If this WERE the NFL. Moron. And only if they were under contract for a term that had not yet been fulfilled. Otherwise, they'd just be free agents. Super moron.

Great formatting, Merck.

A&B is not what it used to be, that's for sure.

Anyone else supremely confused as to why Lat, who fastidiously checks his own grammar, spelling and syntax before posting anything before an online audience, tolerates the lack of same in Mr. Merck?

anyone else wearing a confederate flag hat right now? no, just me? ok.

anyone else have an old sallygrowler in their top left-hand desk drawer stinking up their office?

4:39 - remember, it's sh*t lawyer week II. Now leave my billy alone.

Why is Merck such a TTT? He makes Cumberland look like a top-tier.

4:31 - wrong. NFL teams get compensatory picks for players they lose in free agency (in certain situations). (The details are complicated; basically, they get picks in the draft after their first year of playing without the player in question. The compensatory picks are determined through a secret formula which appears to aggregate the performance of all free agents that a team lost and signed.)

Why is this tabloid-worthy news? I can read better written peices about this shit on NYLawyer.com.

Hi Billy, have we met?

Rusty probably left after being disappointed in not being elected managing partner of the firm. The writing was on the wall. At least he didn't take Bob Dole with him...

DLA has been snagging many, many lateral partners in the last couple of months. Irrational exuberance? Or rise of a new legal behemoth?

Hmm. DLA steals partners from A&B, which steals them from Kennedy C. I think I see a way for low-tier lawyers to move up...

A&B just can't compete here in DC or in NYC for that matter - third tier at best

Anyone else think that Merck is Lat's creation? I mean his posts are always so horrible. Is "Merck" some kind of sick joke that Lat is playing on all of us?

5:38 - in what universe is a move to DLA up from anything but an insurance defense firm or slip & fall factory?

Many of the people who would be truly sorry to see Rusty go left with him. He brought a lot of people to A&B's DC office, but was not always great at getting along with people once they were there. Many of the lateral groups that he acquired felt that they did not get what they were promised, and I think the feeling was mutual in some cases, b/c some of those groups have been a major drain on the firm's/DC office's profitability.

5:47 - A&B spy. Hope you enjoy your 5K bonus this year.

5:47 - Are you kidding me? A&B DC or DLA DC? That's not even close. A&B who?

I understand he had a reputation for being abrasive. Imagine that - an attorney that could be difficult to deal with!

The firm does a lot of things that do not make sense - like acquiring a securitization practice after the market has dried up for loans. Smart move!

4:55 --> I went to Cumberland you dolt. Apologize to me

6:03 - I apologize to no one, especially tier 4 law graduates like yourself. Now apologize to me for wasting my time.

"If he was" is (unfortunately) acceptable English these days. Also, I think you're confusing the (franchise/transition/etc.) tag system with the compensatory pick system.

Moron.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but it seems like in order to get into a position of power at most firms, you have to be a bit two-faced or do things that a lot of people would consider slimy. However, Rusty and many A&B higher ups try to pull off this Southern charm, fake B.S., and don't (didn't) seem to get that no one is buying what they're selling. He was particularly bad about playing favorites and the associates there knew whether they were on his good list or not. If you weren't, you were probably just trying to pay off some loans and get out asap. I don't know what will happen now that he is gone. Does anyone know whether the four partners are taking associates with them?

Bob Dole has a priapism right now (look it up . . . )

I find this post fitting for second-tier law school week, considering most of A&B's grads are from rancid TTTs. Why anybody with decent options would choose them -- in Atlanta or anywhere else -- is beyond me.

So true, 7:09. I'm embarrassed to admit that I was a summer associate in one of A&B's non-Atlanta offices, and the few students from top tier schools were the types that the Cumberland grads were criticizing earlier today. I decided to go elsewhere because I was not that impressed with the caliber of attorneys there, although they would certainly tell you how great and superior they are for hours if you were willing to listen.

7:34 - that's true. they definitely have a serious inferiority complex and love to try to convince their summers that they are a "top firm." unfortunately it's clear to anybody that cares to look that they are not... not even close.

Why do you say they're not a top firm?

I don't care what "they" want you to think; whether a top or bottom, ANAL SEX FEELS GREAT!!!

10:28 - Well hello A&B insider! Don't drink the Kool-Aid, if you haven't already.

Not an insider--a law student. But truly curious.

When they learned Rusty was leaving, A+B had an emergency management meeting where they offered him to be Chairman of the Firm. He declined.

6:26- is this true?

Curious as to whether Daschle and Dole will be following Rusty.

6:41 - doubtful. DLA already has a bunch of heavy hitters (Armey, Mitchell, Gephardt, etc.). Daschle and Dole would probably create too many personality conflicts and turf wars.

Wiley is getting ready to lose some folks to DLA too. Lots of worries around here that with Fielding having gone to be White House counsel a while back and the huge Blackberry payout having been made, the best days are behind us. Lot of people (partners and associates) looking for a soft landing at a firm on its way up, particularly in the Government Affairs area, which DLA seems to be.

A&B just received a Rusty Trombone you could say. . . . . .

6:41, I don't think Dole has any interest in following Rusty. The people who have already left were pretty much the "Rusty followers." I can't speak for Dole, but I don't think many of the ones left behind will miss Rusty too much. I doubt that Dole or Daschle's clients much care whether Rusty is around. Rusty who?

10:28, A&B has always been very in love with itself, with people in charge who seem somewhat blind to reality. If you run a search for "Alston," several posts will come up with more details. If the DC office can manage to survive the loss of business associated with Rusty leaving, it might be a better environment now that he is gone. Less like a fiefdom run by a feudal lord and maybe more like a law office.

9:58, I'm not that interested in reading about NBA player Rafer Alston or the town of Alston in Georgia, so how about some details posted here.

A&B's acquisition of a securitization group was poorly timed, especially considering how dead the ABS market isright now...4 partners and 10 associates to "feed" with no work? That firm does have a major inferiority complex, and they don't help themselves any by paying their associates sh*t. If you claim to be a "national" top-tier law firm, then pay like one. Maybe then you would not only have Tulane and Washington & Lee grads stumbling through work. This should be a wake-up call to A&B that they need to "up their game" so to speak.

10:07, I meant a search in the ATL search box above. But sure, I'll spend half of my billable day explaining all of the problems because you're too lazy to look them up. Here goes . . . F-off.

You guys are so vitriolic when you're anonymous. What's the point of slamming the law firm as third tier? It's a nice place to work, they pay well, and they have some interesting clients. If you want something more, go somewhere else, but spewing bitterness all over the message boards does nothing but reveal your inner pettiness... or the fact that you have too much time on your hands.

10:11, you're spending your billable day on ATL anyway, so what's the difference? I'm sure you can give a much more concise, insightful recap of A&B's issues that I could ever find by doing my own search, so let's have it.

10:17 loves him some of that A&B self-agrandizement....

DLA Piper DC is lucky enough to have it's own plastic-bucket percussion section (complete w/ cowbell and chant-squad). If you don't believe me, look outside of their new office.

Lucky dogs!

10:17, I agree that it's unnecessary to criticize A&B for hiring Tulane grads. However, if you're currently at A&B, you must know that some of the other comments about A&B's inferiority complex are true -- unless you're part of the inferiority complex.

Also, I'm not getting involved in the Atlanta salry debate, but A&B's DC and NY offices have historically lagged behind other firms on pay. Saying that is not vitriolic, it's simply a fact.

Sorry, I meant "salary," so stay off of my case, spelling police.

I'm with 5:47. DLA is the Wal-Mart of law firms. It may well be that A&B is worse, but DLA is a miserable place to work. If DLA is better than A&B, it's like transferring from UDC law school to Catholic. Either way, you're still in TTT.

It is also fair to say that billing yourself as a "top firm" and "recruiting the best and brightest" entails following along that line of reasoning in compensation. A&B does not match the top tier compensation in any of the markets in which it has offices. In Charlotte, the marked (CWT, MB, Dechert, etc...) is $160K, NYC $160K, Atlanta (JD, PW..) all at $145/150, DC is at $160 and Dallas is at $160. And when it does feign an attempt to pay market, they do so in the most compressed way possible. I don't mean this to be a salary rant, but simply an indicative comment as to how A&B markets and bills itself as top tier, byt pays and hires like a second tier firm.

Yes, I had all them typos because I myself am TT and went to W&L Law...yet more evidence of how superb A&B's hiring really is.

Well put, A+B insider. I think the reason that A+B generates so much hate from some people is that it really strives to tell anyone who will listen that it is a top tier firm, but doesn't back it up. It has not always been a "nice place to work" for every associate, either. There's nothing wrong with being a "QOL firm" that pays a little less and perhaps doesn't draw in all the Ivy grads. I personally would love to work at such a firm, which is part of the reason that I ended up at A+B. However, it was not a QOL firm for me (in terms of hours or the people that I worked for), so there was no reason to stick around for the lower pay and work as much as the guy down the street at the more prestigious firm.

It's funny how so many posters automatically attach credibility to negative comments about a firm, but automatically dismiss positive comments as trolling or buying into false hype. You're either extremely stupid or extremely insecure.

The irony of a bunch Internet users putting themselves in positions of authority to slam A&B anonymously for being in love with itself and second-tier kills me.

11:08, I think if you're a law student you have to take comments on any firm (A&B or otherwise) with a grain of salt and make the best decision you can based on your personal experiences. Hopefully you'll look back on these comments and laugh at what assholes the anonymous posters were in the future. But you should realize that you might also look back and say, "I see what they meant." I guess you don't see the irony of dismissing comments from current and former associates of the firm when you haven't even started work at A&B yet . . . And don't assume that your experience as a summer associate will be exactly the same as a permanent position.

As a aummer or law student, you really have zero basis to talk about a firm. Those currently there or that have left, even despite their vitrol, still have good insight. It may be marred by distaste for the firm, but nonetheless, their comments carry grains of truth. I was a senior associate at A&B and left to work in-house, and during my time there I was really saddened by the culture and how partners played favorites. It seemed like a sham. The image they portrayed to summers and to the "outside world" was miles away from the truth.

11:19 and 11:24,

Yes. My argument is not that posters who have negative things to say are always wrong, or that positive posters are always right. My argument is that it's hypocritical to hold insiders with positive experiences to a greater degree of skepticism than those who left with a bitter taste in their mouths.

The experience = knowledge cuts both ways. That's all.

11:08--it's not really irony to dismiss comments of current and former associates. Perhaps bad judgment?

11:24--Do firms really present a picture "miles away from the truth" during a summer program!?!? This practice must be stopped!

10:48

Why is DLA a "miserable" place to work?

I am not 10:48, but I can tell you from experience that DLA is hardly a miserable place to work... Unless of course you think decent hours, a huge client base, and great compensation is miserable.

Wow. Rusty should have negotiated a little harder for a better title:

http://www.dlapiper.com/frank_connor/

11:55,

It is irony to dismiss the positive comments, but accept the negative ones. That's my point.

Good Point 10:08. I wouldn't have the warm and fuzzies if I were an associate working in the finance group in Charlotte!

12:10 - that is hysterical.

I drank A&B's Kool Aid for a while and was admittedly suckered by their faux southern charm. I've since moved to another big firm with more street cred (not hard to find) and less "ya'lling", but a reputation for not being a great place for associates. I couldn't be happier.

11:55, the "irony" was in the idea that someone who has not yet worked as a permanent associate at a firm thinks that he or she knows more about it than the firm's current or former associates. However, 11:08 adequately responded to my point and I agree with what he or she said. By the way, thanks for responding 11:08, I wish you the best of luck at A&B even though it wasn't my cup of tea. ATL readers do have a habit of responding to every positive post with "Ben Johnson's mom" or accusations that the person is a recruiter. Some of those comments are probably a joke, but I'm sure there are plenty of associates at A&B who are happy. I also hope that no law student who reads ATL bases their opinions of a firm solely based on ATL comments.

As far as the bad judgment suggestion, of course some people who have had a bad experience at a firm may have been the cause of their own problems. However, if you have read some of the other Atlanta and A&B threads (for example, the Atlanta recruiting threads and the threads on A&B's Bar/Bri repayment policy), it sounds to me like there are a lot of people who feel the same way about A&B's inferiority complex, etc. Unless the same two or three bad eggs are making multiple posts regarding their negative experiences at the firm, which I tend to doubt. Yes, there are some firms that are not honest in their summer program hiring practices and, in my opinion, A&B is one of them. As I said, all of these comments should be taken with a grain of salt, but I think that any law student who assumes that anyone who has anything negative to say about a firm was just a dud who couldn't cut it at that firm is in for a big surprise.

LOL, 12:10, you made my day!

Any word on which associates are leaving?

Any word on when midlevel and senior associates are getting paid?

1:20, I heard that some star associates may be leaving the Charlotte office (only rumors at this point)

1:20, I heard it's still up in the air, which you probably already knew or you would not be asking. It sounds like there are a couple of associates who might go, but the firm is trying to convince them to stay.

DLA = automatic 20K bonus if you make hours (2000), matched $160, and 100 hours billable credit for pro bono.

What's TTT about that?

2:55 - I heard that rumor also, and it has been bolstered by the fact that some of the structued finance associates that came over from KC are clashing "culturally" with the A&B associates. Most people will now stick around through "bonus season" (that comment drips with irony), but I almost guarantee there will be departures in January.

>>Unless of course you think decent hours,

Compared to what?

>a huge client base,

Wal Mart

>and great compensation

You mean the same as every single other big firm?

How about sending "partners" (non equity of course) to do document review on some other firm's case? How about sending scores of your own associates to do document review ON SOME OTHER FIRM'S CASE? How about being conflicted out of any major litigation because you stupidly decided to be Wal Mart and bought up every two bit shop so that you could have a presence in every bumf*ck hicktown with a zipcode?

10:48 "DLA is the wal-mart of law firms."

Is that claim based on anything other than the number of DLA's offices? Because I have yet to have a client that has found the breadth of our firm (particularly in Europe and Asia) to be a cause for scorn. Remember, DLA is in its infancy - it is only a few years old at this point.

10:48 "DLA is the wal-mart of law firms."

Is that claim based on anything other than the number of DLA's offices? Because I have yet to have a client that has found the breadth of our firm (particularly in Europe and Asia) to be a cause for scorn. Remember, DLA is in its infancy - it is only a few years old at this point.

4:38 - "We are Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

You're right. "Wal Mart" would imply a degree of longevity and success that DLA has not demonstrated. Say, I think you have a call from someone in the Easton Maryland office who has a hot prospect for you in Zaire! Good thing you have that Lusaka office, otherwise you might not be able to capitalize on those kinds of synergies! Good luck to you sir!

Chairman of the Firm? Rusty? You got to be joking.

All of these A&B bashers should chill out. I've found that egg-heads who go to princely-perfect ivy league schools don't always want to work as hard as someone who went to a less renown school. I don't really give a damn what law school you went to - because where you go is no longer a function of how smart you are or how hard you have worked. It's now more of a matter of who you know or what you are.

5:33: did you mean "renowned"?

Just remember Einstein was a terrible speller too...

5:33, I didn't believe the statement about the emergency meeting, but if you are at A&B, I would think that you would know that Rusty was one of the four main candidates considered for the position when Ben Johnson stepped down. Therefore, the idea of him being Chairman of the Firm is not that incredible. I would guess that his departure is in large part a response to the selection of someone else. Personally, I never liked Rusty, so I won't be sorry to see him go, but you sound kind of clueless.

I disagree with the Wal-Mart comparison, but can you argue with the business model?

6:23 chairman of the firm is typically for a statesman - not someone who has the reputation for being abrasive - Rusty was widely considered the front runner so it was a surprise he was not selected. I agree with everything you wrote.

Can you please elaborate on this:

2:55 - I heard that rumor also, and it has been bolstered by the fact that some of the structued finance associates that came over from KC are clashing "culturally" with the A&B associates. Most people will now stick around through "bonus season" (that comment drips with irony), but I almost guarantee there will be departures in January.

What is the practice going to be like now that there is a defeasance/servicing group and a trustee group? Does this guarantee no chance of underwriting / issuers work being developed even though the # on the bench is much higher? In other words, should I go to just Hunton (Charlotte) or CWT? [OK, and then to A&B a few years once I've paid off my loans?]

Also, any insight into where the clashes are? Or just skirmishes everywhere, like Baghdad?

what do TTT stands for?

Re: A+B Charlotte, didn't the KC people leave / not take 2 securitization counsel (per KC website)? Or maybe those 2 are on to something in deciding not to move.

Re: A+B Charlotte, didn't the KC people leave / not take 2 securitization counsel / 1 partner (per KC website)? Or maybe those 3 are on to something in deciding not to move.

I'd rather go to Bagdad than CWT right now. The A&B servicing group is a good group of attorneys from my limited experience with them, but very busy. I don't know much about the new group.

3L, I don't know the answer to your securitization questions, but as a former associate from an A&B satellite office, I can tell you that the firm has often had culture clash issues with new groups and its satellite offices in general. I have always gotten the impression that the Charlotte A&B office had the best environment of all the firm's satellite offices, in that it managed to retain a positive culture that existed in the pre-A&B firms that were merged into A&B. At least the Charlotte associates always seemed happier than many of the associates from both Atlanta and other cities. With that having been said, I don't know that I would recommend trying to break into that group at a time when everything is in transition (and from what I have heard from inside sources, there isn't enough work to go around anyway, so they may not be looking for new associates). I also don't know that I would be thinking of A&B as a backup for once you are finished paying off your loans. It might be a nicer place to work than CWT, but it's not exactly a QOL firm.

2:56 You are right in saying the A&B Charlotte is not a QOL firm. Particularly with respect to their servicing/structured finance group, my experience (I no longer work at A&B) was that in that group, the partners, particularly one, had very strong personalities (not mincing words...abrasive). Some associates were real "gunners", others were plain out kiss-asses, and others were just miserable people. Right now they have little work going around, and when added to the fact that they just brought over 15 people from KC, I can't see how the whole department is making any financial sense right now. The timing of the acquisition was moronic. Sure, the market will come back, but to be honest, when it does, the hours at A&B will be the same as at CWT, Dechert or MB. So why not go to a real national firm and make $30K more a year???

3:17 - I completely agree. Out of the three partners in the group, only one is a decent human being. The other two spend their nights under a bridge colluding to make associates' lives miserable and counting their piles of money... I also agree with 3:17's description of some of the associates; a few were decent though...

FYI - the "other" DC partner (i.e., the one who left for DLA a few weeks before Rusty and the others) left because a conflict of interest arose between his biggest client and the firm's biggest client. Many people were reportedly not sorry to see him go, but the larger point is that particular departure is not really indicative of anything.

So if you were looking to move to CLT (say spouse won't consider living in a 500 sq ft NYC apartment) post law school for securitization. Perhaps you'd be better off to consider doing tax exempt bond work or corporate bond work instead. No so different, but you could be at a smaller firm, hopefully treated better. Or just bend over and accept that we are all in this because we can be bought? Figure out the rest once you get here? From what I'm hearing, the remaining local firms could merge before I sit for the bar.

Be careful of going to a small firm doing commercial finance work - you may find yourself working even hard due to a firm's inferiority complex.

Charlotte is generally a better choice than NY if a family-centered QOL is what you are after. Being in NY can later open up door for Charlotte though.

I just wanted to agree with those saying that DLA is a fantastic place to work.

The size of the client base and the number of offices provides MORE opportunities for interesting and exciting work. And they've worked hard to maintain a local atmosphere rather than a Wal-Mart quality.

The money and hours are comparable, the people are interesting and intelligent, and the firm is in the early stages of establishing themselves as a major player around the world. Isn't a firm on the rise preferable to a stagnating dinosaur?

1:04 spoken like a true partner...

So, if you had to pick between doing debt work elsewhere in CLT or securitization at A+B (or whatever part of securitization they do), you'd recommend the former? Don't want to be stuck going into non-busy place if the market truly tanks next summer and none of us gets jobs.

A&B Charlotte is a good choice, better than CWT in my opinion for QOL but not necessarily for quality of experience (QOE) and work.

No one has asked the most important question yet: why does Alston use a "+" instead of an "&" symbol in its logo? Could that be the cause of its problems?

1:04 - Did you happen to notice that DLA is only slightly up from its dead last position in last year's Amlaw associate satisfaction survey?

4:29 - Can you provide a link. The survey I pulled up (August 2007) shows DLA at 61 out of 164.

It looks like the formatting on this has been fixed. Much better.

Rusty was never offered chairman. Rusty got stomped for that position and left because he couldn't take the defeat. Good riddance.

any info on A+B NY?