Lets hope somebody upstages Cravath by making these raises part of base compensation or at least a single bonus.

DPW and STB, we're all looking at you here.

any idea what dla piper chicago bonues are typically?

THIRD!

Why should I access my Yahoo email account from my Blackberry rather than my office computer?

12:14

PATRIOT Act

12:14

PATRIOT Act

These bonuses are outrageous

Cravath is managing expectations. From NYLJ article:

"Cravath's announcement comes against a backdrop of disappointing results and layoffs at Wall Street investment banks. "We've said to people quite explicitly that the business environment is uncertain," said Chesler."

Cumberland--

its called a market economy. got it??

12:09, during bonus season the City gets a lot less Windy (i.e. contra NY, the subject of bonuses at Chicago offices is discussed in whispers, if at all).

Or, use tor + privoxy + firefox running off a flash drive.

Lat, will you be my Facebook friend?

seems like dla piper posted bonuses very early last year. any news on this years bonuses?

greedy mofos

Given the MUCH higher bonuses in NY (always have been, always will be), I'd say the tired (though valid) argument regarding the higher cost of living in NY should be put to rest.

Nothing is going to be decided in Chicago or other markets until we see where the top NY firms are going.

It seems to be a no-brainer that the top 10-15 NY firms* are going to match dollar for dollar, and it seems similarly unlikely that, beyond an additional 10-20 firms in NY* where some will and some won't (or some will partially), the firms below the top 20-35 NY firms* aren't going to match much or any of the "special bonus."

From there, the way that Chicago, DC and LA firms handle this is going to depend on what the national firms with big presences in NY are going to do. What firms like Latham, Sidley, Kirkland and similar firms do are going to drive the market for the 10-20 national firms who have to compete in NY and who have in the past allowed non-NY associates to get close to or above NY market bonuses with high hours.

There are a lot of firms in Chicago, LA and the Bay Area where you have historically been able to get NY money for 2200-2400 hours. Obviously, places like DLA are not going to match any of the special bonus. The actions of Skadden and Kirkland should be very informative. I think that these firms and maybe places like Sidley and Latham will have to step up and allow well-respected 2300+ billers to get pretty close to the total NY comp, but we'll see.

One thing is for sure, it will be a long and interesting bonus season. Lat just got his holiday bonus in the form of increased ad revenue. Lat to $3.59/1000 ad views!

*Determining who falls into these categories is left as an exercise to the commenters.

My Kirkland Chicago bonus better be at least that of NYC

FIRST

Ouch - Lat is getting blacklisted by the firms, but they're willing to talk to Lattman.

Take heart, L2L -- Lattman, a Fordham grad, is scooping Lat, a Yale grad.

Another way to save the bonus memo:

Open it up on your computer. hit the print screen button. open up ms paint. hit the paste button. now you have a picture of the memo. there are a million ways other than sending it that you can use to transfer it to another computer, USB keys, floppy drives, cd burner, save a draft e-mail, etc.

12:43, you seem knowledgable about this stuff. Do associates in different Skadden offices get different bonuses? For some reason I figured the people in Houston got the same bonus as those in New York. And do you mean to say Skadden bonuses even in NYC are below market?

Skadden won't be interesting or informative -- whatever Skadden does it does in lock-step across all offices unlike other nationals

*knowledgeable*

Top 10-15 NY firms (not necessarily in this order):

DPW
Simpson
Cleary
Skadden
Latham (?)
Sullivan (already kind of matched, with senior bonus pool)
Wachtell (just to make sure everyone knows they're #1)
Cadwalader (I'd expect them to match)
Debevoise
Weil
Paul Weiss

Expect to match:
Cahill
Clifford Chance
Gibson
Goodwin
Fried Frank
MoFo

Mayer?
Dewey?
K&E (just for the shout-out, they're prob already higher)
Milbank
Shearman
Sidley

Since when did Latham become a NY firm? Branch offices don't count.

Top Chi firms?

Since when did Latham become a NY firm? Branch offices don't count.

12:57, it's only the last year (maybe 2?) that Skadden has been the same across the country. Skadden associates outside of NY got screwed prior to that. I don't think that is was huge, maybe $10-20k less in total comp, but I am sure that some others can comment. (I also recall that Skadden senior associates in NY got slightly less, too, but that may be wrong.)

I don't think Skadden can afford not to match the special bonus in NY, or they will go back to being kind of a dirty secret of lower compensation like they used to be. They would be stupid to let that happen. However, I would be surprised if they really paid all offices these special bonuses. That is going to be very expensive for them.

Also, I should have mentioned that the comment re: number of senior associates in these firms (made in the other thread) is a good one. Places like Skadden have a TON of senior associates (I think, maybe someone can confirm). Places like Cravath and S&C aren't going to have as many (again, please confirm). It's a lot less expensive for some places to give senior associates massive bonuses because natural attrition has already driven them out. Other places, not so much attrition, and you can bet that firms are going to be looking at the number of bodies when they are deciding what to do.

wait...CWT...top firm? Since when?

Some firms are national or international firms. It does not matter where their original office was. The top international firms set the market and it does not matter if their first office was in LA, Chicago, DC or NY as that is meaningless nowadays. There are international firms and regional firms. CSM, Skadden, Sullivan, K&E, Latham are all international firms and play in the same field. Talking about branch offices is so 90's and very dated.

Even though PH is not a NY firm, it will match market once it shakes out.

1:05 -- Goodwin will only match if that's what Ropes & Gray does.

Is Wilmer considered regional or a big enough player to match?

are all of these firms talked about lockstep? I thought some of them (like Latham) are based on billables...

Cadwalader top 10-15? LOL.

1:20 - See the Cravath thread for that info. CWT isn't as high on Vault (it's in the 30s, I think) but in the AmLaw ratings for RPL/PPP, it's up there with the big boys. That's why AmLaw is a better indicator when it comes to bonuses/raises.

1:36, Wilmer is about twice the size of Goodwin and WAY more national than Ropes ever thought about being.

1:45/1:49 - CWT = #26 Vault, #4 PPP, IIRC

Chicago? Match? LOL!

2:46, they still have bed bugs. 'nough said.

I don't care what numbers you give me for CWT. Wait a couple years after the impact of all the defecting partners becomes clear. It's a sinking ship.

Defecting partners? Care to englighten?

Partners aren't defecting from CWT - They were asked to leave. It's the associates who run like mad on their own volition

"The project of bringing greater transparency to associate compensation"

Ha, you mean the project of driving traffic to your blog. Which is fine, but don't act like it's virtuous or anything...

12:23-

I understand it's the market but I think it is outrageous and nearly sinful that someone who is 26 or 27, a year out of law school making over $200,000 a year.

From what I have found out people at my school will be lucky to make anywhere near that much. It would be more acceptable if firms like Cravath gave half a chance to people like me and others at Cumberland to get a job there.

Cumberland 3L

It only seems sinful to you b/c you can't get in. There is a reason schools like yours exist and attorneys from your schools can't get into big firms---and you should appreciate it: normal people need lawyers, too. And honestly, you are what they can afford. Its not a diss, its a reality and be glad that you are in that market--b/c that isn't sensitive to mortgage markets and lock-step pay raise issues which force people out and make us big law associates miserable.

Stop bellyaching about not being able to play with the big boys, you should know by now that it ain't all that its cracked up to be. Its not going to change unless you prove to be an extraordinary attorney, and if you are, you will make more money working for yourself anyway.

Besides, your education didn't cost as much as ours. (If it did, you did some crappy cost benefit analysis and that's your fault, not Cravath's).

Cumberland 3L

It only seems sinful to you b/c you can't get in. There is a reason schools like yours exist and attorneys from your schools can't get into big firms---and you should appreciate it: normal people need lawyers, too. And honestly, you are what they can afford. Its not a diss, its a reality and be glad that you are in that market--b/c that isn't sensitive to mortgage markets and lock-step pay raise issues which force people out and make us big law associates miserable.

Stop bellyaching about not being able to play with the big boys, you should know by now that it ain't all that its cracked up to be. Its not going to change unless you prove to be an extraordinary attorney, and if you are, you will make more money working for yourself anyway.

Besides, your education didn't cost as much as ours. (If it did, you did some crappy cost benefit analysis and that's your fault, not Cravath's).

Cumberland 3L

Get over it! You don't go to a top tier school, it ain't gonna happen. It's not outrageous or sinful that we make 200K---esp considering the fact that most of us have over 120K in law school debt. We have to make that much to justify the expense---and we work our asses off for it, believe me.

If you have that much in debt, than you didnt' do an adequate cost-benefit analysis before you went to school and that's not anyone's fault but your own. you should have known what you were getting yourself into before you signed up to go a 2/3d/4th tier school.

CWT might be a horrible place to work, but it's incredibly profitable and you have to be really good or have a massive book of business to make partner there.

That said, CWT is a powerhouse in structured finance, and structured finance hit a wall sometime around June. I wouldn't be shocked if that showed up in profits.

With all that said, CWT will match. The firm can't offer associates a reasonable shot at partnership or a decent / sustainable lifestyle, but is does offer great exit opportunities and cash. If it skimps on the cash it's associates are going to jump on the exit opportunities.

Cumberland 3L

Get over it! You don't go to a top tier school, it ain't gonna happen. It's not outrageous or sinful that we make 200K---esp considering the fact that most of us have over 120K in law school debt. We have to make that much to justify the expense---and we work our asses off for it, believe me.

If you have that much in debt, than you didnt' do an adequate cost-benefit analysis before you went to school and that's not anyone's fault but your own. you should have known what you were getting yourself into before you signed up to go a 2/3d/4th tier school.

Cumberland 3L

Get over it! You don't go to a top tier school, it ain't gonna happen. It's not outrageous or sinful that we make 200K---esp considering the fact that most of us have over 120K in law school debt. We have to make that much to justify the expense---and we work our asses off for it, believe me.

If you have that much in debt, than you didnt' do an adequate cost-benefit analysis before you went to school and that's not anyone's fault but your own. you should have known what you were getting yourself into before you signed up to go a 2/3d/4th tier school.

can we please stop the double and triple posting

Cumberland 3L - I will be happy to give a shit what you think is sinful as soon as you offer me a special bonus for doing so.

4:27 -

So which structured finance specialty firm do you work for?

Thatcher, Mckee?

Associates running like mad? Where do you people come up with this nonsense - I have two friends that work at CWT and this is not the case - certainly no more drop off than other firms its size. Seems as if you have all this time on your hands to do non work related things such as spending time circulating false information - all the while, sitting by angrily wanting to know how much more your firms should be paying you to do such. What a joke.

Cumberland,

Please advise me why it is "sinful" to make a lot of money, whether young or old. Are you one of those judgmental a-holes who call people like me a workaholic while secretly wishing you were driving my SL500?

2:53 - Guess you don't work for Kirkland or Skadden.

Somebody should really respond to Cumberland 3L.

Cumberland 3L and Loyola 2L (now a 3L but kept his name) should start their own firm upon graduation:

Cumberland & Loyola LLP to $0 + a box of tissue for their tears!

Go easy on the Cumberland dude. The head of SRZ's real estate group, Jeff Lenobel, is a Cumberland grad -- he did ok for himself.

C3L -

Are you some kind of fucking communist?

Does anybody here have a set of balls?

6:36 - since when is SRZ is good firm?

Look, I never went into law school expecting to make 200k after graduation because I am not willing to work in a place like New York or Washginton. I'd be willing to take a job in Atlanta but even that is a little too busy for me.

My ideal job would be 9AM to 5PM doing work where I don't have to go into court that much and occasionally really get to help some people out. I would also ocassionaly like to knock off work at noon. However, I don't think I should go broke having a job like that, which is why these bonuses are wrong.

I am going to come out of law school over $100k in debt. I'm in the top 20% of my class. I think these bonuses are outrageous and sinful because someone like me who wants to help people will be lucky to make as much as some of these bonuses. Furthermore, someone in their mid 20s already making $160,000 don't need another $40,000.

6:56 - granted SRZ is not a top firm (though they are at the top of the pay scale -- does anybody know where they are in PPP?), but Lenobel is one of the top RE rainmakers in NYC. Have to agree with 6:36 here -- that Cumberland boy did alright.

Working 9-5 where you get to knock off work at noon and you don't think you should go broke having a job like that. You won't go broke, if you learn to live on minimum wage, which is what a job like that often pays.

Someone in their mid 20s making $160,000 needs another $40,000 if that person happens to have $150k in student loans. And, believe you me, I pay for every cent with my sweat and blood.

Cumberland -

Leave us alone you middle class fuck

compared to what hedge fund or PE guys are getting, big law bonuses look modest at best...

CWT will match, it is a big player money-wise. Its PPP are higher than a lot of top Vault firms. Really, it isn't even that bad a place to work, at least not in certain groups. Structured finance may have slowed down a little bit, but everyone is still really busy, and the unbelievable pace of the first 7 months of the year will make up for the slower 4Q. Not to mention the three HUGE (upwards of 20 billion deals) closing at the end of Oct, beginning of Nov.

I can't believe you guys have not figured out that Cumberland 3L is just trolling. Stop it, people!

I hope CWT matches the bonus, which I suspect they will. This thread was atypically light on CWT bashing. I work there and think it's a great place. I don't get all the bashing - it's equally strange and pathetic.

CWT will match ... most of the major NY based firms with $1 mil+ PPP will match. It'll be interesting to see where the line is drawn, however.

I think given that it is considered to be a one-year thing, though, most of NY biglaw will match. I was surprised not to see any come down the pipe today, but by the end of the week I'm sure we won't be disappointed.

I will go ahead and speak for most of my friends here -- Cumberland 3L is an idiot!! We work just as hard to get into lawschool and in lawschool as everyone in biglaw. Just because we didn't make a 175 on a 1 day test doesn't mean we aren't cut out for biglaw or don't desire to make more money than these retards in birmingham offer us. I am not looking for a job working 35 hours a week. I am looking to make as much bank as I can, as fast as I can.

Moreover, who says we can't get into biglaw. Sure, it isn't the path that most grads from here are on, but it can happen. I sent resumes all over the country this summer and landed 4 office interviews and 2 job offers to top 100 firms. Rankings are important, sure, but don't be surprised when you see someone other than a tier 1 greedy-f#ck in your summer class next year!

if you're not from a top tier school, it helps to be an attractive girl...so i hear

Cumberland? Where the fuck is that? If you're going to go to law school, at least pick one that people have heard of. i.e. not some cucumber/never never land hybrid that sounds like a kiddies playground.

Cumberland 3L, it's called economics. Perhaps you should study up, since you borrowed over $100k in debt to finance a 9-5 career. You may think that the bonuses are "sinful," but it's what the market will pay people who are billing 2100+ hours a year. Period. I'm 29, making $200k/year, and I'll take every extra penny that my firm wants to give me, without the guilt trip please.

Sinful! Ha, I love it. Yes, perhaps it is. But enjoy it while you can, kiddies... when Hillary, Nancy, and (most importantly) Charlie take over in '09, the good times will officially be over. The taxman is a'comin.

Cumberland 2L & 3L -

why don't you get the fuck off this board and go back to calling each other the n-word on your school's westlaw TWEN site

2:37...Wilmer has about 150 lawyers more than Goodwin, not quite "twice as big"

C3L- Biglaw associates work at least 3 tiems as many hours as you just said you plan on working, so why shouldn't they make at least 3x what you will? Never mind they were top of their class and went to top-tier schools, which should bump them up to deserving about 5-6x what you'll make. They earn every penny- and do so by living a largely miserable existence. Don't be a hater.