FIRSTISH

What's the big deal, it was a teddy bear not a Hitlery doll

Only an Islamic would bring a rock to a gun fight.

These religious fanatics need to grow a pair and stop getting all red in the face all the time. What a bunch of big babies.

agreed, 10:33, christian conservatives in the u.s. definitely need to start acting like adults.

That link to the story has an awesome picture right near the top. Although it appears they have no 8th Amendment in Sudan, they appear to protect the 2nd Amendment over there.

And Islam is a religion of peace.... Right.

Crikey, now THAT's a knife!

What makes this story even more ridiculous is the fact that the teacher didn't name the bear Mohammed... it was her Mulsim students who named the bear Mohammed.

Here's a perfect chance for CAIR to denounce this brand of Islam as not the mainstream of Islamic thought and practice.

Who'll give odds on this actually happening? 100:1? 500:1?

I am withholding comment until I hear from the one true prophet, the Teddy Bear Named Mohammed.

VINDICATION AT LAST!!! MY OWN POST!!!

ETERNAL SHOUT OUTS TO LAT!!!

CRA-ZY.

somehow i don't think that "offense to religion" law protects christianity, judaism, or hinduism.

as lewis black once said, "when people take themselves too seriously, that's when things...go awry."

10:44 - Actually, the largest Muslim organization in the UK denounced the actions of Sudan, even before the violent outcry. From the moment of incarceration, they said that the teacher's actions were an innocent mistake and that no offense was intended. So...there has been an outcry from a major Muslim organization in the west, and one far more influential than those in the states.

JT likes teddies -- on his women.

What is really appalling abotu this story is the Daily Mail's atrocious grammar and punctuation.

10:42, Christianity is supposedly a "religion of peace," but that didn't stop the Spanish Inquisition. it doesn't stop christian fundamentalists from bombing women's clinics.

10:48...

Did that have anything to do with my post? I didn't say "outcry from a major Muslim organization in the West." I said, "Here's a perfect chance for CAIR to denounce this brand of Islam..."

I wasn't making a general argument about Western Islamic orgs being silent---I was taking bets on one specific American Islamic org. remaining silent.

LEGAL UPDATE: Apparently the case actually hinged on whether the Teddy Bear was merely named "Mohammed" or if the Teddy Bear was named "Mohammed the Prophet."

Trial transcript:
Judge: "Are you the one they call Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet?"
Teddy Bear Named Mohammed: "I am"
Mob: "Crucify, er, machete him!!!"

(apologies to Jesus)

Let me be perfectly clear: My name is Teddy Bear Named Mohammed The Prophet. Let the murderous rage fill the land!!! Only through murder of school teachers, aid workers, nuns and Christians can the one true Teddy Bear be honored.

P.S. He Iran, how are those nukes coming?

10:51, you're right. I guess that makes this OK.

I heard that the teddy bear just blew himself up.

I agree that American-based Muslim advocacy groups really need to vocally denounce this. It may not be fair for people to assume that those organizations' silence indicates any sort of approval for whatever controversy, but that's just the way it is. Those organizations need to leverage their visibility and scream "moderate" and "reasonable" to undercut the more sensational headlines of wacko fundamentalists.

The picture Lat posted is horribly offensive to The Prophet (P.B.U.H.)

DOWN WITH ABOVE THE LAW!

10:51, and when those crazies bomb abortion clinics, there is outcry from nearly every major mainstream church denouncing the action, even in the face of their opposition to abortion.

I really hope somebody starts selling Mohammed The Prophet teddy bears. Maybe then all these nutbags will have a collective aneurism and die.

10:51, what? Christianity doesn't stop me from bombing clinics? Yeehaw. Excuse me, gotta go make some bombs.

So why does the picture of Mohammed the bear have to be white???

So naming all your kids Mohammed is fine, but naming a stuffed animal Mohammed is an affront to Islam? Maybe the class chose the name because it's the most popular name in Sudan, and almost everyone has a relative/friend named Mohammed. Then again, just to be safe, the teacher should probably die.

10:53:

no, it doesn't, and the fact that you interpreted my comment to infer such shows that you missed the point entirely. simply b/c some members of a religion pervert it for their own selfish ends doesn't impute that behavior to all other members. just b/c some muslims are violent doesn't mean Islam is violent; just b/c some christians are violent doesn't mean christianity is not a peaceful religion.

Don't stone me bro!!!!!

10:54, that's what I was getting at. As the prior poster noted, Muslim groups worldwide are getting better at doing this, but CAIR's report card is, well, not as good as the elementary school's that named the teddy bear Mohammed

10:56(2) - I am with you 100%... but there is no way we could ever be so lucky.

10:52/1 - Then, in that case, your statement is really just political posturing. The actions of the UK org are far more symbolic, as the community there is frequently more religiously conservative and radicalized. Plus, the woman stuck in this situation is British. Does the CAIR get involved in situations like this, anyway?

10:57...something about thou shalt not kill..something something. Eh, must not be important

10:58 (1), no you were the one who inferred my initial comment about CAIR incorrectly. Never once did I say that Islam wasn't a "religion of peace." Since you and a couple others didn't seem to get the more subtle post I made, I'll spell it out for you.

Regardless of whether or not Islam is or is not a peaceful religion, there is an image of it as a violent and backwards religion in the West. This image is reinforced by such instances as the teddy bear fiasco. If mainstream Muslims in the US want to help their cause and overcome the stereotype (again, taking NO STAND HERE on whether or not is a fair stereotype) that theirs is a religion of violence, now would be a good time for CAIR (the largest and most influential Muslim political group in the US) to stand up and say something.

Look the woman broke the law and should suffer the consequences. Granted, it's a stupid law, but that's their law. If you want to lobby to change the law, so be it. Just don't condemn the government for enforcing its laws.

Please do not try and compare Christians to the One True Religion.

You think anyone ever took to the streets for Teddy Bear Named Jesus? Or burned down buildings for political cartoons of Jesus?! Oh sure, they have a few abortion bombings (what, two?)--my followers slaughter more FELLOW MUSLIMS in factional disputes everyday, than were ever killed by abortion clinic bombings. I invented suicide bombing. Teddy Bear has inspired the largest attack on U.S. soil -- killing more americans than the ENTIRE IMPERIAL JAPANESE FLEET. Do Christians ever have honor killings, honor rapings, hand choppings or suicide bombings? Do Christians, both, deny the Holocaust occured and call for its repeat? Do Christians forbid women to drive, vote or go to school? Christians big complaint is STOPPING killing of fetuses...Teddy Bear encourages and even allows forced abortions. But, before I defend Teddy Bear Named Jesus... the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If liberals hate Christians then Teddy Bear Named Mohammed welcomes you with open arms.

Mohammed is a fag.

11:04,

No, CAIR doesn't do anything in situations like these, and that is precisely the problem! The actions of the UK org. are more symbolic, but not in the US. Even though the woman is British, there are major headlines in the US that will be interpreted as "Muslims wielding swords want to kill British teacher because of what her students named a toy bear." What moderate Sudanese or British Muslims say will have little impact on our shores.

I don't care if this happened on Mars to Marvin the Martian, and neither does the bigoted individual who says "Gosh, all Muslims wield swords and overreact to the smallest things." The perception is here in the U.S., and the largest and most influential U.S. org. should say SOMETHING. Do you disagree?

If that means I'm engaging in "political posturing" (whatever that means), then I guess so....

Please do not try and compare Christians to the One True Religion.

You think anyone ever took to the streets for Teddy Bear Named Jesus? Or burned down buildings for political cartoons of Jesus?! Oh sure, they have a few abortion bombings (what, two?)--my followers slaughter more FELLOW MUSLIMS in factional disputes everyday, than were ever killed by abortion clinic bombings. I invented suicide bombing. Teddy Bear has inspired the largest attack on U.S. soil -- killing more americans than the ENTIRE IMPERIAL JAPANESE FLEET. Do Christians ever have honor killings, honor rapings, hand choppings or suicide bombings? Do Christians, both, deny the Holocaust occured and call for its repeat? Do Christians forbid women to drive, vote or go to school? Christians big complaint is STOPPING killing of fetuses...Teddy Bear encourages and even allows forced abortions. But, before I defend Teddy Bear Named Jesus... the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If liberals hate Christians then Teddy Bear Named Mohammed welcomes you with open arms.

EMbrace the religion of peace!

Please do not try and compare Christians to the One True Religion.

You think anyone ever took to the streets for Teddy Bear Named Jesus? Or burned down buildings for political cartoons of Jesus?! Oh sure, they have a few abortion bombings (what, two?)--my followers slaughter more FELLOW MUSLIMS in factional disputes everyday, than were ever killed by abortion clinic bombings. I invented suicide bombing. Teddy Bear has inspired the largest attack on U.S. soil -- killing more americans than the ENTIRE IMPERIAL JAPANESE FLEET. Do Christians ever have honor killings, honor rapings, hand choppings or suicide bombings? Do Christians, both, deny the Holocaust occured and call for its repeat? Do Christians forbid women to drive, vote or go to school? Christians big complaint is STOPPING killing of fetuses...Teddy Bear encourages and even allows forced abortions. But, before I defend Teddy Bear Named Jesus... the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If liberals hate Christians then Teddy Bear Named Mohammed welcomes you with open arms.

EMbrace the religion of peace!

Thanks for proving how out of touch you are, 10:37. Do you really think Islamist theocrats are even remotely similar to the so-called "right wing" in this country? That's the best laugh I had all day.

If the Brits couldn't get Gordon out of Khartoum, I don't see how they're going to save this lady.

What the Council on American-Islamic Relations has to do with some British woman in Sudan is beyond me.

I just don't see a CAIR-Bear connection.

Hasn't it been many years since an abortion clinic was bombed? Wasn't Eric Rudolph really the only guy out there doing it? That sounds more like one whacko than anything you could attribute to a group.

Also, maybe you guys should find some more recent examples of Christian extremism than stuff that is ancient history (i.e. Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, etc.). I don't think anything on a large scale (say, more than 1,000 people involved) has happened in many hundreds of years.

"Mohammed is a FAG"?!?!

Do you mean Mohammed or Mohammed the prophet? Becuase either way someone is getting the death penalty.

Teddy Bear countries have the death penalty for homosexuality. I am glad these american "liberals" have not called on Teddy Bear to accept gay shiekhs.

Seriously, the more stupid retarded things like this happen, the less and less credible (not that islam was credible lately anyway) islam becomes. Seriously, its a fucking teddy bear named by THE KIDS, not by her.

Where is the outrage and rioting from the so-called "moderate" Muslims? Their silence can only be seen as implied approval - and another reason why muslims cannot bitch about how they are treated over here.

You think that if an african-american did something like that, there wouldn't be al sharpton and jessie jackson all over the media? seriously.

anyone who compares these animals to christian fundamentalists (other than those 2 or 3 guys who blow up abortion clinics) should be riddled with bullets and have their bullet wounds peed on by someone with SUPERAIDS.

Someone has to eradicate anyone who is capable of such twisted, broken logic in the name of PCism to save the human race. The sheer, mind-blowing, bowel loosening stupidity of such a comparison calls for the immediate removal of such person's dna from our gene pool.

How come every time a crazy muslim does something, some guy mentions the Inquistion? WTF!?!

How come every time a crazy muslim does something, some guy mentions the Inquistion? WTF!?!

10:48, you're a moron, and so is the organization you mentioned--so they (and you?) apparently think this woman should go to jail if it was not an innocent mistake and if she intended to insult islam? are you kidding? I don't care if she pissed on a picture of mohammed, she shouldn't be in jail for it, and until these groups are willing to defend one's right to do that, they are no better than these idiots in sudan

When was the last time a fundie bombed an abortion clinic? it certainly wasn't in this decade. That being said, not a day goes by that somewhere in the world a follower of the one true Prophet, blessed be his name, does not chop some missionary's head off on the internets.

People who are defending islamic atrocities by invoking the threat of christian fundamentalism are indeed comparing apples to suicide vests.

Funny story. Only a few decades ago, many Christians in this country used to kidnap, torture, and murder blacks. Sometimes they even made it a family outing, bringing the kids and taking pictures next to the burned corpse. Other Christians attacked blacks with guns, rocks, sticks, or fists for trying to vote or go to school. So please, get off this Christian moral authority. The reality is that most religions have fanatics that commit egregious atrocities in the name of the religion. Christianity has been no different.

Further, I call shenanigans on Teddy Bear Named Mohammed. He is actually Teddy Bear Named Abraham, a Jewish bear.

11:24, the picture of a woman peeing on a picture of Mohammed is far funnier than a man doing it.

How come atheists/agnostics get a pass?

Stalin, Pol-Pot, Castro, Lenin -- all communist and avowed atheist -- have the largest body counts of the 20th century.

10:42: the Spanish inquisition killed 3000 people over 400 years. More have been killed in a single day in the name of Islam and atheism. I'm sorry you hate Christianity. there are certainly people who don't follow its tenets. the difference is in the founders--Jesus was a peaceful guy; tell me with a straight face that Teddy Bear was

How come atheists/agnostics get a pass?

Stalin, Pol-Pot, Castro, Lenin -- all communist and avowed atheist -- have the largest body counts of the 20th century.

11:26 - that's a stretch. Get off your race soap box.

How come atheists/agnostics get a pass?

Stalin, Pol-Pot, Castro, Lenin -- all communist and avowed atheist -- have the largest body counts of the 20th century.

Christians, Muslims, Jew, et al

Stop using my name to justify your homicidal tendencies or I will smite you all!!!

Wikipedia has the facts on abortion clinic violence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence

Such violence is almost as bad as 9/11.

Hypo: (1) A foreign school teacher is in Harlem and names her Teddy Bear "Nigger". She is walking down street with "Teddy Bear Named Nigger" and is killed -- or merely mobbed.

(2) What if, instead, one of the black school children had named the Teddy Bear?

Discuss possible international outrage, fundamentalist christian reaction/blame, African-American reaction, and media coverage. (100 points)

11:29,

You missed the point. It's not a race soapbox. It's merely pointing out that Christians have also been guilty of egregious acts.

Sudan people are a loving and wonderful community. Try and show a little cultural sensitivity. Bottom line, you cannot go around Muslim countries enraging them.

Funny story. Only a few decades ago, many Christians in this country used to kidnap, torture, and murder blacks. Sometimes they even made it a family outing, bringing the kids and taking pictures next to the burned corpse. Other Christians attacked blacks with guns, rocks, sticks, or fists for trying to vote or go to school. So please, get off this Christian moral authority. The reality is that most religions have fanatics that commit egregious atrocities in the name of the religion. Christianity has been no different.

Further, I call shenanigans on Teddy Bear Named Mohammed. He is actually Teddy Bear Named Abraham, a Jewish bear.
===============================

Several points here. First, like you said that stuff happened decades ago, two or more whole generations ago, and isn't relevant to this discussion. Second, those things weren't done in the name of Christianity, they were done as a result of racial bigotry and hatred, not religious zealotry. Third, there weren't any hugely widespread groups (organized and numbering in the thousands) doing it. It was more small groups in backward parts of the country.

Does this mean the kids will be executed as well?

In the hypothetical the only debate is whether the Christians bomb the school before or after the Muslims chop off her head.

Where does Al Sharpton fit in?

The inquisition massacred countless innocent civilians, the Christian wars of Europe cost countless lives, and more recently, slavery was justified through Christianity, Christians bomb clinics, and timothy Mc Veigh blew up innocent civilians in oklahoma. Does that mean that all other faiths should hate Christianity?

Relatedly, the wicked zionistic regime currently perpetuates one of the worst genocides in recent history and continuously carries on a Palestinian holocaust everyday in Palestine. Does that mean the Jewish faith should be condemned?

Interesting how these people make derogatory comments about Islam, yet I can bet my life that they have no idea of its true teachings.

Funny how petty they all look when its abundantly clear that their ideas are based on fear and hate. I never ceases to amaze me how alleged members of the legal profession jump to conclusions, cannot entertain ideas without accepting them, and simply base their judgments of what can most aptly be described as the fox “fair and balanced” perspective.

What a bunch of losers. Why don’t you study Islam for yourself? Scared that it might not live up to the vicious reputation that ignorance had built it as? Scared that it might expose your steadfast teachings as shams?

For all you “religious” people that chastise Muslims and make all these unsubstantiated allegations against other faiths, as yourselves if god would approve of your slander and backbiting, even if you disagree with a practice. WWJD–What would Jesus do?

Teddy Bear Named Mohammed is a transparent poseur.

11:32, thanks for the article. I found this most-telling:

"Nearly all mainstream pro-life organizations reject violence as a form of opposition to abortion"

Who is giving odds on whether the same will be said here, in the U.S.?

First, What is the point of invoking Christian abuses in the past? Does that somehow moderate or excuse Muslim behavior? How is past behavior (by anyone) relevant to current behavior?

Second, any abuse by Christians (or in the Name of christians) has been denounced, outlawed, and thrown in the face of Christians for decades or centuries by Liberals.

Third, Muslims have a history of abuse, slaughters, genocide, wars -- just like Christians. The difference is that Muslims ARE STILL DOING IT.

So, again, I ask, what relevance does past Christian behavior to current events?

First, What is the point of invoking Christian abuses in the past? Does that somehow moderate or excuse Muslim behavior? How is past behavior (by anyone) relevant to current behavior?

Second, any abuse by Christians (or in the Name of christians) has been denounced, outlawed, and thrown in the face of Christians for decades or centuries by Liberals.

Third, Muslims have a history of abuse, slaughters, genocide, wars -- just like Christians. The difference is that Muslims ARE STILL DOING IT.

So, again, I ask, what relevance does past Christian behavior to current events?

11:26 - shut up anyway. It's old already.

The beauty part is this woman is probably a Jew-hating Nazi like most of the British, and thought she was doing such a great thing spreading progressive learning among the oppressed of Islam. The fascistic elements of extreme Islam in Sudan naturally did not bother her -- the Zionists make them lash out this way!

Oh, did I say "lash"?

11:26 makes an excellent point. Blacks were lynched and abused in Jesus' name for centuries here and it was up to the godless atheists to put a stop to it. If only I could remember what Dr. Martin Luther King's day job was. Anyone?

Still doesn't excuse those Christian's who beheaded the "Piss Christ" guy. Or the elephant dung Mary guy. But who's counting anyway?

Well, considering Christianity is 600 years older than Islam, we should be gaging what Christians were doing in the 1400s. That doesn't bode too well for Christians.

Additionally, the KKK is a Christian organization. At the time these attorcities were going on, where was the Christian outrage? Further, don't be fooled into thinking it was just small pockets. People would come out in masses to watch the lynching.

First, What is the point of invoking Christian abuses in the past? Does that somehow moderate or excuse Muslim behavior? How is past behavior (by anyone) relevant to current behavior?

Second, any abuse by Christians (or in the Name of christians) has been denounced, outlawed, and thrown in the face of Christians for decades or centuries by Liberals.

Third, Muslims have a history of abuse, slaughters, genocide, wars -- just like Christians. The difference is that Muslims ARE STILL DOING IT.

So, again, I ask, what relevance does past Christian behavior to current events?

Wikipedia has the facts on abortion clinic violence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence

Such violence is almost as bad as 9/11.
==================================

Did you actually read the article? Only 7 people have ever been killed in the US as a result of abortion clinic violence. That is hardly comparable to Columbine, much less 9/11.

"To read the Bible without horror, we must undo every thing that is tender, sympathising, and benevolent in the heart of man."

Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

Cats don't need religion and they seem to be a lot happier than humans.

11:47
"Such violence is almost as bad as 9/11" = JOKE

11:42: Narrowly tailored question: Please enlighten us to Islams true teaching on Homosexuality. What does the Koran say and how do "true" muslims feel on the issue?

Cats don't need religion and they seem to be a lot happier than humans.

11:42
Perhaps you could tell us the "true teachings" of Islam on the Jew. What does the Koran say about the Jew? how do Muslims feel about Jews?

Teddy Bear Named Muhammed--I'll admit yesterday I thought you were kinda lame. But you've won me over to your cause with 11:11

Cats are Buddhist, jackass.

Some of you blockheads/devil's advocates need to distinguish between mainstream Christianity today and Christianity's past. These days, any violence done in the name of Jesus Christ is condemned by the vast majority of those who speak on behalf of Christians. And let's not even get into the irrelevance of the Bible.

The same cannot be said about those who commit violence in the name of Islam.

No comment on the idea that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians.

her distraught daughter doesn't look all that distraught in that pic.

"Additionally, the KKK is a Christian organization. At the time these attorcities were going on, where was the Christian outrage?"

It was everywhere. Large-scale outrage that these racist a**holes were using the name of Christianity to kill people on the basis of race. Were you not alive then? Are you unable to research history?

11:55(1)

You are under a misapprehension.

Buddhists don't eat from sundown to sunrise and refrain from using a high, luxurious bed.

At least that Wikipedia tells me.

11:55(1)

You are under a misapprehension.

Buddhists only eat from sunrise to noon and refrain from using a high, luxurious bed.

At least that Wikipedia tells me.

Gotta love how every issue delves into black persecution.

11:56,

Actually, it is you who need to do a little research. I'm not talking about a few years ago. I'm talking about when lynchings were common and those in the community were silent. I'm sure it was a matter of personal safety, but none-the-less, they didn't say shit. Sure people several hundreds or thousands of miles away might have whispered, "you shouldn't do that." But the people who were local and could have done something chose to do nothing.

I think it's time for Muslims to have their Enlightenment, or go the way of the Dodo. Where are the Muslim Isaac Newtons, Thomas Jeffersons, Martin Luther Kings?

Teddy bear should have kept is original name, Cassius.

12:02.

Are you honestly denying that Christian leaders, both black and white, spearheaded the abolition and civil rights movements?

12:03,
The Muslim Enlightenment came and went back in the Middle Ages when Christian Europe was a barbaric backwater and the Middle East was the center of learning and civilization. Unfortunately that civilization was submurged under a rising tide of religious fundamentalism, which is exactly what will happen to the West if the religious right has its way here.

I'm completely aghast that crazy-assed Sudanese are rallying by the thousands to call for her execution. (What, they've solved that little tussle in Darfur?)

Look on the bright side: Blasphemy hasn't been so popular since the Inquisition. Everybody's doing it. Have you got what it takes to be a world-class blasphemer? Gator has prepared a little pop quiz to help your readers judge their SQ (*Sacrilege Quotient).

Just click to start your test ...

Just for arguments sake, let me outline my beliefs:

Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet:
1) Supports the killing of Sunni's by Shiites (or vice versa)
2) Supports training children to be suicide bombers
3) Forcing women to wear full veil and slashing by razor any uncovered women
4) Killing the Jew "wherever you find him" ( I actually wrote that one down)
5) Wiping Israel off the map
6) Never touching the Jew (including shaking his hand at peace conference in Annapolis)
7) Never recognize the existence of Israel
8) Honor killings
9) Honor Rapings
10) Numerous death penalty offenses
11) Hand chopping
12) No pork
13) Jihad (one of my tenants); not to be confused with the "religion of peace"
14) Intifada
15) No voting rights for women
16) Killing christians
17) Killing Buddhists
18) Some say my religion is "hijacked" by fanatics. These people are almost always non-muslims speaking out of turn.
19) If there is such thing as a "liberal" muslim, he must die.
20) Family killing of any converts from Teddy Bear.
21) Killing homosexuals
22) All of the above are subject to interpretation by clerics -- especially if such interpretation leads to more death and destruction.
23) No cleric will ever denounce another clerics decision under 22 (so far, so good)
24) The Koran is not to be translated from Arabic
25) Stoning of adulteresses and fornicators
24) Oh, I almost forgot, and Fasting and Praying

Can I get an amen?
Love,
Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet

Just for arguments sake, let me outline my beliefs:

Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet:
1) Supports the killing of Sunni's by Shiites (or vice versa)
2) Supports training children to be suicide bombers
3) Forcing women to wear full veil and slashing by razor any uncovered women
4) Killing the Jew "wherever you find him" ( I actually wrote that one down)
5) Wiping Israel off the map
6) Never touching the Jew (including shaking his hand at peace conference in Annapolis) unless you are killing him.
7) Never recognize the existence of Israel
8) Honor killings
9) Honor Rapings
10) Numerous death penalty offenses
11) Hand chopping
12) No pork
13) Jihad (one of my tenants); not to be confused with the "religion of peace"
14) Intifada
15) No voting rights for women
16) Killing christians
17) Killing Buddhists
18) Some say my religion is "hijacked" by fanatics. These people are almost always non-muslims speaking out of turn.
19) If there is such thing as a "liberal" muslim, he must die.
20) Family killing of any converts from Teddy Bear.
21) Killing homosexuals
22) All of the above are subject to interpretation by clerics -- especially if such interpretation leads to more death and destruction.
23) No cleric will ever denounce another clerics decision under 22 (so far, so good)
24) The Koran is not to be translated from Arabic
25) Stoning of adulteresses and fornicators
24) Oh, I almost forgot, and Fasting and Praying

Can I get an amen?
Love,
Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet

Everybody must get stoned.

"Gotta love how every issue delves into black persecution."

The only reason black persecution is even an issue is because someone hijacked an example about Christian silence during persecution by Christians and chose to focus on the black persecution aspect instead of the main point which was Christian apathy.

12:06,

No, what I'm saying is that the majority of Christians were either silent or in opposition to the civil rights movement.

Execute the students, too. They are the real blasphemers.

12:07: You don't know true islam. The things you mention are all fundamentalist islam and most things merely practiced in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, indonesia, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Oman, parts of London and india.

You need to better understand Islam. How about the UAE? Dubai anyone?

"Sure people several hundreds or thousands of miles away might have whispered, 'you shouldn't do that.'"

No, there really was widespread outrage and outspoken condemnation.

And I don't fault moderate Muslims in Sudan (or anyone opposed to lynchings in areas where lynchings were prevalent) not speaking out---you're right, it's a matter of personal safety. No such personal safety issue in the U.S. today.

12:07 is ignorant

1) Islam’s teaching on homosexuality is parallel to that of Catholicism.

2) Islam does not have a “teaching” on jews. Nonetheless, the Quran does chronicle the acts and omissions of people in the biblical period. Most of who are Jewish.

3) When jews were being persecuted all over the world, Muslim countries gave them shelter and refuge. Even in the early days, when other faiths were executing jews, Muslims afforded them asylum and allowed them to practice their religion openly.

4) There is a large Jewish population in Iran and other Islamic countries. Let me stop you before you even start; these are not “self hating jews” as people characterize any jew who lives civilly with Muslims or opposes the holocaust of the Palestinian people.

5) Muslims do not hate/single out jews. The source of the friction is the way Israel kills, rapes and arbitrarily jails Palestinian people. Some of who are Christians. Muslims have a problem with Israel and the Zionist who perpetuate the Palestinian holocaust.

Please see article below from http://www.christiannewswire.com/index.php?module=releases&task=view&releaseID=372

1. Christian Newswire/ -- In response to Texas congressman Michael McCaul’s resolution on the plight of Palestinian Christians, Open Bethlehem’s chief executive Leila Sansour, a Christian from Bethlehem, has sent a letter to congress expressing her community’s shock at the gross misrepresentation of the real threat facing Christians of the Holy Land and has urged congress to pay heed to the real threat to the oldest Christian community in the world.

The letter dated 13 June states: “We are disappointed by the latest resolution drafted by congressman McCaul and congressman Crowley purporting to act on our behalf. The resolution seriously misrepresents the situation facing Christians in the Holy Land”.

The ill-conceived resolution accuses the Palestinian Authority of discrimination towards their own Christian community and blames it for the current wave of emigration of the Christians from the region. The resolution was drafted without any consultation with churches or Christian organizations in the Holy Land.

The resolution ignores the numerous calls from churches in Jerusalem and Bethlehem - and the overwhelming body of reports from international human rights organizations - that warn of the devastating effect of the Israeli system of closure, collective punishment and the construction of the wall. In the Holy City of Bethlehem, the wall forcefully expropriates most of Bethlehem’s valuable land and historic landmarks, depriving many Christian families of their homes, barring access to family and jobs in Jerusalem and all the lands that are on the other side of the wall.

By perpetuating the misconception that it is their Muslim neighbors and the Palestinian Authority who are creating this crisis, rather than policies imposed by the Israeli government, congressman McCaul is further entrenching the problems facing the Christian community rather than helping to address them.

The Open Bethlehem campaign was created to address the state of emergency in Bethlehem with full support from the Patriarchs of the churches in Jerusalem and all Bethlehem Civil institutions. His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI received the first Open Bethlehem passport, lending his support to the campaign alongside international figures such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu and President Jimmy Carter.

Open Bethlehem is encouraged by the interest shown by churches and church leaders across the US and the work of rep.Henry Hyde who has sought to bring congress’s attention to the plight of Christians in Palestine.

In a letter to the White House last Friday, Rep. Hyde stated that the Wall and expanding settlements are, “irreversibly damaging the dwindling Christian community."

The report says that "the Bethlehem area is home to over 20 Israeli settlements and there are plans to build more. The settlements and the barrier completely encircle the Christian triangle of Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit Sahour (Shepherd’s Field)." In addition to causing housing and land shortages, "this construction physically obstructs the Bethlehem community from its spiritual, cultural and economic lifeline in Jerusalem."

Since 2000, approx. 3,000 Christians from Bethlehem have emigrated. The UN states that: “This economic emigration will have a long-term impact on the multi-cultural character that has defined the city of Bethlehem for centuries.”

Leila Sansour says: “Palestinian Christians could very soon become unsustainable as a community. Their erosion will mean an end to sacred Christian traditions that go back to the time of Jesus, and an end to the presence of Christianity in the Holy Land. At this critical time it is imperative that Christians around the world act and speak responsibly about this issue. It is imperative that those who want to see an open, democratic and peaceful Middle East engage honestly with our plight.”

Church leaders from across the Christian denominations have criticised the resolution. In the letter to US congress Open Bethlehem has urged the formation of a fact finding mission from congress that would help representatives become closely informed about the situation.
Full text of the letter and resolution see www.openbethlehem.org

Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet is really Jewish.

The whole world should be up in arms about what Israel and the Zionist are doing in perpetuatING the Palestinian holocaust, not just muslims.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Wow, the Spanish Inquisition. What's next, the Gunpowder Plot? Get real.

12:13 - you just mentioned a lot of places with a lot of people. And that's what really scares me. Can you think of another example beyond Dubai as an example of progressive and moderate muslim societies? I don't think there are many.

12:07, you had me up until the 'no pork' restriction...I will honor Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet with all my being so long as I can eat me some pig.

12:22: See rule 22.

You can eat pork if you agree to kill somone or blow something up.

11:42(2): I think you're right, some of the teachings of Islam might be helpful. Here are a couple of gems from the Koran:

"Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime" (5:57).

"Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55-56).

11:52: Despite what 12:17 says, here is one nice thing the Koran has to say about Jews:

"You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment... You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans..." (5:80-82).

Teacher allows our Muslim students to name a cute teddy bear Mohamed, the most popular name in our genocide ridden shit hole of a country. What is the appropriate response in this circumstance?

First, saw head off anyone that makes the insecure Muslims feel inadequate about the all powerful prophet.
Second, blame Israel/Christians.
Third, reaffirm that Islam is religion of peace.
Fourth, repeat.

I take back everything I said. I'm such a total tool.

Don't forget - Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet also forbids the payment/acceptance of interest. If it was up to TBNMP, there would be no "subprime meltdown"

These country's and morons are the reason we invented the A-Bomb...it is time to start using them, now!

Liberals never cease to amaze me with their cultural relativism. A substantial portion of 1 billion people who identify themselves as Muslims think they are living in the 12th century. Call them whatever you want, but the fact remains that the beliefs and practices of these people violate human rights and result in the death, dismemberment, and oppression of millions of people. The reaction to Teddybeargate shows just how laughable their beliefs are and how childish their mentality is. If it weren't for the fact that they chanced upon an abundance of fossil fuels, they would be entirely irrelevant in the modern world.

TBNMP to STONED!!!

true story: i actually have a teddy bear named mohammed. he was given to me by my dad's college roommate from iran... who is named mohammed. mo thought it was cool that i gave the bear his name. naturally, that probably means we should both be put to death, in shallah...

regarding the whole christian fundamentalist vs. muslim fundamentalist throw down - violence committed in the name of any religion is morally reprehensible. that fact that christians committed numerous atrocities in the past doesn't excuse muslims for their violence today. christians finally figured out that it's not cool to go around killing people for affronts to their religion. when will the muslim world get the memo that religiously motivated murder is no longer hallal?

re atheist murder: causation/correlation. mao and stalin murdered their people in the name of communism, not in the name of no-godism.

These people are fucking animals.

PLEASE SOMEONE NAME ONE SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO THE WORLD THAT THE MIDDLE EASTERN MUSLIM CULTURE HAS CONTRIBUTED IN THE PAST 1500 YEARS. I'M CURIOUS B/C I CAN'T THINK OF ONE THING RELATED TO HUMANITY/HUMAN WELFARE, EDUCATION, ART, SCIENCE, LITERATURE, MUSIC THAT THEY CAN CLAIM AS THEIR OWN ACHIEVEMENT.

THE ONLY THINGS I CAN THINK OF ARE HOOKAH AND TORTURE TECHNIQUES.

11:46: Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao, among other atheists, killed more people on a DAILY basis than the number of people who were lynched during all of American history. Get a sense of perspective.

And here is a quote to preempt the tired liberal Democrat line that Hitler was a Christian:

Hitler on Christianity and Islam: "‘You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?’"

Teddy Bear Named Mohammed the Prophet:

As long as I have license to eat pig ("they taste gooooood"), I'm all yours.

British teacher has to be Mossad, and this whole incident was orchestrated as part of the grand Zionist conspiracy to subjugate Muslims. Check your facts people some of the worst incidents in recent history is the result of Zionist meddling. Hurricane Katrina, SoCal Fires, Red Sox victory, ATL, and finally the teddy bear named Mohamed--all these events events can be directly tied to Zionist machinations. People do your research, learn the facts.

one more thing from yesterday: applebees? try masa.

Now, you know to the 2nd power -

Your linked article has no bearing on statement #5.

While I do not think anyone would deny the hardship to the Palestinian people the term "Palestinian Holocaust" is a misnomer.

PLEASE SOMEONE NAME ONE SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO THE WORLD THAT THE MIDDLE EASTERN MUSLIM CULTURE HAS CONTRIBUTED IN THE PAST 1500 YEARS. I'M CURIOUS B/C I CAN'T THINK OF ONE THING RELATED TO HUMANITY/HUMAN WELFARE, EDUCATION, ART, SCIENCE, LITERATURE, MUSIC THAT THEY CAN CLAIM AS THEIR OWN ACHIEVEMENT.

THE ONLY THINGS I CAN THINK OF ARE HOOKAH AND TORTURE TECHNIQUES.

12:52 - Cat Stevens

Number of heretics burned during the Spanish Inquisition's 350-year history: Between 600 and 4,000, depending on the source.

Number of "infidels" slaughtered by Islamists *on a yearly basis*: Way more than 4,000, regardless of the source.

wonder what would happen if we carpet-bombed Khartoum with plush teddy bears wearing shirts that said "Mohammed"?

Fed Soc steps in to steal the thread again. That's why he's king of the ATL fictional characters, folks. TBNM, you can't hold Fed Soc's jock.

For an account of atrocities committed by Islamist terrorists, see here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Short summary of the past 10 days:

11/30/2007 Somalia Borbhere 1 0 A man is shot to death in a mosque by three Islamic radicals.

11/29/2007 Somalia Mogadishu 15 23 Islamic militants open fire on a security team hunting for munitions in a residential area. Some fifteen civilians are killed.

11/29/2007 Iraq al-Salaam 12 25 A Jihad rocket attack leaves a dozen villagers dead.

11/29/2007 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 58-year-old orchard worker is shot to death by radical Muslims.

11/29/2007 Pakistan North Waziristan 5 4 Religious militants bomb a convoy, killing five local soldiers.

11/29/2007 India Baramulla 1 0 A 60-year-old civilian is shot to death by the Mujahideen.

11/28/2007 Iraq Haditha 5 30 Jihadis lob mortars into a residential area, killing five civilians.

11/28/2007 Pakistan Punjab 1 0 A father chops his daughter to death with an axe over her affair with a boy.

11/28/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two Buddhist fishermen are abducted and brutally murdered by Islamic terrorists, who then cut off their heads.

11/28/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamists shoot, stab, then nail a man to a wooden cross and leave on the road to die.

11/28/2007 Chechnya Grozny 1 0 A local cop is gunned down by the Mujahideen.
11/27/2007 Afghanistan Kabul 2 7 A suicide bomber kills two civilians walking along a road.

11/27/2007 Somalia Mogadishu 1 1 Islamic militias gun down a vendor at a market.

11/27/2007 Iraq Baqubah 9 15 A suicide bomber disguised as a shepherd manages to kill nine Iraqis, including three women.

11/26/2007 Somalia Mataban 6 0 Six civilians are killed when Islamic militias attack Ethiopian troops in a populated area.

11/26/2007 Afghanistan Paktia 4 2 Religious extremists kill four Afghans with a roadside bomb.

11/26/2007 Iraq Mosul 4 2 Jihadis murder four people. A woman is also gunned down in Basra.

11/26/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamic terrorists shoot a civilian off his motorcycle, then walk over and put a bullet in his head.

11/26/2007 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 54-year-old man is murdered by Muslim terrorists on his way to work.

11/26/2007 Afghanistan Kabul 4 0 Four civilians are killed by a bomb planted by religious extremists.

11/25/2007 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A disabled woman is shot to death as she leaves her plantation.

11/25/2007 Iraq Baghdad 11 36 Eleven civilians are killed in two separate car bombings.

11/25/2007 Iraq Baghdad 9 0 Nine Iraqi cops are taken hostage, force to kneel, and shot in the back of the head by their Muslim brothers.

11/25/2007 Iraq Shab 11 0 Seven children are among eleven family members slaughtered by sectarian rivals in their home.

11/25/2007 Iraq al-Zab 1 5 A suicide bomber kills one Iraqi and injures five more.

11/24/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 An older Buddhist couple are murdered by Islamic gunmen in a drive-by attack.

11/24/2007 Thailand Yala 1 0 A middle-aged man is shot to death by Islamists while sitting in a tea shop.

11/24/2007 Iraq Fallujah 2 0 Two people are kidnapped, tortured and murdered by Islamic radicals.

11/24/2007 Pakistan Rawalpindi 30 55 Suicide bombers kill thirty Pakistanis in two separate attacks, one on a bus.

11/24/2007 Afghanistan Kabul 7 9 Three children are among seven people murdered by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.

11/23/2007 Iraq Baghdad 15 55 Fifteen innocent people are slaughtered by Jihadi bombers at a pet market.

11/23/2007 Afghanistan Kandahar 7 6 Religious extremists behead seven Afghan police officers.

11/23/2007 India Uttar Pradesh 14 80 Harkat-ul-Jehadi Islamia terrorists bomb three separate Indian cities, killing at least fourteen Hindu.

11/23/2007 Iraq Mosul 21 21 Islamic terrorists massacre twenty-one Iraqis with twin bombings.

11/23/2007 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 45-year-old man is killed outside his home by Islamic militants.

11/23/2007 Pakistan Parachinar 50 0 Renewed violence between Shia and Sunni reportedly leaves about fifty dead.

11/23/2007 Iraq Jalawla 2 0 A husband and wife are beheaded in front of their children by religious extremists.

11/22/2007 Pakistan Lower Kurram 3 0 Three people are killed in sectarian attacks.

11/22/2007 Philippines Kidapawan 1 7 A gang linked to Islamic militants plants a bomb at a shopping mall, killing one person.

11/22/2007 Iraq Mosul 3 22 Jihadis kill two people with a car bomb and behead a university professor in a separate incident.

11/22/2007 Iraq Howr Rajab 22 8 al-Qaeda terrorists attack two Iraqi villages, killing over twenty innocent people.

11/22/2007 Somalia Mogadishu 3 5 Three civilians are killed in an ambush by Islamic militants.

11/22/2007 Russia Bratsk 5 13 A young girl is among five people are killed when Islamic radicals bomb a passenger bus.

11/22/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two brothers are shot to death by Muslim militants as they are riding a motorcycle.

11/22/2007 Pakistan FATA 2 0 Two civilians are shot to death in separate attacks by sectarian rivals.

11/21/2007 Iraq Ramadi 6 22 Sunni radicals bomb a courthouse, killing six people.

11/21/2007 Pakistan Swat 4 0 Four members of the same family are killed in a mortar attack by Muslim militants.

11/21/2007 Thailand Pattani 4 6 Islamists shoot four Buddhists to death at point-blank range, then plant a bomb that injures six others.

11/21/2007 Iraq Muwaili 40 0 An al-Qaeda mass grave is found containing forty bodies, including that of children.

11/21/2007 India Rajouri 1 0 A civilian is abducted and beheaded by the Mujahideen, who also torch his house.

Clearly, nobody read the story and people are just running their mouths like rainwater. The woman got a sentenceof aabout 15 days in prison (or thereabouts) and deportation. Nobody is going to be executed here. Obviously the thousands of people taking to the streets in protest are extremists and probably do not represent the general population (I'm sure Sudan's islamic population is in the millions). I'm sure if we bothered to count, we would find a a few thousand extremists on our shores too.

Muslim contributions:

well, they saved citi group, gave us: Oil, fela-fel, Dubai (awesome!), Shariah Law (comedy gold!), Al-Jazeera, Embassy Bombings, USS Cole, Internet beheadings, 9/11, Blackhawk Down (great book), taxi drivers, a friend for crazy Chavez, Moor Spain, chop-chop square, Saddam Hussein, Yom Kippur War, 7-day war (both make Israel look like badasses), suicide bombings, veils (sexy), belly dancers, Bin Laden videos, honor rapes (comedy gold!) and more pork for the rest of us.

coming soon: nuclear weapons!

Islamic atrocities committed during the past 10 days alone include the following:

11/30/2007 Somalia Borbhere 1 0 A man is shot to death in a mosque by three Islamic radicals.

11/29/2007 Somalia Mogadishu 15 23 Islamic militants open fire on a security team hunting for munitions in a residential area. Some fifteen civilians are killed.

11/29/2007 Iraq al-Salaam 12 25 A Jihad rocket attack leaves a dozen villagers dead.

11/29/2007 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 58-year-old orchard worker is shot to death by radical Muslims.

11/29/2007 Pakistan North Waziristan 5 4 Religious militants bomb a convoy, killing five local soldiers.

11/29/2007 India Baramulla 1 0 A 60-year-old civilian is shot to death by the Mujahideen.

11/28/2007 Iraq Haditha 5 30 Jihadis lob mortars into a residential area, killing five civilians.

11/28/2007 Pakistan Punjab 1 0 A father chops his daughter to death with an axe over her affair with a boy.

11/28/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two Buddhist fishermen are abducted and brutally murdered by Islamic terrorists, who then cut off their heads.

11/28/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamists shoot, stab, then nail a man to a wooden cross and leave on the road to die.

11/28/2007 Chechnya Grozny 1 0 A local cop is gunned down by the Mujahideen.

11/27/2007 Afghanistan Kabul 2 7 A suicide bomber kills two civilians walking along a road.

11/27/2007 Somalia Mogadishu 1 1 Islamic militias gun down a vendor at a market.

11/27/2007 Iraq Baqubah 9 15 A suicide bomber disguised as a shepherd manages to kill nine Iraqis, including three women.

11/26/2007 Somalia Mataban 6 0 Six civilians are killed when Islamic militias attack Ethiopian troops in a populated area.

11/26/2007 Afghanistan Paktia 4 2 Religious extremists kill four Afghans with a roadside bomb.

11/26/2007 Iraq Mosul 4 2 Jihadis murder four people. A woman is also gunned down in Basra.

11/26/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamic terrorists shoot a civilian off his motorcycle, then walk over and put a bullet in his head.

11/26/2007 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 54-year-old man is murdered by Muslim terrorists on his way to work.

11/26/2007 Afghanistan Kabul 4 0 Four civilians are killed by a bomb planted by religious extremists.

11/25/2007 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A disabled woman is shot to death as she leaves her plantation.

11/25/2007 Iraq Baghdad 11 36 Eleven civilians are killed in two separate car bombings.

11/25/2007 Iraq Baghdad 9 0 Nine Iraqi cops are taken hostage, force to kneel, and shot in the back of the head by their Muslim brothers.

11/25/2007 Iraq Shab 11 0 Seven children are among eleven family members slaughtered by sectarian rivals in their home.

11/25/2007 Iraq al-Zab 1 5 A suicide bomber kills one Iraqi and injures five more.

11/24/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 An older Buddhist couple are murdered by Islamic gunmen in a drive-by attack.

11/24/2007 Thailand Yala 1 0 A middle-aged man is shot to death by Islamists while sitting in a tea shop.

11/24/2007 Iraq Fallujah 2 0 Two people are kidnapped, tortured and murdered by Islamic radicals.

11/24/2007 Pakistan Rawalpindi 30 55 Suicide bombers kill thirty Pakistanis in two separate attacks, one on a bus.

11/24/2007 Afghanistan Kabul 7 9 Three children are among seven people murdered by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.

11/23/2007 Iraq Baghdad 15 55 Fifteen innocent people are slaughtered by Jihadi bombers at a pet market.

11/23/2007 Afghanistan Kandahar 7 6 Religious extremists behead seven Afghan police officers.

11/23/2007 India Uttar Pradesh 14 80 Harkat-ul-Jehadi Islamia terrorists bomb three separate Indian cities, killing at least fourteen Hindu.

11/23/2007 Iraq Mosul 21 21 Islamic terrorists massacre twenty-one Iraqis with twin bombings.

11/23/2007 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 45-year-old man is killed outside his home by Islamic militants.

11/23/2007 Pakistan Parachinar 50 0 Renewed violence between Shia and Sunni reportedly leaves about fifty dead.

11/23/2007 Iraq Jalawla 2 0 A husband and wife are beheaded in front of their children by religious extremists.

11/22/2007 Pakistan Lower Kurram 3 0 Three people are killed in sectarian attacks.

11/22/2007 Philippines Kidapawan 1 7 A gang linked to Islamic militants plants a bomb at a shopping mall, killing one person.

11/22/2007 Iraq Mosul 3 22 Jihadis kill two people with a car bomb and behead a university professor in a separate incident.

11/22/2007 Iraq Howr Rajab 22 8 al-Qaeda terrorists attack two Iraqi villages, killing over twenty innocent people.

11/22/2007 Somalia Mogadishu 3 5 Three civilians are killed in an ambush by Islamic militants.

11/22/2007 Russia Bratsk 5 13 A young girl is among five people are killed when Islamic radicals bomb a passenger bus.

11/22/2007 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two brothers are shot to death by Muslim militants as they are riding a motorcycle.

11/22/2007 Pakistan FATA 2 0 Two civilians are shot to death in separate attacks by sectarian rivals.

11/21/2007 Iraq Ramadi 6 22 Sunni radicals bomb a courthouse, killing six people.

11/21/2007 Pakistan Swat 4 0 Four members of the same family are killed in a mortar attack by Muslim militants.

11/21/2007 Thailand Pattani 4 6 Islamists shoot four Buddhists to death at point-blank range, then plant a bomb that injures six others.

11/21/2007 Iraq Muwaili 40 0 An al-Qaeda mass grave is found containing forty bodies, including that of children.

11/21/2007 India Rajouri 1 0 A civilian is abducted and beheaded by the Mujahideen, who also torch his house.

At 12:52 -- the fact that you cannot identify anything the middle east or Islam has contributed in the past 1500 years is probably a function of your own ignorance/lack of exposure than the contributions of Islam.

By the way, the two numbers on each of the items from my list above are the numbers of victims killed and injured, respectively.

15 days in prison? Oh. Well that's a different story. I thought we were talking about a punishment all out of proportion to the crime of naming a teddy bear. Thanks for the clarification.

At 1:02 : Source?

1:04 - Pony up buddy. If you are so enlightened, enlighten us ignorant folk.

1:04,
the fact that nobody (including yourself) was able to identify any significant muslim contribution shows that 12:52 is absolutely correct.

Some things they have contributed off my head right now are:

1. Algebra (al jibra)

2. The concept of the hospital and anti-bacterial medicine

3. Global navigation (Columbus sailed when he was a teenager with the Arab navigators)

4. Architecture - the Taj Mahal for instance was based off Arab Muslim architecture

Muslim woman to friend: "Does this bomb under my dress make my butt look big?"

Knowledge of our own cultural superiority?

Are there American christian extremists who, in the privacy of their own homes, might express a desire to kill an artist who dunks a crucifix in urine? Undoubtedly.

The point is that you never see those sentiments expressed in public (much less at government sponsored protests so common in the muslim world) because they would be met with universal revulsion and disgust.

To: People complaining about bonus threads
From: Lat

You're welcome.

1:01 you are an idiot. The IMAMS are the State-sponsored religous fanatics that lead the 40MM people or so in the country.

I am an American Muslim lawyer, and first and foremost I must express my utter condemndation of this act of the Sudanese government - it is absolutely backwards and a shame that this was done in the name of Islam.

I am also shocked that some here have used this as another excuse to bash Islam - the religion of over a billion people on the planet - most of whom are perfectly peaceful and reasonable.

It is especially disappointing that this comes from American lawyers, who well know that statues and constitutions and religious texts are highly subject to interpreation. Thus if you are a sexist, a racist, or an anti-Westerner, no matter what text you use, you probably can find a justification for your backwards beliefs.

And so it happens that Sudan has done just that in this case. Let us not forget those Sudanese Muslims who have also voiced their outrage at this. Unfortunately though, the violent ones are the ones that get the media attention.

Ooooh....Guess now would not be a good time to roll out the new McMohammed Happy Meals in all our Middle East locations

Hamid -

"Sudanese Muslims who have also voiced their outrage at this"

Link?

12:52 & 1:01- You totally missed the shawarma (I think it originated in Turkey). Probably the best Middle Eastern innovation.

LOL @ 1:12

I would have added:
"Try the camel"

"Some things they have contributed off my head right now are:

1. Algebra (al jibra)

2. The concept of the hospital and anti-bacterial medicine

3. Global navigation (Columbus sailed when he was a teenager with the Arab navigators)

4. Architecture - the Taj Mahal for instance was based off Arab Muslim architecture
posted by 1:11"

1:11 -
WTF ARE YOU SMOKING?

1. Algebra has been around for thousands of years back in the BC times used by ancient Chinese, Egyptian and Greek cultures.

2. I assume by "anti-bacterial medicine" you are referring to "antibiotics" which also were used by the ancient Chinese over 2,500 years ago. And if I'm not mistaken (which I'm not), I'm pretty sure penicillin was discovered and medicinalized for treatment uses in Europe, not the Middle East.

3. Global navigation...you're kidding right? Columbus sailing in 1492 was not novel to "global navigation" considering the use of ships for naval warfare had been around for centuries in European and Asian cultures civilizations.

You need to stop reading those Islam-written history books.

McMohammed Happy Meals include a pork burger and a veiled but nude Barbie named Mohammedana.

Hamid,

I couldn't agree with you more and I think (hope?) most people know that nearly all Muslims worldwide share your views.

On the other hand, I don't think it constitutes "Muslim bashing" to point out that of all the people on the planet at the present time who could reasonable be called religious extremists, Islamic religious extremists are in a class all their own in terms of both quantity and the depth of their depravity.

1:26: "Islam-written history books"?

Hamid, I don't know your specialty, but what are the religious requirements of the various Mohammedan countries? I hear Saudis are big on keeping out us ape and pig infidels, and Malaysia requires conversion if we marry a Moslem, is that correct?

At 1:14: the way people express their views is a matter of cultural conditioning and societal constraints. Some countries are more prone to riots than others -- i.e., compare riots in France to riots in the U.S.

Secondly, who's to say most Sudanese are not repulsed by the few thousands that have taken to the streets calling for the woman's execution?

"Islam-influenced/motivated" rather

The sad thing is that I don't think any rational person could honestly deny that they would feel a whole lot better about the world if everyone of Islamic faith were suddenly removed from it. This is the muslim legacy.

"It is especially disappointing that this comes from American lawyers, who well know that statues and constitutions and religious texts are highly subject to interpreation. Thus if you are a sexist, a racist, or an anti-Westerner, no matter what text you use, you probably can find a justification for your backwards beliefs."

Hamid,
what I find disappointing is that Muslim terrorists tried in the US invoke US laws for their defenses at trial, and we grant them that privilege even though they aren't Americans and want to destroy everything that is America.

Conversely, American soldiers, civilian workers, or any foreigners caught in the middle east will certainly not be granted the opportunity to invoke the privileges that Muslims would get under their country's laws. Beheading a US, Korean, German or any other foreigner on national TV is considered justified over there.

1:32

You're missing the point.

The argument I was addressing was that Christian extremists in the US are just as extreme as Islamic extremists in Sudan.

Christians in the US who protest perceived slights to Christianity do so within the bounds of what is considered acceptable by our society. Calling for the state sponsored execution of an artist is not acceptable and you don't see it here.

1:18 - *sigh* I love it when unexposed people act like they are so knowledgeable. The woman's sentence of 16 days in prison and deportation (I'm sure she thinks of deportation with relief at this point) was handed down by an Islamic Court. Islamic courts are heavily influenced by the Imams. For whatever reason, even the Islamic Court agreed that execution would be an inappropriate punishment and instead chose to jail the woman and then deport her. The thousands protesting are not doing so at the beckoning of any governmental body, at least according to the several accounts of the story I have read so far. There was a link to this story on Yahoo this morning and i saw this point made there.

You know when you read stories of what is happening in other parts of the world, it takes a few accounts to get it right. If you're interested in the story, try reading several accounts first before jumping to conclusion and displaying the ignorance and arrogance for which Americans are notorious. You have no context for this story and your comments clearly display this. i bet you this riot in Khartoum is not even making waves in most of Sudan. I'm not trying to defend Islam here, but just getting to read, question and understand before you run your mouth.

"WTF ARE YOU SMOKING?

1. Algebra has been around for thousands of years back in the BC times used by ancient Chinese, Egyptian and Greek cultures.

...................

You need to stop reading those Islam-written history books. "

Perhaps you need to pick up a history book - period. Every civilization builds on the ones that came before it. If you take the point of view that you take above, then you are basically saying that Western Civilization gave nothing to the world, because it was all built on what came before, created by the Egyptians, Chinese and Indians.

While the Greeks had early forms of alegebra, the Arabs took Aristotle and transformed it into the advanced algebra we have today, which Newton in turn took and invented calculus.

The Arabs are credited with the invention of the hospital - isolating sick people from society because they recognized that the sickness was caused by bacteria that was contagious.

Arab navigation - there are hundreds of books on this and you would be wise to pick one up. It was built on the knowledge of the Greeks, but much like mathematics built on the knowledge of the Indians, it was greatly advanced by the Arabs.

One more thing - the European renaissance - that's one big thing the Arabs gave to the world. Check it up.

I remember seeing a painting in a museum in Madrid of the Virgin Mary in a fine robe. It was a Catholic painting, but on her rob was written in Arabic - "There is no god but God, and Muhammed is his Prophet"

Weird huh? Shows you the greateness with which those in the European renaissance viwed the Arab world - the Arabic writing to the artist was a sign of luxury and riches, and robes with such an inscription were viewed as fit only for royalty.

1:45 - so do you think 15 days in jail for allowing kids to name a Teddy Bear is not outrageous and idiotic?

1:32

And something about the soft racism of low expectations. You seem to be saying that the Sudanese just can't help themselves, they don't know any better.

Unless I've missed something and you think that rioting over a teddy bear is a good thing.

The problem with this debate is that is actually concerns more than religion. Most of these Islamic countries are considered 3rd World nations; the average citizens are not highly educated; and most people are poor (in spite of the extreme wealth of those in power). All of these factors must be considered when analyzing this situation. I mean many Americans with extreme religious views are poor, uneducated Bible thumpers. We also have a lot of poor uneducated Quran thumpers in the mid-East.

@ Hamid

"most of whom are perfectly peaceful and reasonable."

Most, meaning greater than 50%, is not an impressive statistic.

"Thus if you are a sexist, a racist, or an anti-Westerner, no matter what text you use, you probably can find a justification for your backwards beliefs."

Probably true, however, some texts are, and have been, more readily interpreted as promoting violence in the name of religion tha nothers. There aren't too many instances of Buddhist violence that I am aware of.

"Let us not forget those Sudanese Muslims who have also voiced their outrage at this. Unfortunately though, the violent ones are the ones that get the media attention."

The Sudanese judicial system jailed this woman for naming a teddy bear Mohammed. I think that deserves the media's attention and condemnation.

1:46 - The guy you're arguing against clearly chose to go too far back, but if he had said "in the past 500 years" instead of 1500, could you still come up with anything?

"Hamid,
what I find disappointing is that Muslim terrorists tried in the US invoke US laws for their defenses at trial, and we grant them that privilege even though they aren't Americans and want to destroy everything that is America.

Conversely, American soldiers, civilian workers, or any foreigners caught in the middle east will certainly not be granted the opportunity to invoke the privileges that Muslims would get under their country's laws. Beheading a US, Korean, German or any other foreigner on national TV is considered justified over there. "
----------------------------------

How can you call yourself an American if you find it "disappointing" that we try terrorists according to our laws and give them the rights and protections our Constitution affords them?

Just because there still exists nations based on a medieval idea that your nationality is your religion (i.e. Saudia Arabia, Sudan), does not mean we as Americans must fall in line and do the same.

1:51 translated:

Poor people = too dumb to know that teachers shouldn't be imprisoned for naming teddy bears and women shouldn't be executed for being gang raped and film makers shouldn't be beheaded and...

At 1:43, you may be right to the extent that Christian extremists in the U.S. may not be as extreme as Muslim extremists in certain parts of the world. But that doesn't mean there aren't extremists of other kinds here who do not seek violent means to carry out their agenda -- this supremacist groups.

don't forget Sudan is very much a developing country, the laws and boundaries of the society are still being tested, formed and established. I am not saying it's right to call for the execution of this woman. What i am saying is that the actions of these few thousands should not be attributed to the Sudanese govt (of course it is the govt's job to quell protests -- but often times govt. interference in these types of protests will lead to more violence and what started out as a riot quickly becomes a civil war in volatile countires like Sudan). Now if you want to attribute the killings of thousands of Black Sudanese in Darfur and southern Sudan to Sudan's Arab govt. that's a different story.

These few thousand protestors are also not representative of Islam or Muslims. These protesters are just some crazy and frustrated people.

Hamid - I agree that muslim cultures are still stuck in the middle ages and that affording terrorists modern rights is something we ought to do, but I think you mean e.g. instead of i.e.

This is an article I wrote a little while back that bears directly on this issue. It attempts to answer the question of why some people call Islam a religion of peace, while at the same time it appears from incidents like these in Sudan that it is anything but.

THE WAR WITHIN ISLAM

This is a picture I took of the Blue Mosque in Istanbul, Turkey. An architectural wonder of its time, it stood in the midst of a Muslim civilization that represented the cutting edge of modernism and technological progress in the world. That civilization followed in the footsteps of other such great Muslim civilizations, such as Moorish Spain where Jewish, Christian, Muslim and secular scholars from around the known world gathered to engage in debates and exchange ideas. Indeed, it is this free exchange of ideas in Muslim Spain that is credited as the catalyst for the European renaissance back in the Christian north.

Islam stormed on to the scene in the 7th century with then controversial proclamations calling for governance of a society by the rule of the community (as opposed to a monarch) and the guarantee of the rights of women to inheritance, education, consent to marriage, and divorce (women’s rights that were not even contemplated in the West until well over 1,000 years later).

So why is Islam, a religion that once represented modernism, pluralism, and human rights, now seen by much of the world as representing the exact opposite?

The answer lies in the understanding that there is a war being fought within Islam for the very future of the faith. It is a war between the progressive Muslims (who, like the great Muslim civilizations of the past, view the Koran as encouraging pluralism, creativity, and progressive ideas) and the reactionary puritan Muslims (who believe among other things that Islam has been corrupted by materialism and what they view as immorality, and therefore must return to its 7th century roots to regain its once glorious past). The radically conservative, and frankly dangerously bigoted ideas of the puritans, unfortunately, is what many, if not most, non-Muslims today view as the Islamic faith.

The non-Muslim world should not, and must not, forget that the mass majority of Muslims belong to the progressive group and have themselves been fighting this war against the radicals for the last 200 years in ideas, and for the last 25 years in blood. The greatest infidel in eyes of the radical conservative puritans, after all, is not Westerners or Christians, but rather those Muslims who challenge their backwards and medieval ideas.

At the same time progressive Muslims in the West should not be defensive of the bigoted ideologies of the radical puritan movements. Those ideas do not represent us, but rather discredit us. We must instead play the role of educators, teaching others who do not know, the beautiful, tolerant, and progressive ideas we see in Islam, and how these ideas differ from what is usually portrayed in the Western media as representing the faith. These very ideas of tolerance and pluralism, embedded in the heart of Koran itself, once led the Muslim world to greatness.

1:56 you're a retard. That's not even close to what I said and as dumb as your assertion is, I know that you know better, so I won't even dignify it with a serious reply.

1:46: Ok, you win. The Middle Eastern/Muslim culture has contributed a few things in the past 1500 years.

Now, what has it contributed in the last 500 (suicide bombings and hijackings excluded, of course)?

At 1:47 -- I am not as outraged at 15 days in jail as I am at the possibility of a woman being executed for the same "offense."

We have to allow room for the fact that laws are different in other parts of the world. Somethings which are offenses here are not in other countries and vice versa. Notwithstanding, most of us agree that there is a limit to relativity. I.e., whether we like it or not, it is an offense in Sudan, apparently, to name a teddy after the prophet Mohammed. And the possible punishment for this crime was anywhere from 6 months in jail (i believe) to and including 60 or so lashes in public. So she was to be punished for her offense. The question then is, what is a fitting punishment? I think any punishment that would have exerted physical violence would be seen by many as extreme. I probably would have found 60 lashes extreme. But in the realm of possible punishments, 15 days in a protected jailhouse (she has been removed from the general prison to a more private location to protect her safety) sounds a whole lot better to me than several months in jail, 60 lashes in public, or the execution that a few fanatics are calling for. So even the Islamic court is trying to deliver what they understanding as a "moderate" punishment.

Doesn't this just take you us all back to that fun little distinction during 1L Crim Law--malum in se versus malum prohibitum? Even in the back of the minds of these poor, uneducated Sudanese, shouldn't SOME alarm bell be going off, saying, "Gee, naming teddy bear = beheading a teacher = stupid"?

I'm sorry, but to hang your hat upon the idea that these people are uneducated and don't know any better is just, well, uneducated.

I'd personally love to see the looks on their faces on the Day of Judgment when they stand before God/Allah and God/Allah says, "Are you f*cking kidding me with the beheading sh*t?"

2:09

So explain it to us. Is your whole point that many people who are religious extremists within their respective societies are poor and uneducated? And...?

If that's it, sound alot to me like "forgive them, they don't know any better."

2:18,

Your seed should be wiped from the earth. Why do you simply not have the balls to say that it is *wrong* to impose criminal punishment in this situation. It is wrong. Because the West would not impose punishment, it is *better*, in this regard at the very least.

And you say - "a few fanatics?" Have you seen the crowds gathered? Do you remember the cartoons? Their culture is fanatical in the mainstream - let's not pretend it's some lunatic fringe.

2:18

All I can say is...Wow. Stunning. I will give you credit for not actually saying that 15 days in jail is a fitting punishment (you say "better"). Beyond that, are you even a human being? There is no conceivable punishment for naming a teddy bear that could possibly be unbarbaric.

I hope, for the sake of your conscience, that this teacher makes it out of Sudan alive.

"And you say - "a few fanatics?" Have you seen the crowds gathered? Do you remember the cartoons? Their culture is fanatical in the mainstream - let's not pretend it's some lunatic fringe. "

To say such a thing really just shows ignorance of who Muslims are and what the culture is. I bet there are many people in your day to day life that are Muslims, but you have no idea.

I bet you don't realize that the Arab world makes up only about 20% of the Muslim world.

I bet you don't realize that some 60% of Muslims live in secular democracies.

There are approximately 1,200,000,000 Muslims in the world - because a few hundred thousand in some random country are marching down the street shouting for blood does not make them the mainstream. It makes them the loud minority.

Justice in Saudi Arabia

Islamic justice required "doubling of the rape victim’s punishment by a Qatif court on Nov. 14 for having been illegally alone with an unrelated male just before the rape happened, from 90 lashes to 200 lashes and six months in jail." Although I guess this is justified and moderate since it is not as harsh a punishment as "the ministry stopped short of accusing the rape victim of adultery, or “zina” in Arabic, which could carry the death penalty." This beautiful and peaceful religion also has wise rules of evidence, "Under Islamic law, two people can be accused of adultery only if they are caught in the actual act of penetration by four male witnesses of good character." Islam is not monolithic, there are diversity of view points on the treatment of rape victims.One "Saudi judge, Ibrahim bin Salih Al-Khudairi of the Riyadh Appeals Court, said in an interview published in Okaz newspaper on Nov. 27 that if he were a judge in the Qatif court that he would have sentenced her, her male companion and the seven rapists to death and that they should be lucky that they did not get the death penalty." Shame on all of you who attempt to place Islam and the Prophet in disrepute. This is proof that is is moderate and peaceful. The debate should therefore cease

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/world/01saudi.html?pagewanted=2&hp

Justice in Saudi Arabia

Islamic justice required "doubling of the rape victim’s punishment by a Qatif court on Nov. 14 for having been illegally alone with an unrelated male just before the rape happened, from 90 lashes to 200 lashes and six months in jail." Although I guess this is justified and moderate since it is not as harsh a punishment as "the ministry stopped short of accusing the rape victim of adultery, or “zina” in Arabic, which could carry the death penalty." This beautiful and peaceful religion also has wise rules of evidence, "Under Islamic law, two people can be accused of adultery only if they are caught in the actual act of penetration by four male witnesses of good character." Islam is not monolithic, there are diversity of view points on the treatment of rape victims.One "Saudi judge, Ibrahim bin Salih Al-Khudairi of the Riyadh Appeals Court, said in an interview published in Okaz newspaper on Nov. 27 that if he were a judge in the Qatif court that he would have sentenced her, her male companion and the seven rapists to death and that they should be lucky that they did not get the death penalty." Shame on all of you who attempt to place Islam and the Prophet in disrepute. This is proof that is is moderate and peaceful. The debate should therefore cease

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/world/01saudi.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&hp&oref=slogin

11:01-- if blacks weren't persecuted so much, maybe people wouldn't talk about it so much.

Hey remember when that guy got caned in Singapore for chewing gum or something stupid like that? Sure people were shocked, but the guy probably shouldn't have been chewing gum in a place where it was illegal. Different countries have different laws. If you're going to visit another country, don't break its laws and expect impunity. I'm sure many Europeans find it barbaric and idiotic that in America we sometimes jail parents for giving their 17 year olds alcohol. Or even more idiotic and backwards that we occasionally try to put 16 year olds in jail for ten years for getting a blowjob. It's all relative folks....

Hamid,

It is revealing that instead of standing with those who condemn extremists unequivocally, you defend their culture and yours, and that you do by insisting that it is not *as* hijacked by lunatics as some would have it. Some moderate *you* are.

2:43 - maybe it IS idiotic and barbaric to put someone in jail for getting a bj or providing alcohol to a minor. Maybe sometime in the next century we will come to that realization and condemn. The people in a society that does barbaric things may not see those things as barbaric and idiotic, but they might still be barbaric and idiotic. It is not relative, it is an issue of how enlightened a society is.

2:43 is right. It's all relative. What were those pesky Jews doing getting all upset about having to wear those pesky yellow stars or being stuffed in ovens. It was the law of Germany! Deal with it or we will commence with the impudence!

"Hey remember when that guy got caned in Singapore for chewing gum or something stupid like that? Sure people were shocked, but the guy probably shouldn't have been chewing gum in a place where it was illegal. Different countries have different laws. If you're going to visit another country, don't break its laws and expect impunity. I'm sure many Europeans find it barbaric and idiotic that in America we sometimes jail parents for giving their 17 year olds alcohol. Or even more idiotic and backwards that we occasionally try to put 16 year olds in jail for ten years for getting a blowjob. It's all relative folks...."

Exactly.

Ooh, a rare Godwin moment.

Relative to western society, islamic societies are idiotic and barbaric

Can we trade the teacher for, say, about 100 headhunters? I think we could all get behind punishing them.

2:56,

Not only are you right, but it is all the more sad that Islamic societies are also idiotic and barbaric relative to Islamic societies from 200 years ago.

I think black people that have emraced islam have shown us how wonderful the religion truly is.

I mean seriously, who throws a shoe? That really, really hurt!

i agree with 12:55, we should carpet bomb Khartoum with teddy bears with "Mohammed" on them. in fact, let's just do it all over the middle east -- bring on the clash of civilizations.

i'm someone who tries to be open-minded and has been opposed to the iraq war and the kind of ignorant groupthink that leads ppl to make blanket statements like i just did above. however, when i read this news story and hear about other things like this, such as that mohammed cartoon situation awhile back, it just pisses me off at these people -- we don't need to have crazy people like that in this world who would get so f-ing upset over something like that. it shows how truly backward and warped the minds of some of these people are -- and makes me believe more and more (reluctantly) that the repub's who always talk about the islamofascist threat may be onto something. these people are f-ing nuts.

Hey, 11:26 - you're forgetting a pretty important Christian, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Without Christianity, there would not have been a successful civil rights movement in the 1960s. Christians comprised most of the abolitionist movement during the Civil War too.

worrying about Teddy Bear named Mohammed is like worrying about Global Warming.... lunacy

I'm not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I'm not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I'm not getting' on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don't like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don't wanna hear any more about Islam. I don't wanna hear one more word about Islam. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I'm sick of you

I'm not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I'm not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I'm not getting' on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don't like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don't wanna hear any more about Islam. I don't wanna hear one more word about Islam. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I'm sick of you

I'm not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I'm not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I'm not getting' on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don't like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don't wanna hear any more about Islam. I don't wanna hear one more word about Islam. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I'm sick of you

Hamid,
Thanks for posting all of the information, and presenting a good opposing view point to the muslim-bashing. This site is not nearly as bad as another I read today, so the lawyers are at least better about it than the masses.

At 2:25 and 2:30 -- I'm sure wanting me wiped off the face of the earth because I think a 15 day jail sentence is more humane and exhibits an attempt at moderation is not extremism on your part. That's right, Westerners have the monopoly on judgment.

I actually do not agree with punishing a teacher for naming a teddy bear "Mohammed." But I am also not Muslim and can't profess to understand why the act is offensive. Plus, Sudan is a sovereign nation and has its own laws. If that's the law in their nation, then the woman should be punished. Granted it would be better if the Court ruled that this as a big misunderstanding and throws this case out. But i find the 15 day punishment (according to the woman, she is being treated well under the circumstances) relatively acceptable. If she were being flogged in public, being jailed for a 6months, i would find these punishments extreme.

I'm anti-Muslim only if the Muslims don't care about what the crazies are using their religion for. And most DON'T care.

* Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.

* A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.

* Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.

* Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose. Come on, is this really about cartoons? They're rampaging and burning flags. They're looking for Europeans to kidnap. They're threatening innkeepers and generally raising holy Muslim hell not because of any outrage over a cartoon. They're outraged because it is part of the Islamic jihadist culture to be outraged. You don't really need a reason. You just need an excuse.

Have you people seen the "demonstration" we're talking about? They have come prepared to protest for the death penalty and to carry it out themselves on the spot!

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20071130SudanProtesters1.jpg

At 2:52: I am not exactly sure what jailing this British woman has to do with genocide in general or the Holocaust in specific. There are other events in Sudan that arguably have to do with genocide, but i'm not sure this is one of them.

I have not heard an argument somewhere that only certain groups of people would be subject to the law under which the woman has been convicted. Do you know how many societies consider it barbaric to have the death penalty as we do? If i am not mistaken, we are the only society left in the first world to still have the death penalty. That puts us right in line with these Islamic societies we so righteously condemn. As a people, i've come to the conclusion that we Americans are full of ourselves.

Extremists are "outraged" becuase that is what the media covers...plain and simple. Every moderate in the world could say they disagree with extremeism, and it would not be news.

I am OUTRAGED by my tax rate and the amount the government does. It is literally the single biggest problem I have. But who cares?

The media gives idiots the microphone.

6:03 -- Very well. The USA is a sovereign nation too and if it thinks that waterboarding and secret military tribunals are appropriate, who are the UN, ACLU, Amnesty and other people to say otherwise? Why does an expectation of morality and human rights only apply to the United States, and to its detriment? There is a fundamental double-standard at work that in my mind undermines every criticism of US policy on the war in terrorism. Until the leftist "humanitarian" organizations and world bodies condemn acts of terror and violation of women's rights, they have no legitimate greivance against American policy which at least ATTEMPTS to strike a balance between security and individual rights. There is no such attempt in Muslim lands. The rape *victim* gets 200 lashes? When will the world wake up and realize that moral relativism is a one-way ticket to self-destruction of everything we hold sacred about our freedom and democratic legacy? Some acts are evil, period. Hitler was evil. People who decapitate Wall Street Journal reporters are evil. Evil has no legitimate "cause" and cannot be appeased by political concessions. They know only war and death, and they should receive it. Have people really learned nothing from history?

Try this, brave soul, who encourages everyone else to speak out against fundamentalist.

Post your name and address, and an anti-jihadist/radical islamic criticism -- like we all do anonymously.

At 6:07 -- Right and I am sure they have access to this woman and will therefore kill her on the spot. Wouldn't they have to reach this women who is in a jail cell somewhere in order to carry ou the death penalty "on the spot?" Or is the Sudanese Govt just going to hand her to the protesters? People are giving these protesters way too much credibility. They don't represent anyone but their psycho selves, they are not sanctioned by the government. In the grand scheme of things in Sudan, these protesters are probably irrelevant.

6:14 -- Calling terorists and fundamentalists "evil" only makes the situation worse.

We cannot change our balance becuase of the actions of others.

We are encouraging terrorism by being in Iraq.

Guantanamo and water-boarding are emboldening our enemies and helping recruiting.

USA should be held to a higher standard and not lower our standard becuase someone else does.

USA should support the UN, fully fund it, and give more money to every other country on the planet.

USA should reduce productivity until emissions are zero.

Lets see, what would bill clinton do? 1) withdraw from Sudan, which gives Muslims aroud the world a rallying call for defeating the US. 2) Ignore bin-Laden for years, 3) Unilaterally strike Iraq and Afghanistan (repeatedly), 4) Allow embassy bombings and USS COLE to go unretaliated against.

"ME": she is in JAIL for 15 days for NAMING A TEDDY BEAR MOHAMMED. And you are fine with this, becuase the angry mob that wants TO KILL HER is not state sanctioned.

Is your argument that the sentence is JUST (under any concept of justice) and that the SUDANESE GOVERNMENT are rational/just actors?

Concentration camps are fine... it is the gas chamber that is bad. Oh, and the camp guards are a few bad apples.

At 6:14 -- as I earlier posted:

We have to allow room for the fact that laws are different in other parts of the world. Somethings which are offensive here are not in other countries and vice versa. Notwithstanding, most of us agree that there is a limit to relativity. I.e., whether we like it or not, it is an offense in Sudan, apparently, to name a teddy after the prophet Mohammed. And the possible punishment for this crime was anywhere from 6 months in jail (i believe) to and including 60 or so lashes in public. So she was to be punished for her offense. The question then is, what is a fitting punishment? I think any punishment that would have exerted physical violence would be seen by many as extreme. I probably would have found 60 lashes extreme. But in the realm of possible punishments, 15 days in a protected jailhouse (she has been removed from the general prison to a more private location to protect her safety) sounds a whole lot better to me than several months in jail, 60 lashes in public, or the execution that a few fanatics are calling for. So even the Islamic court is trying to deliver what they understanding as a "moderate" punishment.

In other words, though I do profess relativity, I understand it has limits when we are talking about human rights. These issues are never black or white, never cut and dry. There are all kinds of nuances that color cultural norms. If it is Sudan's law that she violated, then she should be punished within limits. And I don't think the punishment in this case is objectively excessive. I may not agree that this woman should be punished at all. But that is my own view. If the punishment included any form of physical violence or a lenghthy jail sentence, I would characterize it as excessive. But I don't think the 15 day jail sentence and the deportation is excessive, given that she has violated Sudan's law.

Every country does whatever it wants to. The UN, Amnesty International, CAIR, Red Cross can file reports, monitor, complain, etc. But, in the end the whole world has gone crazy. What we need is a list and side by side comparison of who is truly awful:

China: polluter, religious persecution, political persecution, war-monger, nuclear threat, trade violator
Iran: Human rights, nuclear threat, sponsor terrorism
North Korea: genocide, political repression, nuclear threat
U.S.: Has the death penalty for murderers, Guantanamo, water-boarding and Disneyland.

Merely having a TRIAL for naming a Teddy Bear Mohammed is an OUTRAGE, ABUSE, VIOLATION OF HUMAN DIGNITY, VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS, VIOLATION OF UN CHARTER AND EVERYTHING IT STANDS FOR.

Who can possibly say this is not an Outrage? how can you defend a TRIAL, angry mob and death threats? how is that possible?!?!?

At 6:27 -- Actually I am not fine with it. But you are mixing up issues-

There is the issue of the protesters. Everyone on this board was initially reacting against the protesters and their call for execution. My response to that was to point out that the protesters are just that -- protesters. They are not government sanctioned and the government itself (through its court) has already issued a punishment which is far less than execution. In other words, point out that she is not going to be executed.

Then there's the issue of whether she should have been convicted to begin with. My response is, you and I may not like it, but guess what? Sudan is an Islamic state (sorry Southern Sudan) and they have islamic laws. This particular law is one of them. And apparently the woman violated it (of course embedded within this issue are regular legal issues -- i.e., on what evidence did they convict her?).

Then there's the issue of, assuming the conviction is valid, is the punishment in excess of the crime? My response is that this is again relative, but that there is a clear boundary that when crossed people will almost universally condemn. My argument is that the boundary has no been crossed in this particular instancce (you may be arguing that it has). Furthermore, the ISlamic court that convicted her was itself trying to be moderate with the punishment because it was authorized to jail her for up to 6 months and 60 lashes in public. So in that sense, I think the court was trying to act rationally.

I didn't say that the punishment is fair since the protesters are not government sanctioned. The protesters don't have much to do with the punishment that was in fact delivered.

I think the Sudanese court should be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize -- they commuted a clear cut case for the death penalty into a short prison stint.

Sudan is actually a very modern and peaceful country -- if gets a bad rap for one restless region (Darfur). I think Jesse Jackson should go and secure her release.

ME: Under your logic there would not be the Nuremburg trial, and international tribunals for war crimes and atrocities.

If Iran passes a law authorizing the nuclear destruction of Israel?? Or of throwing any Jew in prison? Or (this actually happens) executing a homosexual?

Bottom line: Is ISLAM evil? Their laws are evil, their countries are evil and their actions are evil. The good (moderate muslims) have let a couple HUNDRED MILLION people and a dozen countries ruin it for the rest of us. Saying these people twisted the Koran is like saying the Gestapo misconstrued "Mein Kampf." If this were World War II, you would be arguing that a few bad Nazi's were ruining a great idea, massive industrial production and terrific central government.

ME: Under your logic there would not be the Nuremburg trial, and international tribunals for war crimes and atrocities.

If Iran passes a law authorizing the nuclear destruction of Israel?? Or of throwing any Jew in prison? Or (this actually happens) executing a homosexual?

Bottom line: Is ISLAM evil? Their laws are evil, their countries are evil and their actions are evil. The good (moderate muslims) have let a couple HUNDRED MILLION people and a dozen countries ruin it for the rest of us. Saying these people twisted the Koran is like saying the Gestapo misconstrued "Mein Kampf." If this were World War II, you would be arguing that a few bad Nazi's were ruining a great idea, massive industrial production and terrific central government.

I know you're being sarcastic. But you do in fact make a point. This really could have been much worse and it still can be. Sudan is an extremely volatile country. It has a large black and Arab population, large christian adn Muslim population as well (the Arab Muslims are clearly running things). It doesn't take much to set this country ablaze. Once ablaze, it takaes lost lives, resources etc. to set things back aright. Look how long it's ttaking to handle Darfur-- and I don't see much progress happening.

The Sudanese govt has to do a delicate dance between keeping extremists from "over rioting" (i.e., rioting that turns into bloodshed which can be prolonged) and not ruining iits international relations.

If you want to worry about someone, worry about the Christians in Sudan who will soon be on the receiving end of the fury of extremist protesters should this issue continue. This woman will make it out of Sudan.

If I was in office, cruise missles would be raining down right now, I can promise you that.

At 6:54 -- Under my logic international war tribunals, the Nurumberg tiral etc. would exist under my logic and i am tired of explaining why. Some people can't appreciate that issues are not cut and dry but are textured. It's either you are for us or against us. There is no middle ground for them. Gotcha.

Is "Me" a schtick? A caricature of moral relativism?

That is the only explanation I can come up with for someone being this persistent in defense of the IMPRISONMENT of a woman for PERMITTING CHILDREN TO NAME A TEDDY BEAR, insisting that there is a middle ground or room for debate, and drawing on such red herrings as the use of the death penalty in the US (exclusively for murder or treason).

Recipe for world war III:

"Teddy Bear Named Mohammed meets Two Girls, One Cup" posted on the internet!

The Islamic frenzy would reach a fevered pitch: they would commence with cutting their own heads off.

I am a big fan of two girls, one cup.

At 7:17 i don't think i am a shtick --but i am not sure what that word means.

I am also no caricature. But I do believe to a certain extent in moral relativism.

you are, however, absolutely right that i insist there is a room for debate because there has to be. You can't change the mindset of anyone without first engaging them in a debate/discussion...unless you're advocating forcing your own worldview on others.

The death penalty is used only on murderers eh? Are you willing to bet that everyone who has been subject to the death penalty positively absolutely committed the alleged murder for which he/she was executed?

Whether or not anyone agrees that the 15 day sentence is harsh, light, whatever, I don't see how one could argue that without a certain level of moral relativism, the alternative is a global dictatorship.

Your idiocy speaks for itself.

06:45 definitely is a WCL student, probably did undergrad at AU. I can't think of anyone who would be that retardedly liberal in the face of overwhelming evidence that Islam is a religion of death and lies, not of peace.

I spent a year in Iraq before law school. This is the norm, not the exception.

06:45 definitely is a WCL student, probably did undergrad at AU. I can't think of anyone who would be that retardedly liberal in the face of overwhelming evidence that Islam is a religion of death and lies, not of peace.

I spent a year in Iraq before law school. This is the norm, not the exception.

But really though, why does the teddy bear have to be white?

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I'm anti-Muslim only if the Muslims don't care about what the crazies are using their religion for. And most DON'T care.

* Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.

* Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

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The rather simplistic logic displayed in posts like the above is dangerous, because it inherently argues that because the 1.2 Billion Muslims of the world didn't march in the streets in outrage at these horrid events, they therefore condone them.

It fails to take into account - just for example - that:

1. Innocent Muslim Americans died on 9/11 and in the London attacks;

2. Al Qaeda attacks in Iraq target mostly Muslims who support the Iraqi and American governments;

3. Some of America's strongest allies - such as the Lion of Panshir, Ahmed Massoud, who gave his life fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the Northern Alliance that eventually defeated the Taliban on the ground in Afghanistan - are Muslims;

4. That Muslims don't generally march in outrage, except when organized by governments with their own political motives - did u see Muslims marching in outrage against the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia - or the current genocide of Black Muslims in Sudan?

These marches that you see from time to time are nothing more governments, such as Sudan, stirring up outrage to deter attention from their own domestic failures. Ask yourself why you don't see similar marches of outrage about this teddy bear in the U.S., the UK, Iran, IRaq, Indonesia etc.

Honestly I am really tired of some people here and elsewhere grouping all Muslims as some kind of organized single entity - we are not. We are probably the most unorganized organized religion on the planet - and we have no coherent leaders or groups that speak on our behalf. That was once a strength - it is today obviously a great weakness.

To judge all of us based on the sensationalized actions of a tiny minority of us is rather foolish - and rather shameful for educated people like those who I assume write on this board. I hope that folks remember that 1.2 Billion people is a WHOLE lot of people.

I am officially anti-muslim. The ISLAM religion is anti-thetical to the American way -- democracy, justice and human rights. There are varying degrees, but 90% of muslims should be exterminated. EXTERMINATION TO MUSLIMS!!!

Here's CAIR's OpEd on the issue:

http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?mid1=777&&ArticleID=23869&&name=n&&currPage=1

November 30, 2007 10:44 AM I guess your odds were wrong.

The bear isn't white, r-tard. It's ALBINO! Show some sensitivity. Sheesh!

I know Muslim men are scared to death of women and make the chicks hide themselves behind burkas 'cause Muslim men aren't intelligent enough to be able to control themselves and will go apeshit and have to start beating off if they glimpse an ankle. My question is: If all Muslim martyrs get 70 virgins in heaven after they go blam-o and spray their worthless guts all over the streets, does that mean the women martyrs also get 70 virgins? Sucks to be a female Muslim martyr. 70 guys who don't know where to stick it. Ha, ha, ha...dumb Muslims.

Aw, dang it! Does anyone have a plunger I could use? My toilet is overflowing. That darn Koran I just tried to flush back to Allah is backing up everthing.

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