slow news day?

what the hell is this?

First of all, I just quickly read this and it makes no sense to me.

Secondly, Lat, can you please write something or at least summarize what you think is amusing or noteworthy in your posts? Do your job, dammit!

first to write 1st

Unless??? First of all constitutes first. Damn

I'm with 1:03. The link is largely incomprehensible.

This little presentation seems like a sheer waste of a billable hour to begin with, and then this is the substance of the presentation? Why even have Glamour over, if they aren't clients? (which, from Mr. Walker's comments, they must not be, or else he's the worst managing partner ever). This is truly bizarre, but I guess you get what's coming to you if you invite a fashionista over for advice on corporate attire. How the hell would she know, anyway?

Lat, it seems like anytime a layman even mentions anything law firm related, you post it. No matter how uninteresting.

the editor sounds like an idiot but i don't think that bringing in someone to talk about fashion is stupid. a lot of firms had "fashion shows" and "fashion luncheons" when they went business casual so that attorneys could see what qualifies as business casual.

What's with the verizon dial-up service ad on this page? Verizon - this is a site visited mostly by wealthy young lawyers. We've all joined 2002 and have high-speed internet. The idea with advertising in uber-segmented media is to match your product with the specific audience.

As un-PC as it may be, advising a group of lawyers not to wear dreadlocks isnt bad advice. Hell, we all know how many of us are part time Rastafarians.

Race-related faux pas are always news worthy to me, even if it's an outside vendor's political incorrectness at issue.

Agree with 1.15. Firms should do something about male attorneys who insist on wearing the khaki/polo/undershirt look every f-ing day in the summer and young paralegals who wear spaghetti strap camis mainly without the cardi. On the other hand, an afro is no one's business but the owner's.

I don't see a Verizon dial-up ad. I see a Verizon high-speed-internet ad, with bundled services (cable + phone).

1:30 - We'd be very interested in further discussing what can only be described as the earth shattering subject of your recent post. Your cutting edge approach and depth of advertising knowledge is just what we need here at VZ.

Please contact us at once!

-Pete

I agree with 1:44 that an afro, per se, is no one else's business, and the blanket prohibition of all afros would clearly be racist--the dress code equivalent of Mr. Imus's recent comments of ill-fame. Dreadlocks also do have cultural significance, even if you are not a Rastafarian. I have seen some very professional people sporting dreads, cornrows, etc. What should be prohibited is the comb-over--THAT totally looks unprofessional.

If one wanted to draft a "professional" hair dress code, it should not be prohibitive of race-particular hairstyles, but rather address neutral items such as length (though in that case you'd still need to leave room for the Sikhs, Pentecostals, etc.)

Since when is natural hair a political statement? That's like telling asians that wearing black, straight hair is a political statement, offensive to coworkers, and thus they should suffer the damaging effects of bleaching and perming for the sake of others. Why are people so retarded?

who's the chick with the boobs in the picture? Is that the chick from ally McBeal?

My bad. I saw the price and assumed it was dial up. Verizon, please forgive me.

when i'm named managing partner at cleary gottlieb, I will require all associates to shave their hair to the scalp and dress in standard issue orange jumpsuits.

2:20(2): Yes, Lisa Nicole Carson, who played Renee on Ally McBeal.

Thanks for the news, David. I just canceled my Glamour subscription. Unlike the first few commenters, I fully understood your post and appreciated it. I think your readership isn't as bright as it once was, by the way.

My Native friend proudly wears his mohawk to work.

"My bad. I saw the price and assumed it was dial up. Verizon, please forgive me."

Is this some sort of subtle attempt at Verizon trolling?

Shrewd, Verizon. Shrewd.

Why are you giving Lat such crap for posting this? Among the content I expect to see on this site is news about faux paus in the legal world. Inviting the Glamour editor over isn't newsworthy in itself, but the ignorant hairstyle comments she made and the firm's response to it certainly are.

One of the good things about ATL is that it can act as a monitoring/policing force for firms' PR matters. It's had this effect with salaries, and hopefully managing partners will know that the way they handle stupidity like the Glamour incident will be publicized and judged as well.

If we are going to talk about style in the workplace, let's talk about attire. As I woman, I know women don't like to wear hose these days, but damn, if you have ugly legs, please, please, wear hose. And if you wear a skirt to court, never go bare-legged. It looks trashy and unprofessional. And guys, please wear suits. Sport coat/blazer with slacks in the courtroom looks unprofessional and tacky. Thank you.

I thought tacky was the new chic.

i think dreadlocks are pretty unprofessional actually. are they not?

I understand why Clearly had the little show. People don't dress professionally anymore. Period. Some common offenses of the top of my head:

- Ladies, it's great that you had a "healthy" appetite in law school, but that size 8 suit just ain't fittin' like it used to. You know the offenders. The skirt should not look like one that belongs to a hooker. I should not see dimpling. And the jacket was indeed intended to button. Clients aren't paying $500 an hour to see your cheap, small, gross clothes.

- Enough with the head smell. Gross! Do whatever you want with them locks, but please . . . let's keep the whole place from smelling like a video game store. If that means sacrifing your beloved dreds, then so be it. What you don't realize is that when you come in the room, the head smell comes with you!

Get over it! I'm a white woman with naturally nasty hair. Every morning, I spend at least an hour washing, conditioning, round-brushing and flat ironing my hair. If I didn't, my hair would look frizzy and hippie-tastic. Unprofessional. Period. I don't get to show up to work looking like I just jumped off the Dancing Bears Bus and neither do you.

4:42, I'm sorry you have hair anguish, but you have written, to summarize "Professional hair is white hair." If you work in BigLaw, you make enough money to get the kind of expensive hair treatment that would rectify your terrible hair problem. If you don't, everyone around you shops at Express or whatever other stores are the mall, and no one gives a crap about your nasty hair. Buy some scrunchies at Rite Aid and call it a day.

As for either dreds or afros, they take quite a bit of maintenance, you ignorant bigot.

And PS, I bet you just look like Long Island Trash with your overprocessed 1999 "Friends" hair.

Lol at the long island trash friends hair comment. You see so much of that in NY sometimes.

But seriously, if all it took was an hour with a wash, condition, blowdry and flat iron, I think most black women would just straighten their damned hair to avoid the social trouble. The problem is, it takes about 5 hours every week at a salon in additon to about 1.5 hours every morning, while submitting yourself to chemical treatments that not only burn your scalp, but cause irreparable hair loss. It's simply not worth it to anyone with half a brain, and most people will choose to wear their hair in a natural style, like an afro or dreads. If anyone would rather that black women burn off their hair and chemically burn their scalps in order to be more white in appearance, they're either outrageously ignorant or racist.

4:49 - If I were not crazy about my bride I would hunt you down and propose to you!!!

Assuming of course you are a woman

Also, aside from the ridiculous nature and effect of the necessary chemical treatments to "whiten" the hair that naturally comes out of my scalp, wouldn't it be smarter to just bill the additional 10+ hours it would take to abuse myself with those ridiculous hairstyles? Sorry, but with benefits like keeping my hair, not chemically-burning my scalp, and billing more hours, it's natural hair all the way for me. If any firm I work for objects, then I'll just sue, and live the rest of my days off of my assuredly huge settlement.

4:49 -- It's nice to see, yet again, that the only struggle worth discussing is that of the black woman. My point is that every female is forced to endure certain painful, unnatural, time consuming procedures for the sake of "professionalism."

Professionalism is a standard that is about being controlled and restricted, not "white." This means body parts hidden, hair tight and controlled, panty hose, tight shoes. I'm white and I don't meet these standard without significant effort. I'm white and I don't have "white hair." Last I checked, my only friends with fabulous, naturally straight hair were of Asian descent -- NOT WHITE, you bigot.

And while you may spend 5 hours a week at the salon, you do not wash your hair every day; a quick flat iron and you are done. (My roommate freshman year was black. She chemically straightened her hair and she did NOT spend 1.5 hours every day. Come on.)

I'm not saying you don't have a point. I'm just saying that you're not the ONLY ONE WITH A POINT . . . again.

Oh My God. Did you seriously just use your freshman year roommate as the standard against which all black women are to be compared? But you claim to not be racist? And did you seriously also just say "you do not wash your hair every day"? Because you know what all black women, with our myriad hair textures do and do not do every day? I will tell you that you are not only an idiot, but you are just plain wrong. Further, I can guarantee that your token black friend probably lost all of her nasty ass hair if she flat ironed it every day while that shit was dirty.

And that is all I can say to someone like you. You are way too ignorant to waste more words on. And I feel bad for the token black who was forced to live with your ignorance.

This statement -- "it takes about 5 hours every week at a salon in additon to about 1.5 hours every morning" -- implies a statement of fact. I indicated that I had met at least one person to whom this statement of fact did not apply. It wasn't my "token" example.

Keep fighting. That's fine. Everybody is a racist but you. Everyone is out to get you. You're the only one for whom life sucks.

PS, I also feel bad that your old roommate lost her nasty ass hair by flat-ironing it without a wash first. As if living with your stereotypes wasn't enough. Poor bitch.

P.S. She didn't lose her hair. It was lovely. Nice try though.

I am on the hiring committee at my firm (amlaw 50), and there is no way in hell I would vote to give an offer to a dreadlock wearing law student. Totally unprofessional. He could play in a steel drum band or sell me some dope, but not work for my law firm. Similarly, I wouldnt give an offer to a white kid with a ponytail down to his ass ...

"Professionalism is a standard that is about being controlled and restricted, not 'white.' This means body parts hidden, hair tight and controlled, panty hose, tight shoes. I'm white and I don't meet these standard without significant effort."

Did you really just write that with a straight face? Where the hell did you go to college, let alone manage to snag a law degree? Subservient to outmoded white male images of appropriate female presentation, much?

Newsflash: perhaps if you spent a little less time getting your hair blown straight in 1997 fashion and buying "tight shoes," and more time LAWYERING you might be taken more seriously as a LAWYER.

Any lawyer who has an HOUR A DAY to spend on ... defrizzing her 'do can't be too much to reckon with in the courtroom or on the other side of the deal, or, indeed, in any intellectual forum.

"Every morning, I spend at least an hour washing, conditioning, round-brushing and flat ironing my hair."

Round brushes? Flat irons?

"I am on the hiring committee at my firm (amlaw 50), and there is no way in hell I would vote to give an offer to a dreadlock wearing law student. Totally unprofessional. He could play in a steel drum band or sell me some dope, but not work for my law firm. Similarly, I wouldnt give an offer to a white kid with a ponytail down to his ass ..."

You do realize black women wear locks as well? The fact that dreadlocks made you think of a drug-selling drum player, and you're on a hiring committee, is kind of disturbing.

1. haha's first two posts are spot on.

2. w/r/t the comment on how long it takes to do hair, we can debate that all day long. The material point is that curly hair (in all races) is difficult to upkeep when straightened. Black hair is particularly difficult to straighten because the curl can be very, very tight (e.g., less than 1/8 inch).

3. not all dreadlocks are (a) smelly or (b) conjure up images of a Rastafarian. Let's put the stereotypes away.

4. I clearly don't work at 7:20's "law firm". I have dreadlocks and I love them, because they save me at least an hour, if not more, every day. I had my hair chemically straightened at one point and it fell out and I had to care for it in the night and morning. Now I wash my hair in the morning and go, and it's great. More time to bill.

5. What lawyer wears their hair for political purposes? I wear mine in dreadlocks because it is easy to care for, compared to straightening it, and it is far healthier for my hair. That makes me think the Glamour editor is ignorant and uninformed.

Who gives a shit how anyone does their hair? The only question that matters is whether you can do the work. Brilliant attorneys with ridiculous looking rat-tails (the worst hair decision I can imagine) win cases and, therefore, get clients.

I think it takes balls to look "different" in the office and balls (or courage, if you like) is a quality one looks for in a litigator. So if I'm interviewing you for a litigation position, I'm kinda impressed and more likely to recommend you if you do something that shows you're an individual with balls - including wearing dreads or looking like you just jumped off the Dancing Bears Bus

Do the NJ State Police Know that Joanne Chesimar is working as the Glamour Editor?

The idea that it's "unprofessional" for an African American person to wear their hair in a natural fashion is really just emblematic of the "white is right" unconscious bias Americans have.

And the idea that a FEMALE associate would be expected to spend more time getting ready in the morning than a MALE associate just plain pisses me off, particularly when we all are overworked, sleep deprived, and time is at a premium.

There's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig difference between dreadlocks of the Dancing Bear Bus (usually full of peanut butter, beads, and mice) and the lovely, salon-finished dreds of most African Americans. I daresay the political "don't" is the former, as when I see the latter I don't even think to call them "dredlocks" at all.

All women do have to suffer for 'professionalism' and 'beauty' but I didn't hear a word about any stereotypically white hairdos that would be unprofessional. I know a lot of men wear their hair short, but I hardly think that wearing your hair the way it comes out of your head is so awful.

Hi! I'm white. White people: figure it out. "Natural" black hair does not equate with "unstyled." It just means "not overly chemically processed/heat styled." And you must be living in some kind of sensory deprivation tank not to know that, for example, a short afro can look totally kick-ass professional.

Everybody knows how useful a big ponytail can be, for example, when you need to smuggle an exotic small monkey onto an airplane.

Oh, and I'm sorry but dredlocks smell. The little hair roots attached to the hairs that are stuck in the tangles generates a certain funk -- mmm, dead skin. I will move to get away from having to inhale someone's dreds on the subway.

Shay Shay -- "I hardly think that wearing your hair the way it comes out of your head is so awful."

Ask around and see how many of your non-black colleagues wear their hair exactly as it comes out of their head. I asked at lunch, and I didn't find a one.

I wish I didn't have to shave my legs. I wish I didn't have to shave my pits. I wish I didn't have to cut my hair and could just let it grow and grow and grow. I wish I didn't have to brush my teeth as I like that cool flavor in my mouth after a good meal. I wish I could just take a shower when I felt like it. I really don't understand why I have to hide what comes out of my body naturally. Yet the evil people at Glamour tell me that making political statements is out of fashion. Damn you, humanists! Damn you for making me hide the real me!!!

3:16 -- The editors at Glamour aren't being ridiculed for saying that someone shouldn't wear a short, "kick ass," professional afro. I totally agree. People seem to take issue with the fact that maybe, when working at a law firm, it's not appropriate to make your hair a personal billboard of anti-establishment Fight 'da Power. Did you go and take a dip in the tank?

I'm really ashamed that some of you are in the legal community. If only your clients could see your ignorant comments. I am a black female attorney with natural hair. I am quite professional. What makes me professional is not my hair but my skills, ability, and demeanor. Locs are not a nasty style, in fact a lot of maintenance goes into the care of them and they are frequently washed. For the lady who flat irons her hair everyday, your curly hair is professional. Straight hair is not the only standard of professional hairstyles. Let's open our minds, afterall we are lawyers who fight for our clients' causes daily. We should be far more progressive than this. Oh yeah, I attend court without hoisery and it has no affect on representing my client. Lawyers need to loosen up!

Lawdiva, it may not affect your client or your ability to represent your client, but it does reflect poorly on you. Every woman would prefer to go stocking-less, much like lots of dudes would prefer to go without a jacket or tie, but it's respectful to the judge and the court to dress appropriately for the occasion. Offices are now pretty much business casual all the time - is it really that big an imposition to throw on hose?

Agree with you on every other point.

I think hosiery is sexist. Is this Memoirs of a Geisha? I never wear those uncomfortable tight binding things. If I go to court I wear a pantsuit.

"Straight hair is not the only standard of professional hairstyles."

Very true.

The whole thing is so racist and sexist. Telling an African American woman she has to go and get her hair chemically processed for hours a week is ridiculous.

We don't tell bald white men that their bald, whispy-haired scalps are nasty and look "unprofessional," so get a wig, do we? No one declared that it was "unprofessional" for them to start shaving their heads clean-bald a few years ago, did we?

That's because old white men have been running the show for years.

Right on, 8:52....and wispy-haired/comb-overed scalps covered with liver spots are SO nasty and distracting. I think old, bald men SHOULD be forced to wear wigs to work. YUCK!

Ugh. No one is saying that black women have to get their hair chemically processed. Where oh where does it say that? Glamour just said perhaps a giant afro is inappropriate or using your hair to make a political statement is also inappropriate. READ PEOPLE. Let's test those first-year fact-pattern skills!

That last comment was SO stupid. Do you really think that so many people would have commented accordingly if the answer was that simple? Think you may be missing the point, 1L? Focus on issue-spotting and your grades may improve.

Yes, professionalism is a standard we all must strive toward (male/female of any race); but unless you were present during the presentation and actually saw the examples of afros and dreadlocks, how do we know how big the fro or how dirty/unkempt the dreads represented were. I was not there. I am still offended as to the insensitive comments made about a black women’s natural hair. Dreads require a lot of upkeep. I know a couple of attorney's at firms with dreads. What professional person’s dread smell? Could it be white people with dreads, as they must put all types of junk in their hair for it to dread and it does usually look unkempt. Perhaps you are standing next to a homeless person who has not washed anything on their body in a while. But Black professionals with dread rarely if ever have dirty, unkempt dreads.
And to the ignorant woman who stated no one wears there natural hair, you checked...non-black woman have straight hair, they may color it or process it and it is not a political statement deemed inappropriate for work, at least not in this presentation. Yet, we heard nothing of the white woman with pink hair (or other outrageous colors generally not considered professional), or the white woman with dreadlock as a slide in this editor’s presentation. Black woman can color or process their hair but our natural hair is a political statement? Attorneys, please let’s get evaluate the facts appropriately and let go of the defensiveness. When your blue eyed daughter is on a slide and described as an unacceptable political statement for all that is her god given beauty, then we (as black women) can listen to you rant…until then…

So, the most overworked word in the English language gets just a little more meaningless.

What is "racist?" Pretty much anything that gets a black person or a hippie upset (so, lots and lots and lots of stuff is "racist").

Now stating the obvious -- that the "Proud Nubian Queen with a 'Tude'" look might not be ideal for the workplace -- is also racist.

Waaaah! Everything is "racist." Life is so hard.

It's also racist when the sun comes up -- obviously white males want a yellow or "blond" star and racistly have oppressed brown dwarfs -- and that the ocean is blue (or "Nordic" -- dead giveaway).

Yawn. Grow up whiners.