Should I wear a hoop skirt to OCI?

I'll post about Orlando/Central Florida (we usually get ignored in the Miami threads). My firm is paying $110,000 to first years, but it has recently raised in other cities. I'm hoping for a raise, but the market here tends to be slow when it comes to raises. Compression is another big issue here. Raises tend to be $5,000 a year at most.

If you want South, go to Houston, make 2x Nashville.

Texas isn't the south.

This is cool, but if you do a South minus ATL, it is only fair to do a North (i.e., New England), minus BOS. Last time you profiled legal markets, you snubbed New England despite several requests (and I swear it wasn't just me). I know there aren't a lot of heavy hitters in New England outside of Boston, but you'd be doing a huge service to us Yankees because it is so hard to find any info on firms up here. Of course, if people don't contribute, you would be well within your rights to snub us hereafter.

What about Charleston? Any opportunities there?

Charleston's a great city. I should totally go there.

You can include Long Island too with New England. Yeah yeah yeah, no big money etc. etc. but for what it's worth, people are miserable on Long Island. Average starting salaries are in the 50s and 60s, and excluding Nixon Peabody, nobody is even close to Manhattan.

Or, if not Long Island, how about MIDSIZE firms in NYC? The good ones, the bad ones, the salaries, what firm is doing well/bad, what may be swallowed up. Come on David!!! Like in all the articles out there, only, what 10% of lawyers are in the big firms? How about some midsize love?!?!?!?!

Montgomery Flea Market to 190k NOW!!!

Only 10% of lawyers might be in biglaw but I imagine about 90% of the readers of this blog are (or will be/want to be)

11:00: Maybe a great city, but I don't think there are any large Charleston-based firms. The biggest shops in town may be the Moore & Van Allen and Nelson Mullins offices. I don't think either of them hits 100k.

Stay away from Birmingham...hours are at or above 2000.... pay is only 95k..... and it isn't that cheap to live here

Are there any good places to litigate in Charlotte. Anywhere with good work and pay close to the NY corporate branch offices in town (like Mayer Brown, Cadwalader, etc.)?

it's kind of odd that nashville is still stuck at 100k while the city seems to be on-fire growth and prosperity-wise. does anyone have any idea when the big guns are going to initiate the raises?

St. Louis = cultural Mecca or worst city in the U.S.?

Questions about Charlotte for anyone with info?

1) What is the market pay for nationals and market for locals?

2) If one is interested in banking law, is working at a national in Charlotte a good/bad career move (noting that one does not wish to live in NY/DC sized cities)?

3) What are the local firms with strong reputations? Are any trying to compete with the nationals coming to town?

4) I'm in the process of signing up for OCI, any Charlotte recommendations woudl be great. My wife and I like the city and we'd like to see if we want to be there permanently.

11:16 - but are there really any "big guns" in Nashville? I may be wrong, but I thought the biggest were still only regional players -- Bass Berry, Baker Donelson, Frost Brown Todd.

On-fire city growth doesn't lead to increased salaries if there is an ample supply of new laywers (i.e., Vanderbilt) and if people want to go there anyway.

Portsmouth to 80k. Let's show Norfolk who the real leader of the 7 Cities is.

St. Louis = cultural Mecca or worst city in the U.S.?

PLEASE DO PHOENIX

Richmond is a really nice city. It's relatively cheap, scenic, and there's actually a lot going on. There are 4 attractive BigLaw firms (McGuire Woods, Williams Mullen, Troutman Sanders, Hunton & Williams) and a few pretty nice medium-sized firms. Plus, DC and Charlottesville are less than 2 hours a way if you want to get out of town for the weekend. I moved to Richmond for a one-year clerkship and have been surprised by how much I've liked living here.

11:22:

Market is around 145; local ranges from low 100s to 135 i think. just go to NALP for specifics.

if you want banking, charlotte is good. i imagine at the top firms there, though, you will be working a lot of hours, close to nyc hours (maybe 100-200 less).

local firms include parker poe, robinson, a couple others. just look at nalp. there are the national firms and about 5 top tier local firms.

I second 11:22's request for Charlotte info. Please help.

Lat, the entire city of Minneapolis is grieving and needs a pick-me-up. This is where you come in. Minneapolis market thread!

11:28 - i don't know why you like richmond. i thought the social scene was horrible, locals dislike outsiders. there is wide variance among the firms you mentioned. huntin and gruntin is a sweat shop; mcquirewoods is decent but not as prestigious, and the other two are nothing special. AND charlotte pays better.

you'll be stuck in structured finance in Charlotte.

Richmond: Could someone compare Hunton & Williams and McGuireWoods? And how about Troutman Sanders's Richmond office? Thanks.

True Houston is not SEC South, but neither is Florida in my opinion (NYCers and others relocate there, not to mention the ridiculous amount of people driving white crown vics). Further, an extra $80,000 will do a lot for your imagination and/or travel budget.

Williams Mullen is NOT biglaw. They work you like biglaw, though.

11:16 AM- St. Louis is a nice town. It won't have "tons of culture" but it does have quite a bit. In the midwest you really won't find a better blend of city/culture/lifestyle than St. Louis. Its a great place to live. Now I've only lived in St Louis, Chicago, and Memphis, but from my experience it's a great place.

Norfolk is going to $160K supposedly.

11:32-- I guess I've had a different experience than you. When did you last live in Richmond? It seems like in the last year or two, a lot of young people have moved here from New York and DC, so I never sensed the local vs. outsider tension that you mention. Also, it's very easy meeting other young professionals.

As for the firms here, they're certainly not Weil or Cravath or Skadden, but I don't think that anyone moves down here thinking that they'll be Top 10ing it.

11:16 - Nashville is now at $110. Bass raised earlier this summer and everyone else is scurrying around deciding what to do. I'm sure Baker Donelson and the other serious players in town will match.

The real question is whether Bass will raise again in response to this week's shift in Atlanta...

Memphis hasn't been talked about much on this tread. Its a great town (or at least parts of it are). Not too much biglaw there (Baker Donelson, ect.) but does anyone know about hours/compensation in Memphis?

Portsmouth, Portsmouth, Portsmouth! Can we please discuss the most depressed southern legal market and start working to push salaries upward? It's ridiculous that I subsist on nothing but ham sandwiches-- Glad to see others are really getting behind us, thanks Jeffrey.

No one works hard in New Orleans. And everyone makes partner. And the PPP's show it. Discuss.

Anybody have any info on New Orleans?

St. Louis is a great place to live. It's inexpensive and has a fair amount of cultural stuff to do. My one complaint is that there aren't too many good restaurants.

In terms of law firm life, the firms in St. Louis are hyper-paranoid about associates running off to bigger cities like Chicago or DC. If you're interested in the St. Louis legal scene, you really have to demonstrate that you're committed to staying in the area for the long haul.

Bryan Cave and Sonnenschein are probably the biggest names in town, but Husch & Eppenberger and Thompson Coburn are also worth mentioning.

Nice Picture.

St. Louis is great for Italian food though, it doesn't get much better than the Hill. Another nice, but realitively local firm, is Blackwell Sanders. All good people, and pretty laid back firm. Plus St. Louis is a great sports town. What is the current compensation level in St. Louis?

I'm looking for tax stuff in Charlotte. Or really anywhere in North Carolina. NYU LLM and Tax Court clerkship under the belt. Help me out.

Can a W&M student (in top quarter) get to NYC? What about Houston? I don't want to get stuck in the south --- or DC.

does anyone have any experience coming from an northeastern school (say, nyu/cls) to a place like nashville? assume the move wouldn't be arbitrary (some local ties).

do the firms just roll over for you, or is there some alienation effect because everyone else went to vandy/duke/uva?

St Louis sucks, in every way imaginable. Italian food? Please NYC, Chicago, SF, DC, christ, ATL all have better Italian.

11:08(2)

This might be the best comment I've ever seen on ATL. It's certainly the only one I have ever felt the need to compliment.

Look, Portsmouth needs some love here. I think they're on the verge of raising to $80k and a Taylor Pork Roll, but they need a push in the right direction. That's what ATL is all about. Let's get it going!

Starting salary in St. Louis is 110K.

Good firms in New Orleans:

Adams & Reese (as close to Big Law as you'll get)
McGlinchey Stafford
Liskow & Lewis
Stone Pigman
Phelps Dunbar
Jones Walker
Correro Fishman

I don't know why I'm bothering to list these, because the names won't mean anything to people not in New Orleans. The pay is horrible everywhere. But it's New Orleans. If you're there, you're not there for the pay.

Mitch McDeere knows a great tax firm in Memphis.....

Nashville- Where everybody wants to be. Has everything that ATL has minus Baseball, only its much nicer. Nearly everything about Nash is better than Birmingham.
Hell, I'd work there for free.

I agree with 12:24. Bendini, Lambert & Locke is definitely the place to be for tax. Perks are good, and I hear they pay 20% above market for the right candidate. They may make outlandish demands of their associates from time to time, but, hey, what big-time firm doesn't?

if you live in Richmond making $140K or so as a 20something, then you are living large. Lots of good looking girls in that town and 90 minutes to DC and 90 minutes to the beach. Not a bad town if you can avoid the rednecks.

The VCU and UR girls are pretty tight and I can only imagine how far $140k would go in this town. McGuire is supposed to have a pretty environmental lit practice in Richmond. The work here probably isn't as top-notch as in NY or DC, but it has got to be more varied than the structure fin in Charlotte. If you're considering Charlotte, Nashville, etc., I'd definitely give Richmond a serious look.

Dont' be misled. Not many firms pay $110K in St. Louis.

For those looking for info on Charlotte:

Market is $130/145k. Key question is compression. Some start at $145 but go down, or only increase $2,500. Some firms have dual pay $130k for 1900 hrs and proper salary jumps as you go up a leel, or $145k if you bill 2100. Gives you the choice how much of a rock star you want to be.

Top firms bill between 1800-2200 minimum. There are at least 2 if not 3 sweat shops.

There is more to Charlotte than securitization, and the banking law is very developed and national. BUT there is also a healthy mix of international business, and enough local business to make life interesting. There are over 250 German companies located in Charlotte region, over 130 English companies so if you do your research you will see it is more than BoA's securities work.

Nationals can be good, but look out for sweat shops. Some decent regional and local firms.

For OCI/Interviewing direct I would try Parker Poe, Kennedy Covington, Moore Van Allen, Alston & Bird and Katten Muchin. Real Estate and Banking law are the real powers in the city.

To the poster about Charleston.

NRMS is at $110 in SC (with the $130K number in CLT ant ATL) . They seem to think they should maintain a $20K gap b/t SC and ATL and CLT, based on the last few raises. If they move in CLT or ATL, one could expect $125K in SC. Everyone else in SC is still at $85-100 so you should probably go to NMRS in SC or to CLT or ATL, if you're interested in the region, because all the other firms are poor and suck.

12:10 - Do you know what the pay scale is for the mentioned NOLA firms?

Who are the top (i.e., highest paying) firms in Nashville and how bad is the compression?

To the poster asking about Memphis:

It is not a city to move to in order to practice law unless you are from there are your wife makes you move back there. The legal opportunities are pretty weak and firms have a reputation for falling apart. The salary is low and the Memphis Bar is pretty weak. The best firm in Memphis (Butler Snow) is the Memphis office of a Jackson, MS firm (if that tells you anything).

To the poster asking about Memphis:

It is not a city to move to in order to practice law unless you are from there or your wife makes you move back there. The legal opportunities are pretty weak and firms have a reputation for falling apart. The salary is low and the Memphis Bar is pretty weak. The best firm in Memphis (Butler Snow) is the Memphis office of a Jackson, MS firm (if that tells you anything).

1:13, not really. But I can quote you NALP figures:

Adams & Reese - $90,000 (up from $83,000 last year)
Barrasso Usdin - $90,000
Fisher & Phillips - $90,000 (up from $80,000 last year)
Jones Walker - $90,000 (and same last year)
Liskow & Lewis - $87,000
McGlinchey - $90,000 (up from $84,500)
Proskauer Rose - $95,000 (up from $86,000)

So it appears the market has crystalized at $90k with the sole biglaw satellite office paying a premium. Bonuses I assume are in the $5k range.

12:05 -- you didn't mind getting stuck in Williamsburg for 3 yrs?

Just kidding, I'm a W&L grad and experienced 3 years in Lexington. Check out the NY recruiting thread, but it might be hard. Even though W&L was a top 20 school at the time I was there, the problem in cities like NY, LA, and Boston was a lack of name recognition for the Virginia schools (other than, of course, Virginia). It was possible to get a job in those cities coming out of W&L if you were in the very top of the class, but hardly a piece of cake. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone outside of Virginia has said "didn't you go to Washington & Mary?" or "William and Lee?" Outside of Virginia, where people have moved past colonial times, the names just don't carry as much weight as much lower ranked, bigger schools.

I don't really know about Houston. I hear that the top Texas firms are a lot pickier than most people would assume, but I would think Houston Biglaw would be a lot easier than NY.

12:05-

You aren't getting Biglaw in NYC, Houston, or DC. You've got a great shot at Craplaw, though.

Bass Berry and Baker are the highest paying, but Baker has monthly bonuses and end of year bonuses. Waller Lansden and Boult Cummings are probably going to move soon, and once they do, it will put pressure on the boutiques to move. Frost Brown, Burr, Stites, H3GM, and few others may move soon. It really will depend alot on the other two biggies here in town (Boult and Waller). Compression sucks, too.
An above poster is right, I am billing 8-12 hours a day and some first years are being paid more at other firms. My resume has already been sent to a headhunter. I expect a mass exodus if the rest of the firms don't move, and soon.

I understand that while McGuireWoods essentially has a 2,000 hour target, that is a pretty realistic target for most departments.

Richmond housing is actually more expensive than Charlotte, but you're also very close to D.C., Charlottesville, and the beach.

11:12 - more on Birmingham.. the city is a backwater... all the hilbillies from Mississippi and Alabama come to the "big city" of Birmingham and think they have arrived at the plateau of life.

I did half a summer there and most of the associates are clueless about how shitty it is to be billing 2000+ hours a year and only making 95k. If they went to Atlanta or Charlotte they would be making 50% more money for work that is not any more complex than what they find in Birmingham.

I don't know how anyone could like Richmond. It's the most lily white conventionally southern social scene in the whole country.

Mississippi is terrrible. Tort reform killed the legal market.

2:05-- "lily white conventionally southern social scene"? What does that even mean? Cotillions every night? Confederate flag unvailings? Jello casserole?

The real problem with Richmond is the massive and ongoing influx of hipsters from the northeast.

1:51 and others -- I grew up in the South, I love the South, and I hate it when the NY/DC people are condescending and rude to non-NY, DC, and Cali people on these threads. But I don't really think that some of you are being realistic about how billing rates, type of work, recruiting focus, and other factors differ between markets like Atlanta, Charlotte, and Texas versus Nashville, Birmingham, etc. It sucks that you get paid so much less money and I hope you do get a raise, but I personally think that most of the lower paying Southern firms just don't have to match national pay.

1. As these posts indicate, there aren't many branch offices of national firms driving up market rates.

2. Although I realize that this is a broad generalization, a lot of people who end up in these cities are there due to family ties or personal preferences and would NEVER consider moving to a place like NY or DC, or even Atlanta. I'm sure the partners at your firms know this and their attitude towards the people who would consider leaving to go to those markets is probably "good riddance."

3. I am fully aware that Southern firms have Ivy League and other top tier grads, but the recruiting structure followed by most of your firms is not necessarily oriented towards getting more Harvard and Yale people vs Bama and Tennessee grads. I think Vandy grads probably have the most options of all the local schools, but most of your alumni are located in Southern firms. If you leave to go to another city, your firm will just pick up another Ole Miss grad and likely won't be too worried about it.

4. Are the billing rates and PPP at your firms at all comparable with a K&S, V&E, Hunton, or a Charlotte firm like Moore & VanAllen?

The hipsters in Richmond aren't even that bad. Most of them are concentrated in the Fan, so they haven't yet caused an increase in rents elsewhere in the city. Plus, you can always move out to the counties to get away from them. On the upside, they have really improved the arts offerings on Broad and in Carytown.

PS- Jello casserole is a midwestern, rather than southern, specialty.

To the posters asking about Nashville, Memphis, Jackson, and Birmingham. See the posts about New Orleans, discussing Adams and Reese. A&R has offices in all those cities. Minimum hours per year: 1850.

2:23 - You are exactly right. Many southern markets have no need (or ability) to match national pay. However, firms in some of these markets need to be within shooting distance of Atlanta and Charlotte so the well-qualified hometown boys don't all leave town. $110 in Nashville versus $130 in Atlanta (with similar compression) is a no-brainer for most Vandy students, but with Atlanta moving to $145, that might change the dynamic a bit.

Will someone post the payscale for the Nashville large firms. I would like to see the compression.

What about bonuses?

Hunton in Richmond suuuuuuucks. I've never seen such unhappy young associates.

12:05 - The W&L guy sounds about right based on my limited experience, but don't despair. Quite a few of my classmates ended up at biglaw in NYC, with at least one at Skadden (he was top 10%).

Does anyone have any information on West Virginia in regards to pay? Place like Jackson Kelly, Steptoe Johnson? Any range for mid to large firms?

2:42 is right and the same analysis applies in South Carolina, being sandwiched between ATL and CLT. I can communte without moving, if I need to. So I better see some benjamins!

Anyone know anything about Kaufman & Canoles Norfolk?

I'd be curious to hear about the compression in Bham. My sense is that starting salary is $95K at places like Burr, Bradley Arant, Maynard Cooper, etc. But what do midlevels and senior associates make? It's been a few years since I've kept tabs on this market.

2:19 - confederate balls are not what I had in mind. Golf-attired, self-entitled jerks, who, incidentally, have no reservations about displaying conferedate paraphernalia are what I had in mind. Or do those not exist in Richmond? As for hipsters from the NE drowning "real" Richmond, I think this is a myth spawned by people in Richmond. I'm sure every hipster I know is just dying to get out of Brooklyn to go to Richmond, but they've never mentioned it to me.

Sure, self-entitled jerks exist in Richmond. And some probably outfit themselves in golf attire and wear natty seersucker suits with white bucs. But there are just as many self-entitled jerks in Brooklyn, living in Williamsburg "slumming" it by swilling PBR while they charge it to their trust fund account. The bottom line: there are jerks everywhere.

Incidentally, I would guess that most of the hipsters here have not migrated from the mean streets of Greenpoint or the LES, but probably go or went to VCU or came from smaller cities/towns in VA and the Carolinas.

I agree with 4:48. Richmond has its share of obnoxious people, as does NYC, DC, ATL, and virtually every other metropolitan area in the country.

The difference in Richmond is this: the Richmond jerks are living in massive, river-view, loft apartments in converted tobacco warehouses for $1,050 a month, wheares the NYC jerks are lucky to be living in a studio in Manhattan at that price.

How is the market in Hazard county?

Hunton Richmond is by no means a sweatshop. The hours are light.

Anyone got any info on YCR in Charleston?

4:48 - the difference being is that what you described is the norm in Richmond (with a dash of confederate regalia). It's not the norm in NYC or Chicago or SF. That was my original point: I don't know why anyone would want to live in a place where that's the norm.

4:55 - sounds enticing. Like living in Venice. Or, maybe just like living in a converted warehouse on the James. Whoohoo.

Kaufman & Canoles in Norfolk is an excellent firm with smart and down-to-earth partners and associates. Willcox & Savage, from what I hear, is also a very good place to work, and Vandeventer Black has a strong maritime practice.

6:56:

Willcox is listed in the NALP directory at 1800 hrs/$100k. I haven't been able to find anything on Kaufman or Vandeventer. Any word regarding billable hours/salary? Also, do you know if Kaufman pays the same salary for all offices (Norfolk, Wmsbg, NN, etc...)?

Unfortunately for the attys there, there is just no reason for bham to move. The only good thing about it is the low COL and the fact that you can live in a nice residential area 15 minutes from the office.

I think Bradley used to set the pace, but if a move is going to be made now I imagine it would be Balch.

I've heard of associates at Hunton Richmond billing 2,400 and still not receiving full bonuses. That place is a sweatshop and partnership prospects are extremely poor.

RE: 9:10

Bradley and Cabaniss are at 100k and leading the Birmingham firms right now, the rest of which are still at 95. Of the two, Cabaniss is defintely the place to be as Bradley is generally a sweatshop. That being said, both of those firms are dinosaurs and Balch is really the firm to watch around there imo. Lightfoot is also clearly a far superior firm, however they just seem unmotivated to grow of late and two of my personal friends have left as partners for greener pastures. I used to think that they had the potential to effectively take over the high-end Birmingham litigation market, but they are just not locally juiced enough in comparison. My fiance works for Balch and enjoys it (no hard minimum hours, 2000hr bonus+merit bonus, but decent amount of non-bill bitch work).

10:59am:
Texas is definitely in the South. The only people who don't think Texas is in the South are people who live in Texas and mistakely believe the state is more progressive than the rest of the South. It's not.

Where is a thread for the Midwest? For cities/states that have legal markets but are not Chicago like St. Louis, Cleveland, and Indiana.

Bendini, Lambert and Locke for tax... thanks for the chuckle

Are any Jackson, MS firms known sweatshops? I've sort of heard this about Phelps.

Hunton & Williams-Richmond isn't a sweatshop. At least not in the practice areas I'm familiar with. Don't know what the deal was with the 2400-hour associate, but hours aren't the only thing that matters. Hitting 2400 no more guarantees you'll get a bonus than not hitting 2000 guarantees you won't get one.

Also, partnership prospects are not really bad, but I suppose it does depend on the practice area. High-performing associates in non-strategic or lagging areas can get passed over, but since H&W doesn't have an "up or out" policy, many stick around and eventually make it.

I think 2:23 said it best- you're only seriously interested in this market if you have ties of some sort to the region. I wouldn't think of living anywhere else. I lived on the "Gold Coast" of Connecticut/NYC for a few years, and have ties to Houston, interviewed with "Biglaw" there. Just wasn't for me. I know I'll make less money both as associate & partner, but in my view the satisfaction from being in place where I want to be outweights that consideration. I know it sounds naive to those with a Biglaw fetish, but the lawyers I've worked with in the Southeast tend still tend to value professionalism, honor, integrity over boosting PPP.

In my view, the SEC is a win-win: you can still have a great life, make pretty good money, and have a fairly sophisticated practice. I think most people "outside" the South misunderstand that point. I clerked in NOLA & was shocked at the high quality deals being done. Sure the deal flow is not as high as even Houston, but its enough. Biglawer folks - enjoy your 160,000, but leave us southerners alone!

Gotta love the dirrrrrrrrty south!

10:44, I agree, Balch seems to be the firm "on the move" (as much as any bham based firm would be).

I thought Balch did the 95+5 like Bradley? I know BARW's 100k includes the 5k signing, does b&b not have this as well?

my girlfriend is a med student at wake forest in north carolina. recently i learned it is a b***h to get a residency in NYC if you go to school outside of the region... so my dreams of ny biglaw are dying. i have accepted the fact that i may be stuck somewhere near north carolina to practice law. with this in mind, is charlotte far and away the market leader in the south atlantic? (other than that sh*thole atlanta). of course i will still try for duke but really what's the point if i have to work in north carolina among people who couldn't make it anywhere else and pretend to be important. god being a dink is going to be worse than i thought... any suggestions on cities/firms for a big dreamer that may be stuck in the tarheel state?

i should post an addendum to my last comment (8:07). i realize there are very bright people who choose to live and work in north carolina. my post was not meant to insult the great state of north carolina. i'm from arkansas/oklahoma border for god's sake, i have nothing to brag about when it comes to sophistication. i am still coming to grips with not being able to live in the big apple... sorry for any offense, now please answer my question.

Whoever's posting that Hunton isn't a sweatshop is either (1) full of shit or (2) on the recruiting committee.

Or both. I believe being (1) is a prerequisite for getting on (2).

Birmingham compression............I'm pretty sure that there is no more than a $5,000 raise each year. So a 6th year associate's salary at one of the bigger firms would be around $125,000.

To the person asking if southern firms will "roll over" for people from nyu/cls: generally no. Maybe Dallas or Atlanta, but definitely NOT Charleston, Nashville, etc. Those markets are tough - if not impossible - for someone without ties... particularly Charleston.

(8:11): Its well known among North Carolinians (including firm hiring-types) that everyone who goes to Duke leaves the state, so don't worry that going to Duke will meant that you have to work among us insufferable Charlotte types. That being said, you might consider trying to open your mind to Charlotte a little bit if you can swing a gig at a national firm--$145K, relatively low hours, sophisticated work, good social opportunities around town, and low cost of living. Most of us chose to be here and could have made it anywhere else, I believe.

As for New Orleans firms, you forgot top tier firms such as Gordon Arata, Lemle and Kelleher, and Frilot Partridge. Adams and Reese is a sweat shop by NOLA standards. Bottom line: N.O. is a great place to work (billable hours are generally lower than in other Southern states) and the pay is more than enough to have an extremely high standard of living in the city.

RE: 10:21

Actually compression can be FAR worse than that. You think BigTx compression is bad but at Burr Forman, the lockstep is 95, 97, 100, 102! They also don't have a lockstep bonus system and minimum "goal" is 2050! What a rip off.

RE: 12:04

I thought that Bradley was at 100+5k bonus while Balch was at 95+5k. I could be wrong about that though as I don't know anyone who actually accepted at Bradley (for good reason).

10:44pm, 12:04am : Your statement that Cabaniss (a clear second/third tier B'ham firm) is "the place to be" compared to Bradley discredits your entire post. I summered in Birmingham, and every "star" recruit in my class (to the extent they were only looking in Bham) was torn between Bradley, Maynard, and Lightfoot. Burr and Balch were the fall-backs, and Cabaniss wasn't even in the conversation. If you have some info on how Balch is now "on the move," and not just Alabama Power's law firm, I'd love to hear it (the last I'd heard, they lost the the entire Huntsville and 1/4 of ATL offices, and managing partner left for an in-house gig). As your first post suggested, Lightfoot (who is "clearly superior") is losing people in droves and is having trouble getting/keeping work. I've never heard anyone mention Bradley as a "sweatshop," so anything you have on that would also be enlightening...sounds like you didn't get an offer from BARW.

I am guessing that you are not from either Texas or the South, which is certainly not intended to be an insult, but your attempt to clear up the Texas/South distinction is a bit confused. First, Texans don't distinguish themselves from Southerners because Texans fancy themselves as being more progressive than the rest of the South. Ummmm, have you heard of George W. Bush? Tom DeLay? Alberto Gonzales? I wish that Texas were more progressive than "the rest of the South" (since I live here), but the reason that most Texans don't consider Texas to be part of the South is that Texas has a very different character from Southern states, Texans are fiercely independent, and in case you haven't noticed, many Texans would be happy if Texas weren't even considered to be part of the U.S. Unfortunately, Texas lost that battle a couple of times many years ago, so now we have to settle for thinking that Texas is bigger and better than everything else, including, but not limited to, the South.

As for the Southern side of the equation, residents of the "deep South" don't consider Texas, Florida, and even places like North Carolina and Virginia to be part of the South. Therefore, I'm sure that most Southerners take no offense to Texans not considering themselves to be Southerners. Rather, they would probably feel sorry for any misguided Texans who mistakenly think that they are actually Southerners.

8/3 11:44 - Norfolk at 160k? It isn't even at 140k. It is still at 100k.

More info on Nashville please, particularly from anyone who's moved or thought about moving from DC BigFirm

For NOLA - beware of the top firms which are litigation sweatshops - lockstep raises from a 90K start, bonuses below $2,000 for first couple of years, and budgets of 2000 rising to 2100 in second year out.

Also, post Katrina the salaries do not go as far as they used to if you are trying to support a family (higher property tax, higher insurance premiums, higher energy costs).

Of course if you are billing 2100 hours (no billing for pro bono, client development, CLE or attending conferences at some of these firms) then you don't really have time to have fun anyway...

I didn't mean to imply that all the top firms here are sweatshops - many aren't, but if you are looking for less hours for less pay make sure you ask what the minimum billable requirements are.

I would guess most attorneys in Birmingham and the rest of the South do not check ATL like NYC and LA attorneys do. In any event, there are a few choices if you are looking to work in BHM. Cabaniss has been considered a firm on the decline for the last 8 years or so although its alumni have started several good firms. If you get an offer at BARW, Maynard, Lighfoot, then take it, but know that each is so different.
BARW is more formal, does great corporate, real estate and tax (especially SALT) work and does, indeed, work you like any big firm would; it also has a good litigation group.
Maynard is more collegial, but “cheap”, and has been considered the “emerging firm” for some time. It has hired a lot of associates in the past several years and despite the fact everyone there is friendly, at some point the firm has to let people go; not everyone can make partner (which most BHM firms used to do if you stayed for 8 years or so). Maynard has a good securities, private equity (as far as BHM law firms go ), appellate and general litigation practices.
Lightfoort is a litigation only boutique and does the cutting edge litigation work in BHM. It is a really sweaty place to work and I know several associates have left in the past few years because of the workload; however, like anywhere else, other associates loved the place.
Balch and Burr are good firms. At this time I would rather work for Balch, which is becoming a better firm that is less dependent on Alabama Power (at least with respect to the BHM office) whereas, I hear people leave Burr all the time and there is not great morale there at the moment. Balch has a good corporate department, and real good environmental and banking law practices. I did hear that Balch and Burr’s partners make less than the aforementioned BHM firms.
Others: Christian and Small (good litigation practice); Johnson Barton; Baker Donaldson (which is a great Memphis-based firm, at least in Memphis); Sirote; Walston Wells (good transactional group).

What can a partner in a market like Charleston, B'ham, Nashville expect to make?

Partners in Charleston make between $10 and $15 per hour. You'll do better if you put on your Brown's and start working for UPS.

Associates in SC get three beans and a cup of dirt at the end of each month.

Don't let your wife drag you to Charleston because of "all the pretty houses". You'll be living in a trailer park in Summerville, commuting 1.5 hours each way as you bring home your $65K per year in a market with a cost of living index of like 2.5. But your wife can go tour the city on tuesdays!!!

Love the speculation running around this site, so here's my personal experience in Richmond:

HUNTON: Hunton is the largest and best firm in Richmond in terms of BIGLAW. And, contrary to the anecdotal evidence on this site, it isn't a sweatshop throughout. It definitely is true that some of groups bill 2400 hours (or more?), which sucks for them. But most associates bill around 2000-2100, which should be expected at any large firm paying $145K+. For those reasons, it's wise to be a summer associate there and figure out which groups to avoid. The firm pays a very good salary for a low COL city. Bonuses are not great, and for that reason a lot of people don't kill themselves to do more than 2200 hours unless they have to. And yes, I used to work there and have personal knowledge.

MCGUIRE: McGuire Woods is the second best firm in town. In particular, they have a strong commercial litigation practice, but transaction practice is rather weak. It's not quite the national power that Hunton is becoming, but it's a very respected firm.

TROUTMAN: Troutman is not good in Richmond. Its Atlanta office may be strong (I don't know), but the Richmond office associates are unhappy and there seems to be an unusual amount of associate lateral movement to H&W and MW. It used to be an average local business firm called Mays and Valentine. Then it was acquired by Troutman and has truly become a satellite office of an Atlanta firm. Purely hearsay: I heard that Atlanta demoted several equity partners in Richmond several years after the merger. That sucks.

WILLIAM MULLEN: I agree with prior poster that Williams Mullen is NOT biglaw. It's a regional firm, but it's also the firm for people who couldn't get jobs at Hunton or McGuire (obviously there are exceptions). From what friends who worked there told me, the firm also puts an unusual amount of pressure on young associates to build books of business. Finally, this may have changed but I don't think they match salary at H&W and MW.

RICHMOND OVERALL: It still has its fair share of confederate types, but it's a great city. Definitely a "southern" place, but I don't think there's a real local-transplant divide anymore unless you're trying to join the country club. Particularly in the law firms, they value top ten law degrees over last names. UVA Law clearly dominates, but Univ of Richmond grads are everywhere and do well too. Partnership chances at all Richmond firms are better than BIGLAW in NYC or DC.

NASHVILLE

I hear that firms that are moving to 110K for 1st years are contemplating $2,000 increases for each subsequent year, e.g. a 6th year would make 122K. Does anyone have info to the contrary?

In any case, 110K goes pretty far in Nashville. There is no state or local income tax, and you can find a great house within 15 minutes from downtown for around $200/sq.ft.

any info on nashville compression?

Anyone on this site have any info on the hours/culture of the main Nashville firms (Bass, Baker, Boult, & Waller)?