Sucka! Boo Yah!

my bonus: first

first, and dang

First

First Sucks, This Rocks

NY Firms must match this to continue to retain top talent.

First!

Figgity first!

FIRST

first, and dang

i predict a comment clusterf**k

so. . . graduate from lawschool, start off making $205,000/yr. Not bad work if you can get it.

Sucka! Boo Yah!

What will other firms do? Do they traditionally give bigger bonuses at Cravath than at other shops?

Is it common for first-years to get a year-end bonus after only 3 or so months of work, or is this just a Cravath thing?

What does special bonus mean?

source?

first!

Is it common for first-years to get a year-end bonus after only 3 or so months of work, or is this just a Cravath thing?

Is it common for first-years to get a year-end bonus after only 3 or so months of work, or is this just a Cravath thing?

Yeah, what's a "special bonus"?

What does special bonus mean?

Special bonus is paid next week. Rest is paid at year end. Firms who want to remain top-tier will match the total (though not necessarily the timing).

Yeah, what's a "special bonus"?

please explain to me why i shouldn't think that anyone who writes "first" is not a total douche.

Usually, first-years get a pro-rated bonus for time at the firm. This one looks nice if accurate.

Mmm...Special K.

Hahahaha, that's it that Cravath pays in bonuses? For all those hours? What an absolute scam. I guess the attorneys are paid in prestige points.

I assume the year end bonus for class of 2007 is pro-rated, right? So who's going to top this?

Mmmm.....Special K.

"Is it common for first-years to get a year-end bonus after only 3 or so months of work, or is this just a Cravath thing?

Posted by: SP | October 29, 2007 04:44 PM "

Um. Class of 2006 has only been working 3 months. Riggghttt.

Joke bonuses.

doesn't class of 2007 mean fall '06 starters whose stub year ends 12/06 and real hours start 1/07? as such, this year's fall class is the class of 2008 -- and would get a pro-rated $35K

doesn't class of 2007 mean fall '06 starters whose stub year ends 12/06 and real hours start 1/07? as such, this year's fall class is the class of 2008 -- and would get a pro-rated $35K

You're mistaken.

4:58: No.

4:58, I don't know what you are saying but it made no sense. The "Class of" refers to the year you graduated from law school. Get a clue.

This is just depressing. I'm going home to sulk.

wrong unless. class is measured by when you start. thus, this year's entering class gets pro-rated 35K and no special K.

I have been trying to get into Movable Type to update this post, but I have been unable to. Here is what I would add if I could:

1. No official comment back from the firm, but this news is solid -- confirmed by multiple sources at Cravath, by phone and by email.

2. As noted previously in this comment thread, the "special" bonuses will be paid on November 9. The year-end bonuses will be paid in December.

3. I would add a Drudge-style siren to this post if I could get into it to revise it.

Forgive my ignorance, but is class of 2007's bonus pro rata or does Cravath given them the get the full 35K?

So is the special bonus in addition to the year-end bonus? Do class of 2002 get a *total* of $95K?

When do we get out mountain bikes?

"class" usually denotes the year those people graduated from school and began working. so "class of 2006" graduated in May '06 and began work in Sept. '06. probably why '07 gets no "special" bonus...only 3 months' work. but 35K pro-rated for 4-5 months' "work" (depending on when the fiscal year ends) is pretty good.

how does this compare with Cravath's bonuses last year?

Class of XXXX refers to the year that they graduated from law school

that's what i was confirming. some firms use "class" to denote fiscal year when your hours start counting.

Only stupid firms.

i for one and happy with this early announcement b/c there is a lot of uncertainty in the market. plus, it's a raise.

i for one am happy with this early announcement b/c there is a lot of uncertainty in the market. plus, at least it's a raise.

That's almost more than I make in salary! I need to jump ship!

Last year, the class of 2006 at most BigLaw firms paying NYC market received 35K pro rated, correct? Still unsure, therefore, whether this 35K reflects the pro rated amount itself, or whether the 35K figure will be pro rated for the amount of time the associates have actually worked (some started in September, others in October or November, etc).

looks like a substantial raise for juniors and a dramatic raise for senior associates -- undoubtedly a response to S&C's supplemental bonus for seniors.

Here are last years and this years numbers compared:
30 45 + 15
35 55 + 20
40 65 + 25
45 80 + 35
50 95 + 45
55 110 +55

First years always get a pro-rated bonus. So that nice 35K is, in reality, around 6-8K for those who started this year.

Sucks for Class of 2006!

"Special" = code for the raise in bonuses being a one-time event.

So, to clarify, ALL the associates at Cravath are receiving year-end AND "special" bonuses? Or are the "special" bonuses tied to some hours requirement?

looks like a substantial raise for juniors and a dramatic raise for senior associates -- undoubtedly a response to S&C's supplemental bonus for seniors.

Here are last years and this years numbers compared:

stub year: who cares
1st year : 30 45 + 15
2nd 35 55 + 20
3rd: 40 65 + 25
4th: 45 80 + 35
5th: 50 95 + 45
6th: 55 110 +55

Does anyone know how these compare to last year's bonuses?

so does this mean kirkland 1st years will average 50k?

Does anyone know how these compare to last year's bonuses?

Any word on other firms matching?

First years always get a pro-rated bonus. So that nice 35K is, in reality, around 6-8K for those who started this year.

cravath never ties hours to bonuses...so prob. means special as in “boom year”

Does anyone know how these compare to last year's bonuses?

I want the next generation I-Pod before it comes out. Frivolous bonuses = my firm!

So many clueless commenters. "Special" generally indicates the bonus is given because the firm had such a good year. "Class" refers to the calendar year you graduated. Class of '07 lawyers get pro-rated bonus.

The real question: will my Vault 10 firm pay a special bonus?!

Are special bonuses new to Cravath, or have they paid special bonuses previously?

Cravath and other top NYC firms never tie to hours -- why should they, because you either work like a slave or get fired.

is this in addition to any hours-based bonuses?

Special bonuses to show appreciation. How odd.

Sweet holy moses. It's rainin' gold bricks!

Two thoughts:

1) Yippee! I don't see how top-tier firms avoid matching the "special" bonus, lest it be seen as admitting they've had a shittier deal than their peers.

2) This comes right on time for fall recruiting. Anyone choosing between Cravath and, say, S&C, just had a big push in Uncle Cravath's direction. Unless, of course, Uncle Sully is quick to match!

Bonus #3) In Y2K dollars, what would this be? At least 20-30 bucks, right? God bless you, Ben Bernanke.

So, to clarify, ALL the associates at Cravath are receiving year-end AND "special" bonuses? Or are the "special" bonuses tied to some hours requirement?

The base bonus is same as last year. The "special bonus" the amount each class is getting this year over last and is intended to tell associates "don't count on this as the floor for 2008."

Typical lawyers - can't get the numbers right. All previous comparisons to last year posted were incorrect. You were using stub year of last year as first year. See below:

Stub: who cares
1st: 35 45 +10
2nd: 40 55 +15
3rd: 45 65 +20
4th: 50 80 +30
5th: 55 95 +40
6th: 60 110 +50
7th: 60 110 +50

Has Cravath usually paid market bonuses in years past or is this the first time in recent memory that Cravath has tried to separate itself from the pack this way?

Cravath will really benefit from recruiting with this. The other top NY firms had better announce quick if they don't want to really lose out on the best 2Ls.

The next person who asks if it is tied to hours should be shot.

I wonder if this is tied to hours.

The other Vault top 10 firms, whose partners are all filthy rotten rich, better pay up too, or in-the-trenches associates will be even less cooperative with them than is the norm as.

543: not really, I'd guess that at least 90% of Cravath offers have been accepted already.

With respect to recruiting, this would most significantly affect 3Ls who have yet to accept an offer and ho have a deadline of this week to decide where to accept employ since 2Ls have a later deadline and firms will have more time to react to the raise for 2Ls.

Clearly though, this move is meant to detract from S&C's senior associate pool. In almost a year, senior associate total compensation has increased by 33% at Cravath. Cravath must be having some significant retention problems (like most other firms) and throwing more money at associates is its attempt to resolve the issue. Perhaps it will work, but I think reducing slavish time constraints on senior associates would have been a better measure at least for Cravath.

Will Cravath become the new Simpson and be the first to announce new raises?

That's the test of a true top firm.

should I shoot him now, or wait until I get home. Shoot him now, shoot him now!!!!

This is a raise. this is all you're gonna get this year

This is a raise. this is all you're gonna get this year

5:43: Cravath hasn't separated itself from the pack, the pack will follow.

What portion of this bonus is tied to hours?

543: not really, I'd guess that at least 90% of Cravath offers have been accepted already.

With respect to recruiting, this would most significantly affect 3Ls who have yet to accept an offer and ho have a deadline of this week to decide where to accept employ since 2Ls have a later deadline and firms will have more time to react to the raise for 2Ls.

Clearly though, this move is meant to detract from S&C's senior associate pool. In almost a year, senior associate total compensation has increased by 33% at Cravath. Cravath must be having some significant retention problems (like most other firms) and throwing more money at associates is its attempt to resolve the issue. Perhaps it will work, but I think reducing slavish time constraints on senior associates would have been a better measure at least for Cravath.

Hod did JG from Suffolk find out about this so quickly?

JG in da house: is this tied to hours?

5:49 - your naïveté is painfully apparent. Last year was Simpson's first year to lead the salary raises. In the past, it was always Cravath or S&C (perhaps also Davis Polk? I can't recall).

Sharon is definitely getting that Prada bag. Yeeha!!

6:03 - History means little. A firm that was a leader yesterday can easily fall behind if it doesn't keep up.

Simpson garnered all the press this year, therefore it was king of the mountain.

If this is Cravath's attempt to knock them off, they have failed.

Permanent raises are the name of the game, not one time bonuses.

5:49 - your naïveté is painfully apparent. daffy duck always ended up getting shot in the face cheney-style.

5:49: the real question is whether Cravath will become the new Simpson and Simpson the old Cravath while Weil becomes yesterday's Skadden but not tomorrow's White & Case but only if Cleary is Davis Polk until Latham is Paul Weis, but no matter, bacuse nobody is Wachtell. Except Wachtell.

Post at 5:54 - 3Ls who did not summer at Cravath who have yet to accepted have until Dec. 1.

3Ls who did summer at Cravath (or anywhere else) can extend the deadline to Dec. 1 with firm permission.

ONE HUNDRETH!!

543: not really, I'd guess that at least 90% of Cravath offers have been accepted already.

With respect to recruiting, this would most significantly affect 3Ls who have yet to accept an offer and ho have a deadline of this week to decide where to accept employ since 2Ls have a later deadline and firms will have more time to react to the raise for 2Ls.

Clearly though, this move is meant to detract from S&C's senior associate pool. In almost a year, senior associate total compensation has increased by 33% at Cravath. Cravath must be having some significant retention problems (like most other firms) and throwing more money at associates is its attempt to resolve the issue. Perhaps it will work, but I think reducing slavish time constraints on senior associates would have been a better measure at least for Cravath.

It is the same exact scale as last year, but a little more pro-rated for the new folks that just started and the extra bonus for everyone else. The real question is what are other firms going to do to match the Special Bonus? Is Cravath trying to become like Wachtell in this respect?

100th

6:03 - History means little. A firm that was a leader yesterday can easily fall behind if it doesn't keep up.

Simpson garnered all the press this year, therefore it was king of the mountain.

If this is Cravath's attempt to knock them off, they have failed.

Permanent raises are the name of the game, not one time bonuses.

Simpson has 48 hours to match or I'm accepting my offer at Cravath.

Harvard 2L: seriously, this is the determining factor for you? You aren't even going to see a bonus from them until December 2009 (pro rated, which makes it even less significant). You might want to consider a few other factors before making a decision... Not to mention that all serious firms will definitely match because they're all trying to hire megalomaniacal ignorant students like you...

So is the Special Bonus tied to hours?

Or does "special" mean that the bonus is hidden somewhere in the Partners Dining Room and I have to find it?

Is it "special" because I can elect to have it paid off in a commodity like pork bellies? If so, I choose my "special" bonus to be paid off in cabbage patch children or if they are to hard to obtain perhaps in real children. I just love children.

Well let me be the FIRST to say Thank You, CSM, for setting the bar.

you idiot 6:31 p.m.! it is SPECIAL because a Cravath partner deemed it so. period. end of story.

Well, that, and because the dollars that they pay it out in are PURPLE. THAT's what makes it special.

Look out for Davis Polk to more than match with "SO SPECIAL" Bonuses that are just that much more special.

This will enable me to pay more visits to my "special" friend who gives me "special" happy endings.

Cravath rides the short bus.

i know your special friend and she has something special for you that penecillin will not cure.

Do people think that other firms will match this special bonus also? If so, which firms? Simpson, Cleary, Latham, Sidley, Debevoise?

This is a high bar for bonus season. Thank you Cravath.

The $50,000 question is: Who matches?

Almost certainly, Simpson, Davis, Skadden, Sullivan, and the rest of the V10 will match in total comp.

From there down, it gets interesting. It's easy to see 11-15 matching, but difficult to see 50-60 matching. In other words, where will the line be drawn?

The move to $160k took its toll on the bottom of the Vault 100. You see it in increased billables and increased whispers of "performance related" associate departures.

In the end, though, this is all about the ability of the top firms to attract and retain top talent. Over the past several years, firms in the bottom half of the Vault have benefitted from parity in associate compensation, and have attracted talent that otherwise would be going to the top firms.

As for timing, it's no coincidence that we are right in the heart of the decision phase for 2Ls. A potential summer who has narrowed the list down to Cravath and other top firms is paying attention, and this bonus will easily tip the scales, all other things equal. This is an immediate boon for Cravath, as it will be looked at as a "Cravath bonus" in the early stages.

Expect Simpson, Skadden, DPW and Sullivan to match this week. From then on, it will be interesting, but this could be the start of a shift toward higher compensation at the top end of the Vault.

I don't know which other firms are matching the special bonus, 6:53, but I can say with certainty that I gave a special bonus to your mom.

Money still goes further in DC even with a special bonus in NY. NY is behind in general.

Will the newly formed Dewey and LeBoeuf make a statement and match? Is D&L ready to play in the major leagues? Will D&L show some aggressiveness and play hardball with the big guys?

6:58 is clearly an associate at Dewey LeBoeuf and is hoping that the Firm will read that comment and raise. Dream on.

Why wouldn't D&L match?

Wait, I have it on good word that Stroock just matched........

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This will take the place of salary hikes and will probably not be repeated in future years.

Shame on Cravath for announcing this the day after the Boston Red Sox won the World Series. Putting their own associates' interests above those of the game is just not right.

I bet CWT matches.

I have it on good authority that Gallion & Spielvogel have matched.

Uh oh, 7:00, should I be concerned about accepting my offer at D&L and go to a higher ranked firm that I think will start paying more?

I bet CWT matches.

7:09 (2) - Why did you accept an offer at D&L if you have offers on the table from higher-ranked firms? I have nothing against the firm (aside from the typical tierist snarkiness), I'm just a little perplexed. When you say "higher ranked firm", are you referring to V10?

4:48 - Because being FIRST is FUN!!!!!!!!

6:56 and others who do the same thing: we really need to stop looking at Vault to figure out who is going to match/raise/whatever. the AmLaw charts are much, much better in that regard, because the AmLaw charts provide the relevant underlying numbers (RPL, PPP, etc.) note how, e.g., Schulte and Cadwalader are typically no-doubters as to whatever the market does, even though they're further down on Vault. (and no, I don't work at either firm.)

obviously, going to 160, it didn't matter, because everyone matched. but if we ever get to a point that the top 10-20 or whatever start separating, I'd look to the AmLaw rankings, not the Vault rankings, to figure out who's likely to be able to keep pace.

7:16, Haven't accepted yet. Have the opportunity to go to higher ranked firms, but no V10 firms. Liked people I met at D&L, but not in love with it. If it looks like the top firms are seperating themselves from the pack in terms of comp I might just go higher.

7:22 - can you send the link to the AmLaw rankings? thanks

I can confirm that Gallion & Spielvogel have indeed matched the "special bonus." But there's more! This year, G&S is also paying a unique "successful evidence spoliation bonus" that is being generous subsidized by an anonymous "friend of the firm." Remember friends, we just as extremely prestigious as such peer firms as, say, the eminent Sullivan & Cromwell.

Gallion OUT!

There is a lot to be said for picking a firm where the fit feels right. After all, you will be spending an ung_dly number of hours at this place.

However, there is also something to be said for not eyeing the associates at the firm next door, knowing that you are working the exact same number of hours but they are making more than you (and that their freedom from student loans, downpayment, exit from BigLaw, whatever, is therefore that much closer).

A lot of you have asked me for my thoughts on this matter.

I say, Cravath is surely doing this to distract attention from the fact that one of its members has broken the cardinal rule of groppage: Thou shalt not grope children.

Even with the "special bonus," is Cravath paying more than K&E?

sorry, my firm provided me with a shiny copy of the magazine, so I don't have a link, but I assume "amlaw profits per partner" is a pretty easy google search.

Before everyone praises Cravath, consider this: I heard from a credible source at a top firm that a salary increase in the coming weeks was under serious consideration. Perhaps Cravath is trying to signal to the rest of the market not to increase salaries any further.

I would not count on Simpson or Skadden to match. They have many more senior associates than Cravath and it would be a much greater burden on them to pay all of their numerous senior assocates these size bonuses.

CWT matched and topped it with a kick in the balls.

cahill will surely match, they promise associates they will match market and are more profitable than almost all of v10

7:45 (2), WTF are you talking about? Simpson and Skadden also have a lot more partners and revenue than Cravath. You should worry about the hit on PPP, not the total cost of dishing out bonuses.

97th?

142nd!!

The best measure is Revenue Per Lawyer, not PPP, and Cravath is #3, just behind Sullivan (though looking at growth figures, not for long)

I want to kiss Evan Chesler on the mouth, very gently. This is great news.

oh, and Cravath's PPP is greater than Sullivan's...

I think that brings total comp for the most senior associates to something like $390k ($280 base + $110 bonus). I'm pretty sure that's considerably more than what junior equity partners take home for all but maybe the top 20 firms. It's highly unlikely that the #40-100 firms in Big Law can match. This bonus might finally have set the big boys apart.

Three things:

Does the "special" bonus mean that Cravath has accepted the fact that bonuses in recent years aren't bonuses at all, but really deferred compensation?

I think the numbers to look at in seeing who will match (or top) CSM are ppp and leverage. The Vault is meaningless when it comes to $$.

If your firm ties bonuses to hours, its different than those (like CSM) that don't. Comparisons between the two are basically meaningless.

rough estimate, assuming his/her mildly-prestigious-yet-notoriously-cheap-and-horribly-rated-in-associate-surveys firm matches this surprising move by cravath, what should an intrepid 5th year (i.e., class of '03) expect to take home on an 80k bonus after taxes? my rudimentary and accidental knowledge of state and federal income taxes tells me the young, hardworking associate can look forward to roughly 49500-50000 smackeroos. that sound about right?

8:27
Yea that sounds about right - be thankful you are getting it before Democrats raise taxes

The bottom line is this: Cravath has just set the standard. Every other firm is just serving big ole shit sandwiches, and all their associates are taking a bite.

Doesn't Kirkland usually match or exceed even Cravath?

8:30, many thanks.

8:30, many thanks.

Bilaam's Donkey | October 29, 2007 08:14 PM:

at my firm the first-year partners made almost double $380k last year.

it has a PPP of around 1.5m.

Can someone please make this Gallion tool stop signing all his posts with that ridiculous attempt at a catch-phrase.

It reminds me of Fred Willard's character's catch-phrase from A Mighty Wind - "Wha' happened?"

Hey, Gallion - No one cares!

Nice bump, although those numbers still won't pass Kirkland. I'm hoping that K&E will continue to maintain its victory margin over the market.

Hey Gallion - stop signing all your posts with a ridiculous attempt at a catch-phrase.

8:27 - If you're unfortunate enough to work at a firm that pays the bonus post-Jan. 1, taxes and social security will take nearly 50%, rendering the $80K closer to $40-42 when it hits your bank account. Many, many firms pay , during January, when social security is being withdrawn -- it stops being drawn around the $95K mark, i.e., somewhere between April and June, depending on class year.

DAYUMN!

i don't understand. who cares?

Orrick matched and then went bankrupt.

I feel really bad for the 2 CSM associates that didn't make hours. DOH!!!

Second?

LAT, CAN WE GET A MEMO????

Total Comp

Stub: 195
1st: 205
2nd: 225
3rd: 250
4th: 290
5th: 325
6th: 360
7th: 375

Arent their '00 and '01 bonuses what jolly investment bankers pay for a meal in one of the fancier restaurants in London?

My prediction is that most vault 100 firms will match, but that the special bonus will be a lot more subjective outside the top 10. I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of firms paid the "special" bonus in tiers based on number of hours over 2000, becoming eligible for some small amount of special bonus money at 2100 hours, but only getting the whole thing if you bill 2500 or more.

Being in the class of 2005, I'll be happy so long as I get $45k (i.e. what the class of 2006 got last year).

Gallion OUT has a double meaning.

Baker & McKenzie just announced (no, we are not McD):

Class of 2007 -- Double Whopper $45,000, with cheese $5,000
Class of 2006 -- Double Whopper $55,000, with cheese $15,000
Class of 2005 -- Double Whopper $60,000, with cheese $20,000
Class of 2004 -- Double Whopper $65,000, with cheese $25,000
Class of 2003 -- Double Whopper $70,000, with cheese $35,000
Class of 2002 -- Double Whopper $75,000, with cheese $45,000
Class of 2001 -- Double Whopper $80,000, with cheese $55,000
Class of 2000 -- Double Whopper $90,000, with special cheese $70,000 (not the same as 2001)

congratulations on the raise. i'm making 300k in my first year.

hey 10:28, is that total comp?

'MCDONALDS OF LAWFIRMS' TO 190!

Will skadden really match for all (i.e. any number of billables - i.e. regular bonus)

Good pay if you can get it, most lawyers (and MBAs) can't.

PE first years are also a lot more expendable in a bad economy. Be sure to put a lot of that $300k in the bank.

NY needs to step up salaries to the point where other markets cannot match. This is nonsense. We work harder, and the cost of living here is ridiculous. NY firms: crunch some numbers and figure it out.

NY to RAISETHATOTHERMARKETSCANNOTMATCH!!!

Lets get to 2-hundy by midnight!!!

associates on doc review to 200!

10:27 beat me to the punch...

10:52: You don't work harder, you just pretend better.

Why has no one mentioned the female summer associate who punched the male summer during the Fourth of July firm retreat at the Ritz Pasadena? I thought Cravath was above these sexist double standards.

We're still grossly underpaid compared to our peers in DC, Chicago, Houston etc. I'm a second year associate and love my job, but unless they raise the pay scale in January, or double the bonus, I'm leaving Cravath for a firm in another city. Between taxes, student loans and rent I live like a damn college student.

10:39 - You only managed 300k? Better brush up on those negotiation skills if you're gonna last in private equity.

Spot on, 10:12, it's an investment banker's meal. Thanks to Chateau Petrus.

9:12, why the hate? Big O dollars spend just as good as CSM ones.

8:42(1), you just outed yourself as a Christopher Guest lover if you actually watched "Mighty Wind." You have a friend getting paid mad money at the Big O.

Yes, 11:42, but a college student who gets to put "Cravath" on your correspondence. It's worth it. Just like being at work right now is totally worth it.

No . . . wait . . .

Sweet! Cravath first year associate compensation has broken $200k!

Thanks Cravath!

STOP MULTI-POSTING!! When you press the "post" button, WAIT FOR A GOD DAMN MINUTE!! Don't keep mashing the button like a kid with ADHD after eating all his Halloween candy!!!

STOP MULTI-POSTING!! When you press the "post" button, WAIT FOR A GOD DAMN MINUTE!! Don't keep mashing the button like a kid with ADHD after eating all his Halloween candy!!!

A+ for irony, 12:36(both)

thank you. . .some of my best work. . . I just copied his words and reposted.

I heard L&W only paid first years 27.5 last year. Anyone confirm?

10:39

If you are only getting a miserable 300K in private equity, you really should reconsider whether this is for you. If you can't hit at least 400-500K, you are not cut out for this job.

The question, if STB matches, will they pay the special bonus next week like Cravath will?

CorpAss4 (11:42)--

You live like a college student? How is that? On the 160K + 35K bonus, what do taxes take out? 90K? That leaves over 100K to live on in NYC. Sure, that's not storm the club with an entourage kinda cash, but how is it only a "college student" lifestyle?

Maybe someone could clue us into what the cost of living really comes out to being in NYC, beyond the "160K in City X = 500K in NYC"

"Special bonus is paid next week. Rest is paid at year end. Firms who want to remain top-tier will match the total (though not necessarily the timing)."

Who will match the timing?

WILL SIMPSON PAY THE SPECIAL BONUS ON NOVEMBER 9TH as well??????

"Special bonus is paid next week. Rest is paid at year end. Firms who want to remain top-tier will match the total (though not necessarily the timing)."

Who will match the timing?

WILL SIMPSON PAY THE SPECIAL BONUS ON NOVEMBER 9TH as well??????

I Confirm LW base for first year last year was 27.5 and they give no stub bonus, prorated or otherwise.

*****STOP THE PRESSES*****

Latham was 20% below market on bonuses AND gave a big fat nothing to the class of '06 last year AND tried the old switcheroo on the stipend, counting it as part of their clerkship bonus to get to market? Anyone know what PPP was?

I think these bonuses are outrageous. Some of the people I go to school with won't have a salary as much as some of these bonuses.

The thought of someone who is 25 getting that much money as a bonus is rediculous

anyone know whether the "special" bonus is pro-rated. i joined my NYC biglaw firm mid-year.

1:17 am: Although this has been done before, here is what a budget looks like in NY:

Monthly post-tax take-home: ~$6,800
If maxing out 401k: -800
Student loan payments (variable, but assuming one will only last in Biglaw for five years and wants to graduate without loans): ~2,500 (gov + private)

Thus, you are left with $3500 for the month. Have you looked at the price of a decent one-bedroom in Manhattan, where you'll want to live if you want ANY time at home outside of work? At a minimum, you're paying $2,500 in rent, leaving about $1,000 for everything else... about what a college student has to live on. The only improvement is that your apartment doesn't have roaches anymore.

3:02

Don't forget that you are forced to work in NYC...

3:02

Would you care to explain your analysis? 6800/month after tax is ~80K/year. You are saying that for the 205K total comp you are taxed at >50%? Funny considering that as a summer last year (earning the market base) I took home about 63% of net. Since you get taxed as though you are earning a full year's pay at whatever weekly rate you earn, that suggests that off base alone you should get ~100K. The bonus will be taxed around 50% outright, so you should net about 20K there for a total net take-home of around $120K or 10K/month. You subtract $3500 for rent, $2500 for loans, and dinners are on the firm most nights. Your savings rate is roughly the after-tax income of the average NYC resident which isn't terrible for first year out of school.

Your calculations suggest that people making 125K just 2/3 years ago were virtually impoverished. As a word of advice, use common sense.

As for 4:27am, the reason rent is so high in the city is that people prefer to live in NY. You save money on a car, and there are tons of free things to enjoy. I have lived here for 8 years and couldn't imagine being stuck out in Texas or Chicago etc.

Remind me again about your pension contributions... oh that's right you didn't make any over the summer. The numbers referenced at 3:02 above are correct. Where the analysis at 3:02 breaks down is with the bonus.

My class of '05 bonus last year was $50k and this year it had better be more.

$50K? Was this Kirkland?

7:08

I don't know if you realize this or not, but pension contributions are forced savings and are NOT taxes. And, as you point out, 3:02 left out bonuses entirely. Savings are different than expenses and pension contributions shouldn't be counted as expenses.

Salary Paycheck Calculator
Your Pay Check Results

Monthly Gross Pay
$13,333.33

Federal Withholding
$2,893.73

Social Security
$826.67

Medicare
$193.33

New York
$832.12

NY SDI
$2.60

City Tax
$488.42

401(k)
$800.00

Net Pay
$7,296.46

Calculation Based On

Tax Year
2007

Gross Pay
$160,000.00

Pay Frequency
Monthly

Federal Filing Status
Single

# of Federal Exemptions
1

Additional Federal W/H
$0.00

State
New York

Filing status
Single

Allowances
1

Additional State W/H
$0.00

NY SDI
Yes

NYC Allowances
1

City Tax
NYC Resident

401(k)
$800

My cost of living:

Monthly take home after taxes and insurance ~ $7200.
Rent for 1 BR = $3000
Student Loans = $2000
401k = $700
Food = $400
Transportation = $75

which gives me a little more than $1000 per month to save or spend on entertainment. If I want to have any savings at all, that certainly doesn't go very far in New York. The bonus is nice, but it doesn't make up the difference.

I was making the point that SA's do not (at least at my firm) make 401K contributions which may account for the higher take home. While it is true this is a form of forced savings, I thought the context of the conversation (i.e. I live like a college student) was with respect to cash available today.

To be clear, I don't work at Kirkland or Wachtell but it is safe to say that we compete with those firms for graduates (i.e. <V5).

I also would point out that I am not the one of my classmates who received an above market bonus from firms all over the map. While it might not have been 50K (they didn't bill 2870 either), I have seen bonuses in excess of 40K for less than 2250 hrs of work.

For example Akin, Paul Weiss, Weil, Shulte, Dewey and even PHJW paid certain performers over the stated "standard bonus" last year.

3000 for rent? Dude, youre not going to be on mtv cribs. Move over to fucking 1st ave and pay 2000.

And now, the wait begins. Who will match first!? Will it happen today? Tomorrow??

Let's get some predictions going!!

also, SAs usually don't pay for health insurance

Quartrain 23, Century 3

And the reign of the Death Star shall rise first; sadness, anger
for the second reign in the New City shall not raise until the date the Son of God was born
the Big Sons of the City of Wind shall follow
the Western Sisters shall remain silent until Capricorn rises from Mars

so 3:02 (making $160 in NYC) BRINGS HOME $297/month more than i do making $145 in Philly.

wow.

oops...i meant 7:44.

10:25:
don't get too psyched though - 3:02 will get at least a 30k bonus his first year (philly won't) and 3:02's salary will grow by anywhere from 10-20k over the next 8 years while Philly salaries grow at best from 7-10k.

Some of you are ridiculous. If you need to pay $3000 for a nice apartment in NY, you are (i) very lazy (did not bother spending a few solid days hunting around, (ii) clueless about the NY housing market (believed everything the first broker you met told you), or (iii) lying.

I (and many of my friends) pay around $2000-2300 for very nice 1-bedroom apartments. For this price range, if you are prepared to take a studio, you can be in a luxury building with a doorman. Yes, there are not many, many of these around - you have to spend a good few days looking, and speaking to various brokers and viewing 10-15 apartments. But I think it's totally worth it.

And how do you guys get to those numbers? My take home monthly pay (after deducting the firm's subsidized full health and life insurance) is around $7800 from Jan-Aug. From Sept-Dec, it rises to $8500 because they stop deducting Social Security. Throw in the $24K net bonus, I don't think it's such a bad gig. And as someone pointed out, most nights, dinner is on the client.

I think some people here are deliberately drawing the worst possible picture and ignoring the realities.

My money is on Simpson first

10:45, what would $3000 a month buy you in Houston or Chicago? Or even $2000 a month? A lot nicer apartment than you can get in NY for $3000 a month. But we will be at the office a lot more than them, so I guess it doesn't really matter how nice our apartment is.

Also are you putting money in your 401K? Those numbers seem on the high side.

10:45 -

You are paying $3000 min for a 1BR in a luxury building/fun area. People at my firm are certainly not "prepared to take a studio" and are not interested in some walk-up on the LES.

Don't forget that a lot of us are getting hit with AMT, so the amount withheld from the paycheck is NOT the limit of your annual tax liability. I have been getting hit with increasing amounts of AMT each year for several years now.

10:45: You assume everyone lives by themselves. I'm pretty sure I am not living in a Studio with my husband and dog. Clearly you haven't been in NY very long either or you would know that every year your $2300 rent is going to increase, at least $200, which will be less than the market increases. If you want a fourth floor walk-up then sure, you can easily live for around $200. If not, then you are looking at closer to $3000

I am paying $2300 for a 1-bedroom in a luxury doorman building, East 30s. My gf is paying $2200 for similar in the East 50s.

I stand by my point - if you are paying $3000 for a nice apartment (of which there are plenty), you probably took one of the first 3 apartments you saw (undoubtedly under pressure from the broker who incessantly reminds you that in NYC things go very fast and you must decide NOW!).

As to the other question, no, the numbers I quoted are before the $700 deduction for 401(k).

I'm an associate in the Hong Kong office of a US BIGLAW firm in the class of 2002. I'm also a Canadian citizen. This year I will get a $230K base and, according to this post, a $95K salary, which comes out to $325K. I also have my housing almost entirely paid for by the firm, get about $1500/month COLA (brings comp to $343K), and since I'm Canadian, I am not taxed by Canada on the income I make in Hong Kong (unlike US citizens who are taxed even on income they make abroad). I only pay income tax to Hong Kong, which is 16%, and 0% capital gains. If these bonus numbers are right, my takehome pay will be about $290,000 this year, and that's not including my capital gains on investments. I also walk to work or take the cheap and efficient public transportation here (subways are never late or flooded) and usually work late enough that I can bill dinner to the client. With hardly any rent, transportation or food expenses, I will probably put a quarter million in the bank this year. I really feel sorry for you guys in NYC paying 40-something percent taxes and $2500/month rents. At least when I was paying taxes in Canada, I got free health care and vastly cheaper tuition out of it. You guys are getting, what, flooded cities and dead Iraqis?

BTW, you should see how much the non-American i-bankers here take home, its sick.

10:37-

true, but i was surprised that even with a $15k/yr difference in gross, our net was pretty much the same. that's all.

i don't begrudge 3:02, 7:44, etc. the big bonuses and raises; em obviously needs it (and probably deserves it for working more than i do) to end up on the same financial footing in the end. my $20-30k bonuses and $10k raises will serve me just fine.

I'm an associate in the Hong Kong office of a US BIGLAW firm in the class of 2002. I'm also a Canadian citizen. This year I will get a $230K base and, according to this post, a $95K salary, which comes out to $325K. I also have my housing almost entirely paid for by the firm, get about $1500/month COLA (brings comp to $343K), and since I'm Canadian, I am not taxed by Canada on the income I make in Hong Kong (unlike US citizens who are taxed even on income they make abroad). I only pay income tax to Hong Kong, which is 16%, and 0% capital gains. If these bonus numbers are right, my takehome pay will be about $290,000 this year, and that's not including my capital gains on investments. I also walk to work or take the cheap and efficient public transportation here (subways are never late or flooded) and usually work late enough that I can bill dinner to the client. With hardly any rent, transportation or food expenses, I will probably put a quarter million in the bank this year. I really feel sorry for you guys in NYC paying 40-something percent taxes and $2500/month rents. At least when I was paying taxes in Canada, I got free health care and vastly cheaper tuition out of it. You guys are getting, what, flooded cities and dead Iraqis?

BTW, you should see how much the non-American i-bankers here take home, its sick.

Canadian - You're welcome for subsidizing your national defense for the past sixty years, so you can have free health care and look down your collective noses at us.

Where are you people finding such cheap apartments? The median for a 1-bedroom doorman is easily over $3400 in every neighborhood but LES. Average rental price for a Manhattan 1BR is $2991 for non-doorman and $3787 for doorman. Either you are living in sub-par housing (in which case I question why you work so hard for such a lifestyle) or you're just really lucky. Certainly almost anyone who has rented a decent 1BR in the past couple of years is paying at least $3000. Check out the numbers here:
http://www.tregny.com/manhattan-apt-rental-report.jsp

@11:15/11:19

But you live in HONG F'ING KONG. What a dump.

ps Canada is a joke.

Don't trust rental price reports from a broker, no matter how sophisticated they make them look. It is in their interest to report average prices being higher than they actually are, in order to convince you that you're getting a good deal on your $3200 one bedroom in a minimal-service building on 10th and 50th.

11.22 - Yes, because so many people are looking to invade North America .... you idiot. We just like to let you Yankees think you are important with your big guns and stuff.

Don't trust rental price reports from a broker, no matter how sophisticated they make them look. It is in their interest to report average prices being higher than they actually are, in order to convince you that you're getting a good deal on your $3200 one bedroom in a minimal-service building on 10th and 50th.

Anyone who says a 1br in NYC is 3000+ is completely delusional. It is not hard to find a decent 1br almost anywhere for 2000-2500, and if you find a roommate, a nice 2br for $3500. Who needs to live in the Trump when you're just starting out?

Average is also misleading because it is obviously distorted by the $50,000/month penthouses...

11:36 - This might shock you, but the Soviet Union wasn't JUST a superior hockey team that whopped your asses in the world championships every year.

The Canadian health care system sucks. If you are gainfully employed, as all of us are, you are much better off with the private American system. Not perfect, but it's unquestionably better. Why do you think Canadians come down to Mayo Clinic and other US hospitals to have certain procedures? Waiting lines and/or lack of facilities and doctors. No thanks.

Also, the Canadian system would be third-world if it weren't able to leech off of American R&D. They pay government-contract rates for the drugs and equipment that our companies have spent billions of dollars developing. If there were no profit-motive competitive system here driving the advancements, Canada's system wouldn't even be able to maintain its current mediocre level of service.

11:19 -- screw you, you sound like a penny-pinching homo. And subways in NYC flood like once a year, if that. And wow, you mean you get to work late enough so that you can bill your dinner to the client? We're really envious. Stay in Hong Kong, which sucks, as does Canada, which is a joke of a country.

OHMYGOD WHO CARES WHAT A 1-BEDROOM IN NYC COSTS WE HAVE THAT ARGUMENT EVERY TWO WEEKS LET'S HEAR ABOUT SOME FIRMS MATCHING

11:43 - not that i disagree with you re: hong kong & canada, but re: cities flooding, i assume that's a katrina ref.

the question of the day is, will firms that tie bonuses to hours (like mine) link the super happy fun bonus to the higher tranche(s) of hours (2300 or 2500), meaning that the folks who work a respectable but not overwhelming number of hours (somewhere in the 2000-2300 range, which i think we can agree is reasonable) do NOT get what cravath has made the market bonus.

11:54

I think it is very likely that firms that tie bonuses to our hours will do what you described. Indeed, Cravath's actions have actually helped ALL firms - firms that want to stand out in a way that other (lower?) firms won't follow, and firms that would prefer not to follow (because it just seems psychologically less damaging to say that "Oh, we pay the same normal bonus as any top NY firm" and ignoring the "special bonus").

If Cravath had instead raised salaries by the same amount, the pressure would be on for all V100 to follow, and indeed even all other cities too. Now, all the other cities will not be under pressure to match this, because it has generally been accepted that NY firms pay a higher bonus than LA, Chicago, DC, Boston, etc.

12:03 - Agreed. It's going to be difficult for any firm with a Cravath-like bonus structure not to match. However, firms that tie bonuses to hours, or non-NY firms will likely not feel the need to match.

This will certainly separate the top of the top from the rest.

I HEART CRAVATH --- THANKS FOR PUTTING THE PRESSURE ON W/RESPECT TO BONUSES (and thanks to abovethelaw too!)

"My cost of living:

Monthly take home after taxes and insurance ~ $7200.
Rent for 1 BR = $3000
Student Loans = $2000
401k = $700
Food = $400
Transportation = $75

which gives me a little more than $1000 per month to save or spend on entertainment. If I want to have any savings at all, that certainly doesn't go very far in New York. The bonus is nice, but it doesn't make up the difference. "

errr ... what "difference" are you talking about ... do you really want to work in Philly (& get significantly lower salary/bonus) just to save a little rent and maybe a few dollars eating lousy food when you still have all the other expenses ... i didn't think so... and while you are at it, why not look at the salary differences you can expect once you get beyond first year status

When do STB, DPW, and all the other NY firms usually announce bonuses?

11:54 is dead on.

I think all NY firms which currently pay the NY Biglaw market bonus on a purely lockstep basis (and there aren't that many of them - Sullivan, Skadden, DPW, Simpson, Cleary, Debevoise, etc.) will match Cravath (probably even using the same nomenclature - "special bonus").

All NY firms that tie the NY Biglaw market bonus to hours will continue to pay the "normal bonus" if the hours are met.

Firms in other cities will not match.

And all firms will be happy because all their objectives are achieved.

Am the only one noticing that NOT EVEN counting the 'special bonus,' the first year number went from 30k to 35k?!@ this is 5k RAISE off the bat. Someone agree with me/!?@!

I don't get why you should get paid more for choosing to live in a more expensive city. Firms with NYC + other domestic offices should, imho, pay the same at all and let their associates decide where they can get the most bang for it.

2:33 - So you're saying that firms should tell associates in NY (top legal market in the world) - after taxes, cost of living, etc., you work more and get paid less than your colleagues working in Bum-F*ck Middle-America?

1:47, that is only for the first years (presumably because they are not getting a "special" bonus) - there was no additional 5k for upper levels.

240 - yes, except you don't work harder.. The firm already pays more for your overhead (office space and staff cost way more in NY). Hey, you get an office in the greatest city in the world. Good for you. Now, why should you also get more money? I'm here, doing to same work, same hours, same client, (and I have to live in bum-f*ck). (Come to think, I should be paid MORE... Oh well.)

2:40 -- 2:33 has a point. If an associate in Chicago, Houston, or DC bills 2200 hours at $500 per hour, they bring in $1.1M in revenue for the firm. Assuming the firm's billing rates are the same in all offices (the case for at least the top firms), the same associate in NY would bring in the same amount of revenue for the firm, so why should that person be paid more? If anything, the overhead costs associated with employing someone in NYC are higher than elsewhere, so the non-NYC associate is bringing in more net revenue for the firm. Why should that person be paid less?

Is SIMPSON Matching NOW and will they pay the special bonus now, perhaps on November 15?????

If you are working New York hours in "bum-f*ck" you should leave your firm, or move somewhere better

2:51 IF the associates in those markets bill the same as associates in NY. How many Houston associates bill as much as NY associates? In Texas, if you bill 2400, you are inhuman. But 2400 is par in NY, and many bill 2800-3200.

11:22 - thanks for being part of a nation whose generous lack of self-interest led it to subsidize Canada's defense for 60 years with no corresponding benefits in return...

Canada - thanks for not cowardly sitting on the sidelines from 1914-17 and 1939-41...back when we could actually prove the bad guys had WMDS...

Love,

Europe

7:02: thanks for the years 1941-1945.

Love,

Jewish Person

FIRST!!! WOO!!1!

If you are spending $3k on a 1 bedroom, you need to get your head examined.

A $2000 payment on loans equates out to $24k/year. That's a hair more than you'd need to pay off $100k in 5 years at 7%. Do you seriously have that much debt? And if so, why not pay it out in 8 or 10 years to allow yourself a more reasonable cash flow? Particularly since your income level will continue to rise.

Finally, most of the numbers are taking 401k contributions out both before and after tax, which is idiotic.

Get over it. If a single 25 year old can't live off of $160k/year, another $20k isn't going to help or cover the necessary therapy to fix the real problem.

When is Simpson going to announce their match? Will they also pay the special bonus in November like Cravath? Anyone have ANY inside info on SIMPSON????

How about this: I'm a 2005 grad. I'll bill 2500 this year at Boies Schiller. Because we're paid based on the revenue we generate, instead of lockstep, I'll make 170 base plus a 70k-plus bonus -- take that, Cravath et al. Oh, and I didn't do a single hour of doc review this year.

Why doesn't anyone get this?

You will pay $3000/month+ on a nice 1Br apartment in a good neighborhood. I'm paying about this, though I managed to avoid a broker's fee, which is 15% saved right there.

D&L needs to get their act together. If they want to play with the big boys, they need to pay like the big boys. A non-pro-rata 1st year year-end bonus doesn't make the associates happy.

Yeah, what is up with L&W? Not only are they below the pack in terms of dollars, but they're also much later in terms of payment schedule.

attorneys aren't worth a dime until they have at least 5 years exp.

"The thought of someone who is 25 getting that much money as a bonus is rediculous"

I bet people coming out of the top 20 or so law schools know how to spell ridiculous. Apparently Cumberland students don't. Where the hell is Cumberland? (evil tail shake)

"The thought of someone who is 25 getting that much money as a bonus is rediculous"

I bet people coming out of the top 20 or so law schools know how to spell ridiculous. Apparently Cumberland students don't. Where the hell is Cumberland? (evil tail shake)

"attorneys aren't worth a dime until they have at least 5 years exp.'

ahhhhhhh.....but they are. First year asssociates make good money, and many use their law experience to seek greener pastures.

What a difference a year makes.

Can someone explain to me what on earth these people do to earn an $80,000 bonus, on top of the $200k they make?