first!

Why Deer Valley in the summer? Maybe the Pasadena Ritz was booked. Does anyone know if this would be the case?

how did texas get on that list.

I still think the primary point is the time-consumption. Interviews are two-sided events...the firm is sizing you up and you are sizing it up. If I was only luke-warm about the firm, I might be willing to donate a half day or a day to size them up, but a whole weekend plus the inconvenience of travel to Utah??? Nah.... I wonder how they would respond if a call-back said, "I would like another chance to meet with you, but the demands on my time do not allow me to attend the weekend event. Could I instead come by your office sometime the week of...."?

Was the first e-mail really in all lowercase? Just like their firm name?

That e-mail looks like it was typed by Stuart Little.

This gives the firm a chance to see how their call-backs react in a social environment with free-flowing alcohol...a test usually reserved for SAs and one which many flunk...so it's kind of pro-active on their part in that way...why waste time and money hiring ill-mannered drunks as SAs and then have to no offer them and then get ridiculed as a no offer factory?

John Freakin' Quinn read this blog. Oh I am so giddy. He reads the same blog as me! I am so excited I gotta pee.

the e.e. cummins wanna-be law firm

The lowercase email is really annoying. i would avoid quinn for that reason alone.

Deer Valley is awesome.

The actual saying is that "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" -- meaning you can't tell how good the pudding is until you eat it. Saying that the "proof is in the pudding" doesn't mean anything.

Accordingly, don't interview there.

So apparently, if you are invited, you are considered one of the "cool" associates.

Going to a mountain resort in the summer (or even early fall, to the likes of Aspen or Steamboat, if aspen viewing is your thing) would be an excellent idea. Going at the end of October, when it's snowing and cold yet not quite ski season, is absurd. Everyone who lives in a ski resort area dreads late Sept through Oct., and would leave if they had their druthers. (Note: the firm must be getting the rooms, etc. at a huge discount.)

If they really wanted to impress, they would invite those who receive and accept offers for a ski weekend in February.

Wouldn't you feel great as a SA when you realize that most of the other SAs made the trip and you didn't get invited. Is there any way to keep track of how many no-offer SAs made the trip to Deer Valley?

The Stein Erickson Lodge is extremely posh. And for those who haven't been there this time of year, note that at the elevation, it is hardly "summer" in October in Deer Valley. It will be quite cold, maybe not especially snowy, but very pretty.

Also, I have heard before that QE's "founder" is actually from Utah originally. I don't know if that's Quinn or somebody else, but it may in part explain the choice of surroundings.

Are they going to allow interviewees who aren't free that weekend to come to the office for a proper interview at another time?

SLC -

It is the people not the scenery that make the weekend seem less attractive. On the list of things that would detract from the beauty of the Wasatch mountains, I think that a gaggle of lawyers has to rank pretty high.

I wonder if I'll get a job if I send them my resume and writing sample in all lowercase.

I'd rather let ants chew out off my left testicle than go on that weekend-long interview.

SLC:

I'm not sure who founded the firm, but Judge Anthony Quinn (Utah State District Court - Third District) and Maryanne Wood (Quinn) (founding partner of Wood Crapo in SLC) are both related to the "Quinn" in "quinn emanuel"...

Quinn fails to mention the main purpose of the event -- to give more opportunities for the named partners to grope young law students.

Quinn fails to mention the main purpose of the event -- to give more opportunities for the named partners to grope young law students.

Quinn fails to mention the main purpose of the event -- to give more opportunities for the named partners to grope young law students.

I really like pudding.

Loyola 2L,
it could hardly hurt. i mean, it is hard to do, what with spelling autocorrect and all, but it would show that you are tune with the firm culture. also, you should drag out the interview process and make it seem sort of social when, in fact, you work there and it is not really meant to be your social outlet.

ill-ini

Quinn fails to mention the main purpose of the event -- to give more opportunities for the named partners to grope young law students.

Quinn fails to mention the main purpose of the event -- to give more opportunities for the named partners to grope young law students.

damn, al groper. that is a funny comment every time it is posted.

I agree - the all lowercase emails are reason enough to avoid Quinn. Does no one at the firm have the balls to tell Quinn that his fear of capital letters makes him look like a douche. And, no, it has nothing to do with conveying the firm's allegedly relaxed culture -- it's just dumb.

I'm confused. Was everything in that email in lower case except the snarky Charney comment? Or did Lat just insert the snarky Charney comment in for kicks?

This complaint has nothing to do with quinn emanuel's attempt to re-enact the infamous Minnesota Vikings boat-trip fiasco by inviting a bunch of indebted law school students to a weekend-long keg party in the Wasatch Mountains. Rather, I wonder why the numerous "attorneys" who read and comment on ATL are so fascinated with the word "douche." Seriously people, I expect larger vocabularies from people whose hourly rate exceeds $300.

Deer Valley, Parck City, and Sundance are great in October. It is sweater/fleece weather... perfect for hiking, etc.

Bad side: No matter what time of year, the drinking laws suck (i.e. always must get food or must pay a nominal fee for a membership/sponser).

This idea is astoundingly inane and makes me seriously question QE's recruiting/management. (Were they the ones who once sent out fake bombs as a marketing scheme?)

(1) Now in addition to annoying Stanford, Columbia and NYU students by including Chicago, they've managed to annoy Penn, Cornell, UVa, Duke, Michigan, Berkeley, and Georgetown students (and, for that matter, UCLA students) by including Texas.

(2) Way to classify associates -- the ones who weren't invited (whether or not they actually would have wanted to go) are going to feel pretty demoralized.

(3) Utah? What's the connection other than that some may want to visit with the Quinns residing there?

(4) No way would I want to give up a weekend for an interview. Beyond that, I'd feel pretty crappy if I gave up a weekend, traveled, spent a lot of time with these folks, and then didn't get an offer.

I get that Quinn wants to make itself stand out. But this seems to me to be trying way, way too hard.

5:40: Writing alll-lowercase emails in any professional setting (let a lone a "top" law firm = douche. There's simply no other word that so aptly encapsulates the idiocy of such a practice. Would you prefer "tool"?

I think people need to calm down a bit. If you want to go, go. If you don't, don't. Not that big of a deal. Breath in, breath out.

Anon, the verb that describes a person's aspiration of air (yes, check that usage, it is correct) is "breathe." Give it a shot, you know, with your nose - not with your mouth, as you're accustomed.

When I started at my AmLaw 200 firm a couple of years back, I was surprised that the firm had stocked my office with a big dictionary and thesaurus. At first, I was a little put off - what were they trying to say? I'd worked hard in school, and had gotten a top-market job, in theory.

Ultimately, I realized what the firm's rationale had been. They'd previously employed 6:15, who was clearly a linguistic throwback to the days of grunts, moans, and rock throwing.

Learn to spell people. The occasional typo that results from fast typing as you post in a blog entry is excusable. Misspelling the same word, repeatedly, is not.

Does anyone else hate the phrase "the proof is in the pudding"?

Apparently "the phrase dates back to at least 1615 when Miguel de Cervantes published Don Quixote. In this comic novel, the phrase is stated as, "The proof of the pudding is the eating."

Almost 400 years is enough, let's put that stupid f ing phrase into the big sleep.

i hope that next year's weekend callback interview is held in reno, nevada!

in what hemisphere is late October "in the summer"

You have obviously never been to Park City in the fall.

Well October = San Francisco's summer.

[This is not meant as a defense of this terrible recruiting idea.]

Amen to 6:06's first point: as a recruit at one of the schools he named, I am indeed annoyed. Perhaps even more irksome is the fact that my callback is astoundingly close to this retreat, so it's difficult to understand how they can make an argument that their decision who to invite was based on timing.

As thrilled as I would be to visit Utah in October (in the event tickets to South Dakota were too expensive), I'm a little curious as to how Quinn will decide who gets offers...will it be a multi-round elimination? First, those who can't shotgun a beer properly leave the resort. Second, those who fall out of the hot air balloon will be carted out. Finally, those Kathleen Sullivan deems unworthy will be sent to the SLC airport La Quinta. Truly, are there going to be interviews there?

ever see that movie, "caligula" starring malcolm mcdowell and peter o'toole? i imagine the weekend will be just like that, except instead of wine, they will drink utah micro-brews, like squatters-wasatch polygamy porter...

Didn't the Donner Party get lost in the Wasatch Mountains and wind up eating each other?

I imagine the same fate for a snowbound gaggle of attorneys.

I'm not buying the explanation that this over-the-top ploy is just an accommodation to 2Ls at schools where on-campus interviewing occurs "late in the season."

Perhaps the mighty QE is underperforming in the early recruiting season this year and is desperate to kick it up a notch?

Dear 6:30:

Thank you for teaching me to spell. May I return the favor? You should probably be aware that the word "firm" is singular. That means it does not take the plural subject "they". Certainly, if you feel the need to point out the mistakes of others (in such an elegant fashion, too!), you should be able to put together an error-free sentence on your own. Too much to ask?

So continue enjoying your big dictionary and thesaurus, but perhaps consider investing in a grammar book to go along with them? May I suggest a Strunk & White or two?

Lovingly yours,
6:15.

Dear 6:26. On the other hand, your post is impeccable. And so to you I offer a sincere apology. Thank you for pointing out my mistake. Where would I be otherwise? Probably breatheless.

6:34

I also believe that phrase, along with the song, "Walkin' on Sunshine," need to be purged from history.

I heard that this is all a ploy to bolster the effort to find Steve Fossett.

Dude, when do Stanford, Columbia, and NYU has OCI? Chicago started at the end of August... I can't imagine in what world that is "late." If Quinn is going to throw out a bullshit rationale for picking their favorite schools (for whatever random reasons), he should at least double-check to make sure the "reason" is something that is, you know, actually true.

has = have.... maybe Quinn would give me a callback for my creative grammar?

Don't know about the other schools, but QE won't be at UT Law till Sept. 20th, so we're legitimately late in the season. Though being lumped in with the rest of those schools is a nice ego boost for us despite our lack of T14ness. Not that my ego really revolves around what John Quinn thinks of me ... I promise. It's also completely inappropriately scheduled. That's a home game versus Nebraska.

Ugh, that was a long string of incomplete sentences. I'm embarassed for myself.

8:55: Does Chicago have a late "flyback" week off from classes?

(Still think this is a horrendously bad idea, any way you slice it.)

Yeah, Chicago's flyback week isn't until October.

how is this possibly going to be a fun relaxed atmosphere when everyone is in a competitive interview situation with everyone else??? I wonder if on the first day they make you turn to the person next to you and realize that only one of you is going to be cool enough to get an offer. now go out and have fun! and what a wasted weekend for people who go out there only to get rejected.

Well... I've interviewed with QE and several top 20 Vault firms... and here's my perspective on what QE is doing and what they are about.

The impression I got was that the folks at QE are genuinely dissatisfied and/or were dissatisfied with the inner workings and politics of conventional law firms. Hence, they are trying to build a law firm that's unconventional while demonstrating that they can become as big and powerful as any other firm.

To achieve this goal, they know they need exceptional people... and not just in terms of grades... the impression I got was that they are looking for candidates that don't necessarily buy into the status quo, someone who is not completely risk-averse, and someone who does not care more about form than substance. (ie, their law offices are shabby, but their point of view is that it doesn't matter... it's all form, it doesn't make you a better lawyer).

In short, to do what they want to achieve, they will need strong candidates who are real hot shots and who doesn't feel that they need the safety net of a vault 20 credential. Likewise, they are probably looking for those who are more worried about joining a vault 20 firm where its hierarchy has the potential to hold them back.

In all honesty, it's the folks who are insecure that really need to get in the door at one of these top vault firms to establish their credibility.

When I was comparing QE and the vault 20 firms, the analogy that came to mind was Apple and Microsoft/Oracle about 10 years ago. Microsoft and Oracle were huge and having their name on your resume gave you some credibility... but, they were/are very conventional companies. Being at Apple, especially 10 years ago meant you were at a disadvantage in terms of reputation but were at a place that was less conventional. As the last 10 years have played out, doing something different gave Apple a huge growth opportunity.

Whether QE turns out like Apple or fails is the big question.

If you join a top vault firm, you are risking little, although your growth opportunity is regulated. If you join QE, you are risking a lot more, but if it becomes like Apple, you will ride the growth and be more successful than your peers. It's whether you focus on the risks or the rewards. As lawyers, we're trained to minimize risks rather than maximize rewards... so, it's easy to see why most young lawyers would go to the top vault firms.

Considering what QE wants to do, I don't think they will care if some of the callbacks freak out at a weekend retreat and decline... those who freak out will probably not be the ones who can make QE into a success anyway.

Well, that's my two cents. I like watching QE. They're different. I may still go there one day.

I think you already work there.

However, your self-serving comment does bring up interesting points re the connection between lawyers/law firms and, say, i-banks. QE took this idea from i-banks. The tone of your comment, and possibly of QE's strategy, is very i-banky. for example,

"To achieve this goal, they know they need exceptional people... and not just in terms of grades... the impression I got was that they are looking for candidates that don't necessarily buy into the status quo, someone who is not completely risk-averse, and someone who does not care more about form than substance. (ie, their law offices are shabby, but their point of view is that it doesn't matter... it's all form, it doesn't make you a better lawyer)."

I understand your point, but at the same time lawyers SUPPOSED to be risk-averse, because they are supposed to be able to point out the risks to the client. Lawyers are supposed to, actually they need to, understand both form and substance, the ways that one can often shade into the other.

I would think that most clients would prefer a slightly geeky, risk-averse lawyer to the kind of Dionysian superhero that your comment alludes to. I think you have mixed up the lawyer and the client. The business person should be the visionary who casts convention aside and follows the substance at all costs. The lawyer is there to bring him down to earth. It's not so sexy but it is important.

If you don't look forward to a 72 hour interview you probably can't handle the 2700 hours you'll be billing your first year. That said, JQ & Co are a fine bunch to be dining with. Get ready to learn about wine, esp. if M is there. But they've been known to tease their juniors, so don't be thin skinned and be prepared for jousting. Good luck - an excellent place to be overall.