Sigh....

K&S will likely match it exactly today.

Of course I am not alleging any anticompetitive practices (heavens, no), but the managing partners of A&B and K&S are brothers.

January 1, 2008?? Thats brutal. Talk about advance notice, that's almost half a year away.

A&B's gotta be thinking that by moving now they can dictate the new round of inevitable raises, knowing full well K&S will copy. so they move and set the terms you see.

Lets see if K&S puts its PPP to work and outdoes them (yah, right).

does this match a&b's existing Charlotte scale?

What had they been paying before?

no

K&S will inevitably follow suit. Morale is already low, and this will just deepen the despair of mid-upper level associates. Unbelievable.

I thought Charlotte was 160?

What sort of bonuses does A&B pay?

Lots of compression in all the southern markets....

Highest bonus in ATL is 12.5%, I believe. NY is market.

This makes ATL more depressing than if they had not raised.

9:59 - was that a no to the fact that this scale does not match Charlotte?

While that is pretty abyssmal, it still shames all of the Alabama firms where me and my friends work. We have the fastest growing economy in the nation, our firms are hemorraging new business because we can't keep numbers up to actually do the work, and yet 95-100k with a menial bonus and compression far worse than that is all we get.

So how much did the A&B partners actually save by not raising senior associates by the same $15k they raised junior associates? I'm guessing about $300k. Something on the order of 2 grand per equity partner. So there it is A&B senior associates -- the partners denied you that extra $5k to save themselves $2k.

yes

This should serve as notice to the law students getting ready for on campus interviews to load your schedule with more D.C., Charlotte and Texas firms and use Atlanta as a fallback. While you are the shiny new toy they desire, as you can tell from the compression, once you are there they treat you like crap.

I am still waiting on Lat's story about firms that have purportedly raised to the $145 scale, but have vast numbers of senior associates getting paid less than first years.

A&B not only pays less for senior associates in Atl than it does in its Charlotte office, it pays less in Atl than Hunton & Williams pays in Richmond freaking Virginia.

In one year Atlanta went from the undisputed capitol of the south to a compensation backwater.

Atlanta bonuses are shite. The most I heard of was about $15k.

Did Alston raise in DC? Are they paying 145 in Atlanta and DC?

that compression is worse than at my amlaw 200 midwestern firm, by about 10k at the upper end, but A&B has a much larger PPP than my firm.

It matches the Hunton & Williams scale for Atlanta exactly...likely not a coincidence...except Hunton's scale goes all the way to 8th year:

8th Year $200,000

Atlanta needs some real NY/Chicago firms (not Kasowitz/Seyfarth) to move down here and start kicking ass. That's the only way to get K&S, A&B, and the others to move.

10:11 -- boo hoo. poor y'all makin' pennies while having to live in what is surely one of the most expensive and hypercompetitive markets in the country.

wow. that raise is pathetic. Compression is worse.

a 1st year in DC can make more than a 6th year in Atl if they get a bonus

Summers -- go somewhere else

All of Biglaw is still paying a whole lot more money than strong boutique Atlanta lawfirms. Weissman Nowack, which is a big full-service real estate firm doesn't even pay their senior partners 115k salary.

Weissman Whoack?

I have no sympathy for folks in ATL. Housing is dirt cheap there.

In any event, you couldn't pay me to live in Atlanta. No character to it. No sense of community.

Now, Charlotte? I'd go there in a second. That truly is the capital of the south.

What about regional Atlanta firms like Smith Gambrell?

10:11: "where me and my friends work"?

With grammar like that you're getting overpaid as it is.

Alabama to $5.85/hr!

Do you people realize that $145 is easily twice the market in Portsmouth, even including the Taylor Pork Roll bonus?? We've gotta get this market moving upward. Please help. Lat, we need a Portsmouth spotlight post.

1. Leave the duopoly of KSAB.
2. Fly to NY.
3. Beg Skadden to come to Atlanta.
4. Don't leave with a no. Bring a sleeping bag.
5. Work your ass off (but ditch the tie). You are doing that anyway.
6. Get paid like the regional powerhouse of ... charlotte.

Airtran is having a sale. Good Luck!

The new Vault survey is out

Is it true that V&E has now announced a new bonus structure as well (as they said they would in their raise memo)? If so, please post it! Thanks.

Surely the comment on Charlotte was in jest, 10:39. Atlanta and Charlotte are two of the most boring, ersatz, cookie cutter cities in the U.S. They're filled with predictable, loafer-wearing fratrats to boot.

K&S drops in the Vault survey, bottoms out the mid-level associate survey. Not looking good for folks there.

Fratboys are anything but predictable

Is compression the difference between the pay and years out of law school?

Cooper Spong to 73K plus attorneys lunch every other Thursday w/ Rodman's BBQ, NO CHARGE.

10:45 - Taylor's Pork Roll is so second tier.

10:24 - agreed. Any idea why no big NYC firms open offices in Atlanta?

The associates are miserable because they are stuck in Atlanta!

Seriously, those salaries are more money in Atlanta than NY salaries in NY. And they work considerably less.

According to CNN Money's cost of living calculator $200K in Atlanta is the equivalent of $424K in Manhatten (that's a little higher than $285K). And a starting salary of $145K in Atlanta is absurdly higher than $160K in New York (or Boston, LA, SF, DC, Chicago for that matter).

Atlanta needs lower salaries to support a competitive cost structure. Otherwise, all of the Atlanta legal business (other than serving a local counsel in litigation) would move to NY. 10:24 and 10:45 - There is a reason Skadden isn't itching to open an Atlanta office so it can pay Atlanta senior associates more money than Alston & Bird.

10:56 -- compression is the minimizing of raises between classes of associates in order to bring up the 1st year associate salaries.

Example:
If you start off with the following:
Y1: 130,000
Y2: 140,000
Y3: 150,000
Y4: 165,000

This is an example of a raise with "low/no compression":

Y1: 145,000
Y2: 155,000
Y3: 165,000
Y4: 175,000

Whereas this would be an example of a raise with high compression:

Y1: 145,000
Y2: 150,000
Y3: 155,000
Y4: 165,000

A&B's compression, assuming no further ATL raises for the next couple years, barely keeps pace with inflation.

Atlanta inflation since June 2006: 3.16%.

A&B 'raise' from 3rd to 4th year: 3.23%.

Sweet.

10:59 and 11:01 - I think I speak for much of BigLaw Atlanta by saying people are more upset by cities like Charlotte, Houston and Dallas paying more.

The COL in those cities is about the same as Atlanta. I would not leave for NYC or DC - they do work more hours and have a MUCH higher COL. The other cities, however, are more tempting.

Does anyone know if A&B pays patent associates more, and if so how much?

Cooper Spong to 73K plus attorneys lunch every other Thursday w/ Rodman's BBQ, NO CHARGE.

10:45 - Taylor's Pork Roll is so second tier.

Everyone is talking about Charlotte being more. It's the same!

Not the same

While it's true that the COL in Charlotte is similar to ATL, Charlotte is the #2 financial district in the country (behind NY), so it only makes sense that the pay is higher. Comparing Charlotte with ATL is apples and oranges (more like grapefruit and tangerines).

11:15 - Charlotte is not nearly as compressed.

Then somebody throw out a legitimate Charlotte payscale. I find this hard to believe.

Alleging Charlotte's superiority over ATL is comical...truly.

Charolotte -- Dechert

1st $145,000 $35,000
2nd $155,000 $40,000
3rd $170,000 $45,000
4th $190,000 $50,000
5th $210,000 $55,000
6th $225,000 $60,000
7th $240,000 $65,000
8th $250,000 $70,000

Hunton & Williams -- Charlotte

1st Year $145,000
2nd Year $145,000
3rd Year $155,000
4th Year $170,000
5th Year $190,000
6th Year $210,000
7th Year $225,000
8th Year $240,000

Information from infirmation.com

10:24 -- I think that is wishful thinking. Not sure about Kasowitz, but from what I hear Seyfrath can hardly afford paying their associates their current salaries. There has been discontent in their headquarters in Chicago regarding pay for some time and the last thing they care about is their satelite office in Atl. Seyfrath is not a player in ATL (nor will they ever be), but good luck -- dont hold your breath.

Maybe K&S will move a little higher (not likely, but we can dream) and A&B will match. Their associates seem on the verge of mutiny if the new AmLaw associate satisfaction survey is any indication.

Lowest satisfaction in Atlanta, 4th lowest in AmLaw 100, 7th worst out of the 164 firms in the survey, and K&S Atlanta was the 15th most-dissatisfied office of roughly 375 individual offices listed. In the individual office category, it's at least 50% larger than the 14 offices that were more dissatisfied. So it might just be the most unhappy large office in the country.

This even though the survey was sent in the spring, before getting left behind other mid-market cities in the salary increases. Like others have said, they generally just follow whoever led, but maybe the growing unrest will make a difference.

K&S, fix compression!

1 $145,000
2 $150,000
3 $155,000
4 $160,000
5 $170,000
6 $180,000
7 $190,000

A+B Charlotte and MVA are on this scale. The national firms such as Mayer, Cadwalader, Dechert are all now on the $160,000 scale. Other local firms are paying 115-130k.

I'm not sure if it is fair to conclude that Charlotte is better than Atlanta. It's only a smaller legal market but there are a few firms that pay more than Atlanta. Most don't.

According to the CNN COL calculator, both Charlotte and Houston are less expensive than Atlanta.

A $145,000 salary in Atlanta is comparable to a $136,087 salary in Charlotte.

A $145,000 in Atlanta is comparable to a $133,012 salary in Houston.

K+S can not afford to not move to 160K. It is as simple as that. Their PR is in the toilet at EVERY law school in the South.

PS-If Coke decides to give Skadden one or two more deals like the last one they gave them, you better believe we will see Skadden Atlanta sooner rather than later.

So ATL now pays 90% of NYC the first year and 70% the 7th year. nice.

Can NYC really stay at $160K now?

11:34 -- For you, I hope that K+S moves to 160; however, they can afford NOT to move to 160 just like AB just did NOT move to 160.

The fact that Charlotte pays better bonuses and has a better cost of living says more about that being a good place to live than it does Atlanta being a bad place to live/work.

They could pay a lot more and I still would not live in Charlotte - its way too small.

I love Atlanta and I welcome the raises. $160 sounds better, but $145 works for me.

We know K&S will match. The question becomes, who WILL NOT match in Atlanta?

This is not even a raise. It is pathetic. Law students don't be fooled this is only a PR stunt by A&B.

Thanks for nothing A&B, you truly set yourself up to sit at the kids table.

145 in DC, 145 and ridiculous compression in ATL. PPP's are falling but plenty of others with similar numbers are willing to at least sit at the same table with the big boys.

MB Clt - A&B Charlotte and MBA are not on the payscale you posted above. The scale you posted is the new Atlanta A&B scale.

can someone post the $145K DC scale please?

K&S, Kilpatrick Stockton, and Troutman Sanders will all match. Some of the other shops like SAB, McKenna, and MMM might match. PoGo is on the decline and will not.

I don't think K&S and A&B are that worried about losing associates to Charlotte and Richmond (or Texas), as much as they aren't feeling the same pressure that BigTex felt from all of the "carpetbagger" firms with a strong local presence. Other than Paul Hastings, I have never really heard talk of many outsider firms in Atlanta. No offense to Atlanta associates, but if all of your big firms are home-grown, I would have to second the poster above on what that says about the potential of your legal market.

Charlotte is driven by capital markets and IP work, so that explains part of the differential there. I honestly don't know how people in Richmond are making more than other Southern markets.

K&S, Kilpatrick Stockton, and Troutman Sanders will all match. Some of the other shops like SAB, McKenna, and MMM might match. PoGo is on the decline and will not.

11:41-Your right. My point was that the price that they will pay (and are already paying whether they realize/believe/accept it or not) in damaged PR and recruiting will cost them substantially more than making a statement now and leading the market to 160K with reasonable raises.

This is not speculation. The surveys are out there and the numbers dont lie. Also, we all know law students are dumb when it comes to substantive work. But one thing they are very good at is information gathering. If K+S somehow thinks that it will just close its eyes and pretend that the trend of EXTREME dissatisfaction will somehow escape the notice of future summer classes and that law students will continue to flock to K+S Atlanta because of some perceived prestige, then they have not done there recruiting homework very well.

Paul Hastings do the right thing and just move Atlanta to your national 160k scale.

Show these others what a real law firm is.

"MB Clt - A&B Charlotte and MBA are not on the payscale you posted above. The scale you posted is the new Atlanta A&B scale."

Maybe this is because they are now on the same scale? Genius.

How can Atlanta associates expect a raise when they can't even figure out when to use "you're" and "their" versus "your" and "there."

Atlanta to $35k!

Listen we don't need or want K&S to pay 160k becuase it would look like this:

160
165
170
175
185
195
205
215

Just pay the national 145k/250k scale

One stinking firm in Atlanta has raised to $145 and we already have idiots wanting $160....

I don't work at A&B or K&S, so I just hope my firm raises, period. Forget $160.

Hellz yeah 160, don't drag us down mofo.

MB Clt - I believe you are the "genius" here smart guy. A&B Atlanta is on a DIFFERENT scale than A&B Charlotte. Get a clue.

well--a certain firm claims they are the best in Atlanta. Now is their opportunity to put up or shut up. I don't think any top 2L will fail to see through A & B's gimmick. If K&S follows suit, I imagine recruiting might suffer.

MB CLT - MVA is on the scale you posted. A&B Charlotte is on a 145 scale, but with less compression. I want to say it tops out at 210-220 or so.

Has anyone out there been recruited by K&S Charlotte? What salary scale are they going with up there? I heard rumors of 160.

I disagree with those who suggest that K&S Atlanta can't afford to go to 160. PPP were $1.3MM last year. They could go to 160, not raise rates and still clear a million PP. It's a question of priority, not ability.

Come on K&S Atlanta people, what are you hearing? Will K&S match the A&B 145 scale, go to 145 but with less compression, or shock the world and jump to 160? My money is on door number 1...

1:45--

I am hearing Door #1 -- K&S to match A&B Atlanta scale. It has been that way for years, why would they change now?

Can someone post the A&B CLT scale?

1:35

Time to get real. Do you really think that some partner is going to take a 25% pay cut (or any pay cut) to keep your easily replaceable ass around for another 2 years??? I mean all us little under-paid associates are important, but we're not that important. There's a new set of rules in the game now - its all about the bottom line.

its almost 2pm and K&S hasnt moved? Does it usually take this long?

3rd associate in Charlotte. Interviewed with KS Charlotte which is not in the 'city' by the way. They are paying on the $160k DC scale.

Alston has NOT raised in DC.

DC Vault List of Shame (still at $145,000)

59. Alston & Bird
64. Holland & Knight
65. Greenberg Traurig
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
86. McGuire Woods
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
96. Venable

1:52--

While I agree with you that K&S won't go to 160, I think your math is wrong. K&S had PPP of $1.33 mil last year, based on $582.4 mil revenue and $208 mil total income (profit). There are 125 equity partners at K&S (give or take a few). (This is all public information available on K&S website.) Assuming the same compression, an extra 15K for 175 Atlanta associates would cost $2.625 mil, or $21000 per EP. Fixing compression would cost another $10,000 per EP.

Believe me, the EPs have more than made up $31000/year in fee increases this year. Bottom line is that they could (but won't) go to 160 and fix compression without batting an eye.

2:00 -

Did I hear you say K&S Charlotte is paying on the $160k D.C. scale???

1:35 -- Not to mention the fact that partner profitability depends on most associates leaving a firm anyway. The only incentive Atlanta firms have to match the market is for recruiting purposes (i.e., do K&S and A&B want top tier grads or UGA and Mercer grads?). These firms know that all the associates who have been complaining about Atlanta pay for the past 2 months can't all pick up and move to Charlotte. They can't even pick up and move to the other local firms paying market rates -- because as far as I can tell from these threads, there aren't any.

Partners aren't worried about "doing the right thing," they're worried about how to put more money in their own pockets.

While you are somewhat correct that per partner profit requires associates not make partner, it does not improve when they leave before becoming senior associates. That's when they make the most money for the partners.

Smarter firms would incentivize staying longer, perhaps with longevity bonuses, rather than frontload associate salaries and screw senior associates through compression.

2:04 - you forgot Proskauer, Perkins Coie and Kelley Drye

Can anyone else confirm that K&S Charlotte is on the $160K DC pay scale?

2:06 -

The offer was to join them as a third year associate at a salary of $185k for the rest of this year with the possibility of bonus subject to the office's profitability.

getting 145k in Atlanta is like making 300k in NY

Also keep in mind that K&S pays an acceptance bonus (10k)

2:53 - i thought that was a barbir / bar fees / dont starve over the summer money

The K&S acceptance "bonus" is not really a bonus. After taxes, it doesn't even cover the bar exam, bar review courses, and moving expenses.

2:21 -- I agree with you, but that doesn't seem to be what most firms are doing, for whatever reason. The emphasis seems to be on getting the best "talent" in the door in the beginning, even though partners must have realized by now that their Harvard and Yale recruits are likely to be at another firm by the time they start being profitable. My guess is that firms realize that most mid- and senior-level associates are either invested in making partner at a particular firm or not. Enticing the ones who don't care about making/won't make partner to stay for 2-3 more years might help out the bottom line a little bit, but there are probably lateral candidates available to fill the gap in most markets. As a mid-level in Texas, I don't like this analysis, but I also learned a long time ago that you can't count on firms to make decisions that seem logical or compassionate.

A&B's new pay scale ignores both the compression at the higher levels and whether top tier students who want to be somewhere in the South/Texas, but are not particularly tied to Atlanta, will go to other markets because they can make more money in those markets (with a comparable cost of living). Perhaps A&B has decided that its particular client base is not really paying attention to whether its associates went to Harvard or UGA.

It's a foregone conclusion, people. K&S ain't topping A&B by one red cent.

90% of the partners have no idea what asociates make, how it compares to any other city, and they don't care to know. The firm's policy committee will approve this half-assed raise, pat themselves on the back for again allowing a lesser competitor to make decisions for them, and then the partners will go back to expressing "concern" and confusion about the fact that morale is in the dumps.

That's absolutely right, 3:16. If the partnership had some sense, it would smell blood in the water, raise salaries in ATL to the national pay scale, and make things even more unprofitable for other firms in the city over the long term by locking up the top talent that comes to Atlanta. They're right now sacrificing short term gain for long term loss; I would expect the younger partners in the office would see this and realize that they'll get the short end when this absurd policy comes home to roost in 5 or 6 years. You don't feel the profit pinch of a lack of talent immediately; it takes time, but it will come nonetheless. Not that it is shocking, as those that are in charge now are conventionally thought of as the "Greediest Generation" rather than the legitimate one that was before them.

Well, its almost 4:00 p.m and K&S hasn't raised yet. I don't remember it taking this long last go round...

3:29 -- valid point; however, if you are a new associate, receiving 160 base (which will most likely be solved via compression in later years) results in you sacrificing long term gain for short term profit.

145 in ATL is NOT 160...but it is also more than an incredible number of other markets. Instead of trying to measure your worth by what someone in Charlotte or another city makes...work hard, do good work, and stop whining.

Getting paid at the same rate as the same person in a different city and a different legal market does not reflect how good of an attorney you are.

"Blood in the water" . . . funny

Novel concept -- instead of crying, why not move to the places that pay more if you are so fixated in keeping up with the joneses.

Agree with the poster who says 145k in Atlanta is 300k (give or take) in NYC. Midlevels in NYC to 300k!

Then move to Atlanta if you think NYC is underpaid.

A&B CLT has been 145/155/165/180/
195/210/220 since April 1 of this year, rumored to increase before year end.

Does K&S CLT have an associate?

Where are are the A&B associates? They can't be happy about this.

From the Fulton County Daily Report:

“Our review of the situation in Atlanta and Houston is under way. Although we have not concluded that process, we will remain competitive for top talent in order to continue to enable the firm to serve our clients most effectively,” said Les Zuke, a spokesman for King & Spalding.

Y'all are a bunch of whiny bitches! I'd fire everyone of your sorry asses if I caught you posting on this site using office resources. Get back to work!

6:28:

Suck it! I've been screwed by the Man and I won't rest until I'm vindicated!

6:28: Start with yourself.

And learn how to spell "real." What are you, a movie lawyer?

Does anyone agree that it might be good news that K&S's "review of the situation in Atlanta and Houston [remains] underway"? It doesn't take much time or effort to simply match A&B's weak move. Is the delay possibly cause to hold out hope (or am I hoping against reality)?

From Fulton County Daily Report online, a shout-out to ATL, this very thread in fact:

"But even so, associates posting anonymously to the Above the Law blog, a gossip and news Web site about big law firms, were not happy with Alston’s pay increase. They contended that associate pay in Atlanta still lags behind that in other comparable markets, such as Houston and Dallas. A number of big firms have raised starting pay to $160,000 in their Texas offices over the past two weeks."

I liked the part of the Fulton County Daily Report article where a recruiter implied that many attorneys in B'ham, Nashville, and Chattanooga couldn't meet the hiring standards of Atlanta's elite firms. You mean Cumberland Law School isn't a top feeder school for K&S Atlanta?

We got a guy from Cumberland Law to come in and sweep our floors every Tuesday. Said that law just wasn't for him.

I as a summer associate at one of A&B or K&S. I just got an offer to return this week. Assuming K&S matches A&B and neither raise any further, then I'm extremely put off by this so-called raise. The compression is absolutely miserable.

I can say that the caliber of my summer class was far, far below what top firms in other markets had. Many summers from law schools outside the top 20, and a very good number of summers from tier 2 schools. From my perspective it feels like A&B and K&S may well be happy with less competitive law students, and therefore feel like they can get away with not raising. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of students (even top 10% types) at UGA and Emory won't have a better offer than K&S or A&B even with the horrible compression, and if A&B and K&S are happy with these students, they will surely get away with such a despicable raise.

People from the top of the class at top law schools though will be reinterviewing in droves as 3Ls, and the top 2Ls won't give A&B or K&S a glance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the current crop of mid and senior level associates have suffered from compression.

I'm just a law student, so my facts may not be perfectly accurate, but my argument's gist is dead on.

As of a few years ago, you were all on a $100,000 pay scale. Now, you're (mostly) on a $130,000 scale and soon a $145,000 scale.

So, if you were all making $100,000 only a few years ago as first years or second years, and now your raise has been proportional (or close to it) to the first years' raises, you all have had a $30-45,000 raise in the last few years just by virtue of the scale increasing.

If my facts are right, then you're all crybabies. In essence, you're bitching about "compression," but you haven't been compressed at all. In fact, you've gotten larger raises than anybody could have expected looking at those old $100,000 pay scales.

If my facts are right, your complaint is, "I've gotten a $30-45,000 raise, but so have the first years!" Ha. Talk about greedy partners not sharing the wealth...

Feel free to correct my facts and post the $100,000 scale. But, if my facts are true, then you've gotten glorious raises and should shut up accordingly.

8:45-

I hate to admit this, but you're dead on. That perspective is welcome. Laissez les bon temps roulez!

I know who you are 8:24 and we all thought you pretty much sucked.

9:17-

I call your bluff you greedy ass partner. I suppose now that the FCDR has referenced this specific thread, we should expect imposters seeking to give Merdith Hobbs alternative "happy associate" posts to quote in her next article.

Tip No. 1: Those who post on this board using a fairly unique identity (frankly, one containing a typo), might, just might, check back later to see what others are posting. Interesting to find that I had apparently posted an approving message to 8:45 (likely another greedy partner or firm PR type).

FCDR: Hear this loud and clear: The real messages on this board send a single message - Fix compression in Atlanta NOW!

The problem with compression is that mid-levels and seniors haven't gotten the same raises as first years. If a first year gets a $15,000 raise, a 3rd year will get only a $5,000 or $10,000 raise -- in fact, some second years are getting no raises. This has exacerbated an already compressed market.

And by the way, some say that $130,000 is a lot of money. Um. No. $1.3 million is a lot of money -- and that's the profits of a K&S partner. 10x a first year's salary, and frankly 7x a seventh year's salary. That's whack.

great article by Miss Hobbs, hit the exact nerve of the situation. Mid/Senior associates are bringing in the profits but see such a disparate return on their work.

Excellent points about the compression and the Hunton Charlotte scale. Hopefully it really shines a light on the situation and A&B, et al reconsider the pay SCALE and not just starting salaries.

11:10 -

Both A&B and K&S Atlanta start their patent associates at $160,000. Their scales follow either Fish & Richardson or Finnegan, but I'm not sure which. Either way, there is little compression for mid and senior levels.

which means a 7th year patent associate makes 95k more than the rest of us. 265k vs. 170k.

Another good example of the compression problem. Although traditionally there has been a gap,with the patent folks it is much wider now.

New Atlanta / A&B thread (second of the day):

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/08/atl_in_atl_alston_bird.php

Get ready for layoffs in Atlanta folks. They are going to cut head count, demand more billables, drop bonuses and raise rates. Those are the cold economic facts. (If you think they are going to take a cut in profits per partner and slip in the AMLAW100, forget it.) The only "160" number you better worry about is that your monthly billables are well above this figure. Otherwise, you're a goner. Trust me, I've been around and seen this all before.

9:27 - yeah, you all thought i sucked yet he claims to have a permanent offer? says a lot... really.

8:24 -- I hope that both A&B and K&S gave out offers this week, because otherwise your attempt at being sly was not very effective.

Although I'm sympathetic to the complaints about this raise, I hate to tell anyone who is seriously considering not taking a K&S or A&B offer and searching for a new job as a 3L that this plan could totally blow up in your face. Do you not think that the competition is going to be pretty stiff in markets like Charlotte and Houston with the new pay scales in those cities? I'm sure it will also be extremely impressive when someone asks you why you aren't going to work for the firm that you summered with and you tell them that you weren't impressed with the raise that was offered by that firm. No offense, but even in light of the recent pay raises, partners never like to hear that law students think they are the most valuable creatures on earth.

I wanted to make a few points. I am a former A&Ber from Charlotte.

1. I have never seen so many people ungrateful over a pay raise!

2. Charlotte is a unique market. As the second largest financial center in the United States, there is a wealth of sophisticated work available. Without a law school in Charlotte (until very recently), it has become very hard to recruit people to move to Charlotte. The salary differential is due to this relatively unique wrinkle. About a third of the associates in the Charlotte office work on sophisticated CMBS finance transactions. Partners are not being nice in Charlotte, they are trying to have a decent salary base to recruit experienced people from Manhattan. You couldn't do that with the prior salary scale. I suspect that increasing the Atlanta scale had as much to do with associate morale as it did with competing with the Atlanta market.

3. I really enjoyed my time at A&B. They make a very conscious effort to take care of their employees, although consistent with the general philosophy of a big firm. I left in part because I foresaw the increase in salaries as resulting in more pressure to have associates bill more hours and in making it more difficult to become partner (who wants to be a 40 year old associate?) My old Charlotte friends have confirmed that they are working crazy hours since the implementation of the salary hike. Oh yah, and only four people or so outside of Atlanta made partner last year.

My best guess is that Seyfarth will likely raise their Chicago, DC, Boston, LA/SF offices up to 160k like they currently pay NY but will likely leave Atlanta, Houston, Sacramento at 145k. I also don't think it will happen until January. Always the last to the table...

11:55: you're a dumbass. AMLAW 100 rankings are based on revenue, not on PPP.

Hey 8:24---it's already been said, so I'll just second it. It doesn't take much to figure out who you are from that post.

I sincerely hope you choose another market. Please don't darken any Atlanta doorsteps. Delta is ready when you are my friend.

Excuse me Anonymous. American Lawyer ranks law firms in all kinds of categories. The one that the big boys care about the most is their rank based on profits per partner. That's the ranking that gets discussed the most in back room meetings.

Former A&Ber, no offense, but your view of things is not totally consistent with the experience of others. I'm not surprised to hear that you had a positive experience in the Charlotte office, because somehow, the Charlotte office was able to retain a positive culture that existed prior to its merger with A&B and I think that's great. However, surely you were aware that there have been retention and personnel issues in some of the other A&B offices over the past few years, causing a lot of A&B associates to be disgruntled over the way that the firm handles things. I personally would not be posting complaints on ATL about my recent pay raise, but if this response is really that much of a surprise to you, you must be as out of it as a significant percentage of the A&B partnership.

Sunny, I can understand why the mid-levels would be unhappy.

Do you see this as causing associates to leave Atlanta for "greener" pastures?

What a bunch of whiny brats!