This is the first post.

first and goal!

I imagine that things suck for those working on Vioxx litigation.

I can't believe her brother Lee sold-out like that -- I thought he was a real public servant. It's a shame . . .

that is one depressing article...

$35 an hour? What time of gold assignment is that? Try $19/hr for Paul Weiss in their basement. Hardest part is not going to the bathroom for 12 hrs straight. Those that pee too much or take longer than a usual pee are simply asked not to come back. The other part is racing to the Jury Room Cafeteria so you can eat within 30 minutes start to finish.

Nice article, very well-written.

Why do they need lawyers to do this?

....oh wait, this is what most first and second year Havard Law School grads bill for.

Time to ship this work off to India.

And we are getting bent out of shape about special bonuses--we should thank our lucky stars

Has anyone ever seen Arin Greenwood and L2L at the same place at the same time?

Does anyone know if Bart is shitting himself now that vioxx settled?

Holy crap. Soooooo depressing.

Anyone have any experience with Axiom?

Boo fucking hoo. I'm a junior associate at a Vault top 20 law firm in NYC and I pretty much do the same shit. Yea, I get a window with a view of the adjacent high rise and get paid enough to be middle class in manhattan, but I still do the same mindless, often truly unneccessary and glorified paralegal work that these temps do.

Billing Fields Laborer --> Shut your mouth you idiot. At least you are getting paid a reasonable salary you douchebag. Do you want to fight me??? b/c I will

1:38 has it right. It could be worse, enjoy your $35/hr. now because within 5 years (probably less) that job will be outsourced to Bangalore for $1.99/hr.

I did it for a year and a half (on Vioxx litigation, actually). It was not interesting or challenging, but it paid the bills. We started at $25/hr and I was up to $32/hr when I quit for a job at a firm. I wouldn't say the money was bad, but you get treated like garbage and there's no job security. Still, it's better than leaving the law business altogether, since it pays ok and there's always the chance of landing a real-law job.

Billing Fields Laborer:
Unless you can wrangle some assignments doing substantive work, you will find yourself joining the ranks of the contractor underclass. Better be nice to them, you may have to spend months sitting next to them in a cramped windowless storage closet.

If you go to a non-top 10 school, there is a large chance you will either not make much money, or suffer the fate described in this article. Tread with caution. You had a 3.3 GPA as a political science major and a 160 on your LSAT. No one wants to pay you $300 to think for them or represent their interests.

Emory Law grads to temp attorneys!!!

Hey Lat,

Why is it that you find it fitting to use the picture of a black guy on a post about temp attorneys?

There are a lot of people in this world who would love to be making $35/hour for doing ANYTHING. I'm not saying being a temp attorney is fun, but life could be much, much worse.

1:38 and 2:12 -- You're right on. Already happening a little bit, in fact.

You guys are getting hosed. The firms bill that time at way more than $35 (or even $51)/ hour.

If you're litigation-oriented you can take court-appointed work for more than that. You can also do catering in DC for almost that. I think I'd rather pass asparagus spears that do another document review. I'd rather have the asparagus spears jammed in my eyes than do another document review.

Greenwod gets it right with the thrill of finding juicy e-mails. My personal favorite was a debate over whether or not to have the abortion. The email author was sleeping with a co-worker and man did that make for some compelling reading.

2:15? Substantive Work? Give me a break. What's substantive? Drafting some document that may or may not one day in some nuclear scenario become relevant? And please, the only way I would join those ranks is if I chose to. Which I may. The only good thing about this job is that I won't get fired unless I sexually harass my secretary.

So, Anonamiss, did she have the abortion?

That sucks. I make $40/hr at a mid-sized firm and I don't have my degree yet.

Lat, can we get a post about the temp agency business. Who are the major players? Do ex-lawyers run these? If so, do they tend to be from firms who are now their clients? Do the agencies operate across cities/markets like the law firms? Do certain firms contract exclusivley with certain temp agencies? Why don't law firms get into temp agency business to cut costs by maybe acquiring one (Bingham seems to be expanding outside of traditional legal services)?

I think the larger issue here is also the state of modern commercial litigation, especially with the new EDD rules. 75% of litigation money is spent on doc review, doc production (including electronic) and related experts. All cases have become paper floods requiring this type of work. Litigation is becoming a huge waste of money with no meaningful results, ever, and no need for intelligence. Litigators (outside bet the company stars) are all overpaid, overbilling, salesmen with JD's.

Thats another thing. The problem is not the industry or the temp-jobs. Its all you morons out there who think that somehow after barely getting into a second tier law school, youre going to magically graduate in the top of you class and work at Skadden. You're lucky to be making $35 an hour.

Billing Fields Laborer:

You are really delusional if you think that sexual harassment is the only way you will get fired.

The typical firing is much more subtle, you go for a while doing non-substantive things like document reviews. When you get too senior to bill for non-substantive work you will find that your assignments dry up. After your hours get light you will have a performance review and it will be made clear that you should look elsewhere.

Then as the firms you apply to see that the experience section of your resume is a bit light few attractive offers will be forthcoming. God help you if you are a fourth year (or older) litigation associate when this happens.

The fact that you are uncertain as to what constitutes substantive work indicates that it is probably already worse than you think.

The problem is not the industry or the temp-jobs. Its all you morons out there who think that somehow after barely getting into a second tier law school, youre going to magically graduate in the top of you class and work at Skadden.

Posted by: Billings Fields Laborer
__________________________________

Why? You said they do the same thing that you do.

2:38,

You are dead on.

Billing Fields Laborer, if you have been practicing a few years and are still only dealing with irrelevant documents, you won't have enough experience to succeed after you get laid off. I hope you aren't getting used to your biglaw paychecks. They won't be coming forever.

2:40. Yea, but I get paid more.

2:38 and 2:42 - Brilliant. I guess you've never heard of hyperbole. Obviously, I know what constitutes substantive work and obviously I've done it, my point is that its crap. With the exception of a handful of deals and what a handful of firms and partners in this city actually do, I could have done this crap after graduating highschool. I didnt need 7 years of higher education for it. That makes it NOT substantive. Get it?

I like Billing Fields Laborer. He's a nice reminder that someone who can graduate from law school, get a good job, and live the "good life"...

can still be a completely naive, clueless dumbass.

I can safely assure you now: if your firm is anything like mine, your attitude will bar you from remaining in the field of law for many more years.

Billing Fields Laborer:

It is not at all obvious that you have either done or could recognize substantive work. Better start sending out resumes before it is too late.

Hey Lat,

Why is it that you find it fitting to use the picture of a black guy on a post about temp attorneys?

Posted by: Dred Scott | November 9, 2007 02:17 PM

--------------> First, it's not even clear whether the guy in the photo is black.

Second, what would be a 'proper' choice of a photo - white, hispanic, asian, mixed race?

I guess what Lat's choice signifies is that he, like George Bush, doesn't care about black people. Why is it every time Lat posts a photo some fucking troll tries to hyper-analyze it?

Anonymous Partner:

While I agree with you for the most part, I would respectfully point out in the spirit of this thread that contract attorneys are still practicing law. Thus I suspect that BFL will remain in the field of law when she/he joins the ranks of the contractors.

Anonymous Partner? By "partner" you must mean the way gay people mean it. Either that or you're a "partner" at some 2 man shop in jersey, cuz, yea its really likely a partner at a big firm is trolling the comments on ATL.

And I hope you are all right and that I dont have to stay in this gig for too long. Every smart person I know is either a Marty Lipton in the making (which none of you obviously are since you are arguing with a "loser" like me in the middle of a business day) or getting out of the gig altogether.

LOL@"First, it's not even clear whether the guy in the photo is black."

I guess you're the same one in that "dog-walking perk" thread who thought that busted, wasted-looking mutt was "adorable." Please check into your firm's vision benefits . . .

Seriously, he might just have a nice tan.

My friend, plenty of Biglaw partners "troll" comments at ATL. Don't kid yourself.

Ok, Im a partner too then.

Sincerely,

Billing Fields Laborer

2:15 - I had a 3.3 GPA as a political science major and a 160 on your LSAT, went to a non T14 school and I now tell your elitist, moronic ass what to do.

Stop trolling ATL and finish that goddamned privilege log. Now.

the man is clearly an A-rab

He could be a Pakastani attorney doing outsourced document review.

I am smarter than all of you and I make more money than all of you therefore you all really suck. . . oh no, you are just biglaw associates.

I am waiting until about 4:39 this afternoon to unleash my latest "emergency" assignment on your unsuspecting asses. Bwahhhhhhhhhahhhhha.

Wow, shoulda done temp work. Divide my former AmLaw100 salary by the number of hours I put in, and I was making $31 per hour. Makes $35/hour sound pretty good . . . except that I'm making a lot more than that now, and working far fewer hours.

"I think the larger issue here is also the state of modern commercial litigation, especially with the new EDD rules. 75% of litigation money is spent on doc review, doc production (including electronic) and related experts. All cases have become paper floods requiring this type of work. Litigation is becoming a huge waste of money with no meaningful results, ever, and no need for intelligence. Litigators (outside bet the company stars) are all overpaid, overbilling, salesmen with JD's."

and yet...it's the clients who never want to settle.

1:59 --
I worked for Axiom until several months ago. It is an excellent compromise. They pay substantially more than the temp firms (NB -- they don't consider themselves a temp firm and cringe when that comparison is made), and the engagements, at least on the corporate side, tend to be a lot more interesting and responsible. They only hire experienced attorneys, so it is not something to consider for immediately after graduation. I was able to walk out the door every day by 6, usually earlier. The downsides are the lack of security -- clients can cancel engagements with no notice -- and the issues around having to learn a new client organization every few months.

Where he fucked up was going to law school in hopes of becoming a sports agent...

I don't see what the big deal is. I work in a real estate law office and half my day is spent poring through documents to determine their relevancy. Also, that's pretty good money if ALL they have to do is spot relevancy, or check to see if certain language appears in the right place in a contract, or the like. I don't earn much more, and I'm expected to consult with clients, draft legal documents and correspondence, and do a lot of other stuff before I get my paycheck.

I worked as a contract attorney for about a year while looking for a perm job. It was mind-numbingly boring. BUT, in retrospect, the hours were good, decent pay, and I liked my co-workers. I hope to God to never do it again, but there are days when I'm dealing with a difficult client or irrational partners that I miss being a contract attorney.

I think a lot of attorneys don't realize that contract attorneys have to share their hourly wages with a placement agency.

Let's have some more gossip about the Vioxx settlement, the imposion of HHR's litigation department, and the imminent layoffs. The Vioxx litigation entailed multiple notorious doc review sweatshops in basements in NY, NJ and Philly. Years of people's lives-- paralegals', contract attorneys', staff attorneys', associates' and "special counsel, litigation support"--have been wasted on the depressing facts of this case. Deposition prep is just about the only legal skill set associates gained. Good luck to anyone trying to lateral out with that little experience.

It is my understanding that once you touch Contract Attorney work you can pretty much forget becoming an associate anywhere.

2:10 - most contract attorneys I met are smart people who didn't want to be associates. That said, it's not impossible (although pretty rare) to transition out of temp purgatory. I contracted for a year, then moved onto a big firm as an associate.

The temp attorneys always provide some nice eye candy. There is one on my floor that I would like to do repeatedly.

I lasted about four months. We weren't allowed any access to the internet or e-mail even on break (we were told we could not bring our laptops to the office). I got more respect waiting tables in college.

2:10,

I know someone with a Georgetown JD that did contract work for a year, and then got a regular associate gig, albeit not at a firm anyone has heard of.

A

6:48,

On the west coast, eye candy from schools like Pepperdine and Loyola frequently get associate positions, presumably based on their looks.

Why does the guy in the photo (presumably there as a stand-in for temp atty's) have to be black? (N.B. I'm not black and this is post is only half-serious).

If anything, I thought the WCP article painted an unrealistically positive portrait of living in "temp town." Absolute lack of job security, back stabbing co workers, the random firings/dismissals without any explanation and of course, the tsk tsk superior attitudes of younger associates who look past you, not at you.

While it is true that a golden ticket, long term assignment means 1400-1500/week, you are also working 60-70 hours a week with little or no intellectual stimulation. I did make some decent friends on long term projects but even then, there is that latent hostility/resentment when you are chosen for some special project or to do "mop up" duty at the end of a project. If you are carrying big school debt and relying on temp work to pay the bills, you are not in a good place.

Fortunately, I am now in government service where the hours are regular and the work stimulating. My greatest professional fear is having to go back to temp. work.

I don't think the guy is black. I think he is South Asian.