First

You win the internets, First.

SECONDTASTIC

thirdarrific

FIVTH as in www.fivth.com

Shout out to G-Money!

Is this really news now that it's obvious that every major NYC firm will match?

Not really "news," but still nice to watch the dominoes fall (and guess how long it will take to trickle down to me).

It's news to me, 12:43- just more peer pressure until my _generous_ employer steps up.

It's big news, 12:43!!!

Though I'm surprised, contrary to my earlier announcement, that Shearman wasn't the next to announce. So lame, especially since they finally decided to up their clerkship bonuses to market. Why do they always look weak and dither and delay when they end up matching anyhow... Weird.

Where's the memo Lat?

Any memoranda confirming the mini-boni for post-summer/2008 associates?

Come on, Willkie. Don't be slow!

What about DLA? When will they match?

Poor New Yorkers. As a second year associate at Kirkland last year, my bonus was $67,000 for 2250 hours. PWN3D!

As a former Biglaw-er who went to a smaller firm, works even *more* hours for far less $$, this is truly depressing. I want a career D.O.

All your internets are belong to me!

DLA? Seriously?

For those V50-100 firms that everyone is saying won't match, do people think they will at least raise bonuses this year?

Are these only for the NY offices?

Yes. DLA. If they want to be big players, they have to act like big players.

With regards to DLA - from what I understand they already paid above the traditional lock-step bonus to their nyc associates who fulfilled certain hours requirements. I could see them just sticking to this plan. Their partners aren't hurting (ppp is around $1.1M) but they're not swimming in cash like Cravath, S&C and the like. By tying it to hours firms like DLA can compensate those deserving of the extra pay without taking a big personal cut.

Does anyone have a (serious) opinion on what Magic Circle firms will do in NY?

There is going to be some outrage at DLA if they don't raise bonuses at all. They are way below the new market.

DL... (can't stop laughing) A?!?! No way they match.

Indeed, DLA's bonuses in NY last year topped the big NY firms. A bunch of associates there couldn't stop laughing, all the way to the bank.

Again...

Will the newly formed Dewey & LeBoeuf make a statement and match? Is D&L ready to play in the major leagues? Will D&L show some aggressiveness and play hardball with the big guys?

LaBeef at 1:40, with two redundant questions, I'm guess you're in Corporate.

F the special bonus. Now is when D&L should raise salaries.

why would there be outrage at DLA if they don't match?? if you "expect" the new bonus levels you should have done better at law school (heck, better in life generally) and got into a better firm that is genuinely top tier ... firms that are not top tier should stop stringing along associates, allowing them to think they work at a top tier firm - the longer they do so, the harder the fall will be when firms like DLA eventually don't "follow the leader" with compensation.

D&L is going to lead the market and I'm taking Beyonce in teh two spot at lucnh.

Could one firm make a power play and raise salaries to 170 in addition to matching bonuses?

I'm guessing that DL matches. They are now one of the biggest firms in NY, and they will want to show it.

Why hasn't anyone posted the Paul Weiss memo?

I am so amused by the way some of the associates in lower-ranked firms seem to "threaten" ("Match or see all your associates leave") or "tease/insult" ("Match or accept that you a third tier toilet") their firms into matching.

Come on now, if they do not match, SO WHAT?! So, all the associates at firm No. V50 are going to revolt, resign and all join Cravath and Simpson Thacher to teach V50 a lesson for daring not to "play with the big boys"? Right........

DLA will come close to matching.

has schulte matched?

can someone start a list of shame?

2:07: You seem like just the person to do it. Oh, and can someone get me a coffee?

2:01 - Unfortunately you're right. I, being the moron that I am, left a top-10 shop to come to quinn emanuel. I was told that bonuses are "market." They are not. *Maybe* if you bill 2300+ you'll get market. And there's nothing I can do about.

Is it typical for NY firms to pay bonuses this early? At my large Chicago firm, bonuses are typically paid in late January.

If it seems that all "top" firms pay lockstep bonuses, how do other high ranking firms get away with having min hour requirements? Aren't they immediately degrading themselves?

Lat: LIST OF SHAME!!! Which firms are NOT paying market-appropriate bonuses? What about the MoFos of the world who funded our "raise" by taking away our bonus!!

2:01 is right, I work at a V50-100 and I can't see how we're going to match this. Unlike many of the firms that will match, however, my firm is actually a pleasant place to work. So while it would be nice to match, big deal if we don't. I doubt many of the junior associates here (who are usually the ones complaining loudest about matching the Cravaths of the world) could take their "business" to those firms as a result of not matching. If anything, this will mean that the regular end of the year bonuses will be generous at my firm, and that's fine.

Are DC offices of the NYC firms who announced getting the same bonus?

How about pressuring the DC maket a little ... please...

Not "all top firms" pay lockstep bonuses. In fact, very few firms do this - Cravath, Sullivan, DPW, Simpson, Skadden, Cleary, Debevoise and a few more that I can't think of right now. But certainly, very few.

The lower ranked firms save money by making associates meet billable hours expectations before paying them bonus. That way, it looks like they're matching and they're a "top" firm, but really a good chunk of associates don't get full bonuses since there's not enough work for them to meet the billables. At "top" firms, making your billables is not an issue since there's so much work.

2:21 - they should be, but sometimes the word doesn't get out. Thus, let it be known that Quinn Emanuel, while marketing itself as one of the "go-to" litigation shops, and having very high hiring criteria (on which it prides itself), pays BELOW MARKET.

The lower ranked firms save money by making associates meet billable hours expectations before paying them bonus. That way, it looks like they're matching and they're a "top" firm, but really a good chunk of associates don't get full bonuses since there's not enough work for them to meet the billables. At "top" firms, making your billables is not an issue since there's so much work.

2:14 - If you got a job at Quinn Emanuel, you easily could jump back to a top-10 shop. You'd miss out on one year's bonus---actually just the difference between a big NYC bonus and Quinn's pretty decent bonus--- but it's a bit disingenuous to say that "there's nothing [you] can do about it." It's not like you went from Davis Polk to your family's personal injury firm in Rapid City. Quinn is one of the top regional law firms out west (which is probably why you joined up), and I doubt any top national firm would scoff at your attempt to lateral. So leave the whining to people who can't get jobs in BigLaw at all---L2L I'm looking at you.

2:01 - you are right, so what?
As an associate, I will just return to my desk, do what I am told, review documents and bill my hours.
The question is: do you want to keep your associates happy? Are you making an effort to keep them around?
That is the whole point.
So, you are right, they are not going to leave for Cravath or Paul Weiss, but their incentive level to stay and pursue a career at your firm will fall radically, knowing that there is someone out there working the same hours for more money.

The lower ranked firms save money by making associates meet billable hours expectations before paying them bonus. That way, it looks like they're matching and they're a "top" firm, but really a good chunk of associates don't get full bonuses since there's not enough work for them to meet the billables. At "top" firms, making your billables is not an issue since there's so much work.

2:30 - this is true, but when I said there's nothing I can do about it, I meant there's nothing I can do to increase Quinn's bonuses, which was basically me agreeing with 2:01.

The lower ranked firms save money by making associates meet billable hours expectations before paying them bonus. That way, it looks like they're matching and they're a "top" firm, but really a good chunk of associates don't get full bonuses since there's not enough work for them to meet the billables. At "top" firms, making your billables is not an issue since there's so much work.

We are pleased to announce that associates in good standing will receive a year-end bonus payment and special bonus as outlined below. Special bonuses will be paid on November 26th and year-end bonuses will be paid in the same manner as the regular December monthly paycheck, and will be subject to proration for those who arrived after January 1, 2007 and those on part-time schedules or other arrangements. Bonuses for counsel and other attorneys will be determined on an individual basis and will be communicated and paid according to the normal time schedule.

Class of 2007: Year-end bonus of $35,000 (pro-rated); no special bonus
Class of 2006: Year-end bonus of $35,000; special bonus of $10,000
Class of 2005: Year-end bonus of $40,000; special bonus of $15,000
Class of 2004: Year-end bonus of $45,000; special bonus of $20,000
Class of 2003: Year-end bonus of $50,000; special bonus of $30,000
Class of 2002: Year-end bonus of $55,000; special bonus of $40,000
Class of 2001: Year-end bonus of $60,000; special bonus of $50,000
Class of 2000 and senior: $65,000; special bonus of $50,000

The strength of the firm and our practice is a direct reflection of the talent and dedication of our lawyers. On behalf of the firm and our clients, thank you for the tremendous efforts you have made during an extremely busy year and for your continued commitment to Davis Polk.

The Management Committee

2:01 - The NALP deadline is 12/1. Law students will take firms' positions on the special bonus very seriously. They could perceive this as a very big deal or as just on small factor, but with decision time so close, any factor matters A LOT. This could be the difference between getting the summers you want (and, by extension, first years), or coming in at 50% of your target and needed to do way more 3L recruiting than realistically possible. The effects will carry into the next season or so, until something else happens to differentiate firms.

In addition to the havoc that firms will face in their junior ranks in the next couple of years, associates will be pissed off and less motivated. When a firm says (through inaction) that they are not the same as Cravath, et al. and won't pay the same, associates will feel that the firm doesn't deserve the same effort as Cravath and they will act accordingly.

Then, yes, some will leave for other firms, government work, in-house positions, boutiques, their own practices, to write movie scripts, or to run their uncle's fish market.

No, not EVERYONE will leave together on the same day in some big protest move, but many will leave, many will not come, and those that stay will be less profitable. Aren't those consequences dire enough?

2:26 (a.k.a. 2:28 and 2:32): please post your message one more time. Thanks.

Ah, 1:48's old ruse about you sucking at law and life if you're not at an "elite" firm. I've worked with and opposite people who have shared your view, 1:48. Those people have been, without fail, bad lawyers and unimpressive people. I doubt you're an exception.

dpw matched

2:47 is right on the money.

i want to hear from weil, sidley, milbank and willkie in the coming days....

tho ive already made up my mind, i think.

Is the DPW match tied to hours? Is there a special tax that results in an overall loss? What year will the bonus be distributed?

2:45 - I disagree with your analysis.

Your NALP deadline point is only valid with respect to firms the same students are actively weighing. Are you seriously suggesting that many students are choosing between Cravath/Simpson/Davis Polk and V50+?

As a follow-on to that (and in response to your second point), how many associates at V50+ really think that their firm is the same as Cravath?

I am all for higher compensation, but let's be fair here.

2:14 and 2:36 - actually not true, if a hight enough # of Quinn's associates left then they probably would be forced to up bonuses eventually. But you are right, this will not help out anyone in the near future. Also, Quinn is unique in that other similary ranked firms won't provide the exit opportunities that Quin has just due to their hiring criteria so for other firms these associates really can't do anything.....

I know Jones Day is like the money mafia when it comes to all this bonus business, but what will they do?

I kept getting error messages saying the post didn't go through, and then there it was 48 times.

2:53 - that's certainly valid. I guess my main point is just getting the word out that Quinn, although claiming to pay market, does not pay market. Everyone should know this, and let the chips fall where they may.

2:52

No, DPW's bonus is absolutely lockstep. Whether you bill 1800 or 2800, you get the exact same year-end bonus and special bonus.

2:52 - Substitute the least presitgious firm that matches for "Cravath."

I wasn't really referring to V50+, but rather V25-50. The original poster only said V50. Drawing the line is nto an exact science, but I'd agree that my analysis is not keyed to V50-100, particularly when there are many in that group that are not market on salary/bonus as it is. I don't think Cravath was trying to differentiate itself from 50-100 so much as from 25-50. They are the ones with more to lose.

will this separate the non V10, or V50??? If a wealthy V80 firm matches, and most of the V50-V80 doesn't, will that play into next years recruitment and lateral decisions.

Stay tuned.

Isn't it less painful for partnres at hours-based firms to pay the special bonus than for partners at true top tier firms?
Hours-based firms usually have a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio b/w associates and partners, whereas true top firms with huge corporate and litigation matters are closer to 4:1 or 5:1. Plus, the hours-based firms don't give bonuses to those that don't make hours, further reducing the amount of associates that they will actually have to pay a super bonus. At the end of the day, if only 15-20K is coming out of each partners' pocket at an hours-based firm where PPP is 1M-1.5M, isn't that less painful than 120K coming out of the pocket of each partner at a top tier firm where the PPP is 2M+?

2:57 (2:14 and 2:36) - Perhaps you need to reevaluate your definition of "market." Quinn probably pays bonus at or above other top regional firms. But if you took a job a small, two-office litigation quasi-boutique in California expecting to be in the same market as Cravath (at least with respect to bonuses), then you were fooling yourself. I think most people would understand that while both firms are top-notch, Quinn can't really compete when it comes to pure revenue generation.

3:07 - Suppose I'm in the New York office (hypothetically, of course). Suppose also that other firms that are a rung below Cravath will also match. And also suppose (not hypothetically) that Quinn's PPP last year was 2.4M, ranking it in the top 10. Was I still fooling myself?

2:52 -"Are you seriously suggesting that many students are choosing between Cravath/Simpson/Davis Polk and V50+?"

I can't speak for "many students" but I did. And boy, am I happy with the choice I made. Not everyone with top grades at an elite school is so insecure that they'll only be happy if they get to show off to their friends that they got into a firm that some book calls "the best." Vault ranking showed up exactly last on my list of determining factors (which is not to say it didn't show up at all). I'm interested to see if my firm matches at least in the NYC office (I suppose I could just look it up from last year), but willing to bet they did and will continue to do so (given that we mtached nationwide pay raises roughly within hours of the "elite" firms, although no one on here seemed to know about it). I wouldn't be surprised if it's tied to hours, but I don't mind that much, the kids who bill like crazy deserve the extra money.

You guys are all so lame, all this shit talking and analyzing firms and differentials in pay. We all do the same stupid ass work and all get paid pretty much the same (a few exceptions, obviously). And if you live in NY, it really isnt a lot. Making 200K a year in Manhattan makes you middle class. Get over it.

Anyone seen the Paul Weiss memo?

Vault Based List of Shame -

(Wachtell ommitted because, come on, seriously, they got more than this in their mid-year bonus)

Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP / $1,627,000
4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom / $997,000
5
6
7 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton LLP / $913,000
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP / $954,000
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000
12
13
14 Shearman & Sterling LLP / $992,000
15 Wilmer Cutler / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20 White & Case LLP / $600,000
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25 Clifford Chance LLP /
26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29 Fried, Frank, / $891,000
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP / $859,000
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35 Dewey Ballantine LLP / $782,000
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000

* Note the RPLs I could find are a little dated, so that's changed in the last 2 years for some firms, and for CWT, pretty dramatically.

* Note that some/most of these firms might have bonuses tied to hours - an thus they might never match this bonus.

ATL Based List of Shame

1. 8:38 PM

* Note that you are a loser.