FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see Electronic Blue Book

works for Macs and PC's...I am sure there are plenty others out there

First to say Macs suck

Then Macs MUST recuse themselves.

Extegrity administered the Virginia Bar Exam. They were awesome and on top of their game. Notice how you had no stories of the Virginia Bar Exam Cluster&#*!. They had some big-wig in the company (I think the President/Owner) there and a number of employees monitoring the room for any technical issues. There were few that I saw and no major ones that I heard of at the exam.

First to say PCs suck

Is exam software even necessary? Especially given the tremendous inconvenience to so many students?

Aren't most law schools on the honor code? Many law professors allow open-book, open-notes exams. I have one prof who has instituted an open-everything exam.

If the worry is using the internet and/or messaging to have someone outside the room writing answers, wouldn't increased proctoring and/or modification of wireless access solve the problem?

I think it is fine that law schools require PCs for Examsoft purposes, but the original complainer at American said that he was told it would be fine to have a Mac for exams. That was apparently not true, and they should accommodate any Mac user who was told that their computer (which they probably bought in reliance on this statement) will be fine.

Basically, that is fine for schools to screw over the Mac people, but be up front about it. Don't pretend you're Mac-friendly.

Why would anyone be studying law at the University of Kentucky? Is that even a law school? Tier 4? I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you are not going to T-14, you might as well be choosing a different career b/c you sure ain't becoming a lawyer...

i love this email from the dean:

As we considered whether to adopt the Exam Soft software, we considered how we might reduce the impact for Mac users. We are working with library staff to find additional laptops to be borrowed
by students. We are also considering the use of an overflow exam room with personal computers for students who need to borrow computers.
Making these changes will involve significant commitments of time by the IT staff.

contrast that with the dean's letter from WCL. appalling!

he's factually incorrect. extegrity's exam4 software is compatible on ALL macs.

They could, you know, trust their students not to cheat and just let them use Word... That's what we do, and it would be amazing to me if anybody found a way to use their laptop in a prohibited way - our exams are way too challenging to leave time for that.

This debate is at least several years old (on lawschooldiscussion.org and autoadmit among others), and is over in many schools. I don't understand why American and Kentucky are just getting to it. Stanford permits students to take exams with Macs, for example, and has for several years. I don't remember the software but it wasn't proprietary. Is there some privileges and immunities barrier to east-of-the-Mississippi law schools doing the same thing?

Where is the dean's letter from WCL? Can someone post a link?

The only people at my TTT that use Macs are look at me whores that don't even know what they have. The correlation between Mac users and people that still wear Greek homecoming dance T-shirts is almost 1:1.

Doesn't your law school trust you not to cheat? We did our exams on our own software (Word...) and then printed them and turned them in... No honor codes out there?

Exam 4 (Extegrity) is compatible with all macs and it has been used at my school for three years now. The administration reiterates every exam season that it has never lost an exam using the software.

not to mention the fact that if you're cheating on your torts exam, you have bigger problems than secure software can solve.

3:51 is right. i've never even met a lawyer who didn't go to a T-14. oh wait, that's not true at all.

Just. Let. Students. Use. Word.

WTF is the problem?

I think the problem with allowing students to use Word isn't just about students using notes or other sources saved on their computers or messaging with others. It also has to do with students being able to save answers on their notebook. UK's professors often offer students an alternative exam date, and there exists the potential that those students who take the exam later may find out the exact questions asked. But, even beyond these students, many professors don't want exam questions floated around to next year's students. Not all professors make old exams public.

This is really not much of an issue and is becoming less of an issue every day. Every Mac sold in the last year and most sold in the last three will run ALL of these testing software just fine.

Mac's run windows just fine. Windows runs all of these pieces of software just fine. Load windows on your mac and your just fine. It is OSX that they are not compatible with, not the mac.

Extegrity is a great name for a company. It's the opposite of Integrity!

To add to 4:37.... a lot of exams lend themselves to canned answers. Think of a civ pro exam... you could pretty mucxh write your entire exam beforehand, save it on your hard drive, and then just fill in a few blanks on test day and turn it in. If you are going to use a computer, you need something to lock up the system and prevent that kind of access.

well, i sure hope they come out with some sort of anti-cheating, ethics-ensuring software for us practicing attorneys.

Or you just {{gasp}} trust the students not to do that!

Newsflash: Although knowing the material is important, the most important thing on most law school exams is to spot the issues and give some sort of intelligent analysis.

fyi mac users, boot camp lets you install windows on your mac, thus turning your mac into a pc

cost of boot camp: free
cost of windows: who cares, it's much less then the examsoft download for macs
value of time saved not complaining: probably a 2L job.

don't have a macbook? it's probably time to upgrade.

Texas uses Extegrity. I would think that would make it good enough for Kentucky.

Extegrity works fine at my school.

4:44 - if professors can't trust students to know how to take exams using a pen and paper, I don't blame them for not trusting them to be honest about their test taking.

Extegrity (Exam4) is cool - the program is fine. The company does suck though. They wouldn't "permit" the prog to install on Vista for the last distribution. Allegedly, it would have functioned just fine, but the developers weren't "sure enough."

How about you just make sure it's ready for the only time of year your company has something to do? Maybe hire someone to get a new release ready, instead of being worthless? Losers.

Professors can trust students to know how to take exams using a pen and paper. There is just no need to make them do so. But even if, for some ridiculously made-up reason, they couldn't trust the students to know how to write their exams, it still wouldn't matter. One is trusting their ability, and the other is trusting their integrity. Two completely unrelated things. Wow, the morons are out today!

To confirm that UT(exas) uses extegrity. I never had a problem with it.

Examsoft works just fine on Intel Macs that can dual boot Windows. Anyone with a Mac older than that needs a new computer anyways.

Anyone else noticing that the better the school is, the more likely they are to trust students and just use Word?

my school supports exam soft on macs that run boot camp. it works well but takes a little bit more effort for the students that want to use macs. we have to certify our macs with the tech support people and they run a practice test to make sure it works.

i have a mac but i use my pc for exams but thats only because i am too lazy to go through all the hoops for using my mac. that and i am cool enough to have two computers.

Can anyone post some info about whether their school permits exams on Word? In my school (top 30), it really varies by course....with take home exams, you obviously can use Word, and you are bound by the honor code.

However, for in-class exams, it's examsoft.

Anybody else care to chime in?

USC fucks over Mac users in the same way.

Has anyone who didn't go to Georgetown ever used the term T-14? Get the f*ck over it. You're not in the top ten. It's okay. You'll survive. When in the history of man has anyone bothered to talk about the top fourteen of anything?

Don't really understand why special software is necessary. Neither does my school (T14).

There is a way to use Exam Soft on macs, though I believe you have to buy some expensive software or undertake some illegal downloading in order to accomplish this. My school (UGA) is not friendly to Mac users, it seems like most of them figure out a way to make it work.
It would be much more appreciated if they just used better software though.

6:20 - Virginia uses all Word. At the end of the exam you just upload it to the school's server. You're also required to save a copy on your hard drive. If something goes wrong with the uploaded copy, then they will just have you print a copy from your computer. You're obviously expected not to work on it after the exam is done.

There is a way to use Exam Soft on macs, though I believe you have to buy some expensive software or undertake some illegal downloading in order to accomplish this. My school (UGA) is not friendly to Mac users, though it seems most students with Macs figure out a way to make it work on their computers.
It would be much more appreciated if they just used different software and not force the hassle though.

when i was at Rutgers, unless the prof mandated pen and paper, they let you use Word to write your exam. you could download/upload it electronically in a lot of courses, but some profs passed out paper exams and you had to print your answers out.

3:51 --

You are a moron.

I am a UK grad and I make more money than you while working as a lawyer.

Billy,

You should throw up a link to the authoritative source for this subject:

http://www.maclawstudents.com/blog/law-school-exam-software/#schools

GW to examsoft!

fucking extegrity...
actually i haven't had any problems with extegrity (knock on wood). just the stability of the damn wifi network.

Penn uses ExamSoft because JoePa mandated going with the legacy power computing system. He doesn't want any frills :)

3:42:

I go to UMich, we have Electronic Blue Book, it does not work on macs.

That being said...

Law students get no advantage from using a PC... all new macs can run boot camp.

I bench 285. It used to be 340 when I was on steroids.

JUST LET US FUCKING TYPE OUR EXAMS IN WORD YOU NEUROTIC DOUCHEBAGS!

Also, Macs to Bootcamp!

Emory uses SecureExam. To my surprise, they make it for Mac AND it actually works. Knock on wood.

Also, Mac adoption rates are much higher among law students (at least at Emory) than in the general population (as Apple's quarterly market share reports would indicate). As an Apple zealot, I occasionally count the number of Macs in use in each class. I would estimate that between 10 and 20% have Macs. Cf. Apple's 3 to 6% share of the personal computer market.

6:35 - It wasn't that hard to figure out. As for the expensive/illegal question, that only depends on how you want to get Windows.

Vanderbilt uses extegrity (name? sp?); it works great on my mac.

Well I got UC Davis and they will give you free Microsoft Office Suite, so when you download FREE Bootcamp, and then load up the Microsoft Suite you can use ExamSoft for free... works pretty well and I can still use my Mac problem free.

I find it funny how much middle-school-sounding bickering and "my dad can beat up your dad" retorts are going on between a bunch of law students.

Duke Law had big problems with Mac users and exam software a few years back - the administration was less than helpful.

Tennessee uses extegrity with no problems. But since we are only T2 most of us choose to use crayons instead.

William and Mary allows you to use Word. You upload your answer to the school server, then have 1 hour to print off a hard copy from the library or home. Honor codes make life much easier.

At UVA there's no exam software; they just use Word.

What is the matter with you people??? Just handwrite the damn exams. You don't need a computer. I didn't take one to class every day (GASP!) ... I wrote my notes by hand (YOU DID WHAT?!?) And I graduated (NO WAY!!) and passed the bar exam. I was near the top of the class. Get a life morons and WRITE YOUR DAMN EXAMS BY HAND!

10:19- I don't know why someone would ever want to write an exam by hand anymore. Typing is a huge advantage. It's faster. You can go back and insert ideas after the fact. Lastly, you don't have to worry about poor handwriting and legibility.

12:09 -- I think that writing makes everything more clear. Your professor will not penalize you for hand writing the exam. If you write neatly and skip lines, there is no problem reading the exam. Plus, you don't have to worry about all this crap about the computer messing up, etc. That is a major reason why I wrote them by hand. IMO, if you use a computer, then suffer the consequences if it screws up. No one feels sorry for the guy whose pen runs out of ink. But what did he do? He brought another pen.

Boston University uses examsoft as well. They've been trying to make it compatible with Macs for a while with no luck. I think it's a necessary evil as the majority of professors will actually penalize students with poor handwriting. I had to write my Civ Pro exam last year after my PC crashed right before the final started, and that class turned out to be my worst grade.