Am I the worst, no I'm FIRST!!!!!11

Please do a year end bonus watch for Detroit, Mi

Really Lat! Where's the TEXAS bonus thread? Texas is definitely ahead of SF/SV when it comes to biglaw. With the various carpetbagger firms paying NY bonuses and the Bigtex firms paying anywhere from nothing to 80k, I think Texas deserves some discussion.

Add Miami to the list!

Add Miami to the list!

Some SF firms apparently changed their bonus structure with the change in base. What are those firms (I've heard WSGR, MoFo, Heller, and Bingham?) and what are the new bonus policies? Remember there was a thread on Heller sometime ago (referenced in the LA thread), what about the others? And how do those bonus policies differ from other firms (Orrick, Howard Rice, OMM, GDC, LW)?

Texas a bigger player than SF/SV? Sure, there are more attorneys -- it's a whole damn state! But when it comes to top firms that are based in those locales, SF/SV takes the cake. The same can be said for setting trends and leading the market. On the whole, more good talent heads for the Bay than Texas. And that's no diss to Texas.

Orrick bonuses for 2007 on the $160k scale -
For first years:
$25k at 2000 hrs,
$10k-$15k at 2100 hrs (whatever it takes to match the NYC market of $35k-$40k)
You get more money for more hours but you really should stop at 2101.

Bonuses go up with seniority, like everywhere else. The full memo is at the URL below.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/skaddenfreude_heres_the_orrick.php

MoFo pussed out and it's first bonus now isn't until 2100hrs. It really just incorporated its old meager bonuses into the salary so that it could say it matched. Several other Cali firms did the same. Very weak.

Any information on Keker?

What is MoFo's bonus at 2100? Does it match the market bonus of $35K or does it fall below that?

Someone may have raised this point on one of the other bonus threads, but isn't this an odd time to solicit information on bonuses---i.e., several months before/after bonuses are actually paid? Certainly people can speak to past years, but maybe waiting until January would result in all-around more useful posts.

3:01, you make a good point, mostly because it doesn't seem that anyone knows anything (which, in itself, is kind of crazy -- don't these firms at least tell their own associates what the bonus structure is?). Still, there are people interested in bonus information now, namely (1) summer associates currently interviewing, and deciding between, San Francisco firms; (2) current clerks considering applying to San Francisco firms; (3) anyone considering lateraling; and (4) current associates generally happy at their firm but trying to figure out whether they should kill themselves to bump up their billables by 100 hours (or whatever) these next few months.

Since firms are at the same base salary, firms distinguish themselves through their bonus. And, from what I gather, the difference between certain firms is significant and seem to range as high as $30K for associates billing the same number of hours. Anyone who doesn't think that range is meaningful obviously doesn't have student loans and isn't trying to buy a home or support a family in SF. It matters and I think most of us are just hoping that our firm won't be the one to fall behind the market (because it is not fun knowing that your friends at other firms, where you also had an offer, and who are doing the same amount of work as you, made $30 K more).

If you're looking for the top compensation, go to Orrick or Kirkland. They will match or exceed NY market bonuses now.

Wilson and MoFo have fallen off. No surprise seeing the growing difference in PPP between the Bay Area based firms.

For an associate that hits 2000 to 2100 hours on any given year, the actual pay differential between different firms is huge. Basically, the higher the firm is on Vault (except Mofo), the bigger one's bonus.

heller pays $5,000 at 2100 hours. don't go there.

Orrick has higher PPP than MoFo? How much more are Orrick and Kirkland paying than OMM/GDC/LW/MoFo? And I heard that WSGR used to lead the market in total associate compensation -- no longer?

3:25: I think it's at 2000 and I think it's $15K. That said, it's not NYC money, that's for sure.

any info on cooley?

Patton Boggs is something like $5k - $40k depending on year and number of hours above the minimum. FWIW, I think its about 10k per 100.

But they just raised minimum billables to 1950, too.

second the request for info on cooley

Skadden SF gives it's associates an all expenses paid trip to the Castro as a bonus...

If you want to make the most money and be in the Bay Area, you should go to one of the major NY shops with a Bay Area office (Sullivan, Skadden, Simpson, DPW, etc.) These firms have traditionally, with some exceptions, paid their associates in the Bay Area the exact same base and bonus as received in NY. Thus, if you want to know what any of them made last year, just check prior posts for the NY market. First years at these firms will probably end up around 190K this year, with seniors at about 350K. Seniors at Sullivan might hit 400K due to higher base comp. (310K vs. 280K), and the Spring payout (which is really a dealyed 2007 bonus since it is based on 2007 profitability.)

So . . . Sullivan is the market leader in the Bay Area.

Yes, from a compensation perspective, Sullivan is the King of the Hill in NorCal. Nobody can touch them out here. The other New York firms only match its comp. at the junior levels, but are left in the dust after a few years. Base for seniors, depending on class year, can be 30K higher than at the other NY firms with a presence here. Sullivan's base for seniors is $310, others are at 280K.

Can anyone give specific info on Nixon Peabody, Cooley, Wilson Sonsini or Howard Rice?

Where the hell is the Atlanta thread?

Do Atlanta offices give bonuses?

Too bad there's not all that many jobs opening up at those NY shops...they really aren't major players out here so let's sort of leave them out of the discussion. What's Sullivan got, 30 people down in Palo Alto?

As for PPP, MoFo is around 1.2M last I checked. Wilson was somewhere around there too.

OMM/GD are at 1.9 and Orrick is at 1.6, but I think with Orrick having covered a lot of its recent debt from the new building they're going to continue to close that gap.

Any Pillsbury people want to share?

Does anyone know what Keker's clerkship and year end bonuses are?

Keker's clerkship bonus is 35k for federal or highest state court.

I've always thought of Quinn and Kirkland as tops in compensation for SF (outside of the NY based shops). Quinn has a commitment to following NY, despite being based in LA. Kirkland just has their normal bizarre bonus structure.

5:25: Is that overall, or per year spent clerking?

3:29, 3:25 is actually correct. First years at heller get a pathetic $5k bonus at 2100. The memo is here: http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/west_coast_pay_raise_watch_the.php

"Yes, from a compensation perspective, Sullivan is the King of the Hill in NorCal. Nobody can touch them out here. The other New York firms only match its comp. at the junior levels, but are left in the dust after a few years. Base for seniors, depending on class year, can be 30K higher than at the other NY firms with a presence here. Sullivan's base for seniors is $310, others are at 280K."

It is only King of the Hill because of new extra spring payout to senior associates. Besides that, comp is exactly the same at S&C as it is at STB, DPW, Skadden, and Weil, which all have SF and/or SV offices (and pay the same in all domestic offices).

"I've always thought of Quinn and Kirkland as tops in compensation for SF (outside of the NY based shops). Quinn has a commitment to following NY, despite being based in LA. Kirkland just has their normal bizarre bonus structure."

Kirkland is not tops because their bonuses are not lockstep and vary in the class.

That means if the partners screw you out of billables, or just flat out don't like you, you can get well below the NYC market bonuses. Of course the superstars get above-NYC market bonuses, but not everyone is a superstar so it's not clear that Kirkland is the non-NYC market leader in comp.

Quinn on the other hand is much closer. Although they reserve their discretion, bill 2000 hours and you'll get NYC market bonus. You could theoretically bill 2000 hours at Kirkland and not get anywhere close to the NYC market bonus.

I heard Cooley gives pretty good bonuses.

"Too bad there's not all that many jobs opening up at those NY shops...they really aren't major players out here so let's sort of leave them out of the discussion."

Weil, Skadden, Simpson, and DPW are actively hiring in SF and/or SV. Too bad you simply don't have the creds to get hired there. Enjoy your pathetic CA-based firm bonuses...

You wrote: "It is only King of the Hill because of new extra spring payout to senior associates. Besides that, comp is exactly the same at S&C as it is at STB, DPW, Skadden, and Weil, which all have SF and/or SV offices (and pay the same in all domestic offices)." That is not true. The base for 8th years at Sullivan is 310K. The base at the other NY shops is 280-290K. Sullivan is 20-30K higher even without the spring payouts. The advantage rises (based on estimates) to 40-50K when you consider the spring payouts.

[[Too bad there's not all that many jobs opening up at those NY shops...they really aren't major players out here so let's sort of leave them out of the discussion.]]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Look at the ten biggest deals last year in the Bay Area - - now count how many of those deals did not involve a principal represented by one of those firms.

K&E bonuses generally match NY market for the average associate (i.e., "with the class" rating and around 2100 hours). The majority of associates are either rated ahead of their class OR have more than 2100 hours. Bottom line is that the non-superstar, reasonably performing K&E associate is matching NYC (and therefore topping most, if not all, local SF shops) and many of them are beating NYC (and therefore crushing local SF shops).

Plus they're hiring.

Let's do Atlanta -- after all, we don't just get screwed on base salary. Bonii suck too.

Response to EliteBIGLAWLawyer. Don't know if you're info is right or wrong, but if you truly are an "EliteBIGLAWLawyer" why would you ever be concerned about underperforming? Sounds like what you're saying is that people who expect to do well and want to maximize comp should go to Kirkland. People who can't hang should try to go somewhere lockstep and stave off unemployment as long as possible.

Ok so this is what I have learned from these posts:

Get a job at Sullivan. If you can't, get a job at one of the other NY firms here like Skadden, Simpson or DPW. If you can't, go to K & E or Quinn. If you can't, go to a big Bay Area firm. Do I have it right?

It is a little more complicated that that, b/c K & E and Quinn can best Simpson, Skadden et al if you bill a ton of hours - - which you will do at Simpson or Skadden. I would say:

Tier 1= Sullivan (at least until WLRK shows up)
Tier 2= Simpson, Skadden, DPW, Weil, K & E, Quinn
Tier 3=Big Bay Area shops: Mofo, Wilson, Heller, Orrick, etc. Including boutiques like Keker.

Let's do Atlanta -- after all, we don't just get screwed on base salary. Bonii suck too.

================

Yes. By the way, K&S has yet to even announce what it will pay in 2008.

K&E's all in pay is much higher than K&E's. The bonuses blow the doors off of S&C.

Also, the focus on the S&C increased $15K-20K is for senior associates. If you are considering senior assoicate status check out these facts:

S&C opened Palo Alto office in 2000 with 8 attorneys - they now have 11 attorneys. Great growth story there huh? Great future ahead of you there huh?

K&E opened SF office in 2003 with 11 attorneys - they now have just under 100 attorneys. They are growing AND making equity (not just non share) partners.

I think you meant to say K&E's all in pay is much higher than S&C's

It is true that people who expect to do well and want to maximize comp should go to Kirkland & Ellis. But how hard do they work? Life is not just about money.

"K&E's all in pay is much higher than K&E's. The bonuses blow the doors off of S&C."

I have followed boards like this carefully for many years (usually in Dec.) and I don't think you have the facts right. Please refer us to any source demonstrating that K&E has, or intends this year, to pay all in comp. to senior associates of 400K or better. According to last year's Greedy posts, K&E seniors were not even close. If you want a reference for Sullivan, see Wed.'s Recorder. If you don't have a reference for K&E, please refrain from posting misinformation on the Board.

See link below re K & E bonus payouts in NY for 2006. Senior associates ranged from 75K at 1800 hours to 110k at 2400 hours. Assuming base of 280K, K&E seniors made 355-390K. I guess that makes them tier 1.5 (below Sullivan, but above the rest of the NY firms).

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?topic=Greedy%20Chicago&msg_id=0035YN

Actually S&C and K&E should be "co-top tier" for the Bay Area since the numbers are for 6th years at K & E, and 7th years at Sullivan.

Here is a more interesting question, how much do the glorified senior associates at K&E (i.e., NEP's 7-12 years out of law school) make?

Any info on fenwick & west?

K&E in SF seems to do mostly IP and corporate. What is their general litigation practice like?

(Also, noticed very few female associates in the SF office, and very few minorities. This might make a difference to some.)

Any info on Gunderson? I can't find anything anywhere...

WSGR bonus approximates (with the 160 scale)

Year: Hours 1900/2000/2100

1: 9,000/16,000/23,000
2: 9,000/16,000/23,000
3: 10,000/18,000/26,000
4: 11,500/20,000/29,000

5th Years have more deviation (14,000-40,000).

As of now, no more money for hours over 2100, and productivity/quarterly/monthly bonuses were eliminated.

No info for the big three?

Gunderson info?

LOL @ the "get a job at Sullivan" comments. Although they may be "paying" that much to senior associates, it is rare for that office to have even one or two "senior associates." Associate attrition is sky-high and their recruiting efforts do not lead to high yield.

Second the request for Gunderson info. How do they compare to Wilson?

Pretty much these bonus watch threads are useless. Kick f'n A! Again I see Orrick's bonus structure...if only I gave a shit about that one firm.

Thanks for the WSGR information. Too bad that they eliminated the quarterly bonuses. I was hoping that more firms might start to do that -- if you have a really painful few months, some extra cash at the end (rather than up to a year later) would seem a nice morale-boosting treat.

Any information on Paul Hastings?

"LOL @ the "get a job at Sullivan" comments. Although they may be "paying" that much to senior associates, it is rare for that office to have even one or two "senior associates." Associate attrition is sky-high and their recruiting efforts do not lead to high yield."

That's why there is new Spring bonus in addition to the regular bonus: to keep PROFITABLE senior associates around.

You shouldn't be laughing at the get a job at sullivan comments. You should be laughing at the people trying and getting turned down. They are the third most prestigious firm in the country according to vault.com: most of you that want to lateral there from CA firms like MoFo, WSGR, etc don't have a prayer. You might have a shot lateralling there from STB/DPW/Weil/Skadden, but only because those are the closest to being peer firms to S&C.

Please post PHILLY bonus thread!!

any info on pillsbury?

Anyone know how Keker handles year-end bonuses?

Why LOL at Sullivan posts. The topic of this board is compensation. The fact is S&C is number one in the Bay Area for compensation. The size of the office or the amout of turnover is not the point of discussion here. It's all about money. The work, hours and culture at Simpson, Sullivan, Skadden, etc., are not materially different, and depend more on what partner you work for than which firm. That being the case, the only thing that matters in making the selection is money. Sullivan wins here.

2:23 - At Paul Hastings SF, first year associates who hit their 2000 hrs were paid bonuses starting at $27,500.

These Sullivan posts are retarded. They have like 10 people in their bay area satellite office. They are a New York firm, period. The only people who go to their west coast outpost are prestige whores who make their decisions solely based on The Vault. (Note to "Elite TTT" and others: the Valut "prestige" rating for Sullivan is based entirely on people's impressions of Sullivan's NY office; it has absolutely no bearing on, and is no reflection of, their Bay Area satellite.) Calling them the "top tier" firm in the Bay Area is ludicrous -- their presence here is totally negligible.

Simpson is similar. The one classmate of mine who went to Simpson's SV office (I went to HLS) was not terribly bright, and went there solely based on it's Vault ranking (again, a ranking based entirely on Simpson's NY reputation). No one here thinks it's especially prestigious to work in Simpson's SV satellite (and among my classmates, the fact that this woman works there is proof enough of its non-prestige).

It is definitely true that the NY firms' satellite offices pay more than the CA firms in bonus (save maybe Orrick). But it's also true that you'll work NY hours in order to get the $$, so your hourly comp won't actually be any better. And you'll have that much less free time. And without any of the prestige you'd get from working in those firms' *real* offices (you know, the ones in New York).

Sedgwick Detert has a bonus system based exclusively on hours billed in excess of 1950.

2000 - $6,500
2050 - $11,500
2100 - $15,500
2175 - $20,500
2250 - $25,500
2325 - $30,500
2400 - $35,500
Each additional 75 hours - $7,500

Apparently, there were a couple of lunatics who billed nearly 3,000 hours and got bonuses of $100,000

Where does LW fit into the last 9/10 of this thread? More like a NY firm or a CA firm? If PHJW is almost 30k for a first year at 2000, what's LW? I can't imagine much less...

PHJW matches NYC, does LW, GDC, OMM or MoFo?

second request for fenwick

8:17pm and others are right on the money here. Sullivan & Cromwell is practically irrelevant when discussing Bay Area or even California law firm salaries. They have like 60 lawyers in the entire state. Same goes for many of the other NY firms. It would be interesting to know what % of people on here actually work at law firms. From some of the posts I'd guess the % is pretty low.

VERY well said 8:15.

and 10:33

Are these bonus structures going to hold up now that base salaries have changed?

Right on 8:15. These are effing satellite offices of uber-NYC firms with not much street cred in SF. I'd go for a LW, GDC, Heller, MoFo, or Orrick over these shops in a heartbeat...

How does Mayer Brown handle bonuses in the Palo Alto office? Do they give associates NYC market lockstep bonuses like the CA offices of top NYC firms or is it something different?