first!!!!

Insurance to 80!

How about K&S has no balls and no intention of leading the market. They are merely waiting to see if one of the out of town shops (DLA, Paul Hastings, JD, etc.) trump A+B's weak scale. K&S could then "act" and not "react" with respect to mid/senior asscoiate pay.

They aren't going to pay one red cent more than they have to.

The real question from the FCDR article is “when are the rest of the dominoes going to fall?”

The real question from the FCDR article is “when are the rest of the dominoes going to fall?”

The REAL question is whether KS will have the balls to hold its annual retreat at the Pasadena Ritz, or whether it'll cheap out like it did last year.

No idea what K&S is going to ultimately do.

But I will say that the mid-level and senior associates are already about as upset as they can get about how things stand (a 5th year in Atlanta makes less than the 1st years he or she is assigning work to in the firm's NYC, DC and (soon) Houston offices. From what I understand, a revolt is brewing in Atlanta and will irrupt if K&S doesn't do something pretty substantial up the scale. Did you see where they ranked on the AmLaw 100 associates survey? Ouch.

K&S is in the financial position to fix compression and change the Atlanta associate market, but have the firm has this genetic aversion to being seen as a market leader on comp. Interesting times at K&S. Let's see what the leadership comes up with.

2:01: hilarious. Love it.

Lat, please expose the terrible salary compression that is going on Seattle. It is just as bad as Atlanta!

ONCE UPON A TIME I WAS FALLING IN LOVE; NOW I'M ONLY FALLING APART.

FLAVIA:

I love your tasty coffee treats.

K&S to 35K!

Does anyone, I reapeat ANYONE have any info. on other Atlanta firms raising or not raising?

2:12:

I talked to ANYONE. He said he has plenty of info about other Atlanta firms.

Alas, he's not posting on this board.

FLAVIA IS TOTES. PRABS!!!!

Atlanta to $35k!

2:06 -- a "revolt is brewing in Atlanta"? WTF does that mean? Will well dressed men and women be marching along 14th street with pitch forks and torches? What would they all do; where will they all go? Should the women and children leave town now for safety -- maybe send them to Charlotte? Come one.

Atlanta to $25 Olive Garden Gift Certificate!

Come one! Come all!

Who will be next to raise? I say either Kilstock or Troutman.

2:39
I was, of course, speaking figuratively. A revolt in law firm terms, means people making loud comments about comp. that partners can over hear, being less available to take on work, and otherwise being stupidly passive-agressive. I understand that is stupid and childish and partners don't give a shit. But it does lead to shitty morale and that shows up on surveys and impacts summer programs and hurts recruiting. Will current associates leave? Probably not many. Will they dow rose work? Maybe marginally worse. But pay is driven by future concerns. They will raise up the scale to continue to get folks in the pipeline, not because they want to do the right thing for current associates.

Don't like it, lateral to a firm paying real rates. Quit your whining.

Atlanta to free dial-up internet!

I talked to ANYONE also. He and I are leaving KL Gates for a second tier Texas firm that understands the value of mid- level associates.

If you're a 2L and preparing for OCI, take note. Only go to Hotlanta if you can't get a job in a real city.

when will these ATL firms raise in their DC offices?

LAW STUDENTS:

Only go to Atlanta as a last resort (or if your wife/mother/wife's mother lives there).

Atlanta to complimentary 2 week trial of Netflix!

3:02 - If your spouse's mother lives in Atlanta, why the heck would you interview there? Are you out of your mind?

A revolt on 14th street, great. We can march from the Colony Square Starbucks to the Starbucks by Einstein's. Rising Roll could make little box lunches.

3:07 Only if we get a latte at the beginning and a latte at the end (and stop at the Four Seasons bar in between).

The main reason K&S does not lead the market is that clients hate associate raises. If K&S is the first to raise, it looks like the richest firm in town throwing around excess cash, and clients start to wonder why they should pay so much to make 23 year olds so wealthy. But if they match A&B, they have the cover of being "forced" to match "market."

A&B has now given K&S that cover as to starting pay. But clients are not nearly as concerned about paying experienced lawyers more, so K&S need not fear a client backlash from upping the ante for senior associates. Thus, they are taking that opportunity to implement a scale that at least has a semblance of fairness, as opposed to A&B's abomination.

The stupidity of A&B's scale cannot be overstated. The one thing A&B had going was that it was seen by everyone as the friendliest of Atlanta's big firms. Now, they opened the door for a complete role reversal -- A&B is the stingy firm that not only wants your BarBri settlement, but which won't extend its senior associates the same measly $15k raise that it gave first years. K&S partners may be greedy, but they know opportunity when they see it. For a relatively modest cost, they can up the A&B ante, and create the perception that they are the partners more committed to fair comp, as opposed to the misers down the street.

Also, which Daily Report Dozen firms will not raise to 145k? AGG, SGR, PoGo, and the labor shops. Troutman probably can't afford it but wants to be a player, so they will match first year pay (but squeeze senior associates like crazy).

Atlanta to free debt counseling!

Is A&B really going to stick with 145 in DC?

Atlanta to free credit report!!!

Kilstock - yes
Troutman - yes
Sutherland - yes
McKenna - yes
Morris Manning - yes
GT - yes
DLA -yes
JD - yes
PH - yes
AGG - maybe
SGR - maybe
PoGo - maybe
Nelson Mullins - no
Womble Carlyle - no
Carlton Fields - no

Atlanta to Free Yahoo E-mail!

Atlanta to free three-month subscription to Sports Illustrated when you subscribe to ESPN Insider!!!!

A&B didn't create the scale, they just matched Hunton's scale step-by-step.

I think they are getting too much credit and too much blame.

Atlanta to free super saver shipping at Amazon.com*

*with qualifying purchase of $25 or more

Atlanta to free sugar packets and skim milk with purchase of beverage at Starbucks!!!!

Atlanta to unlimited John Tesh downloads on iTunes!

Atlanta to $10,000 Placement Bonus when placed into a new job by Lateral Link!!!

Atlanta to a little Vaseline first.

Hunton's scale is different in Atlanta than in Charlotte. There is less compression in Hunton's Charlotte office.

Expect the Atlanta-based firms (A&B and K&S) firms to move to the Charlotte scale for mid-levels and senior associates in Charlotte, if not already there. They will also move to the Charlotte-based scale in Atlanta by Jan. 1.

Atlanta to 2-8 year associates raises that equal more than .007 of $1.4 PPP (i.e., more than $10,000).

Hunton's scale is different in Atlanta than in Charlotte. There is less compression in Hunton's Charlotte office.

Expect the Atlanta-based firms (A&B and K&S) firms to move to the Charlotte scale for mid-levels and senior associates in Charlotte, if not already there. They will also move to the Charlotte-based scale in Atlanta by Jan. 1.

I'm planning a move to the SE, either Atlanta or Charlotte. Any advice? (I want to do transactional work in real estate) Thanks in advance. vegasluv@gmail.com

4:26, advice?

I would go for either the Olive Garden gift card or the free super saver shipping at Amazon.

3:11 - where do you see 23 year olds practicing law?

A guy graduated from college with my class that was only 18, so he could theoretically have completed law school by 21 if he'd wanted to. He had already been accepted into Stanford's PhD program in Math and Statistics, though.

4:18 - What is the basis for your statement that we should "expect" these firms to implement the Charlotte scale in Atlanta by Jan. 1? Do you have some info? If so, please share.

Ok, 25 or 26, if it makes you feel any better. Or, you can continue quibbling.

Can K&S realistically move to a merit-based structure in ATL while keeping their other offices on a lock-step system? Do any other firms do this?

I think they would go merit-based in Houston, Charlotte and Atlanta if they do it at all.

Atlanta to one Bic lighter and a pack o' smokes!

Another day passes without any other Atlanta firm raising starting or other associate salaries.

SAB, KilStock, Troutman, MMM, PoGo, etc. -- where are you. Associates at these firms, what are you hearing?

The way salaries are being handled in Atlanta just illustrates how poor the legal market is here (in comparison to the other top cities). The theorized justification that clients are not willing to pay for increased associates rates is probably valid. There is a reason that non-Atlanta firms for the most part do not have offices here. The corporate/transactional work being done in Atlanta is subpar.

As an example, take K&S losing out on the latest large Coke deal to Skadden. Almost all of the "good" work (i.e. - work where Atlanta clients are willing to pay top dollar) is being sent elsewhere. Regardless of how much K&S pays to attract the top talent, Coke, Home Depot, Delta, etc will still take their work to NYC. So, why pay it?

9:45 -- I take your point, but there are many counter examples, such as K&S handing the Caremark deal and K&S handing Sprint's merger with Nextel -- two huge deals. K&S also handled some of Coke's large deals in the past few years. Outside of K&S, though, the local Atl firms seem to feast on mid-size deals. On the litigation side, Atlanta firms appear to be stronger on the whole.

Atlanta to free arena football tix!

ATLANTA 2007

160k/280k

Dow Lohnes
Schiff Hardin

145k/200k

Hunton & Williams
Alston & Bird
McGuire Woods
King & Spalding

Atlanta 2007 Market Pay HALL OF SHAME

Sutherland Asbill
Kilpatrick Stockton
Troutman Sanders
Morris Manning
Arnall Golden
Smith Gambrell
Powell Goldstein
McKenna Long
Jones Day
Paul Hastings
Holland & Knight
Womble Carlyle
Nelson Mullins
Greenberg Traurig
Carlton Fields

Others? These firms need to be called out. 2L's, remember this list as you're doing OCI and ask, ever so nicely, so, is your firm going to pay market? If they hedge and don't use the words, "we always pay market," reject them.

Atlanta to complimentary Rush Hour 3 movie passes*!

*limit two

Those other firms don't have to match anything until January 1st. That gives them plenty of time to wait and see where everything settles.

DLA needs to be added to the list of shame

7:49 --

The rest of Atlanta's BigLaw firms can't "wait and see where everything settles" because:

(1) fall recruiting has begun and offers for next summer must be accepted prior to January 1. With everyother major market paying well above 130 and now several Atlanta firms paying 145 and 160, anyone still paying 130 is going to look cheap, second tier, and will suffer in attracting the talent they desire;

(2) if firms don't match, they may loose out on permaent offers from current SA's for the same reasons;

(3) waiting will only cause unrest and further damage associate moral. There is little risk in matching now and adapting if things change later;

(3) waiting for things to "settle" makes no sense because, frankly, nothing is "settled." There are many unresolved factors (e.g., K&S mid/senior comp or possibility of Paul Hastings et al. going to 160 or uncompressed 145) that could impact the market. What we do know is that several Atlanta firms (including a "market leader" like A+B) have set the market at a 145/190 scale. Those who want to compete know that they will, at the very least, have to match that.

If a firm is planning on competing in this town, they might as well match, send the message, and THEN wait and see what K&S, Paul Hastings, etc. do. Waiting 3-5 months then NOT adopting the A+B scale (at least) would be ruinous to a firm's current associates and future recruiting. If a firm isn't going to pay up, they better say so now...

what is DLA and PH's scale?

9:45

Atlanta is not NYC (granted), but the idea that K&S' clients send their best work out of town is simply false. I'd agree that Atlanta firms (including K&S) are "sub-par" (your word) in terms of deal work. But as for litigation, K&S handles the highest profile cases for its clients and the clients seem quite pleased with the results. That work doesn't get sent out of town (even when the jurisdiction is in a larger market where K&S has no presence). The litigation folks at K&S bill on par with any legal market (with the exception of maybe NYC, but I think that is even a push). Thus, there is no reason why K&S' litigation folks would stick around and work long hours, on high profile matters, for sub-par comp. K&S needs to step up and pay its senior folks if it intends to keep them. The clients won't get heart burn over bringing a 6th year who got a class action dismissed's salary up to around 70% of what he or she could make in any other legal market.

K&S (and all Atlanta firms) should definitely pay mid/senior associates much better. Clients don't complain about salaries of competent, experienced lawyers. They complain about salaries of new lawyers that don't know what they are doing yet.

adding to 9:59's post: Atlanta firms do miss out on a lot of their clients' big deal work, but it is largely because the big NYC investment houses control where that work goes (and they place it with NYC firms). This is increasingly true as private equity (which is very NYC-centric) flexs its muscle.

That's all well and good in terms of the work at K&S, but more importantly:

WHERE THE HELL IS THE REST OF ATLANTA!!!!

Any word on MMM?

How many of you knew that K&S just announced increased prices in the firm's cafeteria? And this BEFORE -- actually, months before -- any raises go into effect! The partners are lining their pockets with food money! K&S giveth, but it taketh away first.

Who will be next to raise? Troutman, Kilpatrick, Paul Hastings.....???

What do you guys think of a scale like this for Atlanta? A firm in DC just announced it, but based on a $160k that adds $15k to each salary.

1st years -- $145K
2nd years -- $155K
3rd years -- $170K
4th years -- $185K/190K/195K
5th years -- $190K/200K/210K
6th years -- $195K/210K/225K
7th years -- $200K/215K/235K
8th years -- $205K/225K/245K

I think it would be fair. The ranges from 4th years and up are based on quantity (of hours billed) and quality (of work).

Any time there is a tiered approach, it allows subjectivity to play into the decisions. A tiered approach is simply a way to pay people less. Also - 3:05 - I think the answer is that PH has alread vowed to match KS. I would not be surprised if the others don't raise. DLA and JD will though.

You honestly think firms like Troutman, Kilpatrick, Sutherland, MMM, and McKenna will take second tier status and not raise to $145k?

I'd expect all but McKenna to raise; not sure all except Sutherland can afford it.

PPP:

Sutherland - $854k
McKenna - $808k
MMM - $805K
Kilpatrick - $649k
Troutman - $606k

Looks to me like they can all afford it, especailly when you consider a $15k bump will cost each equity partner somewhere in the $20k range (give or take depending on the firm).

4:43 - Why is there such a negative perception of McKenna when the numbers clearly show otherwise?

The FCDR is reporting that Troutman raised salaries 15k across the board for associates in its Atlanta, DC, VA, and NC offices effective 1.1.08.

Can someone please post the full Troutman scale?

There is no Troutman scale. Not lock step. It is merit system. But Atlanta starts at 145 and DC and NY start at 160.

You get your yearly raise at Troutman based on hitting your minimum hours (1800). Above that, it's a scale. Some people get less than associates at lock-step firms, some people get more, mainly depending on hours.

So, Troutman raised 15k across the board if you get 1800 hours?

No. The 15K across the board is a market adjustment. The 1800+ gets you a "merit" raise at the end of each fiscal year.

The rest of Atlanta has no one to hide behind now... Troutman has lower PPP than the rest of the big Atlanta firms who haven't yet raised.

Will Troutman's $145k in Raleigh have any influence on the NC market? In particular the NC firms still paying $130k or $115k?

I'm thinking of places like Womble Carlyle who have offices in Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta, but are still paying $130k.

K&S Houston went to $160k for first years