suffering...

Um, Lat - 2300-2500 is not "extraordinary" in NY. Try more like "par for the course". This is a nice move by SRZ.

Gallion OUT!

where is paul hastings?

well done SRZ, well done.

yay schulte!

Full and complete disclosure--no room for guess work--I am impressed with their forthrighness.

what about schulte?

NYC Bonus List of Shame

2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2006 RPL
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $920,000
9
10
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $1,035,000(Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler / $890,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP / $955,000
17
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,050,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $855,000
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
* 26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $1,000,000 (Punted)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / $855,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $840,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37 Linklaters
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39
40
41 King and Spalding
* 42 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (Punted)
43
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Baker Botts LLP
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP / $980,000
47 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP / $1,025,000
48 Dechert LLP
49 Irell & Manella LLP / $1,050,000
* 50 McDermott, Will & Emery / $875,000 (Punted)
51 Jenner & Block LLP
52
53
54 DLA Piper
55
56 Fish & Richardson P.C.
57 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59 Goodwin Procter LLP
60 Cooley Godward LLP
...
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched w/ Performance Reqs.)
76. (Schulte Roth Matched w/ hours reqs.)
92. (Kramer Levin Matched w/ Perf. Reqs.)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BONUS STATUS BY 2006 RPL
Rank 2006 in revenue
by revenue Revenue per lawyer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Wachtell ABOVE MARKET $2,455,000 2.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Sullivan & Cromwell MARKET & ABOVE MARKET FOR SENIOR ASSOC. $1,565,000 1.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Wiley Rein $1,520,000 162.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Cravath MARKET $1,355,000 5.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Davis Polk MARKET $1,200,000 4.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Simpson Thacher-MARKET $1,200,000 6.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 McKee Nelson BELOW MARKET $1,190,000 1.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Milbank, Tweed MARKET $1,110,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 Skadden MARKET $1,095,000 10.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Cahill Gordon MARKET $1,075,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Fragomen, Del Rey $1,070,000 26.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Gibson, Dunn $1,050,000 4.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Irell & Manella $1,050,000 9.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Kirkland & Ellis PUNTED $1,035,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Paul, Weiss MARKET $1,035,000 0.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 Munger, Tolles $1,025,000 18.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 Quinn Emanuel $1,020,000 28.3% SLIGHTLY ABOVE MARKET BUT PARTIALLY DEFERRED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Shearman & Sterling MARKET $1,010,000 2.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Debevoise & Plimpton MARKET $1,005,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Cadwalader BONUS ANNOUNCED, NO $ FIGURES $1,000,000 6.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Boies, Schiller $980,000 3.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Weil, Gotshal MARKET $980,000 2.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Cleary Gottlieb MARKET $975,000 7.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Willkie Farr MARKET $970,000 12.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Williams & Connolly $955,000 2.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Finnegan, Henderson $945,000 11.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Townsend and Townsend $940,000 6.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Fried, Frank $930,000 MARKET 4.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 Schulte Roth MATCHED W/ HOURS REQS. $925,000 6.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 Latham & Watkins $920,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 Wilmer Cutler $890,000 5.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 McDermott Will PUNTED $875,000 12.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Kaye Scholer MARKET WITH POSSIBILITY OF MORE & PERF. REQS. $865,000 7.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Arnold & Porter $855,000 4.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ropes & Gray $855,000 1.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Choate, Hall $850,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Kramer Levin MARKET W/ PERF. REQS. $850,000 6.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 Heller Ehrman $845,000 5.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
39 Akin Gump $840,000 7.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Hughes Hubbard $835,000 12.1%

Not listed: Dewey (Market with hours requirement)
Clifford Chance (Market)
White & Case (Market)
Morgan Lewis (Punted)
Covington (Special Bonus - Regular Bonus not yet announced)
Sidley (Special Bonus - Regular Bonus not yet announced)
Freshfields (Market)
Allen & Overy (Market)
Proskauer (Market with hours reqs.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bonus List of Shame
by NY Attorneys (Source: Crains)

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)
16) Wilson Elser
17)
18)
19) Latham & Watkins
20)
21)
22)
23)
24)
25) Greenberg Traurig

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non-NY Bonus List of Shame:
(firms not matching in all domestic offices)

Firm (Offices that DID match)
1) Dewey & LeBoeuf (NYC)
2) Fried Frank (NYC)
3) White & Case (NYC)
4) Sidley Austin (NYC)
5) Covington & Burling (NYC)
6) Proskauer (NYC, LA, Boston)

There was a poll of NYC associates on ATL maybe last year around bonus time. It showed that average billables were around 2100 to 2200.

So 2300 hours, and definitely 2500 hours, is out of the ordinary (even for New York Biglaw).

Since when is 2300 "extraordinary, even by biglaw standards"? Try making partner with less than that (although, I suppose partnership is quite extraordinary).

$10,000 divided by 200 = $50....

how much are you billing out at again?

1:59, these aren't billable hours, they're "target hours." So add pro bono, some pitch work, etc. 2300 is nothing.

1:59 - if you think that is average, you are a grade A moron. Ever think that the people surfing ATL all day and voting in stupid polls might be people that aren't doing a lot of work? Take 50 random NY BIGLAWERS and ask them if they think 2300 is "extraordinary" - you'll get laughed out of the room by most if not all. 2300-2500 is completely, utterly ordinary for people in NY that aren't in dog practice groups with no work or just lazy jackasses.

Gallion OUT!

Well played, SRZ, well played. . .

So at 2000 hours you get market bonus, and for 2300 hours you get $10K more?

Woo-hoo! You get a whopping $33/hour while the firm walks off with over $100K in billables.

$10K is no incentive whatsoever to bill anymore than the absolute minimum.

more like 10,000 divided by 300= $33.33 (at first bump)---barely above minimum wage--certainly not time and a half

2:05----sounds like "sweat shop" wages to me---do Schulte associates buy into this?

What does a "target hour" consist of? Most firms count only billable hours and pro bono hours (and perhaps time spent on BD) into the target figure. Do Schulte's "target hours" factor in time spent at firm seminars, training, mentoring, or performing committee work?

2:05 - I completely agree with you that on a dollar per hour basis, it is not worth trying for the 10K bump-up. But if you are already working that many hours, likemany if not most NY Biglawers, this is essentially not a match but a bump up.

This is much better described as "match and raise for anyone with 2300 or above" rather than "match with hours requirement," as some stupidposter above described it. In the end, someone who bills 2300 at SRZ, which is a lot of people, is going to make 10K more than the same person at Cravath, et al. I'd take it.

If I were an SRZ associate, I would think the firm played this very nicely indeed.

Gallion OUT!

i dont think anyone works an extra 300 hrs to get a bonus. you get the bonus because you worked an extra 300 hours, which you wouldn't get at all at many other firms

Generally, you don't get to say, "I'm at 2000 hours, I am not accepting more assignments." At least that is not the case where I work. Therefore, while the compensation is not fantastic for the additional 300 hours or 500 hours, it is still more than you get for 2300 or 2500 at many of the top firms.

2:09 - exactly. at least one other person out here gets it.

Real question now is will any other firm match the extra 10K and 20K for 2300 and 2500, respectively?

Gallion OUT!

2:05(1) - It's not alway about the "incentive" necessarily. Sometimes there's enough work that an associate ends up with 2300 hours whether or not they wanted to. At SRZ, that means you get (at least) 10k more than most other firms...what's so wrong about that?

Points well taken I am covinced Hail Schulte!

A simpler list - no one cares about RPL/PPL - just the market.

NYC Bonus List of Shame

2008 Vault Rank
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP
9
10
*11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler
16 Williams & Connolly LLP
17
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
*26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Punted)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37 Linklaters
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39
40
41 King and Spalding
*42 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (Punted)
43
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Baker Botts LLP
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48 Dechert LLP
49 Irell & Manella LLP
*50 McDermott, Will & Emery (Punted)
51 Jenner & Block LLP
52
53
54 DLA Piper
55
56 Fish & Richardson P.C.
57 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59 Goodwin Procter LLP
60 Cooley Godward LLP
...
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched w/ Performance Reqs.)
76. (Schulte Roth Matched w/ hours reqs.)
92. (Kramer Levin Matched w/ Perf. Reqs.)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)

Points well taken I am convinced Hail Schulte!

Gallion

I have asked that question many times to a wide range of friends in various v5 and v10 firms. The answers are consistent: 1900-2100 is average, a fair number of associates (certainly not majority) exceed this (even hitting 2300-2500).

But 2300-2500 is NOT average. We really must dispel that stupid rumor.

Gallion, there is a 2000 hour requirement for any bonus. That's an hours requirement. Maybe it should read "Match with hours requirement and possibility of more" but to ignore the hours requirement hides that Schulte is still screwing over people in slow practice groups.

Will people stop posting the stupid page long lists of shame every five fricken minutes? get a life.

Gallion OUT!

gallion out!

i like that guy

Gallion, since all you do is surf ATL all day, is it that you are not in Biglaw at all, in a dog practice group with no work, or just a lazy jackass?

What do you know about billing 2,000 hours in the first place?

2:16 - you must know a lot of losers. I've worked at two V10 firms and I don't know (and am not sure I ever have known) anyone billing 1900. What a flaming joke. And to get a senior position at a firm? try applying with 7 years of 1900. Hahahahaha.

The few people don't get crushed in NY are usually the jackasses who make sure to tell everyone about it. THEY are in the minority. Seems like you know a lot of them, which makes me sad for you.

It's time to stop the rumor that 2000 is average. We all get killed on hours and everyone knows it.

Gallion OUT!

p.s. personally I don't even mind the 2000 hours bade req't, because, having gotten crushed at two lockstep no-hours-req't firms - I'm tired of watching the 1800 hour pricks laughing all the way to the bank when everyone I know if working 600 more hours than them. I'm not sure 1800 deserves a bonus at all.

srz's clerkship bonus is still way below market

I don't know why you morons try to calculate your hourly pay then think it is a rip off that the firm benefits from your $100K+ in billables. You're not getting paid by the hour, you're getting paid to serve your clients and partners, regardless of what that works out to per hour. If you want to enjoy more of the benefits of what you actually bill, open your own damn law firm and deal with paying the bills, overhead, training programs, your office supplies, and everything else that is essential to your practice.

You're not getting paid by the hour, so get over it. If you want to make more money, go into banking or own the damn firm.

Lawyers are lawyers because they would suck as business people. A brilliant mind does NOT equal being rich or well compensated, so quit complaining the bonuses are inadequate. You probably spent 1000 of those billables on mind less work a monkey could have done anyway.

2:16 - you must know a lot of losers. I've worked at two V10 firms and I don't know (and am not sure I ever have known) anyone billing 1900. What a flaming joke. And to get a senior position at a firm? try applying with 7 years of 1900. Hahahahaha.

The few people don't get crushed in NY are usually the jackasses who make sure to tell everyone about it. THEY are in the minority. Seems like you know a lot of them, which makes me sad for you.

It's time to stop the rumor that 2000 is average. We all get killed on hours and everyone knows it.

Gallion OUT!

p.s. personally I don't even mind the 2000 hours req't, because, having gotten crushed at two lockstep no-hours-req't firms - I'm tired of watching the 1800 hour pricks laughing all the way to the bank when everyone I know is working 600 more hours than them. I'm not sure 1800 deserves a bonus at all in NY.

Unlike many other firms, Schulte has no state Pro Bono cap. While there may be an actual limit in place to avoid abuse, even if you are slow at 1700 there is enough pro bono, client development and other target matters that you should hit 2000K target hours...unless you are a lazy a** and duck out at 4:30pm every day or surf the web instead of taking on pro bono.

First!

2:16 - What's your point? 2300 hours is above average, so the pay for 2300 hours is above average. Please explain to me why you have such a problem with this.

Guten Tag.

S&C has just announced a special 10K bonus for everyone working on Nazi matters.

Field Marshal DiBlasi

At SRZ 2300-2500 is not average for a junior associate, but almost everyone has no problem getting to 2000. If you are a mid-level associate or above, good luck not getting to 2300 hours.

SRZ is doing a good thing, not a bad thing. You are working the hours anyway, and they compensate extra for that whereas most firms don't. Anyone who really believes that the "lockstep" firms don't get 2000 hours from associates that are performing up to expectations is in for a reality check.

2:30 - "Anyone who really believes that the "lockstep" firms don't get 2000 hours from associates that are performing up to expectations is in for a reality check."

Well-stated and completely true.

Gallion

If all my friends (primarly HYS) at v5 and v10 firms are losers, then I think all these firms are going down - with that many losers working for them in all departments (securites, M&A, finance, etc.).

Let's be clear that I do not doubt anyone at a top firm who claims he/she billed 2300-2500; of course there are associates who do. Heck, a good friend billed 2800. But my point is, that is NOT the average. I stand by my assertion that the majority of associates bill 1900-2100 (ok, maybe expand it to 1900-2200 at most).

A further caveat - my friends and I are all junior associates. Things may well change when we get to 4th-8th year.

Lat,

Where's the Cal Bar results post?!

2:33 - you are all in for a very rude awakening coming very soon. and you're simply wrong if you think the average at NY sweatshops is so low (or you've bought into your firm's lies in this regard - never believe any numbers they give you on averages, they are usually lowballed by several hundred).

Gallion OUT!

What would be great if all firms agreed not to pay bonuses. Then that would be market. Then it would get attorneys to shut their pie holes and keep billing. Where else are they going to go, really? Really?

B (2:27)

I think you misunderstood. I have no problems at all with people getting more when they bill 2300, 2500 or 2800. They deserve it.

My gripe is just with people who persistently claim that all associates bill 2500 on average - that is simply not true. My point is completely unrelated to SRZ's bonus.

2:36 - well, they could go to private equity, hedge funds, wall street, etc... and make 3X what they make now. Is that a good enough answer to your stupid question?

Gallion OUT!

poor Zabel, left off the masthead of his firm on ATL.

Well said Gallion - not to mention according to NALP, the 2000 hour target "includes pro bono, writing, marketing, and other approved non-billable work."

fair enough!

So if I worked at SRZ, I'd take home 320k this year. Instead, I don't work at SRZ and I will take home less than half of that. SRZ are you hiring?

I love Gallion.

"2:36 - well, they could go to private equity, hedge funds, wall street, etc... and make 3X what they make now. Is that a good enough answer to your stupid question?"

No they wouldn't. Most lawyers don't have a proclivity towards that line of work and surely didn't need to go to law school if those types of jobs were there inclination. And if you think those positions are so attractive, they certainly would be so regardless if a firm paid a few tens of thosands more, which isn't really a lot in the first place.

cal bar results post???

keep telling yourself that, 2:45. hahaha.

2:02 said-
1:59, these aren't billable hours, they're "target hours." So add pro bono, some pitch work, etc. 2300 is nothing.

That would be true if SRZ didn't cap "target-A" non-client-billable hours (i.e. pro bono, pitch work, ect.) at 30 hours per quarter. Plus I know that if you hit that 30 hour cap two quarters in a row for whatever reason you will get a talking to by the partnership.

Going in-house. You're a loser.

Doesn't everyone at Cravath work 2500 hours? It seems to me, then, that Cravath has been outbidded by both S&C and Schute. Cravath needs to step up and pay more money.

2:02 - That is not true. There is no ceiling for pro bono at SRZ.

If you don't think that 2300-2500 is not extraordinary than you are a tool. Its above the statistical average even for Big Law New York. You may impress other tools by bragging you billed 2400 last year, but the guy next to you who billed 200 to earn may be 20K less than won't be impressed.

2:56 - to answer your question, yes. And your point is correct. CSM just got beat by Schulte, plain and simple.

But their excuse (like other similar firms) for not matching this will be that they don't have a formal billable requirement and so they don't do that kind of thing. The firms who Schulte really just stuck it to are V20 firms WITH billable requirements.

Didn't LeBoeuf give additional bonuses after certain +2000 hrs levels like this last year...so will D&L not continue this?

So are you saying that SRZ lies on its NALP form when they state that there's no maximum credit for pro bono hours?

Seriously, 2300-2500 is excessive and almost impossible unless you work 10+ hours a day 7 days a week. If you can rock it, good for you, but you are definitely a lifeless husk of a person.

2000, 2100 = sweet spot.

Hey "I bench 285 and 340 when I was on steroids"

maybe if you didn't spend so much time writing idiotic bitter posts on blogs you would have been able bench 4 and squat 5 when you were on steroids...you were probably just doing mindless bench pressing and flies that a monkey could do.

this is not new for schulte. last year they paid 10k for reaching 2300 and 20k for reaching 2500 so they have been beating those other v20 firms for some time.

Um, 3:03 - it is nowhere near impossible and that is what a lot of people work - 10 hours a day is on the low end actually. Why do you think NY associates are miserable and turnover/burnout is so ridiculously high???

Any chance this is the beginning of a move up the vault rankings for Schulte? At some point, won't they be recruiting more talent than firms paying less? Or is law firm hiring really not a free market system but rather one protected by firm reputation?

3:09 - doubt it. SRZ still sucks.

3:03, I think most associates will agree that 2000-2100 is the sweet spot if you can get it (it certainly is in terms of $/hour).

But when you're working at a big firm, you don't have a lot of choice most of the time. If you get put on a big case or deal, you will bill more. And frankly, that is where you will get the best experience a lot of the time, if you're into the whole professional development thing. At my firm (and perhaps others), you have to actively drag your feet to be in the 2000-2100 range.

what % of their work is hedge fund related?

98%? - It's all they talk about in interviews...

3:14 ---- not true -- I interviewed with someone from Litigation and I had to bring up the HF work --- depends on who you talk to

Cerebus is one of their big clients -- it thinkg 20% of their rev

About 1/3rd of SRZ's revenues come directly from hedge funds, according to a NYT article over the summer.

3:16 so true--I interviewed with them at CLS and the interviewer was a real dork---I was interested in litigation and all he said was Hege Funds, Hedge Funds, Hedge Funds--I thought he was talking about the bushes in my front yard. I didn't even accept the call back.

2:45 - well put.

Gallion - you are an idiot. For an explanation of why, see 2:45's post, or talk to my good friend Common Sense.

Yes, some people bill 2300-2500, and occasionally they don't get more than the 1800 crowd. These people are called suckers, and you've admitted to being one of them. So stop acting like you know how it is.

S**t...I don't know where you're all working... But, the median billables in our non-NYC Skadden M&A office (17 associates and 4 partners) is 2,820...running from Oct. 06 through Oct. 07. We have some weenie coming in at 2,113 for some reason...but, the median is 2,820. I am proud to say that I am NOT above the median... However, I would qualify for the step-bonus if we had one.

I think Schulte is doing a GREAT thing here. Not because it's a lot of money...but, that the partnership sends the message that work is rewarded. The should be complimented on this decision...

SRZ represented Cerberus in our going private transaction and the SRZ M&A group was schultastic and zabalicious.

skadden 2nd yr. - that blows. have you been able to enjoy your life at all, or are you working 6-7 day weeks every week?

Sure, you can't always help the fact that you billed 2300 for the year, but whether you were shooting for it or not, 10k is not worth the extra 300 hours, so if i ended up with 2300 i'd be pissed because i got paid relatively little for a lot of extra work

3:03

Hey math guy - Billing 10 hours a day, 7 days a week would be 3640 hours. Billing 10 hours a day and never working a weekend with four weeks vacation would be 2400 hours.

Maybe you should find something to bill while you're at work.

Seriously - I don't like the requirement, but you could work 9-7:30 if you started working the moment you got in and took a 30-minute lunch and you'd make 2400 hours and never work a weekend.

That would be a pretty good life.

skadden 2nd yr. you must work in the boston office. you also just sort of outed yourself.

i knew the litigators in that office could get slaughtered but I didn't know the corporate people did as well. that sounds horrible.

Yeah, it BLOWS.... It's 50 weeks per year...six days a week...9 or 10 hours billable a day.

But, the work is interesting. I wish I could date more though...and spend more time on ATL. Don't we have a presidential election coming up?

manko - and at other firms, you would get nothing for that extra time. At least SRZ gives you something.

Most junior associates in good standing are at around 2000 hours. However, most mid-level and senior associates, especially in the M&A group, get to the 2500 hour level year after year. I imagine it's the same story at most top M&A shops.

skadden 2nd yr. - I imagine there's tons of attrition in that office. people must be jumping ship at their first opportunity right?

sounds utterly brutal.

3:36: Never feel sorry for people who work at Skadden. We don't deserve it. I'm just glad to have a job. (And, I'm not in Boston...)

Bill 2300 most law firms = Manko pissed
Bill 2300 at SRZ = Manko pissed with 10K (pre-tax) in hand.

I don't know many people who want 300 exta hours. However, if I did work those hours I would prefer to get some extra cash for it.

Skadden 2L - Quit complaining. You have a great job in a great city (Go Sox!) I will bill close to 3000 hours this year and my firm won't treat me any differently than the jackass down the hall billing 1900 hours. I also make less than half what you make and I am several years more senior. If you really think your job "blows" please leave so I can have it.

That is a very sad story 3:42.

skadden 2l -- are you in the dc office?

3:39: I read somewhere that 61% of all starting 1yrs. leave Skadden by the end of their 4th year. I'm not sure if that's true...but, having been here only 2 years...and looking around...yeah, it's probably close.

A fifth year (who I trust) told me he gets calls from a headhunter every 48 hours. So, the temptation to leave it always there I suppose. I'm sure the same is true at most large firms vis-a-vis headhunters. With the credit crunch...who knows what'll happen to lateral hiring though.

Listen, my perspective is that it's hard to do better than Skadden in many respects. 2,600 hours here is like 2,600 hours anywhere. I hate it when I hear people at top five firms (like Skadden) saying how bad life is because they bill so much. One hour in my office is the same as one hour in yours. I bet in the scheme of things I probably bill 200 hours more than the average M&A attorney at any of the top 50 firms. That's not much in the scheme of things.

True things about SRZ:

1. "Target A" hours include billable work, pro bono, recruiting (not including summer lunches), and business development.

2. There is no cap on Target A hours.

3. In-house training and seminars do not count as Target A.

Thank you all for reading.

3:42: I'm not complaining about Skadden...I'm was simply telling another poster that billing 2,820 in 12 months...BLOWS.... You billed 3k...you KNOW that it blows.

If you're going to do it though...Skadden is the place for the very reasons I already stated: one hour at my office is still 60 minutes everywhere else...

skadden 2l -- are you billing the time it takes you to write the 32 posts you have on this thread?

3:55: Actually yes... I consider it market analysis...and at $550 an hour...the client is getting off cheap. Now, if I was a 5th year...it would be cost prohibitive for the client...so I am enjoying it while I can. Besides...it's Friday...tomorrow is the end of the week for me.

2300 - 2500 is extraordinary. 2800 is insane. Gallion is an idiot and a tool

that was great!

Hey...my last post today: Schulte should be complimented on this bonus plan. It's a nice gesture for those associates who are kicking ass.

"Hey 'I bench 285 and 340 when I was on steroids'

maybe if you didn't spend so much time writing idiotic bitter posts on blogs you would have been able bench 4 and squat 5 when you were on steroids...you were probably just doing mindless bench pressing and flies that a monkey could do."

Barry Bonds, what I meant to say is that I bench pressed your mom, so I'm benching a good 397. It would have been 400, but for some unforeseen reason, your mom decided to put down the case of twinkies she was devouring.

And I don't squat heavy anymore. My back was never the same after that encounter with your mom.

Short of prepping for trial or actually being on trial (or whatever analogous task there is for transaction work), there is no doubt in my mind that people who consistently bill 2400+ hours are egregriously (and unethically) padding their hours.

There's a whole class of Associates (usually BIGLAW) who have come to believe that every second they are in the office is "billable" time. It's a crock.

4:05 ---- that doesn't make any sense. If the work is there then the work is there. You must work at one of those overstaffed underutilized firms. hahahaha

I live for the law, so why should my client not get billed for the time I take to pee after lunch? or for lunch for that matter? But for the fact that they have all this work for me I would not want to live anyway. So, I consider my entire life billable. I LIVE for the client.

i wonder what the staff attorneys will get? I hope at least a glazed ham.

i wonder what the staff attorneys will get? I hope at least a glazed ham.

i wonder what the staff attorneys will get? I hope at least a glazed ham.

SRZ does NOT cap pro bono and recruiting hours - and I've NEVER heard of anyone getting a talking to for billing too many. I know many people who have had multiple months where the pro bono/recruiting hours were up near 100 and nothing bad happened to them.

If you are interested in hedge funds it's actually a really great place to work. If you are not interested in hedge funds (which I wasn't) it sucks and is the number one reason people leave.

BOSTON FIRMS GET ON YOUR HORSE

Christ, has anyone looked at Schulte's attorney directory? Do they have an underground tunnel leading from the graduation platforms at Cardozo and Fordham?

Staff Attorney -- No ham, but there will be free lessons on how to post things only once.

Pressing "post" is like the elevator button or cross-walk, people think they need to press it more than once. Understandable since posting to this site is excrutiatingly slow. Get a new server lat.

When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure? When will Kaye Scholer match the Schulte 2300/2500 bonus structure?

Pressing "post" is like the elevator button or cross-walk, people think they need to press it more than once. Understandable since posting to this site is excrutiatingly slow. Get a new server lat.

Pressing "post" is like the elevator button or cross-walk, people think they need to press it more than once. Understandable since posting to this site is excrutiatingly slow. Get a new server lat.

Holy Crap (4:19),
There are a lot of people here from NYC schools, because it's an NYC-only firm. Lots of NYU, Fordham, Cardozo, Columbia (probably in that order). We have a handful of Cornell people as well, and a few from New York Law and Brooklyn.

Pressing "post" is like the elevator button or cross-walk, people think they need to press it more than once. Understandable since posting to this site is excrutiatingly slow. Get a new server lat.

Schulte is big about recruiting at schools where partners went - so there are also a high number of Tulane and Georgetown lawyers as well - there was once a summer were 7 of the 50 summers were from georgetown.

We love srz and szr luvs us!

We want on the SRZ gravvy train!!!

4:05: Exactly. Also, I love how the person billing 1800 hours getting the same bonus as some martyr "billing" 2300 hours is a loser in some people's eyes.

"I bench 285 and 340 when I was on steroid"

You just proved your intellectual inferiority....everybody knows that a case of twinkies weighs more than 3 pounds.

4:44 - there should be a blog just about those associates (nauseating)

Sorry if I missed it in the earlier comments, but can any Schulte associate define what qualifies (at Schulte) as "eligible non-billable" hours?
Thanks.

4:57, see 3:49(3)

so...as someone considering latham for the summer, would it be totally inappropriate to somehow hint about the bonus list of shame?

and anyone have any thoughts on skadden dc versus latham dc for project finance/corporate work?

5:02, Thanks.

While my classmates are getting 65 large at other firms, I'm likely getting half that at a firm that claims it pays market, and I've billed 2413 hours thus far in '07. Anyone know a good headhunter?

5:07, let's stay on topic here!

5:23 - i know, im sorry! just having trouble deciding...

The various calculations in these comments relating to the marginal value to an associate billing 2300 or 2500 hours really miss the point.

I graduated from law school in 1997, worked in a boutique (billed 2800+ hours my first year and 2600+ hours my second year), moved to biglaw for three years (never billed less than 2500 hours, even as overall pace at teh firm slowed), then in-house at a Fortune 50 for not quite 5 years (worked marginally fewer hours for half the pay, notg counting the wampum mis-named stock options), then back to biglaw, where the pace hasn't slowed.

I couldn't work fewer hours if I wanted to (I don't) because those hours are what it takes to serve the clients' needs and to work on the mostly very interesting matters I'm on. Clients don't hire us at our premium rates unless there's a lot at stake, so we had better jump on the things they give us and move with all due speed -- that means real hours. I don't understand what the "incentive" of an extra $10 or $20k means -- either the clients and partners want you on their matters, in which case you bill whatever the matters require, or they don't, in which case you are in the wrong profession.

If you don't like your job (and from the whining on this board, I'd guess a lot of the commenters don't), then do something else. LIfe's too short.

Finally, ask your assistant, or the people in the mail room, or anyone working on the non-professional staff at your firm if they'd work an extra four hours a week for an extra $10k -- anyone think they'd gripe about it?

Latham, what a shame. Top 10 firm, no bonus. Stop being greedy and pay your associates what they deserve.

Any associate making that kind of money for a firm, should consider going solo

5:45 -- try getting those clients when you go solo. Therein lies the trade-off.

Looks like all those hardass big shots billing 2,800 hours a year all went home.

5:31, Great, you just anonymously tooted your own horn on a law blog. Glad to hear you love to bill. Unfortunately, no one gives a f*ck.

I'm sure when I miss one of my kids soccer games again he'll take comfort in the fact that I love my job and thus it's fun for me to bill 2800 hours a year.

What have these firms done to make the workplace more down-syndrome friendly?

NYC Bonus List of Shame

2008 Vault Rank
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP
9
10
*11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler
16 Williams & Connolly LLP
17
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
*26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Punted)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37 Linklaters
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39
40
41 King and Spalding
*42 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (Punted)
43
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Baker Botts LLP
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48 Dechert LLP
49 Irell & Manella LLP
*50 McDermott, Will & Emery (Punted)
51 Jenner & Block LLP
52
53
54 DLA Piper
55
56 Fish & Richardson P.C.
57 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59 Goodwin Procter LLP
60 Cooley Godward LLP
61 Alston & Bird
62 Heller Ehrman
63 Vinson & Elkins
64 Bingham McCutchen
65 Sonnenschein Nath
66 Greenberg Traurig
67
68 Holland & Knight
69 Steptoe & Johnson
70 Foley & Lardner
71 Kirkpatrick & Lockhart
72 Chadbourne & Parke
73 Hunton & Williams
74 Nixon Peabody
75 Thacher Proffitt
76 Bryan Cave
77
78 Perkins Coie
79 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
80 Patton Boggs
80 Howrey
81 Thacher Proffitt & Wood
82 Reed Smith
83 Crowell & Moring
84 McGuireWoods
85 Hughes Hubbard & Reed
86 Arent Fox
87 Katten Muchin Rosenman
88 Finnegan, Henderson
89 Dorsey & Whitney
90 Thelen Reid & Priest
91 Baker & Hostetler
92
93 Venable
94 Squire, Sanders & Dempsey
95 Kelley Drye & Warren
96 Dickstein Shapiro
97 Fenwick & West
98 Kilpatrick Stockton
99 Mintz, Levin, Cohn,
100 Manatt, Phelps & Phillips

NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)

NYC Bonus List of Shame

2008 Vault Rank
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP
9
10
*11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler
16 Williams & Connolly LLP
17
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
*26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Punted)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37 Linklaters
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39
40
41 King and Spalding
*42 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (Punted)
43
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Baker Botts LLP
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48 Dechert LLP
49 Irell & Manella LLP
*50 McDermott, Will & Emery (Punted)
51 Jenner & Block LLP
52
53
54 DLA Piper
55
56 Fish & Richardson P.C.
57 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59 Goodwin Procter LLP
60 Cooley Godward LLP
61 Alston & Bird
62 Heller Ehrman
63 Vinson & Elkins
64 Bingham McCutchen
65 Sonnenschein Nath
66 Greenberg Traurig
67
68 Holland & Knight
69 Steptoe & Johnson
70 Foley & Lardner
71 Kirkpatrick & Lockhart
72 Chadbourne & Parke
73 Hunton & Williams
74 Nixon Peabody
75 Thacher Proffitt
76 Bryan Cave
77
78 Perkins Coie
79 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
80 Patton Boggs
81 Howrey
82 Reed Smith
83 Crowell & Moring
84 McGuireWoods
85 Hughes Hubbard & Reed
86 Arent Fox
87 Katten Muchin Rosenman
88 Finnegan, Henderson
89 Dorsey & Whitney
90 Thelen Reid & Priest
91 Baker & Hostetler
92
93 Venable
94 Squire, Sanders & Dempsey
95 Kelley Drye & Warren
96 Dickstein Shapiro
97 Fenwick & West
98 Kilpatrick Stockton
99 Mintz, Levin, Cohn,
100 Manatt, Phelps & Phillips

unbelievable...My firm pays $0 no matter how many hours you work...and they are on the list of shame.

Lat, how about another "how many hours did you work this year" poll
50 hour increments from 1600 (Skadden's min) to 2500

12:15 - name names. no one gives a shit unless you name names.

These matched. Get with it.
Mintz, Levin, Cohn,
Hughes Hubbard & Reed
Dorsey & Whitney

NYC Bonus List of Shame

2008 Vault Rank
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP
9
10
*11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler
16 Williams & Connolly LLP
17
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
*26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Punted)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37 Linklaters
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39
40
41 King and Spalding
*42 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (Punted)
43
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Baker Botts LLP
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48 Dechert LLP
49 Irell & Manella LLP
*50 McDermott, Will & Emery (Punted)
51 Jenner & Block LLP
52
53
54 DLA Piper
55
56 Fish & Richardson P.C.
57 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59 Goodwin Procter LLP
60 Cooley Godward LLP
61 Alston & Bird
62 Heller Ehrman
63 Vinson & Elkins
64 Bingham McCutchen
65 Sonnenschein Nath
66 Greenberg Traurig
67
68 Holland & Knight
69 Steptoe & Johnson
70 Foley & Lardner
71 Kirkpatrick & Lockhart
72 Chadbourne & Parke
73 Hunton & Williams
74 Nixon Peabody
75 Thacher Proffitt
76 Bryan Cave
77
78 Perkins Coie
79 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
80 Patton Boggs
81 Howrey
82 Reed Smith
83 Crowell & Moring
84 McGuireWoods
85
86 Arent Fox
87 Katten Muchin Rosenman
88 Finnegan, Henderson
89
90 Thelen Reid & Priest
91 Baker & Hostetler
92
93 Venable
94 Squire, Sanders & Dempsey
95 Kelley Drye & Warren
96 Dickstein Shapiro
97 Fenwick & West
98 Kilpatrick Stockton
99
100 Manatt, Phelps & Phillips

If you're billing over 2500 hours a year - you deserve it.

Next time pick an office of a firm or a different firm entirely that isn't known to be a sweat shop.

I'm in at a V20, picked one of the more laid back offices in California, and many of the junior associates are amazed I was able to bill as "high" as 2200. Did I mention I have an ocean view? That's money right there, while the rest of you stare at smog (L.A.) or into the window of other buildings around you (NYC).

^^And as further to my post, I guarantee you're not better off on a path to partnership more than I am, nor have you learned any more than me. But, what you have gained more than I have is much bitterness...

1:01, Dorsey & Whitney matched? Wow! I think that they still pay minimum wage in the home office, Minneapolis. Sad!

I am on pace to bill 3200 this year (I am almost to 3000) isn't my firm violating wage and hour laws? I am not the highest biller in my group!

Someone please help me!!!

4:05 is correct. Lawyers in big firms pad their hours. The whole process incentivizes them to do that. As long as clients keep paying for it, it won't change. Unless he's kidding 4:00 PM (Skadden 2nd year) is an example. What a joke.

3:58/4:00 - Hello kettle, I'm pot and you're black. Will you please go back and read your posts? If we're going to gauge the relative bitterness of all of the posts on this thread... I think you are WAY up there. In fact, congratulations, you have won the bitterness award! I just hope the trophy isn't so big it blocks your ocean view. And by the way, if I wanted to work at your office and share your ocean view... I'm pretty sure I could. I'm in NYC because I WANT to be. I certainly had options and have no bitterness or regrets about my decision. The moment I do have such bitterness and regret is the day I occupy the office right down the hall from you... yeah, the one on the corner with both mountain AND ocean views. See you in a couple years.

i'm a second year. if i pick my career track I would go with the ocean-view guy, not the i-love-my-shattastick-65hr/wk-job-b/c-i-serve-the-clients'-needs guy.

i feel sorry for anyone with no work-life balance. you toil your one life away for what? for money? is your money that good? for clients? gimme a break.

shattastick?

DC FIRMS STEP UP NOW!!!!!!!!!

3:30=comedian

DC list of shame

Arent Fox
Arnold & Porter
Dickstein
Hogan
Holland
Mayer Brown
Patton Boggs
Squire Sanders

latham will match the special and regular bonuses and will give additional merit based bonuses to the deserving associates. they are not, however, going to change their internal review process and announce bonuses earlier than mid to end of january. the review process began last week and will run its long and tedious course.

11:14am - if you can see any bitterness in my posts, I feel sorry for you and your own lens of bitterness that you are unaware of. My posts are directed to those who choose to work/live there, and then complain they work so much that they are ENTITLED to more money based on their hours and the fact they are in the NY market.

Hey, I love NY too, but I'm not about to trade a more balanced lifestyle to toil 2500 + for the same amount on the west AND for a place where the weather is great probably only 3-4 months of the year, if that.

11:14am - And just because you may have gone to a top 10 school and work in NY doesn't mean you have an automatic shot at any office. I'll tell you that our firm is pretty good and sniffing out jerk-offs we know won't fit in in our office.