I'm surprised Howrey is really this far down. They have a very well regarded antitrust group.

Howrey has a top antitrust group a top IP litigation group. However, their new compensation structure will likely stink.

what new compensation structure?

Howrey seems like an intense place. I remember in law school the "Boot camp" concept and it I saw some good students sign up and go there.

Seems like a great place if you really love antitrust law and were just all about the law. Seems like not so great a place if you have more mixed feelings on the law (which at least from my experience, encompasses most young lawyers)

I thought Lat was taking the day off?

Anyone familiar with the 'new' ReedSmith (the top-15 International law firm) Chicago office?

Howrey FYI: There program is only 6 weeks long, but you get paid for 8 weeks (2 week vacation anyone?). Also, if you accept your permanent offer before Oct 1 of the following year, you get a 10K signing bonus, plus they will give you an interest free loan for 3L tuition. Plus, you get a 10K bar stipend (on top of, and not taken out of your paycheck ever) in June of the year you take the bar. Is there a better summer offer anywhere else?

10:15 am - the new compensation structure that leaves many third years making less than first years because the firm doesn't have enough work to give them to reach the hour mark where they become eligible for the salary "bump". That new compensation structure.

Anyone familiar with the Houston office of Howrey?

10:15 and 10:29 have to be affiliated with Howrey. There's simply no other explanation.

The new associate compensation system is a purposefully incomprehensible attempt to avoid the lockstep salary structure of pretty much every top firm, while attempting to appear "cutting edge." Attempt failed.

I just traveled on a plane and by chance was next to an IP associate at Howrey. He claimed to absolutely love his job. Great fringe benefits and no pressure re: vacation.

Just so you know I work in BigLaw Houston, but now Howrey.

Do other of these firms avoid lockstep salary? I heard a rumor that Crowell & Moring has some sort of merit-based system. What does that mean in practice? And how are the bonuses?

I was also told by Howrey associates (houston office) that they also love their jobs and most associates are not worried about the new salary structure. Propaganda maybe?

It was my understanding that Houston Howrey associates are required to travel by horse and carriage. Another misconception shattered.

10:32 - You obviously don't work here. Or you really suck. Associates here are slammed with work. Besides, the details of the compensation plan aren't out. The only way a 3rd yr makes less than a 1st year ... is if he's doing sub par work.

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth, on the new comp. plan.
- It's just going to front-load our bonuses (or part of them) thereby removing the incentive to wait until March 1 to leave. (added career flexibility anyone?)
- It will compensate super-stars above market.
- Most people will be about where they were before, at the lockstep number or 15k above it.
- Under performers will be compensated below market and then will leave for another firm. Which I'm totally cool with.

Every Howrey office is different. The bonuses and perks at the different offices vary.

10:46 - you are the ideal Howrey "soldier." You believe everything you're told without questioning the stupidity thereof. Indeed, you are exactly the type of idiot that Howrey's policies (are designed to?) attract.

MW does not pay lockstep

Cruel & Boring.

Howrey: The details of the new comp system are not out yet, and won't take effect until 2008. This alone causes some concern, because they have made an announcement of a new scheme and then don't have any details to announce.

The people in my office are great & friendly, but I've head that not all offices are as nice. Currently the workload where I am is mixed - meaning that not everyone is busy.
If the bonuses and perks vary office to office, I'd love to hear about it. I'm in a west coast office- the only perk that I know of is free water and coffee.

MW does not pay, period. Ask a headhunter in any major city how many MW associates they've seen in the last 4 months.

Any comments on Reed Smith in general? Have the recent mergers increased its visibility in the legal world? How about Reed Smith Pittsburgh?

I wonder what will happen with MW. Fall out of the V100?

How much are they controlled by Richmond and the VA offices? The VA offices have some good clients, but seem to service an awful lot of smaller clients as well

What do you mean MW does not pay period? They raised salaries to a competitive level, i.e. the same as everyone else, across the nation, and they were one of the first firms to raise to 145 in Atlanta. I know this is only for first years because they are merit-based thereafter, but why would that get them out of the top 100? Are there other problems regarding the change in leadership that have happened?

I spent my summer at Crowell DC (lit) in 2005 but went to NY at dif firm instead. Through my limited experience I can say I met genuinely nice, smart people who were down to earth; it was a good environment, at least for summer associates.

what is the word on Hughes Hubbard NY office?

DO NOT GO TO REED SMITH. They are having a lot of trouble keeping people busy. They grew too fast. I know numerous people who are getting pushed out the door because Reed Smith just doesn't have the work. Also, look at their associate satisfaction rankings in the amlaw surveys. Those aren't a mistake

11:28 -

Didnt Reed Smith just go around acquiring mid-sized firms? I've never thought of them as one firm, but more of a patchwork.

From what I've heard through a close friend who works in Hughes Hubbard's NY Office, the place is working it's junior associates pretty hard on Vioxx litigation. This can be good or bad. It's bad because the work can be repetitive and soul-dulling, not to mention that there's a lot of it. On the plus side, however, 2nd years are taking depositions and getting pretty good experience. Nevertheless, the office has lost people because they just couldn't take another day of Vioxx litigation. There are juniors who don't do Vioxx, but they had to put up a lot of resistance, which is hard to do as a young attorney.

11:10, why are you wondering what is going to happen to MW? Is there something out there about losing clients or business. I thought they were continuing to be successful based on their V100 ranking going up a few spots each of the last few years.

10:21, as hard it seems it would be to F it up, Lat didn't trust Merck with posting the open thread.

I spent my summer at Crowell DC (lit) in 2005 but went to NY at dif firm instead. Through my limited experience I can say I met genuinely nice, smart people who were down to earth; it was a good environment, at least for summer associates.

Posted by: Anon | August 30, 2007 11:24 AM

A good environment for summer associates?!! No sh!t, what firm isn't.

Who edited the Vault report on Howrey? There is no way those positive comments came from anyone I know there.

Howrey suffers from an inordinate number of *ssholes in leadership positions. Yellers are tolerated. The firm is big and anonymous.

The new compensation hocus-pocus is not going to reward anyone who isn't a superstar. And will really hurt those who take maternity leave or have other need to be out of the office.

There are a few great partners there and I would send business to the IP group.

There is a rumor in Charlotte right now that MacGuire Woods is about to merge with/absorb Helms Mulliss & Wicker (large-ish SE regional firm). Do with that info what you will.

C&M generally is not a good place to learn out to be a lawyer. It is generally a good place to bill a lot of hours conducting large scale document reviews.

Dear 10:56:

I was in Howrey's DC office. I'm not sure what perks they have. They used to have bagels for the associates on Fridays, but that stopped a number of years ago. They used to have monthly happy hours and cut them to a few times a year. They have a retreat every three years and a firmwide CLE program every two (as I recall). Those were pretty good.

I requested conference/cle/business development funding on a number of occasions and it was never approved. I was invited to speak at an overseas event once and asked if the firm would sponsor any of my participation (the conference was paid for, but the airfare was steep). I was told they had a policy of not funding international activities. Meanwhile, the litigation group bills itself as "global litigation" and the firm was opening offices across Europe.

I actually requested an at a glance desk calendar one year and was told that I couldn't get one from the firm because it wasn't an approved supply. I think it cost $2.36. My secretary ended up giving me one as a holiday present.

I know they got a toaster in the break room this year. And yeah, they have coffee and water.

C&M generally is not a good place to learn how to be a lawyer. It is generally a good place to bill a lot of hours conducting large scale document reviews.

Let's be honest here. All the firms here are second tier in what they do.

1:08 -- I think MW would do better trying to assimilate their Chicago acquisition from a couple of years ago than taking on yet another large-ish firm. From what I've heard, there is little synergy between many of MW's offices, to put it politely.

Also, I have heard rumors that female associates at MW have a harder time than most getting taken seriously.

Could be completely off base on both points, though. Any MW people out there want to comment?

Associates are escaping Reed Smith Chicago like its the plague. There was a reason they went to Sachnoff... and Reed Smith was not it.

I echo 1:24. Are there any MW people out there who want to comment. I thought there may be a lot of them considering the Hunton bashing that went on a few days ago.

Anyone know anything about Hughes Hubbard DC. Vault and AL say they have high associate satisfiaction. Is that accurate/changing?

I have to work with MW on a regular basis with respect to one of my larger clients. They do a poor job in virtually all respects of their role in these matters and I would not recommend them in any litigation or other matter. That said, their associates do make a a heckuva lot more than I ever did as an associate (although the five year partnership track at my firm is something I don't that any one even at that stage of BigLaw could ever comprehend).

2:26 - Care to elaborate? Which office?Type of law? What are they bad at? I'm thinking about summering there.

1:25 how many have left Chicago's office? from what I have heard, the merger in London and the merger in Chicago have been very successful. #s are up, people are busy, and morale is good, at least in the offices I have visited ...

Speaking of MW Richmond only, tt has (or at least used to) have a good niche practice in automotive products liability litigation (e.g., rollovers, blown tires).

Their transactional practice is NOT good. This is not an M&A firm.

Also, they have a solid Barbri class action niche practice, except when the partner-in-charge goes renegade and accuses the firm of driving an unfair settlement.... :)

MW sold me over the river for fees in the Barbri antitrust case.

General recruiting question, what's the offer:callback ratio for vault 50 firms?

RE: 2:37

I have to work with their Richmond and Charlotte offices in the representation of a corporate client in litigation matters. As they are obviously much bigger than me, I would hesitate to say more. That said, they have a knack to immediately forget things as soon as they are told about them, and have been at least a contributing factor in the unfavorable outcome of several matters due to their general inattention to matters. I feel compelled to document all dealings with them as if they are an opposing party every time I am forced to deal with them.

11:29-- about the C&M post, I was simply acknowledging that the accuracy of my observation is limited b/c I was a summer associate and things often look better from that standpoint. Usually you can tell if the place you're working is terrible by observing others, but always have to realize that things may look rosier than they really are. I should have made that more clear by saying "at least from a summer associate's perspective. Geez!!

meant to say 12:29.

Shouldn't you get paid for not taking vacation? Or maternity leave? Or for never having a family in the first place because you worked too much to meet someone?

I have actually found most of the people at MW quite pleasant. And yes, I did used to work there. However, I would agree that acquiring another law firm may not be the best move, I mean, from what I understand the Charlotte office has too much corporate work to get done, but, nationwide, they're probably a little bloated already. I'm not so sure that acquiring another 200 or so lawyers is what they need when they could just better manage their current workload and personnel ...

... just my two cents.

... and yes, there is a substantial disconnect between the Chicago office and the other offices, I even noticed the same disconnect with the offices in Atlanta and L.A.

It seems as though the "old offices" are one firm, and everyone else is their own, separate firm ... or maybe that was just my impression

Run, run, run away from MW as fast as you can. That's what the associates in L.A. have been doing anyway. Their "new" office out here is already a sinking ship - MW took what was a well-respected stand-alone firm and has managed to scare away most of the talent.

HHR DC is an amazing, 35-person office. Happy associates, great partners, with whom you'll have lots of interaction. I summered there and LOVED it.

Reed Smith grew fast, but wisely. Posting good numbers, too.

Don't know about Chicago, but the associates I've dealt with in east coast offices seemed plenty satisfied. The firm stresses balance and has a lower billable requirement, I think, but will be on the 160 scale by the end of the year.

At least one practice group at MW Richmond seems to churn through associates like crazy.

What practice group in Richmond is that who churns through the associates?

I work at RS and find it to be a good firm. Previously I worked at a different Vault 100 firm, and my perspective at least, is that RS is much better and has a great business model.

The billable requirement is only 1800 a year and the firm now pays market (in my market). The clients are fairly sophisticated, since believe it or not a lot of big companies come out of Pittsburgh (Mellon and PNC to name two finance companies). So no complaints.

Some practice groups are better than others of course, and in some markets the firm is better positioned than others. New York is a weak link which hurts the firm nationally. London apparently is a strength.

8:20 -- I don't want to say, but if you're interviewing or summering there, ask about their turnover stats.

If you're a 1L and have more time, monitor their website and see how many associates in your practice group and city of choice come and go over the next year.

MW: 8:57 is right. Compare their associate list 6 or 12 months ago to today (if they are posted somewhere). What is the turnover lately? Very, very high, I hear, at least outside the Richmond office. Hmmm... why are they all leaving at once?

You can check the previous versions of associate lists by looking at old versions of the website on the Wayback Machine.

I second that Hughes Hubbard DC is a great place to work. Wonderful people, small office. Shorter hours than NYC.

The Hughes Hubbard New York office isn't all that bad, though. It has a more eclectic group of off-beat people than most other law firms I've seen. Not many come off as the kind who were gunners in law school. The Vioxx business is kind of pain, but it's steady work. Corporate department almost non-existent, though. No banking, no M&A. Kind of weird considering their offices are downtown and across the street from S&C.

Speaking of offices, expect to share until at least your third year. And expect to work way, way, way downtown. Offices are across the street from the Staten Island Ferry terminal.

Anyone know about the SF office of Reed Smith? I hear that they are strong in litigation, especially appellate work, since they bought a litigation boutique a few years ago. But, they pay below market and I am wondering if the strength of the litigation department is enough to go there over a Latham, OMM, Orrick, etc.

RS has a TOP notch appellate team. Overall, its a great place to work. The OAK and SF offices are filled with excellent folks.

RS SF & Oak pay nearly market ($160k for first years), however bonuses are generally much lower than higher ranked firms. Billables are very low (1800-1900) for a top paying firm in the Bay Area. Mid level associate salaries tend to be slightly below market on average.

Hughes, Hubbard and Reed New York is full of stammering fools. Ignore the practice area descriptions on the firm website--no one gets to do art law. Unless you want to be mired in the facts of one of the most depressing cases in legal history, steer clear. Also, the firm cafeteria is one of the shittiest I've ever seen--worse than many school cafeterias.

STAY AWAY from REED SMITH- they are really messed up- they no-offered summers without any warning and the home office allegedly does not know what the NY office is doing so there is likely going to be more disfunction -- they were dishonest and unfair to summers-- AVOID them if you know what is good for you!

STAY AWAY from REED SMITH- they are really messed up- they no-offered summers without any warning and the home office allegedly does not know what the NY office is doing so there is likely going to be more disfunction -- they were dishonest and unfair to summers-- AVOID them if you know what is good for you!

STAY AWAY from REED SMITH- they are really messed up- they no-offered summers without any warning and the home office allegedly does not know what the NY office is doing so there is likely going to be more disfunction -- they were dishonest and unfair to summers-- AVOID them if you know what is good for you!

STAY AWAY from REED SMITH- they are really messed up- they no-offered summers without any warning and the home office allegedly does not know what the NY office is doing so there is likely going to be more disfunction -- they were dishonest and unfair to summers-- AVOID them if you know what is good for you!