first in DC!~

I honestly have no idea what I will be getting for hitting 2000 as a 3rd year. It's not secret, but I've never taken the time to find out.

What should I expect?

I hear we are in the middling range.

Okay, okay, I'll go first:

Orrick - For first years:
$25k at 2000 hrs,
$10k-$15k at 2100 hrs (whatever it takes to match the NYC market of $35k-$40k)
More money for more hours but you really should stop at 2101.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/skaddenfreude_heres_the_orrick.php

Diminishing marginal utility of money?

WHAAAAAAA-OOOOWWWWWWW

We're Vault 100, towards the bottom. Here's our info. It's been in effect since 2004.

Anything between 1950 and 2100 is discretionary. Guaranteed 15k at 2100.

The chart reflects bonus ranges for 2200, 2400 and 2600

1st and 2nd
$19,000 - 21,000
$27,000 - 32,000
$36,000 - 45,000

3rd and 4th
$20,000 - 26,000
$32,000 - 40,000
$43,000 - 55,000

5th and 6th
$25,000 - 30,000
$39,000 - 47,000
$52,000 - 65,000

7th and above
$27,000 - 32,000
$46,000 - 54,000
$62,000 - 75,000

American Lawyer has the results of their midlevel associate survey here. It has median bonus numbers for third-, fourth-, and fifth-year associates at several firms.

Scanning the numbers, one thing jumps out at me: Covington, Hogan, and A&P's numbers are all really low, compared to some of the other firms. Some of those firms are NY firms that pay lock-step bonuses, but what about Wilmer?

So are bonuses at those firms really that low, or are there differences in who answers the survey?

Anyone know about Hogan? I hear its a great firm with terrible bonuses.

12:03:

How could someone tell you what to expect without knowing which firm you work for?

Can anyone provide information regarding Howrey's bonus structure? I am particularly interested in 3rd and 4th year bonuses.

Does anyone actually bill 2600 hours? If so, they should spent their bonus on their office, because it is pretty clear they never leave it. Seriously, what good does it do you to own a BMW if all you do is drive it to/from work.

I will work my 2000, get my smaller bonus, and see my trophy wife at night.

12:42, If Howrey's bonuses are as amorphous as its non-lock-step salaries then no one can tell you.

I guess you just have to trust them to pay you fairly.

Of course they will . . .

I will work my 1950, get my smaller bonus, and see 12:57's trophy wife in the afternoon.

Any word on Baker & McKenzie? I heard they were smaller than industry, but haven't heard by how much.

Any word on Baker & McKenzie? I heard they were smaller than industry, but haven't heard by how much.

Any info on K&L Gates

Any info on Kathleen Boozang?

Any info on Kathleen Boozang?

Rumor has it she is a fat and obnoxious administrator/professor at a 2nd rate law school.

Yeah - I second the request for info on Hogan bonuses...

12:42, 1:14, and 1:20-

If your firms' bonuses were even close to competitive they would publish them, not hide them. If you have looked around and can't find a memo or something then you can probably assume the worst - -

which is that after busting your butt all year and walking out of the office at 10:00pm and seeing those guys from Skadden across the street leaving at the same time as you, you're going to get a $5k bonus, which after taxes is about the same as a handshake, and the guys doing the same work for the same hours across the street are going to get $40k. Sorry.

Any information on Gibson Dunn bonuses would be appreciated.

What does Gibson Dunn pay in D.C. for 2nd-years, 3rd-years, etc.?

1:54, For GDC just take Orrick's bonuses and match them or bump them by $5k.

White & Case?

Sorry for all of the questions but I'm about to start OCI and I really like GDC. Do you think they are at DC market or are they below?

W&C and GDC will both at least match market. They're not stingy (with money, at least ---- partnership prospects are a different story).

Any informaiton on Jones Day bonuses? I heard that hours are calculated from July to July; do they give a bonus in the summer, or do they take into account post-July hours when coming up with your year-end bonus? Some have said they don't pay bonuses, but that can't be try, can it?

I wonder whether Williams & Connolly will start paying bonuses (since they didn't raise their base salaries in response to the latest D.C. raise, making them only slightly above market).

Thanks for the quick response. What practice in D.C. has the best capital markets work in terms of deals, etc.?

Thanks for the quick response. What practice in D.C. has the best capital markets work in terms of deals, etc., or at least leads into the best in-house positions? Thanks.

It's true. Generally, no bonuses at JD.

JD is notoriously cheap, and despite the "One Firm Worldwide" mantra, is all about what Cleveland wants. In major markets like NY, their billing rates are substantially below those of its competitors, which tells me that they are trying to compete on price, not quality of the legal work. Around the time of the Pinnie & Edmonds merger in 2003/04, literally dozens of associates left in the wake of the firm's failure to give any bonuses whatsoever, despite other market firms doing so.

RE: Baker & McKenzie -
a commenter in a previous post claimed that B&M pays 5% at 2100 hours and nothing before (http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/08/fall_recruiting_open_thread_va_7.php)

though i don't know if this is true

2:23:

If this is true, why does anyone stay at JD? I know for a fact that there are many well-qualified lawyers working at JD. Why wouldn't they jump ship, even if to a less prestigous firm, in order to get the bonus they deserve? I can't make sense of it.

1:54, for DC cap markets you can go to McKee, CWT or Orrick (for straight-up NYC style work).

2:25, it's true, then 10% at 2200, 15% at 2300...

2:31, if the associates at JD like the clients and the partners they might stay. They also might have a Williams & Connolly factor going if it's easier to make partner there. That's worth a hell of a lot.

I don't work in law and get no bonus and see 12:57's trophy wife in the morning so that 1:08 is enjoying my sloppy seconds by the time he arrives in the afternoon!

L2L is 12:57's trophy wife.

Jones Day pays bonuses. At least to those associates who actually do something.

3:18

define "something"

So, as I understand it, most DC firms (with W+C and JD standing out as major exceptions) pay according to the Orrick scale?

I'm a 2L wading through the callback/offer process. Is there any way to tell, among the Vault 100, which provide the best partnership opportunities, and which are best/worst for bonuses?

12:57
If youre only billing 2000 hours, Ill take my chances with L2L over that TTT's probability of making you partner. He's better in bed anyway.

12:26 posted Howrey bonuses for 2004-2007. For 2008, bonuses are supposed to be included in your salary.

3:32, most firms in DC pay less than the Orrick scale above. GDC and W&C are both from out of town and are both hugely profitable.

Proof: Ask someone who works for Dickstein or Arent Fox what kind of bonus they get. (or K&L Gates, K&S, A&B, Venable, Howrey, Baker anything, or any other firm that's not made out of money)

3:34, you'll just have to ask some associates on your callbacks. Hopefully at least a few will be honest.

Let me be clear - Jones Day was, by and large, a good place to work, bordering on great if you happened to be a litigator (I was not, but still enjoyed my time there). However, the failure to pay bonuses - and the poor manner in which that decision was communicated (it was rumored, very plausibly, that the partners responsible for communicating bonuses and other compensation matters to associates were unaware until the night before "envelope day" that no bonuses would be paid except to a very small handful of senior associates who happened to be up for partner) - resulted in poor associate morale and, consequently, a fairly large exodus of associates. A shame, really.

I assume 2:23 is talking about the NY office. Jones Day's Washington office doesn't pay bonuses. There are lots of good reasons to work at the place, but bonuses is not one of them.

Third to the request for info on Hogan.

I was indeed speaking of the NY office - but it was my understanding that such was the practice firmwide - I may have been mistaken. And I agree on it being a good place to work, overall, so long as you can focus on the work itself. But dollar-wise, it isn't the best among similarly-ranked BigLaw firms.

any insight on the difficulty of making partner at JD?

I am a 5th year JD associate (in an office outside of Ohio) and have received a bonus every single year. I cannot speak for other associates, but they do pay bonuses to some.

First to request info on Hogan

5:23

Are you sworn to secrecy within the Firm? Do associates talk to each other about this kind of thing?

5:23

Was this bonus you speak of legitimate/substantial, or was it some nominal/token amount?

Dechert pays very poor bonuses, at least at the lower end of the scale. <$10,000 for the 2000 hr range and <$15,000 for the 2150-2200 hr range.

With the pay raise this year, I can't imagine things will improve.

Last year Goodwin DC (and all its offices, I think) matched the Ropes bonus scale: 1st years: $35,000, 2nd years $40,000, and then less for more senior associates -- all starting at 1850 hours. They explained the bonus compression for mid-levels by relying on a total comp perspective. But a very good deal for junior associates.

Perkins apparently raised base salary in Seattle to 130K for first years and 150K for IP first years. Has their DC office at least matched that 150K across the board? Any info? That, of course, would affect the impact/size of any DC bonus, I'd assume.

WilmerHale bases bonuses mostly on hours and includes all pro bono hours toward its bonus benchmarks. In rare cases it will bump someone up or down a notch if their work is unusually bad or exceptional. This is WilmerHale's scale for every US office except New York:

1st Years:
$15,000 for 1850
$30,000 for 2000
$35,000 for 2200
$40,000 for 2400

2nd Years:
$15,000 for 1850
$30,000 for 2000
$37,000 for 2200
$45,000 for 2400

3rd Years:
$15,000 for 1850
$35,000 for 2000
$42,000 for 2200
$50,000 for 2400

4th Years:
$15,000 for 1850
$35,000 for 2000
$42,000 for 2200
$50,000 for 2400

5th Year:
$15,000 for 1850
$38,000 for 2000
$45,000 for 2200
$55,000 for 2400

6th Year:
$15,000 for 1850
$40,000 for 2000
$50,000 for 2200
$65,000 for 2400

Why is info in DC so much more difficult to come about than in NY. In NY I feel like this info is widely known and pretty the same across the board.

I have heard (unofficiall) that Hunton (every office) has the following bonus structure

2000 (minimum): 0k
2150: 20k

However, they stress that there is NO automatic right to a bonus and that it will be measured looking at everything on the whole.

Also, i've heard that its rare that people get bonuses

Any info on K&L Gates, Venable or other DC focused firm? There are only 4 or 5 helpful posts so far.

I am a Jones Day associate in DC. They don't pay bonuses. I don't think its prohibited, and maybe 5 or 6 associates get them to be the exceptions that prove the rule, but do not go to Jones Day expecting to get a bonus. Or market salary after the first year. Figure to get a 5k-10k raise every year (so after taxes, you can maybe buy 1 or 2 nice suits to wear to the business formal office), and that's that. Don't think about the people across the street making a lot more for a lot less work, it'll just make you depressed. You'd assume that Jones Day would be ashamed that they lose associates every year b/c of money, but then you would be making an ass out of u and me.

Venable pays their bonuses in the "golden handcuff" fashion; half up front, half in June. I don't think there is really any scale, but look at the scale posted at 12:26pm for just the 3rd/4th years, and that sounds about right as the scale for all years at Venable with a little less at more junior years ("junior" = 1-4) and a little more at more senior years ("senior" = 4-8).

Do smaller markets like Denver, Hartford, New Jersey, etc. pay bonuses??

As far as I know, A&P pays bonuses as follows:

1950, of which 150 can be pro bono:
$15,000

2200, of which 330 can be pro bono:
$30,000

2400, of which 360 can be pro bono:
$62,000

I know that several firms (including GDC and Latham) provide signing bonuses to incoming first year associates. Do they also pay year end bonuses?

Do most national firms (like Wilmer, Orrick, GDC, L+W) have unified bonus scale outside of NY, or do they have office specific bonus determinations?

hey late to the discussion law students: this is a city by city breakdown. Because you were unable to determine that or too lazy to look up the discussion under the other cities, I hereby declare you too stupid to get hired. No bonus for you.

Any info on Patton Boggs?

How are Steptoe's bonuses?

I second the request for Steptoe info...

7:11, that was Wilmer's bonuses pre-$160k salary scale. You have to knock $15k off the bonus at each level of your list starting this year. They cut back, like MoFo and Howrey.

Steptoe and Patton Boggs are going to be a lot closer to the Dechert scale than the Latham/GDC scale. Sorry. Plus they have compression in salaries.

Another request for Hogan info....

any info on covington?

11:04, Orrick's bonuses are for all US offices, and LW and GDC probably do the same thing.

Any info on Sidley?

Any info on Sidley?

Still no info on Hogan - must mean they don't give much...

I second the request for info on Sidley. Does it differ any from the bonus structure of their Chicago office?

O'Melveny DC please?

This is very anecdotal (from a couple of first years at Hogan). They each made their hours, but I don't think either billed substantially more than the minimum. Each got $15K. Both friends like Hogan, incidentally.

Another friend, a first year at Jenner, got $20K for billing just over 2000 hours (their minimum).

Any info on Willkie Farr?

I am a first year at Hogan and I couldn't even tell you how it works exactly. The fact that it is such a secret generally means it isn't good. Co-workers have told me that it's 0k for 1950 hours (100 of which can be pro bono), and that most associates who work somewhere in the 2000-2100 range get 10-15k. I believe it is capped below the range that many NY firms pay because associates who bill a lot don't seem terribly happy with their bonuses. But if you actually want to practice law and not just make a quick buck for 2-4 years, a firm is more than its bonuses. Hogan doesn't bill its associates at the same rates that Skadden does and so can't be expected to pay the same bonus.

baker botts dc bonuses are a joke. 1st year: 5k for 2000 hrs, 5k more for 2100 hrs. And although it goes up from there, bonuses for 6th yrs at 2000 hrs are still less than 45k. Yet they expect 2000 hours!

Does anybody know anything about Steptoe?

Any info on Pillsbury?

Any info on Pillsbury?

Still looking for current Hogan bonus info. Is there any out there?