Yeahhh BOYYYY!

Second, bitches!

I heard about one associate who would have been the first poster to a Thanksgiving day posting on Above the Law, but was too busy working on an important time-sensitive case on Thanksgiving and the weekend. The associate later found out that the partner learned on Wednesday that the TRO was off-calendar, but the partner neglected to tell the associate -- because the partner was preoccupied with getting out of the office for his own Thanksgiving plans.

"but the partner neglected to tell the associate"

No jury in the country would convict you. Justifiable partnercide.

Fifth assholes!

I remember the thanksgiving that I watched 2girls1cup.com

What the hell is the big deal about Thanksgiving anyways? My family always plans to get together in July. We exchange presents in August. People who think they're entitled to special treatment on the holidays are stupid.

Also, now I understand why so many people make double posts. It took a full 30 seconds for my comment to appear. Lat, this is your fault. This blog sucks.

02:53...you're a disgusting, sick mofo and need some serious help.

Are you kidding me, you are all disgusting!

You all asked for it. You should have known not to trust some random link.

Speaking of 2girls1cup.com, I'm surprised (although pleased) that no one has brought obscenity charges against them.

Also, 12th bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about the Friday after Thanksgiving when LEWW didn't post because too many anti-elitist underachievers complained that LEWW was "elitist"?

I received an assignment via email yesterday. No due date was specified, so I ended up spending 1.5 doing it before dinner yesterday. Pretty lame.

4:08, it was pretty lame of you to do the assignment yesterday.

4:23 still in law school huh?

Early last week I was assigned to draft a complaint to be ready by the day before Thanksgiving so we wouldn't have to deal with holiday work (SOL runs out on Monday). The next day the partner canceled the job because he thought the client had reached an agreement negating the need for the complaint. All was well until this Tuesday, when the client wrote us asking us to restart work, just in case the agreement fell through.

So here I am, and will be, all weekend.

Although at this moment I obviously am taking a little time off to web surf... but whatever.

4:55 - destined to get sh*t on throughout your firm career, huh? Perhaps you should have emailed back and proposed getting the assignment done by Monday, or Friday afternoon at best. No reason why an associate, not given a deadline, can't propose his own reasonable deadline (or at least asking for a deadline).

4:55 - lol, no, I'm a 2nd year attorney at a biglaw firm. At some point you just have to draw boundaries. There was no due date and it was on Thanksgiving.

My girlfriend neglected to mention that her parents are vegetarians, despite our plans to eat thanksgiving dinner at their house...Yesterday I ate my first and last tofu turkey. Oh the humanity.

I got a call on Wednesday night to let me know I needed to be in ATL at 9AM this morning. I made the six-hour drive after having a nice lunch on Thursday.

A client is visiting family for the holiday, but leaving the country Saturday. He won't be back until the day before his deposition. There were a number of things that needed to be addressed with the client, and he needed to be prepped for the deposition.

It's actually been a rather enjoyable trip. I packed up several boxes from the case, booked a nice hotel room, and spent the morning with one of my favorite clients. I've spent the afternoon prepping additional points for deposing the other side, some supplemental discovery, and will be meeting up with friends later this evening. While everyone else is going to be playing catch-up next week, I'm already ahead on my hours.

I actually enjoy working holidays and weekends. I get much more done when I'm not dealing with normal office interruptions. Given my preference, I'd take Mondays or Wednesdays off -- leave a large stack of stuff for the office staff the day before and then run errands (when places are actually open) or just sleep late and then hit the gym.

I know my feelings would change if I had a family waiting on me to come home each night, but right now, I'm finding that I quite enjoy having an incredible amount of flexibility.

I remember the thanksgiving that I filmed 2girls1cup... originally it was going to be called "www.FunWithPoo.com", but I thought that might confuse kids into thinking it was a children's cartoon about a loveable bear

At my firm, a partner brought together the litigation "team" on the wednesday of thanksgiving week and took orders for turkey day on thursday...."this is your new family" was her cheery little delivery of the news we all needed to stay all day on t-giving.

on the day itself, we got a half-hour break to wolf down boston market take out, then back to prepping the case.....this didn't end till spring.

5:34 : It takes you a whole weekend to draft a complaint? Jesus!
You must be a first year. This is why first years' time get written off...no client that has a clue would pay for 3 days of drafting a complaint!

7:23 You are obviously an idiot. Go f**k yourself.

Happy holidays.

mee--we are all shit on my friend. its just a matter of degree. i will end up billing less than 2000 this year, so i guess i am not shit on that much.

and fyi - when a partner sends you an assignment with no due date-that means asap. of course i can say screw you ill do it by monday. but the same could be said about any assignment.

the fucked up part is getting that assignment on thanksgiving in the first place.

get it?

Said associate might have displayed the common sense to email said partner and ask for a due date, explaining that said associate was with family having Thanksgiving dinner, and pointing out that said associate would be happy to complete the assignment immediately if necessary. Partners look for junior associates to be willing to work, but also to display some basic common sense. It is your own fault that you worked on Thanksgiving...you will clearly go far in this profession, best of luck! Next time, think just a little before you jump.

7:42 do you honestly think i was at dinner with a laptop doing the assignment? seems like it is you that needs some common sense.

I had a few hours to kill during the afternoon so i cranked it out. could i have done it friday, sat or sunday without negative consequence? sure. but i would have had to do it anyways.

dont be so obtuse

4:08 wrote "I received an assignment via email yesterday. No due date was specified, so I ended up spending 1.5 doing it before dinner yesterday. Pretty lame."

Given your response to 7:42 at 7:48, I'm not sure why you posted at all. As 7:42 points out, and you now admit, you chose to work on Thanksgiving. Given that, what are you complaining about?

Thank you 7:53. My point exactly!

You are all ridiculously overpaid. The Holiday is officially over, so, GET BACK TO BILLING!!!

It'd be nice to see a thread discussing if indeed "special bonuses" were paid "lock-step" at the biglaw firms to all associates or whether this new bonus scheme was tied to some sort of merit or hours requirement? Hey biglaw folks-did you all get the bonus or what, aspiring biglaw associates are dying to know!

Patent prosecution: seems every idiot has an Amendment due on Friday after Thanksgiving and sends instructions on Thanksgiving Thursday. Since the PTO is open on Friday, I have to pay for the extension. Last year, it cost me about $400 and this year it will be in excess of a $1000.

Hey Partner's 2 cents -

You're gay and so is your boyfriend. Get lost clown.

Hey Partner's 2 cents -

You're gay and so is your boyfriend. Get lost clown.

3:22 - HA HA, dumbass. You're the one that clicked on a random link.

Partner's 2 cents:

Pot, meet kettle.

My bad story: after everyone had already left the office on Wednesday we got a motion from opposing counsel to which we need to get a response ready by early next week. Opposing counsel sucks.

When you are earning 160K+Bonus, you are our bitches which means that you will work whenever we want you to work. Its really that simple. Already this week 2 perfectly good days have been wasted, so BITCHES, GET THE FUCK BACK TO WORK.

Give me a break David. Law firms have these days off. It's us law students who have it rough. Exams are coming up. Too many law schools, not enough jobs. We're mostly screwed but not in a good way.

i can has vaykayshun?

Lat, how about you out those scumbag opposing counsel's (or at least their firms) who schedule things around holidays? Maybe the public embarassment would prevent people from doing it and would make our profession a little more civil!

8:10 - From what I can tell the "special" bonuses were pretty much lockstep, although firms looked for excuses where they could find them to screw over associates.

For example, Skadden had an hours requirement for the special bonus, higher than the 1600 hour requirement for the regular bonus. It was still low, something like 1800 or 1900, but in a firm as large as Skadden, at least a couple dozen associates were screwed out of the special bonus.

1:23, are you completely out of your mind? If you bill 1800 or 1900, you are not screwed out of the special bonus because obviously you shouldn't be getting a bonus (special or otherwise) in the first place. By contrast, I would be all in favor of firms giving extra high bonuses for associates who bill 2,500 or more, and even more for associates who bill over 2,800.

I agree with 11:36.
Law students have exams coming up, which means they have no definite deadlines and can only speculate if they studied enough - especially first years.
I'd much rather have been given an assignment, cranked it out and prepared to watch some football this evening.
Now I'm sitting in the library struggling to focus because I know that UVA-VT is at half, UT-UK just kicked off, and it's the best college football weekend all year.
As far as Thanksgivign horror stories go, I'd say being a 1L comes in near the top.

11:36 and 1:33 are hilarious. Assuming you're at schools as good as mine, I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat. As law students, you live a charmed life, period. Law school -- any school -- is a hundred times better than real life. This is why some people become professional students.

Just wait until you've been doing this two years like I have. You'll wish you were back in school.

i dunno about that, i'm taking money and misery over the misery of law school.

tubgirl to 190!

I'm a 1L, took two days off, now I'm going to "study" in the park while my puppy hits on girls for me. Just saying, it's only as stressful as you make it.

Day before Thanksgiving, I'm about to leave the office for a 4 hour drive to my family's house for T-day dinner. Partner catches me right as I am going into the elevator- guy tells me I have to do 300 pushups before I can leave. Can you believe that?!?! To say the least, I knocked out 250 but couldn't finish the remaining 50. I'm still at the office now, but hoping I can finish by Sunday morning.

sure 1L, until you get totally average grades at the T50 school you're at and end up with no job or shitty offers and then wish you'd have not "studied in the park" with the puppy, and had sucked it up and done some work. Of course, if you're at a HYS, lay back and enjoy that park, you'll be juuuust fine.

the problem is that as an associate, at least in lit, you know that 90% of your work ends up in the trash or isn't as urgent as they make it out to be. a whole lot of "just in case" bs. i've done emergency doc reviews and emergency TROs over holiday weekends that went nowhere. so after learning the game a bit, i'm especially protective of holiday weekends. happy thanksgiving everyone.

Thanksgiving morning at my firm is the annual "Turkey Hunt," where all the associates dress up like turkeys and run through a forest while the partners shoot at them with pellet guns.

Associates. The least dangerous game?

have been working all day every day since some time in mid october.

What's more horrifying than working during Thanksgiving is the thought of being unemployed next Thanksgiving with six-figures of student loan debt.

7:23 is right...a complaint, even a complicated one, cannot take 3 days to draft.

1:41- If you are at one of the 4 schools ranked higher than mine, you make a good point. For some reason, I doubt it. In any case, I too am a 3L and since I'll be leaving a mark I intend to work hard. Keep your feet up though, brag about what school you went to, and don't forget to have a great dinner-party explanation for why you got fired from you future job because your product was shit.

yes I am sure in the whole history of the world a complaint has never taken three days to draft under any circumstances, and in fact it is utterly impossible that it would take so long, unless you are a really, really bad lawyer, which of course I am not

nyc to 210!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh man!

Hey, 5:55, do you really believe that you get judged based on your "work product"? Good luck with that. You will be greatly disappointed when you expect your partner to give you an "A". There are no "rookie of the year" awards for first year attorneys.

5:55 - Sorry to say, but you're going to be surprised how arbitrary biglaw can be.

You got into a good law school because you were at the top of your undergrad class and scored at the top of the LSAT curve.

You got into a top firm because you did well in a law school that was difficult to get in to.

But guess what. You're now working exclusively with people who did just what you did. You are essentially average, and working only with people who work very hard and are very smart. Your hard work will not set you apart. Your intelligence will not set you apart.

Instead, you will either make partner because you got lucky and did work for the right people on the right deals/cases at the right times. Or you will get fired because you worked for the wrong people on the wrong deals/cases at the wrong times.

Also, as long as you hit 2000 hours, any additional hour only adds to your misery, and adds to the chances that you'll f*** up.

May as well do your 2000 hours, collect your paychecks, and start charting exit opportunities after about six months. Doing anything else will do about jacksht for you.

here here 853

lemonparty, phonetrace, tubgirl, 2girls1cup, cleangirls, meatspin... this is what i am thankful for

also thankful for FUPAs

1:23:
"For example, Skadden had an hours requirement for the special bonus, higher than the 1600 hour requirement for the regular bonus. It was still low, something like 1800 or 1900, but in a firm as large as Skadden, at least a couple dozen associates were screwed out of the special bonus."

I'm at Skadden, and that's news to me.

1:33

By the time you are a 3L, you will realize that you can stay home and watch football.

5:55 You are in for a big, disappointing surprise in the workplace. Enjoy your ego driven ride while it lasts, my friend. What a jerk. . .

apparently, if you like holiday weekends, litigation is not the way to go. this thread is incredibly depressing.

i support creating a blacklist of firms that go out of their way to screw opposing counsel. but i guess no one wants to out a potential future employer.

What . . . No Goatse?

You've been outLASTED!!!

3:56 - You are a fucking loser, and are alone.

Heed 8:53's wisdom.

10:14, that's the way it's supposed to work -- unless you have to leave dinner to get home to edit a Law Review article that's due right before finals. But I suppose that being on LR at my mid-ranked school is what helped me get a job at biglaw. So I suppose I'll suck it up.

So let's say you're at a top 15 law school w/ a biglaw job lined up....how much do your grades matter beyond this point? do you have to maintain your performance at the same level? I only ask cuz i'm doing a dual degree w/ 2 more classes than my peers and i know sth's gotta give...how much room do i have??

thanks.

Hey, Curious 2L -- have you ever noticed that big law firms don't make 45 partners a year?

Keep the grades up all the way. You can get requests for your transcript 15 years out -- or more. It's idiotic, but it's a world we never made.

11:57 - short of flunking out or plaigarism, if you've got a gig lined up, you're fine. the only reason to keep trying is to graduate with that magna or summa (which will be handy if you want to switch firms, which you probably will).

Anonyguy,

Only Gibson checks for grades 15 years out.

Grades don't mean much if you aren't a great attorney.

3:39,

It isn't HYS vs. top 50.

It is HYS vs. top 10 vs. 11-14 vs. top 50 (depending upon location.

9:52 Skadden did raise the hours req for special bonus, and it was all or nothing. Regular year end bonus is a 1600 req (or, rumored this year to be a 1400 req) for full bonus, and over 1200 for half bonus. The special hours req was 1800 or maybe 1900 hours, and below it people got nothing. I know at least 4 people at Skadden that did not get the special bonus last week.

Maybe it should be an hours req for an extra bonus. Although, this does not seem to account fairly for the years folks are very busy, as there seems to be no extra bonus for over 2500. In the end the higher hours req screws people, and I bet will add to attrition for those who didn't hit it, especially in slow practive areas. Slow practice groups beware?!?

Thanks 6:46

6:46,

What period does Skadden count hours based on? 1/1 to 12/31 (with projections as necessary)? Anniversary of start date?

7:39 Don't know what the year is counted as, I think Jan-December with projections, but am unsure. Anyone else want to jump in here?

3:17: I think that the loser is more likely the guy who complains about LEWW on the ground that it is so "elitist" that it makes him feel bad about his achievements (or lack thereof).

As for being alone, I am sure there are lots of LEWW fans, though most have better things to do than spam the comments like the LEWW haters.

Did all firms paying special bonus have higher hours reqs, or was it only Skadden? Lat, can we please get a new thread to discuss who did or did not get screwed on the special bonuses? Were these special bonuses just smoke and mirrors, and not really paid out?

Confirmed that Skadden raised hours req for special. Anyplace else?

Thanksgiving horror story: expecting a $50,000 special bonus the day before Thanksgiving and getting: a big ZERO. Spending Thanksgiving weekend dusting of the resume.

I had almost blanked LEWW out of my mind. I didn't realize the column had fans. Learn something new every day.

Lat,

I'm curious about this "do grades really matter" thing. If you have a job nailed down after law school and you worked there several years, will firms after that really look at your transcript? Can we do a thread on this?

8:32,

If billing 1800 hours to get a special bonus is "screwed," sign me up. Shitty local or regional firms that pay 2/3 of Skadden's salary have min reqs of 1900 or 2000.

You all want to dream of 2girls1cup.com

9:52 It is only screwed as it's not the usual Skadden req and associates were not told the req was raised for the special bonus, and it is screwed more so if other competitor firms did not raise the hours req, in which case it's a way out of paying a goos number of associates for Skadden. Shitty firms can and do pay less, however they aren't Skadden's competition so have no place in the conversation.

2L,

Don't make your plans based on having a job nailed down. Put the absolute maximum amount of effort into success at school.

I planned to stay at my father-in-law's firm following graduation. I worked there full time and didn't focus on my studies. As a result, I have a mediocre B- GPA at a T4 school. I chose the school because it was the only one located near the office. I caught my wife having an affair the morning second-semester 2L exams began, and was divorced by the end of the summer.

All the work experience in the world doesn't help one overcome poor grades. I did quite a bit of substantive federal litigation work, have represented approximately 100 kids as their youth court defense counsel or guardian ad litem, and have written and spoken on topics related to my desired practice area for another school's law journal. I did everything possible to improve my grades, took undergraduate courses so that I could qualify for the patent bar, and worked hard to market myself to IP firms of all sizes. I'm admitted in my home state, soon will be in DC, have been approved and will sit for the patent bar in a week, and will sit for the February New York bar.

Interest from firms has been minimal, at best. I'm currently working at a small firm doing commercial litigation.

My story isn't unique. I have at least two friends who clerked at firms, were extended offers, and then found during their third year that the jobs weren't there. One should have expected same because of the market conditions for his practice area (real estate in a market that was tanking early) but the other found that the firm was breaking up. The first one hadn't done well in school and is still job searching. The second poured an insane amount of time into school, had great grades, and managed to land a last-minute clerkship with a federal judge.

2L
Grades matter. Enough said.

I second 2L's request for a thread on "do 2L grades really matter."

I spent thanksgiving hearing rumors of a raise in Atlanta

If you think grades matter after your first three or four years of practice, you're out of your mind.

Having a book of business and being able to deliver to the client that matters. If you think otherwise, frame your transcript and put it on your wall. In fact, nail it to your wall, because you'll be in that little associates office for a very long time.

just got back from work tonight. yay. apparently, we just really had to get some stuff drafted.

didn't work on t-day, but the night before and the days after. big law pays big money, and maybe that's the only way we can "survive" - but it makes you wonder whether it's worth it all the time. how much is my life really worth? i don't know the answer, but they do have an insurance policy for me.

This whole grades thing really has me wondering what types of nerds you are. Top GPA in my class is some girl that is nearing "optimal birthing years" think she will get an offer? Law is a business and like any business it is who you know. I've never known someone to put their whole life down on a piece of paper (resume) and had someone go, "This guy is perfect, top of everything since conception, we obviously need to hire this guy his transcripts prove he is a afraid of daylight and interacting with society." I really can't think of another profession where people brag about how nerdy they are/were and in doing so admit they never had sex. Law students, what is your business plan??? Are you going to let someone else tell you how much you can make or are you going to take it?

Grades do matter, but not everywhere. For places where it matters, I've found that it's come either in the form of a hard grade cutoff or a grade policy (no C-or-below-grades). It's my understanding that this is the case for more junior associates, however.

I'm sure some places ask partners for their transcripts after years of demonstrated success, but who the hell would subject themselves to that?

4:43,

There is no inverse correlation between academic success and getting laid, your insinuations to the contrary notwithstanding. If anything, the opposite is true, as academic success frequently begets money, which in turn begets booty.

Oh, and if a firm refuses to hire the girl you mentioned on the ground that she is within "optimal birthing years," she can sue them for employment discrimination under Title VII. But I guess it's really nerdy for us to know that...

The firms that ask lateral partners for their transcripts probably do it as part of their diligence. Though I think Gibson might do it on principal. It's not going to torpedo anyone unless they're lying about something.

823 is a virgin

8:23 is not a virgin if you count molesting little boys as "scoring."

I third, fourth and fifth the request for a thread on people's experiences lateraling and whether grades matter.

phonetrace = meatspin

Seriously, check them out.

9:59

wait, are you not supposed to count that...

what about 3L grades? I don't feel like studying for my TTT exams

I lateraled early in my second year and was (extremely surprised to be) asked for my transcript and asked about my grades in a couple of interviews.

In retrospect I guess I should have expected it. My impression is that it matters less and less the longer you've been working. When you've only been at a job for a year, especially as a first-year associate, they don't have much else to go on.

sixth request for 'do grades matter' thread. in particular, will it matter to getting an offer after the summer?

seventh request...want to know if I didn't screw myself by enjoying Thanksgiving weekend with my family

you think grades matter after your first three or four years of practice, you're out of your mind. Having a book of business and being able to deliver to the client that matters.
__________________________________

This matters at small-midsize firms, or at the equity partner level at big firms. If you work in Biglaw as anything below partner or senior counsel with demonstrated experience running your own deals, they will look at your grades. They will matter less as time goes on, but they will still look at them.

10:58: Your firm will ask for you to submit your transcript over summer, so don't tank it yet.

11:30: True, but I imagine a firm would use grades as a reason to not extend an offer only as a pretext. I had a couple of very unimpressive grades during my second year and my firm still extended an offer to me.

11:24:

You are making stuff up: " or at the equity partner level at big firms"

So, associate #1 is a better attorney than associate #2, but associate #2 did better in Crim Pro. The firm will make associate #2 equity partner?

11:59--

Please learn to read.

Don't be so defensive.

Grades definitely matter, even though I think it is a stupid policy. I have applied to several firms as a mid-level lateral, and have been told that my ranking was not high enough to warrant an interview. While my ranking puts me near the top third in my class, most large firms have a grade cut-off that continues even after your first couple of years in practice.

2L and 3L grades matter a lot less, but the effort required to do well in those classes is a lot less too. With other students coasting along, you can get an A a lot more easily than when you were a 1L (and had to master the tiny details to get an A). So I think it pays to take the effort level up one notch.

Grades matter!

I completed a 2-year federal court clerkship with the chief judge of the district, litigated at a small firm in Texas for a year, and wrote on to Law Review where I received numerous awards. My references, including the federal judge and one of the "500 Leading Lawyers in America," are excellent. My grades are average. I just moved to D.C., and my job search over the last 5 months here has been as unsuccessful as one could imagine. One out of every 3 or 4 jobs I apply for requires a transcript. Recruiters won't help me because I'm not ranked No. 1 through 10 at the T4 law school I went to (so law schools matter too).

I wish I had studied more. Don't make the same mistake, law school nerds.

As someone who spent several years as an attorney recruiter who, I am sure, talked with many of you, I can assure the first question any firm you are hoping to lateral to will is going to be the same across the board......."where'd they go? how'd they do?" Recruiters will not even consider sending your resume without a transcript because that is the baseline for getting in the door. 3.5 1L year? awesome, 2.5 the next two? good luck. Grades are very relevant in lateral associate hiring.

LATER

Do grades matter? What else are we going to go on? Grooming? Your sparkling personalities? Do you really want to work with a bunch of coworkers who were lazy students? Grades only don't matter to the extent that you have something else stellar going for you.

You can ask: "do grades matter if I spent three decades as a surgeon/U.S. Senator/ television personality" or some variant thereof. Otherwise? Yes, grades matter.