BOOYA!

first

Blurst!

#1, bitches

Firstorama! The FirstMeister!

ouch

K&E to DECEMBER!

I wish I was special.

4:27: stupid monkey!

Dissent! Do I hear dissent from the herd? Why else would they do this if they didn't plan on giving out less?

"competitive" = not above market this time. Sorry kiddies!

Cheap.

"competitive" = not above market this time. Sorry kiddies!

Notice they refer to year-end bonuses in the email. They will probably match year-end bonuses of the other firms but not pay out special bonuses. Thoughts?

This is weak. Very weak.

All K&E associates have stopped billing and begun working on their resumes.

bad move, no?

firm in decline?

manolo?

K&E is just being smart. After the other players have laid out their three of a kinds, and straights, and full houses, they will lay down 4 Aces and crush them all.

Like they say on the local news (which I am no longer ever home to watch): Shame, shame, shame... shame on yoooooooooooooooooooou...

K&E are some cheap MF'ers. I really hope this screws them in recruiting.

like there's really a difference between an above market year end bonus vs. a market year end bonus plus a special bonus. . .

"Thank you for your continued hard work and dedication."

...especially during this period while we f%&k you over.

For those of you who don't understand, K & E is one of the NY firms that still has a very performance-based system (note the reference to "meritocratic"). Associates who bill a lot at K & E can make bonuses substantially larger than the market average. They don't do lock-step by class like the majority of NY firms. Thus a "special bonus" wouldn't make sense in the same way at K & E.

This should be good for K&E NY's recruiting.

Let's consider the respective positions -- K&E has a NY presence, but is a Chicago firm. There have been no other non-NY firms matching. These bonuses are going to be paid out of the huge first 1/2 of 2007, due to Private Equity and international corporate deals -- as far as I know, they aren't really in that market. Now, let's just see what Weil, Shearman, Skadden, Milbank, and Cleary do.

For those of you who don't understand, K & E is one of the NY firms that still has a very performance-based system (note the reference to "meritocratic"). Associates who bill a lot at K & E can make bonuses substantially larger than the market average. They don't do lock-step by class like the majority of NY firms. Thus a "special bonus" wouldn't make sense in the same way at K & E.

With these increases in bonuses, does this mean that salary increases are on the backburner?

What are the chances of a salary increase during 2008?

4:46 (1), being smart, how? They just basically said that they are not going to pay their associates market rate.

Let's consider the respective positions -- K&E has a NY presence, but is a Chicago firm. There have been no other non-NY firms matching. These bonuses are going to be paid out of the huge first 1/2 of 2007, due to Private Equity and international corporate deals -- as far as I know, they aren't really in that market. Now, let's just see what Weil, Shearman, Skadden, Milbank, and Cleary do.

This should be great for K&E NY recruiting.

For those of you who don't understand, K & E is one of the NY firms that still has a very performance-based system (note the reference to "meritocratic"). Associates who bill a lot at K & E can make bonuses substantially larger than the market average. They don't do lock-step by class like the majority of NY firms. Thus a "special bonus" wouldn't make sense in the same way at K & E.

@ 4:46

You know it amigito

I thought K&E's only redeeming characteristic was its crazy bonuses... now what?

Milbank just matched.

second city firm and always will be

Milbank has matched. Time to buy some gold teeth.

Let's consider the respective positions -- K&E has a NY presence, but is a Chicago firm. There have been no other non-NY firms matching. These bonuses are going to be paid out of the huge first 1/2 of 2007, due to Private Equity and international corporate deals -- as far as I know, they aren't really in that market. Now, let's just see what Weil, Shearman, Skadden, Milbank, and Cleary do.

This probably means nothing as K&E is in a class by its own with respect to bonuses. As described above, "meritocratic" means some will make more than market while others will make much less. Also, associates in their sixth year are either non-equity partners or have been asked to leave so the comparisons break down quickly (a la Wachtell, Susman Godfrey, et al.).

Milbank Matched!!

Let's consider the respective positions -- K&E has a NY presence, but is a Chicago firm. There have been no other non-NY firms matching. These bonuses are going to be paid out of the huge first 1/2 of 2007, due to Private Equity and international corporate deals -- as far as I know, they aren't really in that market. Now, let's just see what Weil, Shearman, Skadden, Milbank, and Cleary do.

ALERT: KIRKLAND GIVES BONUSES IN DECEMBER.

ALERT: SKY IS BLUE

ALERT: MAN HAS OPPOSABLE THUMBS

4:53/4:57; "as far as I know, they aren't really in [the PE/Int'l M&A] market"

Better cover-up, your ignorance is showing. K&E are big players in PE and do a lot of sub-headline int'l work, too. Sure, they don't rep Cerberus/Blackstone/Goldman, but the market's a lot bigger than that.

The bigger issues potentially affecting bonuses are (i) reserves for the costs of the new Chicago office (coming in 2009) and (ii) how much they can screw the non-share partners in favor of the associates. The NSPs (as a whole) did very well last year, maybe this won't be such a good year for them.

4:55,
"They just basically said that they are not going to pay their associates market rate. " I don't think that is what they said. To me, they basically said "wait until December." Given their record for paying large bonuses, and given how much work they have had this year, I expect they will exceed what has been announced so far. I could be wrong but that is how I see it playing out. If they had planned on coming in under, I don't think they would have released this memo at all today.

I am not at K & E.

Ditto on the 5:09 post. K&E has a longstanding relationship with KKR and is very well regarded in the LBO world, especially as sponsor's counsel.

Anyone have an opinion on the respective positions?

Sorry, technical difficulties once again.

But the Milbank match is confirmed. Here's the memo:

From: Wagner, Christine
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:03 PM
To: #BJ Associates; #DC Associates; #LA Associates; #HK Associates; #NY Associates; #SG Associates; #TK Associates
Subject: Sent On Behalf Of The Executive Committee

MEMORANDUM TO ASSOCIATES

In the Classes of 2007 – 1999

The Firm is very pleased to announce that we will again be paying year-end bonuses to all associates in the classes of 2007 – 1999. We will also be paying a special one time bonus to associates. Bonuses will be paid to associates in good standing and will be subject to the usual pro-rations for 2007 start dates, part-time schedules and unpaid leaves of absence. The special bonuses will be paid on November 30, 2007, and the year-end bonuses will be paid on or before January 15, 2008.

The bonus amounts for 2007 are as follows:

Year-End Special bonus

Class of 2007 $35,000
Class of 2006 $35,000 $10,000
Class of 2005 $40,000 $15,000
Class of 2004 $45,000 $20,000
Class of 2003 $50,000 $30,000
Class of 2002 $55,000 $40,000
Class of 2001 $60,000 $50,000
Class of 2000 $65,000 $50,000
Class of 1999 $65,000 $50,000

On behalf of the Firm, we sincerely thank you for your many efforts. Your commitment and dedication, excellent client service, and contributions to mentoring, recruiting and pro bono contributed significantly to a great year for the Firm.

THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
November 1, 2007

Can someone please post the Milbank memo already?

4:55,
"They just basically said that they are not going to pay their associates market rate. " I don't think that is what they said. To me, they basically said "wait until December." Given their record for paying large bonuses, and given how much work they have had this year, I expect they will exceed what has been announced so far. I could be wrong but that is how I see it playing out. If they had planned on coming in under, I don't think they would have released this memo at all today.

I am not at K & E.

Milbank has matched Simpson/Debevoise/PW.

5:14, the Milbank memo is one minute behind you, posted by Lat himself.

what does "in good standing" mean? Associates above the hours requirement?

COME ON, WILLKIE! LET'S GO! LET'S GO!

if you want the escalation of bonuses and base salary to continue you should be hoping that Kirkland's bonus are on the high side - and even beat the new Cravath mark. you want the arms race to continue. if cravath (and the firms that match them) becomes the top then you have reached the high water mark for a while.

indeed, speculation is that Cravath made this move early in a preemptive manner to head off the 190K base talk that became so pervasive that worries were that some firm would move to it and it is better to just take a one time "special bonus" hit based on an outstanding year, rather than up the base to 190K that, once upped, would NEVER come down.

Understand_before_speaking=K&E Kool-Aid drinker.

COME ON, WILLKIE! LET'S GO! LET'S GO!

What is a #BJ Associate? Do we need a new perk watch?

if you want the escalation of bonuses and base salary to continue you should be hoping that Kirkland's bonus are on the high side - and even beat the new Cravath mark. you want the arms race to continue. if cravath (and the firms that match them) becomes the top then you have reached the high water mark for a while.

indeed, speculation is that Cravath made this move early in a preemptive manner to head off the 190K base talk that became so pervasive that worries were that some firm would move to it and it is better to just take a one time "special bonus" hit based on an outstanding year, rather than up the base to 190K that, once upped, would NEVER come down.

what does "in good standing" mean? Associates above the hours requirement?

Does Milbank have an hours requirement for bonus?

COME ON, WILLKIE! LET'S GO! LET'S GO!

Does Milbank have an hours requirement for bonus?

You guys have got to be kidding thinking that K&E won't keep up with or continue to exceed bonuses at the top NY firms. Every year Kirkland calls their bonuses "competitive," when in fact they crush the market. Don't read too much into the modest language of the announcement. K&E has had a great year.

I think anyone who tries to egg their own firm on in a public forum deserves to be excluded from the clump of associates in "good standing."

Especially if they're using their firm computer!

Milbank has no stated hours requirement for bonuses. I've heard that extreme underachievers (>1400 hours) may only receive a pro-rated bonus, but this may be a myth.

Freskin also not only matched, but exceeded Cravath. Here's the memo:

From: Wagner, Christine
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:03 PM
To: #BJ Associates; #DC Associates; #LA Associates; #HK Associates; #NY Associates; #SG Associates; #TK Associates
Subject: Sent On Behalf Of The Executive Committee

MEMORANDUM TO ASSOCIATES

In the Classes of 2007 – 1999

The Firm is very pleased to announce that we will again be paying year-end bonuses to all associates in the classes of 2007 – 1999. We will also be paying a special one time bonus to associates. Bonuses will be paid to associates in good standing and will be subject to the usual pro-rations for 2007 start dates, part-time schedules and unpaid leaves of absence. The special bonuses will be paid on November 30, 2007, and the year-end bonuses will be paid on or before January 15, 2008.

The bonus amounts for 2007 are as follows:

Year-End Special bonus

Class of 2007 $65,000
Class of 2006 $65,000 $10,000
Class of 2005 $70,000 $15,000
Class of 2004 $75,000 $20,000
Class of 2003 $70,000 $30,000
Class of 2002 $85,000 $40,000
Class of 2001 $80,000 $50,000
Class of 2000 $95,000 $50,000
Class of 1999 $95,000 $50,000

On behalf of the Firm, we sincerely thank you for your many efforts. Your commitment and dedication, excellent client service, and contributions to mentoring, recruiting and pro bono contributed significantly to a great year for the Firm.

THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
November 1, 2007

Milbank does not have an hours requirement.

5:21--you may well be right, but that doesn't make U_B_S wrong. K&E's system may not be preferable, but they've pretty much committed to having one bonus system for all offices and aren't going to pay $10k to $50k as a minimum bonus to those just avoiding "behind the class" ratings in Chicago/SF/LA/DC. I would pretty much bank on the floor in NYC being a near match of the going rate (possibly a couple associates will come in a few thousand under)--K&E's been matching in NYC since at least 2000.

Nice try, 5:33. See supra 5:14.

K&E may pay some percentage of their class a higher bonus than Cravath et al., but it is completely unclear how high that percentage is. My guess: that percentage is pretty low, and the majority of K&E associates receive below market bonuses, if any at all. There's a reason why no one every knows the scale of their bonuses and how many associates receive them. Don't you think if most their associates received a bonus well above the market, they'd publicize the hell out of that fact????

Whats the story on bonuses in the Chicago office of Jones Day? I know it's individualized, but does anyone get "market bonus?"

K&E may pay some percentage of their class a higher bonus than Cravath et al., but it is completely unclear how high that percentage is. My guess: that percentage is pretty low, and the majority of K&E associates receive below market bonuses, if any at all. There's a reason why no one every knows the scale of their bonuses and how many associates receive them. Don't you think if most their associates received a bonus well above the market, they'd publicize the hell out of that fact????

Tonight is the monthly "mixer" at CWT. Me thinks that the conspicuously absent matching email will make it more interesting (sloppy) than usual.

5:41 - Have you never spoken to a K&E associate? You are an idiot.

From: Cumberland 3L
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:23 PM
To: All Arrogant Greedy Associates
Subject: You Make too much already

MEMORANDUM TO ASSOCIATES

In the Classes of 2007 – 1999

I think all of you make too much already. I mean come on, 160k and now a bonus. How can someone be worth that much money. I would be happy to make 50k next year.

The bonus amounts for 2007 SHOULD BE as follows:

Year-End Special bonus

Class of 2007 You have a job

Class of 2006 You are a dumba$$ for working that many hours.

Class of 2005 You still there? I would quit after working two years.

Class of 2004 - 1999 That is immoral!

On behalf of Cumberland 3L, thanks for working so many hours to try to make me look bad.

CUMBERLAND 3L
November 1, 2007

546 - you are wrong for making fun of C3L!

based on the language of the memo:

". . . we intend to CONTINUE our practice of paying year-end bonuses in December. AS IN THE PAST past, we expect that those bonuses will be competitive in each of the markets in which we are located, and that THEY WILL CONTINUE to reflect our HISTORICAL, meritocratic approach."

it seems like they are signaling a non-change.

K&E has had a good year this year. I would be surprised if the associates and NSPs did not as well - as usual.

ok 5:41, last year I billed 2050 as a second year and received a $57K bonus.

Surely there is a market for L2L and C3L. I mean they have to be worth something. If you were the hiring partner at a biglaw firm, what would you offer them? Min. bill requirements = 2200 hrs. Starting salary of $45,000. Bonus of $2k/100 hrs over min. What do others think?

ya'll have sold your souls for money

NY is moving to 170k, roughly 8% increase for all other classes rounded up to nearest clean number ($217,124 -> $220k)

5:52 - I would offer the following
to L2L:
Min. bill requirements = 2500 hrs. Starting salary of $55,000. Bonus of $1k/100 hrs over min.

C3L:
Min. bill requirements = 2600 hrs. Starting salary of $55,000. Bonus of $1k/200 hrs over min.

Finally some interesting breaking news: Imus is back in NY.

I'm not at K & E. I work with the bedbugs.

Haha. I love when someone says "how can anyone be worth that much money." Don't worry about associates making $160K. Worry about Stan O'Neil receiving a $160M severance package. His severance package is larger than the gross annual earnings of many, if not most law firms.

6:00 - you are an arrogant prick

I have it on pretty solid authority that there are a couple of firms for which matching this is proving quite hard and causing a deal of angst among partners, and that the "special bonus" aspect is going to be massaged in the public memo so that it reads to apply to one and all, but in fact will be applied on a VERY discretionary basis.

6:03 - I have it on pretty solid authority that you're being way too vague and aren't helping anything at all. Name names or get out.

the people on these comment board that i really don't get are the ones that seem to think biglaw associates have made some sort of pact with the devil. this job is not so bad. you have to be a pretty sheltered, naive, myopic twit to think this is a bad gig. i've had way worse jobs (almost as bad hours-wise, douchebag coworkers from Jersey, smelly offices, limited upward mobility) for les than $80K in the city. i don't get what everyone bitches about.

Why be the first to announce that you are not going to match? That would be horrible press. Use your heads people...they're just setting the stage for a jump down the road...otherwise this memo would serve no positive purpose.

6:06, I think part of the issue is that so many people go straight through from college to law school, so they don't know that, generally, full time office gigs suck no matter what. They don't have any personal experience that would put the long hours/dull work into perspective. Of course, all that being said, I worked for several years at a crap job before law school for peanuts and I still bitch whenever I get a chance...

6:11--don't get me wrong, carte blanch to bitch about work is the right of every american.

Wow, lots of spin on this memo. Does that Kirkland Kool-Aid taste good? Drink up, boys and girls.

6:09 - K&E's message is "don't worry, you all know that we are above market already and this year will not be different."
K&E wont give you any special bonus because you are pretty or you just survived the last year w/o killing yourself. They will make you earn whatever it is that pay you, and I am sure that K&E's bonuses (for all of those who are "class" or "above class") will be higher than whatever they have posted here.

6:11--don't get me wrong, carte blanch to bitch about work is the right of every american.

So when does K&E usually pay or lets associates know how much they are getting.

So when does K&E usually pay or lets associates know how much they are getting.

6:02 -- How is that arrogant? It merely shows that the idea of "worth" is determined by the market. Who are you to decide which professional positions are overvalued?

borat, K&E usually announces on the Friday after Thanksgiving - usually around 8:42pm.

Disregard the post above where it plainly says "Please be aware that we intend to continue our practice of paying year-end bonuses in December. "

And as a general rule, don't bother reading the posts; the meat is in the comments.

6:24: The week before Christmas. Bonus is in the last paycheck.

5:45 -- then give us a sense of what percentage of the class receives an above market bonus.

Given the secretive nature of Chicago bonuses, is there going to be any way to ascertain what, if anything, other big Chicago firms with a New York presence will do if Kirkland in fact does adjust its bonuses upward at home as well?

thanks 6:24

as for 6:31 you can kiss my Kazah behind :-) and maybe, just maybe, some ppl would like to know a more specific time frame than December, unlike you 6:31, some of us parcel time into less than monthly periods

I don't want to speak for the more senior associate classes because I don't remember the statistics too well, but I can tell you that last year, every 1st year associate that worked at the firm for the full year received an above market bonus (I think the mean was somewhere around $42K). Basically they pegged NY market bonus to a low hour cutoff (I think it was 1850 hours) and anyone who billed above that (i.e. everyone) got above $35K. The range of 1st year bonuses was something like $25K-$68K. The below $35K bonuses were for people that had lateralled into the firm in the middle of the year.

Does tying bonuses to the amount of hours billed create a competitive environment at firms like KE or is there generally enough work to satisfy everyone's work appetite?

My guess: that percentage is pretty low, and the majority of K&E associates receive below market bonuses, if any at all. There's a reason why no one every knows the scale of their bonuses and how many associates receive them. Don't you think if most their associates received a bonus well above the market, they'd publicize the hell out of that fact????
------------------------------
Wrong, just wrong. Do some research. The info is out there. Over 90% of associates at Krikland beat NY market last year, and those that didn't were less than 10% below market.

6:53: At K&E, the hours portion of the bonus provides upside to people who want to bill a lot of hours. If you aren't making the minimum hours, at least in corporate, it is because you have chosen not to come into work for six months. There is more work than there are bodies.

Vault Based List of Shame -

(Wachtell ommitted because, come on, seriously, they got more than this in their mid-year bonus)

Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP / $1,627,000
4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom / $997,000
5
6
7 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton LLP / $913,000
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP / $954,000
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000
12
13
14 Shearman & Sterling LLP / $992,000
15 Wilmer Cutler / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20 White & Case LLP / $600,000
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25 Clifford Chance LLP /
26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29 Fried, Frank, / $891,000
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP / $859,000
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35 Dewey Ballantine LLP / $782,000
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000

* Note the RPLs I could find are a little dated, so that's changed in the last 2 years for some firms, and for CWT, pretty dramatically.

* Note that some/most of these firms might have bonuses tied to hours - an thus they might never match this bonus.

What's the story on bonuses at the big Jones Day offices?

if you want the escalation of bonuses and base salary to continue you should be hoping that Kirkland's bonus are on the high side - and even beat the new Cravath mark. you want the arms race to continue. if cravath (and the firms that match them) becomes the top then you have reached the high water mark for a while.

indeed, speculation is that Cravath made this move early in a preemptive manner to head off the 190K base talk that became so pervasive that worries were that some firm would move to it and it is better to just take a one time "special bonus" hit based on an outstanding year, rather than up the base to 190K that, once upped, would NEVER come down.

Some of this commenting feels about as intelligent as tabloid parsing of the fashion and social decisions of Britney Spears. What is the real significance of these big firm differences when, by any measure, these salaries plus bonuses are great compensation? Is there a bit of perspective lacking here? Indeed, what motivates the fine parsing of a memo that says "we're waiting until later this year" to announce bonuses? Nothing better to do than gossip and carp?

Grow up.

Kirkland will blow the doors off of the NY/National bonus market (again). No Kool-Aid necessary (I'll just check my account balance on December 24, and that's all I'll need, thanks). This recent memo is just to tell the associates (particularly the junior folks) to be patient. Nothing more. Honestly, if K&E were to opt for the current market raise, most of us (including all of the top performers) would be pissed...as we're clearly expecting at least 50% more than this current market raise. Flame all you want, but end of day, if you're at BIGLAW, and are sharp, care about your comp, and willing to work hard, but didn't choose Kirkland, you made a bad decision. Deal with it.

10:16 - you nailed it. nuff said.

The idea that K&E is in decline is preposterous. The notion that it is not going to be competitive is absurd. But -- 10:16 -- you're foolish if you assume they will beat the current market raise by 50%. Maybe they will. But K&E is successful because they're smart. Not just the associates -- the partners, too. They're not going to give away a chunk of their equity that they don't have to to keep the smart and hard working associates there. And you're too smart to storm out of K&E if they don't beat the market raise by 50%.

Amen, brother 10:16.

I think the Kool Aid is actually being drunk not by Kirkland associates, but by the rest of the apparent talent pool. In fact, much of these anti-Kirkland responses seem not too different from the days of Eastern Europe and the Iron Curtain, where capitalism and meritocracy were shunned, and everyone instead was "convinced" they were happy with a daily dollop of slop and slice of bread - no matter how average or how hard they worked. Well, I think we all know how well that turned out - - so, good luck with that.

Enough of the historical reference --bottom line will be (as it has been) that Kirkland beats the market on associate comp.

10:29, If you don't believe me, I'll grant you informal discovery on my payroll records on Jan 1. My bonus will be at least 50% (and perhaps even 100%) above this current standard+special market rate. My bonus has been at least 50% higher than market in prior years, and I have no reason to believe it will not remain so this year.

why does everyone from K&E claim that they are at the top of their class and getting the sweet $$$. give me a break. especially the ones at a LES bar last friday, in their LL Bean gear trying to pick up some talent. hilarious. you were annoying in law school and even more so now. have fun with your secret awesome bonus.

gimme a break. kirkland blows. it pays hours based bonuses. it's no one top choice. who cares. I work less than 1800 hours, roll in at 10:30, in my top 5 ny firm, and get paid the same bonus regardless of my hours. Then i'm gonna work for a client and make twice as much.

12:40 - Riiiiiiiiiiiight. You work in a top 5 NY firm, and you work 1800 hours, and you are going to double your comp when you go in house? Sure, buddy.

If anyone is interested, I work in a top 3 firm, only bill 20 minutes a day, ride the space shuttle to work, and when I retire next year (I just started a few months ago), they are going to give me a life-sized, solid gold statue of myself!!

NYC to 24k (gold statues).

LOL at all the Kirkland trolls. Its impossible to trust anything Kirkland’s associates say, because its more of a cult than a law firm. They will defend it at all costs. Just last week Kirkland associates on this board were applauding and defending firm layoffs.

There is a reason why its so hard to get all the details about past Kirkland bonus. The associates there do everything in their power to promote the firm so we never hear anything negative. There is no way the average Kirkland associate made above market last year.

12:52

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss 12:40's claim. I am a mid-level in a top 5 NY firm, and in my experience most people roll in at 10am or so. So coming in at 10.30am, while being a little on the later side, is certainly not outrageous.

As for hours, I think people need to quash this myth that ALL associates at top NY firms bill 2500-3000 hours a year. That is simply not true. I have been here for 3 years, had great reviews each year, and I would say I average 1900-2100. I know many friends at top 5 NY firms who bill about these numbers. And we are all in mainstream corporate (M&A, securities, finance, fund formation). Yes, there are people at my firm (and my friends' firms) who bill 2400-2800 hours, but they are certainly the minority.

I can't help but feel that this myth about the absurd hours at top firms is perpetuated by people who want to continue to console themselves that associates at top firms are getting screwed while earning the same amount of money (therefore it is really stupid to work for a top firm).

2:09

Lat hissef said he did 2800 at Wachtell and many did much more.

So, with all due respect, go fuck yourself third tier loser.

209 - the last few years have seen demand for juniors, even adequate ones, skyrocket. thus, we give great reviews to middle of the pack turds like yourself to string you along. G-d willing, a slowdown will be coming so we can cull the shit like you from the sacred herd.

7:55,

Lat "hisself" also said he was a "gunner" so it would be expected that he would try to bill towards the top end of the group.

7:55,

Lat "hisself" also said he was a "gunner" so it would be expected that he would bill towards the top end of the group.

In Chicago there better not be some cruddy $20-$30K for meeting the 2000 for the big boys - Sidley, Latham, Mayer, etc.

In Chicago there better not be some cruddy $20-$30K for meeting the 2000 hours mark for the big Chitown firms - Sidley, Latham, Mayer, etc.

Of course Kirkland is going to try opting out of the NYC bonus structure in all their other offices. They're LAYING PEOPLE OFF.

I have no doubt Kirkland will match, if not exceed. The other Chicago notables like Sidley, Mayer and Winston will match.

If you have no doubt that K&E will match, you must not work there. They'll match in NYC, but they won't pay the special bonus in any other office. Despite what all the kool-aid sippers around here think, K&E is still firing people because business is so slow.

7:55 and 9:35

I love how when some people actually give a meaningful description of what life is really like at a top 5 NY firm, they are dismissed as a third tier loser, lied to by their firms and just waiting to be fired.

I am a 2nd year at a V6 firm (not Wachtell), and I would say 2:09 is about right. Many of my friends end up billing around 1900-2100, and we are perfectly fine. Yes, yes, we are all losers, so our firm is going to fire 50% of their class of corporate junior associates.

To be clear, my statement above does not cover Wachtell because I have heard from my friends there that their hours are dreadful.

This has been posted before, but here're the grids:

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0034dm

"Historically, Kirkland's average bonus per class year has exceeded the lockstep bonus per class year at CSM/STB/S&C."

Last year, 1700 as a first year got you $25k, 2000 as a first year got you $37k.

"If you have no doubt that K&E will match, you must not work there. They'll match in NYC, but they won't pay the special bonus in any other office."

The most informed statement in this whole comment thread. Superstars in other offices will get NYC-sized bonuses, the average folks will not.

I enjoy the K&E trolls' confidence that K&E will pay some associates Wachtell-sized bonuses (i.e. 100%+) AND that they are the ones who will receive them. Ain't happening in a year when some Share Partners will make less than many NSPs did last year--and that was before this "special bonus" stuff. I'd keep my head down around junior NSPs--there are going to be a lot of them pissed off.

"Ain't happening in a year when some Share Partners will make less than many NSPs did last year--and that was before this "special bonus" stuff."
Uh, no. Kirkland share partners are on a 1-4 spread.

K&E to $125!!!

"Ain't happening in a year when some Share Partners will make less than many NSPs did last year--and that was before this "special bonus" stuff."
Uh, no. Kirkland share partners are on a 1-4 spread.

You are all a bunch of babies.

3:15/3:336: "Kirkland share partners are on a 1-4 spread"

Hm, so you're saying that the lowest comp share partner makes 4x what the highest paid NSP does? Or something else (if so, what)? Weren't there NSPs who made (with bonus) over $700k in 2006? I'm pretty sure there were. 4 times that is higher than PPP. 4:1 might be close to the spread from lowest-to-lowest, but that isn't relevant to my point.

Look, the Share spread is, what, 7 to 1 (i.e. the top Share partner has 7 times the shares of the bottom share partner) or so. There are more closer to the bottom than closer to the top, but let's say that PPP has been about 2.5 to 3.0 times the bottom share partner--making bottom share partner comp maybe as much as about $1.0mm or as little as about $800k last year.

There are a lot of expenses related to the upcoming Chicago office move that WILL decrease actual comp (while probably not denting reported PPP) from what it would have been. And then throw in the extragent expectations of the associates and the reality that, if you're paying the assocaites that much, it's kinda hard to completely screw the NSPs (say, by paying the lowest comped ones $50k+ less than senior associates), and that adds up to a hit to share partner draws. So, you have a situation where the average, in good standing, K&E associate not in NYC will not see anything close to the market NYC total bonus.

There will be a lot of stars outside NYC who do get as much as if they were in NYC, but I wouldn't be very hopeful if I were a litigator in DC/Chi/LA/SF. There's just not a lot of support in the P-Ship for ordinary 5th years making $400k in Chicago.

No, what I'm saying is the share spread is 4 to 1. I don't know where you got 7 to 1, but it's wrong.

7:03, sorry about your below-the-class ranking, hope things are working out well at katten.

12:38, I'm not even sure what you think I was saying, or why it made you so enraged. You seem to have some trouble with reading comprehension. I'm still at Kirkland, thanks. My post is true. Yannucci has no more than 4 times the number of shares of the newest share partner. I don't even get why that would piss you off so much. The point is, the above poster's contention that some share partners would not be making much more this year than non-share partners did last year is just wrong. Now have a valium.

7:03/9:29:

H'okay, whatever you say, champ. Guess the share partners you talk to don't tell you much. 3 years ago it was 4:1, but they reduced the minimum/starting number of shares. Ask someone what shares were worth in 2006--with your 4:1 ratio, minimum shares would have been around 75% of PPP.

That's not to say that there are not any first year share partners with 1/4 the shares of JCH/TDY/whichever 2 or 3 others are maxed out (there may be), just to say that at least some/most of the first year share partners get only about 1/6th the shares of the top (yes, not 1/7--my memory/math/both (you pick) was faulty).

Yes, undoubtedly, anyone with 1/4 of top shares will make much, much more than any 2006 NSP. But there are many share partners who will not make as much as 1/4 of the top. Perhaps not in your group or in your office (esp. if you're in NYC), but trust me, they are there--ask around, someone will tell you the truth.

My questions for you, sir, are (1) do you expect the NSPs to do as well, as a group (exclude super-duper-stars and the merely adequate), total comp wise, as last year? (2) Do you see some lagging NSPs grossing (i.e. excluding the mandatory partner retirement plan contribution) less than 6th year superstars (i.e. around $400k+, assuming $150k+ bonuses for some)?