first

K&S is already at 160 in DC...what's A&B's excuse?

K&S may delay in order to beat A&B, but that would run counter to their track record. My bet is that they are waiting so that when a firm does top A&B in upper-level associate salary, then K&S won't look foolish re-raising.

K&S would be better served to match A&B and reinforce and extend it's longevity bonus. Everyone knows K&S is a sweatshop unparalled in the Atlanta market, so the least they could do is show some appreciation to the associates that stick it out.

Have A&B or Sutherland raised to 160 in DC?

Big question now is, what happens with the other Atlanta firms-- Troutman, Kilstock, etc-- that are still at 130?

1st year, partner track? What can that mean?

as opposed to staff attorneys

I'd guess that every first-year associate is on the partner track. Maybe they also have contract attorneys?

K&S can also follow the lead of Hunton and McGuire and claim to adopt the old-DC $145 scale, while paying significantly less than scale to almost all senior associates, including the almost 50 2nd-8th year associates that make less than 1st years. Those firms call it a "merit" system.

Do they call staff attorneys "associates"? If not, why the "partner-track" qualifier? Is there a non-partnership track? Of counsel track? Mommy track?

All signs point to a slight, and I do mean slight, raise over and above A&B. Had A&B raised $15k across the board, I think K&S would have matched that. But A&B's scale was not just stingy, it was downright stupid. Denying senior associates the same $15k raise the first years received saved the firm very little money, while making it look cheap, petty and unfair.

The amount of $ K&S is willing to spend to not appear cheap and petty isn't much, but it's more than a few $5k raises here and there. So they'll pony up a little more at the top end of the scale. But not much. Anyone expecting the old DC $145 scale will be very disappointed. My bet:

145
150
155
170
185
195
205

I agree that K&S will look folish if they wait and then don't top A&B by fairly substantial amounts.

Let's not forget: other firms have been paying 145 on a compressed scale in Atlanta since May/June. So A&B and K&S not raising until January is already ridiculous and any amount they pay over the 145 compressed scale isn't really a "raise" over and above other firms--it's a catch-up payment.

foolish, even

Anyone know if any associates have left K&S or A&B yet for greener pastures? Any already sent their resumes out?

I personally know folks at both firms who are fed up and who are setting up interviews in other cities and/or with the firms in town that pay on the 160 scale.

Where in the world is Williams & Connolly? The fucking Atlanta firms pay market in DC, and they don't?

I just got an offer to work at K&S Atlanta next fall. As a future first year, this news is most excellent.

K&S to 35K!

10:10
Look a little down the road and see how "rich" you feel as compared to your peers in other cities.

Feels great to make 145 right out of the gate, but it won't feel so great in four or five years when first years in less expensive cities where your firm has offices make substantially more than you do.

To quote Outkast: "Now go on ahead and marinate on that for a minute."

We all knew K&S would match or raise. Anyone have scoop on other shops in town? The dominoes should start falling fairly quickly I would think...

Paul Hastings is on record as matching whatever K&S does.

I would also expect Hunton to make any bump up from their already 145/200k scale.

What do you mean by "on the record"?

"on record" as discussed in the associate meeting last week.

My guess is that K&S will lay in the weeds a bit and watch the other firms in Atlanta stumble over what to do without a clear path having been laid out for them. Then I expect K&S to come out with a comp. strucutre that beats A&B's, either with higher salaries or with a higher non-lockstep or bonus program.

Why is nobody talking about the real issue here?

Do K&S associates get to keep their entire Bar/Bri settlement check??

anon 10:18,

Besides Charlotte and some of the TX cities, what are other areas of the country where the COL is less than Atlanta but latter year associates are making more money?

Not a sarcastic question. I'm genuinely curious and don't know enough about national legal markets (or have the desire to research it on my own if I can get the answer off the board).

anon 10:18,

Besides Charlotte and some of the TX cities, what are other areas of the country where the COL is less than Atlanta but latter year associates are making more money?

Not a sarcastic question. I'm genuinely curious and don't know enough about national legal markets (or have the desire to research it on my own if I can get the answer off the board).

I was thinking of Charlotte and Texas.

Of course, other places make far more, but the cost of living is higher. But even in those cities we are talking about a difference of over $400k in base alone over 6-7 years (not to mention and addition hundred grand or so in bonus differential). I don't want to stoke the stupid debate about whether the cost of living in those cities cancels this out or not. I'll just say this: If I was coming out of law school now, I wouldn't even interview in Atlanta. I'd focus on Texas and Charlotte and investigate whether (given individual goals) it made sense to go to larger, more expensive markets.

Unless you are from Georgia, why would you do otherwise?

What's the word at Kilstock, SAB, McKenna, Troutman, MMM, etc.????

Radio silence? Acknowledgement? Formal statements?

Does nobody from Hunton DC read this blog? WTF? Did it raise or not?!

seems to me that this is only a good sign. it would have been very easy for K&S to pony up and match A&B, as they have done in the past. to delay that announcement only means that they're contemplating a change, either to address compression or to go to a merit based system.

i'm just a law student (so what do i know), but i'm guessing that with a merit based system the firm would be able to up individual salaries to keep folks from leaving the atlanta market for greener ($$) pastures -- at least if it were worth it to the firm.

My money is on a merit system. This way K&S can hide in the shadows and not truly set the market.

Are A&B, Troutman and other Atlanta firms going to match K&S in DC?

What's Paul Hastings paying in ATL now? What about bonuses?

They are on the 130k/185k scale with nice bonuses.

hell I am from Georgia and am seriously thinking about Charlotte. it's not that far, after all, and I don't imagine that after I graduate I'll be seeing much of my friends and family anyway.

11:05 - Can you quantify "nice"?

30-40k

Aside from the two small shops paying on the 160 national scale, PH pays the most in Atlanta when considering base and bonus.

Bonuses at K&S and A&B are a joke.

I SLEEP UNDER YOUR BED.

PH bonus structure is national, not sure why their salary structure is not.

I heard that Hunton DC announced an increase to 160k last Friday. No other information on the effective date or how other salaries were impacted.

Do people think the Miami firms will go up since ATL and MIA often compete with the same people who go to Emory and UF?
GT in SFL is like 130ish i think so even with no state tax there is now a gap...

FLAVIA:

I sleep IN your bed

Troutman, Kilpatrick, Sutherland, McKenna, Morris Manning?

Anyone, anyone?

SAB needs to react more quickly this time. They took forever last round.

They have the PPP to handle this.
http://www.fcdr.com/Editorial/images/DRD2007/MainChart.jpg

K&S has a chance to deal A&B a serious blow if it goes uncompressed; mainly because A&B wont be able to keep up.

But because the managing partners are brothers and K&S is happy with status quo in its home city, they'll probably play nice and let them keep up.

Is every other firm in town who intends to raise going to take a page from K&S's book and only announce first year raises, giving them 6 months to figure out what to do with the rest of us?

Man, that's going to suck....

Why, has another firm done that already?

that won't look good with recruiting. oci is coming up soon and we'll want to know about pay scales before making decisions.

Has Troutman gone to 160K in its DC and NoVA offices?

12:23-

Sutherland likely waited last time in order to figure out patent salaries. They ultimately were the first Atlanta firm to go to $160k for patent and announced the regular $130k match at the same time.

There were questions above about "partner-track" associates at K&S. K&S has several different classes of attorneys. There are partner-track associates, non partner-track associates, "of counsel", contract attorneys, partners, and equity partners. There may also be "staff attorney" but I'm not sure about that one. Compensation for non partner-track associates and "of counsel" is negotiated on an individual basis I believe.

Ok, who else in Atlanta is raising? With OCI starting, one would think others will start jumping on the bandwagon ASAP...

any word on K&S Houston?

Thoughts on the FCDR K&S article?

http://www.dailyreportonline.com/Editorial/News/new_singleEdit.asp?individual_SQL=8%2F8%2F2007%4015840%5FPublic%5F%2Ehtm

I don't think that it really expresses just how "unhappy" a lot of Atlanta associates are with their pay.

WTF -- have any other Atlanta firms raised their salaries at all for any of their associates?

The Fulton County Daily Report Article indicated that K&S will likely do one of three things with respect to mid-level/senior associate compensation:

1. go to an uncompressed 145 scale;

2. go to a "merit" based system;

3. adopt the A+B compressed 145 scale, but pay bigger bonues.

Query, which is most appealable? Personally, 1 or 3 would suit me just fine. However, I think K&S will likely go with 2 or 3. The days of lockstep (outside of NYC that is) may be over.

3 does not keep Atlanta up with the other markets. While larger bonuses are welcome, overall pay disparity would remain relatively the same.

There are lots of firm who pay market AND a decent bonus.

Some firms in Charlotte right now are on uncompressed 145k and 50k bonuses. Schiff Hardin and Dow Lohnes in Atlanta pay uncompressed 160k AND bonuses.

any news from A&B in DC yet?

Any idea what Troutman, Kilpatrick, Sutherland, etc. are planning to do?

9:09 -- I disagree. For example, in Texas the market is adopting a relatively compressed salary structure augmented by big bonuses based on hours. A bonus system, if the numbers are high enough, would allow firms to solve compression without having to give low-billers the benefit. Does not sound unfair to me -- as long as compression is really solved. After all, I only care about total take home pay.

Can it really be that no other firm in Atlanta is going to move salaries?

K&S really screwed with the other firms by not matching A&B. They don't want to look cheap and just match A&B, then get upstaged by K&S coming out with less compression. They also don't want to pay more than they have to.

11:07-

Not really. They could simply make the same announcement as K&S and put off a full decision.

10:25 a deferred compensation system and larger bonuses are not the same.

The Vinson & Elkins structure of 15-65k in deferred comp for 2000 hours ALSO has a productivity bonus @ 1950/2150/2300. For V&E associates the total compensation gets closer to a full 160k uncompressed scale but still falls short 20-40k in total "take home pay".

The deferred comp method could work but it becomes a very real possibility that a bonus would be eliminated at many firms.

If you take the V&E model and apply it to the new A&B scale using the same deferred percentage it would look like this:

145k
150k
168k
192k
217k
243k
255k
266k

Keep in mind though that the V&E model was designed to compete in the 160k market and the % deferred portion will probably much lower here. Think 10-30k instead of the 15-65k which would leave a scale of 145/230k.

Would it not be easier just to put in a new less compressed lockstep scale? I think so.