Lets get some info on LA firms fellas. We all already know what NY does.

One way to organize the board would be by city- don't you think bonus policies vary more along market lines than firm lines? Ex: Everyone in NYC gets PAID. But in other cities everyone is paid on an hourly basis.

first?

first?

5th?

Hey 12:49...you'll never get anywhere in this business if you assume that all lawyers are "fellas." I can hear your offers being revoked as I type.

Kirkland's bonus table (increases beyond market based on hours and merit): http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0035kz
At least last year, it was the same bonus grid firm-wide. I'm not sure what the increases to $160K outside of NY will do to bonuses this year, but I suspect they'll be higher in NY than in other cities (as they were in 2005).

Anyone from NY Katten like to share the structure? I'd like to compare to Chi Katten. .

1:08 - It could be that he/she is asking for info only from male lawyers.

1:08- are you attractive? where do you stand on Pantsuits?

Wilson Elser decided last month to abolish lock-step salary raises and all of a sudden retroactively apply a minimum billable requirement. If you do not hit the billable requirement, you do not even get a chance (regardless of the quality of work) to get a raise or bonus. Now, Wilson Elser is a large firm, but they do not pay large firm wages. In fact, we make about $100K less than the Big Law counterparts, but they've decided we should be working the same hours nonetheless. Anyone want to edit my resume?

I bet most NYC firms will use the same bonus scale they used last year.

On the one hand, 2007 will probably be a good year.

On the other hand, (1) they already raised base salaries this year and (2) market conditions are uncertain.

If they pay the same bonuses as last year, people will take home more total pay (due to the higher base salaries), but not by a huge amount. That seems about right.

I second the discussion about the LA market bonus. NY is all the same, except Kirkland, and Wacthell.

Will Wachtell pay 100 percent bonuses again this year?

The V50-100 NY firms are not necessarily all the same.

This discussion is more valid for those firms than the top firms, which all do pay the same.

we get free weed.

Lat, can you (or anyone else) post a link to last year's bonus scales referred to in 1:19?

Jones Day?

1:28: Look at the 1:10 post.

1:23, I'd trade half my bonus for the free weed. I need the rest for hookers.

Senior Female Associate I am an attorney. I would suggest pulling your head out of your ass, because it may get crushed due to the tightness.

General rule for LA bonuses (first year example):

"Big 3" (OMM, Gibson, Latham( and direct competitors - 30k

Big Regionals (Allen Matkins, etc.) - 15-25k

Out of state Big 3 competitors (Skadden, W&C, etc.) - 30k

Out of state regional competitors (Loeb, etc.) - 5 - 15k

http://www.lawfirmdiscussion.com/compensation/newyork07salary.php

1:38, I think you meant to post:

http://www.lawfirmdiscussion.com/compensation/newyork06bonus.php

There is a lot of missing info from that chart... Kramer Levin, Katten Muchin, Stroock, Chadbourne, Proskauer....

1:35, your budgeting skills are admirable

1:16 - maybe you should have worked harder to get into a better law school or worked harder in law school so you wouldn't have to work for a TTT firm like Wilson Elser. Go cry somewhere else and let the big boys talk here about firms that somebody gives a crap about.

Last year the general scale for NYC was:

Class of 2006: $30K (prorated)
Class of 2005: $35K
Class of 2004: $40K
Class of 2003: $45K
Class of 2002: $50K
Class of 2001: $55K
Class of 2000: $60K
Class of 1999: $65K

WilmerHale (NYC) bonus info missing from the link in 1:41?

I got a mouse pad with the firm logo.

1.08 - I believe the "fellas" were Lat and Merck (i.e. the guys who run this site). Way to be over-sensitive, though.

I am laboring under a singular compulsion to beat the living shit out of 1:48... I may even use an electric typwriter in doing that....

1:53, are you attractive? where are you on pantsuits?

So far this thread has produced not one bit of new information.

Any info re: Jones Day nyc bonuses?

1:55 or should I say Wilson Elser associate - too bad that 1:48 is certainly not only smarter and harder working than you, but at 6'4, 225 and a former member of the military he is most likely tougher than you as well and thus would most likely shove that electric typwriter somewhere that it really does not belong or fit without an extraordinary amount of pain.

We should see a slight increase in the bonus amount this year. I think it's clear that the credit market problems are not going to be long lasting or widespread. Deal activity has slowed, but it was moving at an impossible pace for the first six months of the year.

Overall, revenue at the top 10 firms will probably be up over 10% this year, and profits will be at record highs despite the salary increase.

It feels like 2000 out there... bonus in 2000 started at $40,000 and went to $100,000. Just saying.

1:48, I went to a top 20 law school but made the stupid decision to go into public interest and then back into the private sector. Guys like you have to pay for BJ's, so I guess it all evens out in the end. But truth be told, you really upset me. This whole anonymous douchebag making insane statements to which he has know personal knowledge has really gotten under my skin. I mean, seriously, how can I compete with such a witty person? Hold me?

Wilson Elser associate - perhaps you should consider a lateral up, I hear Jacoby & Myers is hiring.

1:55, don't take it seriously. these guys are just AutoAdmit Trash. It takes are real man to threaten someone over a blog comment section. This guy was clearly beat up in high school way too much.

2:02, you clearly missed the part about some senior female associates sucking and other senior female associates being cool. That was new.

Although we still have gotten no info on the pants suits, so maybe that's what you mean.

2:02, you clearly missed the part about some senior female associates sucking and other senior female associates being cool. That was new.

Although we still have gotten no info on the pants suits, so maybe that's what you mean.

question from a clerk who has never worked at a firm.

When do you graduate up the firm salary scale + bonus scale?

Suppose I start in Sept. 07 at 160k.
Will my salary go up to 170 in Sept. 08 or in Jan. 09?

What bonus do i get in Jan 09? a first year bonus (30k), or a second year bonus (35k)?

2:19 - 2007 is your stub year, so you get paid first year rate, $160k, from Sept 07 through all of 2008. For 07 you will get a prorated bonus, and for 2008 get a full first year bonus (which was $35k last year).

Wilson Elser associate - 1) if you have to use top 20 it means you were not even in top 14, certainly not the top 10 and definitely not the top 5, thus, you should have gone to a better law school; 2) I don't have to pay for BJ's thanks, I would guess I probably get more action than you do; 3) I do have some personal knowledge of Wilson Elser, they were opposing counsel in a matter I was involved in and they were complete d-bags and totally incompetent.

to actually answer 2:19, promotions are on a calendar year.

To be clear, anyone that has to talk big about their own law school and own law firm and own experience with opposing counsel, even though you have really not been out of your cube yet, has a really small body part.

...and anyone who keeps responding to obvious flames has a really small body part too (their brain).

On another note, who still uses cubes? 2:44 are you the Wilson Elser associate? They don't even give you offices there, sorry man that really does suck.

Dechert in DC has, in the past, had very low, not worth the effort if you're behind in hours, bonuses. With the pay raises this year, I wouldn't expect anything exciting this year.

2:19 -- everyone is right, but if you have clerked for a year you should start at 2nd year pay, not 1st year pay

2:19 -- everyone is right, but if you have clerked for a year you should start at 2nd year pay, not 1st year pay

"Last year the general scale for NYC was:

Class of 2006: $30K (prorated)
Class of 2005: $35K
Class of 2004: $40K
Class of 2003: $45K
Class of 2002: $50K
Class of 2001: $55K
Class of 2000: $60K
Class of 1999: $65K"

*Were these the amounts given out irrespective of hours worked? Did top billers earn more? Did certain firms (other than Wachtell) pay more? Seems Kirkland does, so am wondering how accurate these figures are.

Based on this graph, my rough guess is that NYC is $20,000-$30,000 higher than the same firm's California office (and in CA, the bonuses are hours-based). That should settle the outrage over NYC being at the same salary as CA associates (very apparent from these posts that NYC associates make more).

2000 Bonuses:

Class of 1999: $40,000
Class of 1998: $50,000
Class of 1997: $60,000
Class of 1996: $70,000
Class of 1995: $80,000
Class of 1994: $90,000
Class of 1993+: $100,000

Cravath PPP 2000 - $2,111,000
Cravath PPP 2006 - $3,015,000

1:55 or should I say Wilson Elser associate - too bad that 1:48 is certainly not only smarter and harder working than you, but at 6'4, 225 and a former member of the military he is most likely tougher than you as well and thus would most likely shove that electric typwriter somewhere that it really does not belong or fit without an extraordinary amount of pain.
Ive changed my mind about the typewriter. I will have to use the taser..

Don't tase me bro!

2:19: If you clerked for a year, you will likely be at 160K until Jan 2008, at which point you'll go to 170K (unless you're going to the rare firm that determines associate class in the fall, in which case you should be starting at 170K). The reason it's somewhat confusing is because the first "year" in big law generally lasts 16 months (e.g. September 2006 to December 2007). In January 2008, you may receive a prorated first-year associate stub bonus depending on your firm. In January 2009, you will receive a full second-year associate bonus.

Beware the Sullivan move, it may drag down year end bonuses. Sullivan often in the past has announced first (granted, not in the last 2-3 years), with the market following in line. This year Sullivan might try to trim year-end bonuses knowing that another round of payments is only 3 months away. (This gives Sullivan an incentive to go first this year, so that it can set a low bar rather than have to match a higher bar set by firms that are not paying out March bonuses). Other firms then might match Sullivan, but not pay out anything in March.

Sullivan won't be first unless they want to be bloodied by all the other firms at least matching last year's bonus structure.

Their proposed compensation plan is just plain nutty. Nobody can even figure out what the payout range will be, but at the same time other firms have to match. So, they have forced other firms to consider raises for at least class of '02 and higher (if not all associates), but not provided enough guidance to keep a good lid on things. Eventually a firm will respond and they won't do so with a half-a$$ now-you-see-it-now-you-don't compensation package; they will respond with concrete numbers that people can count on and verify. Then everyone will follow the leader. And what will S&C do? keep their leprechaun gold bonus pool? No! No one will sit at S&C holding a raffle ticket when they can get a hard and fast (and predictable) compensation package at a dozen other firms.

In principle, S&C's attempt to provide additional incentive to Senior Associates should have some impact. It demonstrates that the firm values SAs (who are extremely productive) and wants to keep them around. The fact that it's based on the firm's performance also makes sense: it treats SAs like partners to a certain degree, which is, after all, the status that SAs are encouraged to strive for.

What's so damned mind-blowingly thick-headed about this is the niggardly sum involved. An extra $15-20k isn't going to encourage any SA to stick around. Start doubling the multiple, it could sway some people. This, therefore, looks like an incredibly cynical PR stunt. It's really a self-inflicted wound by S&C and lays bare the amazing greed and short-sightedness of Management.

11.48,

I don't think S&C's senior associate bonus is an attempt to stop defections to other firms. Rather, it's meant to stop defections to finance. If you're midlevel at S&C and going for the brass ring, you're not going to lateral out over compensation. S&C hopes to encourage seniors to keep striving for that brass ring.

-8.24

Bonuses may not be as great this year. the credit crunch is hurtin' some.

the credit crunch is not affecting legal work at the top firms, maybe some bucket shops that securitized subprimes, but not at top ships. that would be a BS excuse.

Last year at CWT, after 2k hours, you got:
Class of 2006: $30K (prorated)
Class of 2005: $35K + free mustache ride
Class of 2004: $40K + free mustache ride
Class of 2003: $45K + free mustache ride
Class of 2002: $50K + free mustache ride
Class of 2001: $55K + free mustache ride
Class of 2000: $60K + free mustache ride
Class of 1999: $65K + free mustache ride

what the hell is a "bucket shop"?

A contingent 15G in February? Are you kidding me!!!! I don't care about a conditional 15G at the end of the year. As a NY biglaw associate, I care that my cost of living is significantly more than that of any biglaw associate in any other city. Thus, I care about salary -- guaranteed compensation. Just because my firm may not have a record year, does not mean my rent will be lowered. NY associates should be paid more than others because our costs are greater. Unless you have family obligations keeping you in NY, why stay?
And another thing, how are NY big law firms going to retain 5th year associates and up if all leave and move elsewhere because the high cost of living? This S&C idea is a nickle and dime bit.

Class of 2006: $275K

Whoops, my bad - thought we were talking about private equity...

If you don't bill the target hour amount (2000) does that mean you get nothing come december?

Do smaller markets like Denver, Hartford, etc. pay bonuses??

CWT always matches the first mover to announce bonuses. The guess here is that they will be about the same as last year.

2:19 - Some firms, like CWT, raise your pay half way in September. For example, in September 2008 the current new hires will go to $165,000 (presuming salaries remain unchanged), and their salaries will go to $170,000 in January 2009. Most firms wait until January to give you anything (I think).

Generally speaking.....

At a 160K firm. Just finished my first year. Gonna be in the high 1900's, just short of 2000. My whole department was generally slow....how screwed AM I, more experienced folks? 2000 was the target...

hey, can any of you guys and gals justify this wee numbers after all the schooling and billables year x year?

is it the coffee or kool aid in the pantries?