunday.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2946573

Wilmer Hale IS a dog fight these days. Perfect choice.

Hey IDIOTS.....are we living in CHINA?
VICK THINKS he does and will pay dearly in jail.....Mike Vick...A.K.A....loverboy