What’s Going on at Emory Law School?
Finding a decent legal job is hard enough as it is. Having a career services office that’s in complete disarray doesn’t help. From a tipster:
Emory Law’s Career Services Office has imploded. The latest departure was the Dean of Career Services, Dean Laurie Hartman, last month. She left under mysterious circumstances….Students are asking lots of questions. They organized a facebook group, asking for an explanation, or an explanation for “if you can’t tell us what is going on, can you tell us why you can’t tell us what is going on?” Many law students went to their university paper, the Emory Wheel.
More after the jump.
The Emory Wheel did end up doing a story:
Last week, the law school community was informed that the former dean of career services would be leaving, effective immediately. The news came several weeks after an announcement that she would be taking an extended leave of absence.Michael Phillips — a colleague of mine, and an active, respected member of the law school — thought that the student body deserved some additional information behind her departure. His was a simple request: Please tell us what happened, or please tell us why you can’t….
There is another element to this story that is also troubling. Sometime last Wednesday, Katherine Brokaw, the law school dean of student affairs, asked Phillips to come to her office and remove his cell phone from his pocket, supposedly because he might use it to record the conversation. He was then asked to take down a Facebook page he had started in support of his cause to find out more information about the dean’s departure. More alarmingly, he was told he could be sued by the former dean if he failed to do so.
I’ve spoken to Dean Brokaw about the incident. She maintains that her concerns about Phillips’ cell phone and the legality of the site were legitimate and in good faith.
But the episode reeks of a hostility and a level of suspicion that have no place in an academic institution of any caliber, let alone in a law school that, in its own Professional Conduct Code, strongly emphasizes the values of civility and a shared sense of community.
Another Emory source outlined the questions raised in the Facebook group:
1 Who initiated Dean Hartman’s leave of absence? Why?2 Who initiated Dean Hartman’s permanent departure? Why?
3 What changed between September 27, 2007 (when Dean Hartman’s leave of absence began) and October 23, 2007 (when Dean Hartman’s departure was announced) that led to Dean Hartman’s leave of absence becoming a permanent departure?
4 Did Dean Hartman commit any wrongdoing?
5 Have any students lost career opportunities, been disadvantaged, or suffered harm of any kind because of Dean Hartman’s behavior?
6 If the reasons for Dean Hartman’s departure must remain secret, why must they remain secret?
7 If you cannot answer any of these questions, why?
So what’s the latest state of play? This is what we’re hearing:
Mikey Phillips is headed for a showdown with Emory SBA on Friday. There the SBA will vote on the Bill asking/demanding Emory Law to release as much information as possible the release/firing/forced resignation of the Dean of Career services.That’s only first part of the story, SBA has been conducting an e-mail debate about the bill. Mikey contests that under the SBA Charter, SBA is required to make all debates are public. Most but not all SBA members have not been forth coming with their disclosures. Mike maintains that the e-mails are public and has appeal to Emory Law’s conduct court for a ruling on the e-mails, where he expects to lose. So the plan is to appeal to the university wide conduct court, but the wrinkle there is the “justice” from the law school who sits on that court is a apart of the secret SBA debate….
[B]efore the dean left, two other members of career services has left. One to pursue a music career, and one to head of recruiting for Paul Hastings Atlanta. Immediately after the Dean left, the person who left for Paul Hastings, just this past summer, returned to her old position at Emory.
Those are the facts. The rumor is that Career services revolted and went to the dean and turned in an ultimatum stating that the rest of the office was going to quit, if administration did not remove the dean.
My opinion: [I think] the former dean was the most competent person in the office. The decision, however, was to keep a marginally competent staff over one competent person. While this understandable, the large portion of the current 3L population that doesn’t have a job is concerned with her dismissal.
By the way, this isn’t the only weird thing happening at Emory law this year. From near the start of the semester:
Dean Partlett, the dean of Emory law, held the traditional welcome to Emory party at the law school. The dean gave his speech but it went a bit beyond the norm.First he welcomed us on behalf of himself and his wife, then he talked about his dog (an English setter, named Griffey). Dean Partlett when in to a several minute description about how Griffey really wanted to go to Atlanta but was scared because of the whole Michael Vick situation…. Now, this would have been funny, had it not be delivered in a very serious tone, and at such great length.
The speech then went into the truly bizarre. He began to talk about the entering class of 2010. He said that there were originally 500 students that fell to 252. He said that the dean of students and admissions used a process that was similar to the Bataan death march to reduce the class size. He talked for about several minutes about this Bataan death march reduction. Dean Partlett actually invoked the Bataan death march.
This speech has been the talk of the school. No one knows what it was he was talking about…. It was just bizarre.
(We contacted the dean for comment — about the weird welcome speech, not about the career services implosion — but never heard back from him.)
Update: From an Emory alum:
[F]rankly, the story you just posted comes as no surprise whatsoever. For a moderately ranked school, affiliated with a fairly prestigious undergraduate institution, the Emory Law School administration was (and apparently continues to be) a joke.When I went there (I graduated in 2001), the school decided to redecorate the inside of the law school with the paintings of a local homeless man that resembled the drawings of elementary school kids. I think his drawings may have been celebrated by the art community, but they certainly were not law school appropriate. Then they added to the ambiance by procuring wooden patio furniture in the main common area. It was not a big deal, but the apparent lack of judgment did not inspire confidence.
Close-Mouthed Deans Dissuade Open Inquiry [Emory Wheel]
Officials Appointed to Fill Key Career Services Roles [Emory Wheel]




Comments
Comments hidden for your protection. Show them anyway!
first
First. Thank you.
First. Thank you.
WTF, what a paranoid woman. I'm glad I didn't go to emory law
WTF, what a paranoid woman. I'm glad I didn't go to emory law
what a rancid TTT
Who cares? Emory is just an overpriced regional school. Transfer while you can.
WTF, what a paranoid woman. I'm glad I didn't go to emory law
Emory: the Ave Maria of the South?
WTF, what a paranoid woman. I'm glad I didn't go to emory law
Wow, this is a terrible situation. The administration should start acting like adults and not petulant children trying to game the University's political system and abuse its power. This is the last thing people at Emory need. Emory isn't a national school, and jokes like this can't improve its rep.
Also, if I was Mr. Phillips, I would have told the administration to kiss my ass if they asked me to dismantle a perfectly legitimate and legal Facebook group.
Emory Law = killself yesterday
If these email excerpts are indicative of the writing skills of Emory law students, maybe "the large portion of the current 3L population" that hasn't found itself jobs should worry more about trying to effectively use the English language.
And maybe this dean left because trying to find Emory 3Ls jobs was just too much to ask.
Between this and Adam Key at Regent, Facebook is becoming a thorn in the side of law school deans.
ONLY 123 VOTES AWAY!!!!!
This proves that USNews has overrated Emory. It should fall back to its proper place in the mid-30's soon.
Somebody should start a facebook group petition for Phillips to sue Katherine Brokaw
NY to 190!!!
GO AU WCL !!!!!
GO AU WCL !!!!!
Is this Dean Brokaw woman as crazy of a bitch as she sounds?
Sued by the former dean for what?
I'd love it if our dean of student affairs made a specious legal threat to me. I'd tell the dean to open up a fat can of STFU.
As a matter of clarification, the Emory Wheel is largely written by undergrads; Laurie Hartman is one of the worst deans of career services to come through ELS...she should've been canned a long time ago. I don't think she's the first one they fired- didn't one get canned for alcoholism and drinking on the job?
Google her name. Like most law professors she is a frustrated biglaw wannabe.
that kind of intimidation by dean brokaw is really, really inappropriate. She should be fired.
Topic: Crappiest Law School. Discuss.
As a 1L I saw many ugly scenes with deans, Hartman and Brokaw among them. These soviet bureaucrats treat the students like they are high schoolers. At first I was appalled, but then I realized that the servility of the majority of the Emory Law community, and the hideous careerism of its students, warranted such treatment.
Emory Law? LOL
wait...Emory has a law school?? Said it before, and I'll say it again, if you are going to a law school outside T14, you are not really becoming a lawyer...
Under 100 VOTES AWAY!!!!!
EVERYONE, VOTE NOW!!!!
3:45 - not so subtle GULC trolling - LOLERCOPTER
I never like Atlanta anyways, which is why I never seriously considered Emory Law, but this makes me all the happier I chose not to consider it.
Duke, Vandy, or just go to your state school and practice in-state if you live in the South (which is a completely legitimate thing to do if you're from SC / NC / GA / AL / MS / AR / KY).
/southerner
emory law may suck but that doesn't mean deak brokaw should be an asshole
wait...Emory has a law school?? Said it before, and I'll say it again, if you are going to a law school outside T6, you are not really becoming a lawyer...
Wow. Disappointed 3:30 is absolutely correct. Those email excerpts are riddled with errors. It is frightening to see that law students are sending out such missives without checking for such errors. Perhaps it truly is a TTT.
wait...Emory has a law school?? Said it before, and I'll say it again, if you are going to a law school outside Yale, you are not really becoming a lawyer...
Partlett was probably drunk. He used to keep cases of wine in his office when he was acting dean at Vandy. Pretty fun guy actually.
Emory 3Ls to Unemployment
First!!!
Emory Law Rules!
No need for the Emory Law bashing. It is solid school that turns out very good lawyers.
Brokaw seems to have gone around giving anyone who would listen an interview about how her not making partner was because of her kids, the partners not cooperating, life being unfair. Waaaaahhhhhh!
She was a failure as a lawyer, and now, apparently as a 3rd tier dean at a 10th tier law school.
3:55(3): subtle Wake Forest troll.
Partlett is a buffoon. He is an awful public speaker, has no interaction with students, is not a good teacher, and is not a prolific publisher. Why again is he a Dean? Is it just the Australian accent? Is that really all it takes?
3:49(2)/3:51(2)--
How do you live with yourself?
that's why you always have to carry two cellphones: so that when the dean of a law school tells you to remove your cellphone so that you don't record the conversation, you can immediately begin recording the conversation with the other one!
speaking of emory law, can someone enlighten me as to the staircases in front of the law school. i heard they lead to nowhere. is that true?
What's a TTT?
4:03 amen what planet do people live on?
the staircases lead to the atrium and auditorium
ONLY 55 VOTES AWAY FROM FIRST!!
Vote now and vote often!!
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
That article is terrible, even by student newspaper standards. "[T]he former dean of career services would be leaving"? Blech.
To the misguided few that have posted comments on this list, I wonder if any of you have been to Emory or know an Emory law school alum. You should not bash an entire law school community based on the actions of two deans who serve in low-level administrative roles as far as deans go. As a recent Emory Alum (who is happily employed at a large firm) I know there are a lot of us with fond memories and appreciation for the law school beyond the offices of career services and student affairs (and we have a pretty good command on the English language).
(1) There should be no departures or instability in a career services office during recruiting season, barring some grave personal circumstances. That said, things happen, in which case it's up to the Dean to handle things in the best manner possible.
(2) This Michael Phillips fellow, however valid his initial concerns (and they sound valid) should not have initiated his investigation or campaign via the Internet - on Facebook of places.
(3) IF what Phillips says is true about the meeting with Dean Brokaw, there was clearly a failure on the part of the school administration in its handling of the matter.
(4) The school administration AND the students must wake the hell up and realize that information - especially the kind that one would rather not see bandied about on legal tabloids - is now immediately spread via media such as Above the Law (law firms have come to learn this over the course of this year).
(5) How the Emory administration handles the situation from THIS moment on is crucial (for examples of poorly handled damage control, see Nixon Peabody).
(6) Emory is a fine school, with an excellent faculty. Its top 30-40% does extremely well placing in Atlanta and the south in general. The top 20% has no problem landing biglaw jobs in NY, DC, Chi, Boston, LA or TX, and the next 20% down can eventually land a decent job nationally. It produces its fair share of clerks, federal prosecutors and judges. It is appropriately ranked in US News (now at 22, and should never fall below 25).
Honestly, who gives a rat's ass about some stupid law school political power play? How is this possibly relevant to practicing lawyers? It's not even about which school -- I didn't care about the HLS law review silliness either.
Please return to printing law firm news that most of us can care about instead of the overblown, overdramatized drivel designed to attract AutoAdmit posters still struggling through law school.
In addition to the Southeast, Emory has a pretty strong presence in NY and DC.
And I think the comment that a majority of the 3L class are of yet without jobs may be an overstatement. Either way, Emory is ranked in the low 20s by U.S. News, which means that not everyone in the bottom third of the class who wants a BigLaw job gets one. It's the same for everyone school outside of the top 15 or so schools.
Besides, who has faith in the career services of ANY law school? This is not news. Slow day, Lat.
Don't taze me bro-kaw!
4:01 is an idiot -- by contrast, 3:52 is probably right. Dean Partlett was a blackacre legend during my Vandy days. Was sorry to see him go -- The day we covered Katko v. Briney (the spring gun case) was the funniest single day of my life. Class of 2001 knows exactly what I'm talking about, but for others -- let's just say that calling on an Alabamian to discuss that case may not have yielded the desired result. Quote of the lecture "hell, that's a child's shotgun".
4:03 - both 3:49(2)/3:51(2) are no worse than 3:45(1)
In addition to the Southeast, Emory has a pretty strong presence in NY and DC.
And I think the comment that a majority of the 3L class are of yet without jobs may be an overstatement. Either way, Emory is ranked in the low 20s by U.S. News, which means that not everyone in the bottom third of the class who wants a BigLaw job gets one. It's the same for every school outside of the top 15 or so schools.
Besides, who has faith in the career services of ANY law school? This is not news. Slow day, Lat.
emory 2Ls: how'd the hiring season turn out? for people looking for a job in atlanta, did you get the one you wanted?
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
I have a hard time believing the person who wrote the email to ATL is a law student. Can't write for shit.
Partlett is odd. While he was at Vandy, didn't he marry a former student or have an affair with a student and then the student got shipped off to another school?
WGWAG
LAST!
EMORY LAW RULES!
ELS Alum (4:09) has a pretty good command "on" the English language. Hilarious.
Partlett is actually a very dynamic and brilliant professor. His students universally love him. And the fact that he inherited Prosser's torts empire pretty much answers any criticisms regarding his legal acumen and publishing. Feel free to hate, just don't misrepresent.
As for the career services debacle--who knows. Emory is not the only law school whose placement office is run by incompetents. It's pretty much an epidemic everywhere.
EMORY LAW RULES!
We won't miss career services. They didn't help me find a job whatsoever.
Good point, 4:11(3). I missed that one.
Partlett is actually a very dynamic and brilliant professor. His students universally love him. And the fact that he inherited Prosser's torts empire pretty much answers any criticisms regarding his legal acumen and publishing. Feel free to hate, just don't misrepresent.
As for the career services debacle--who knows. Emory is not the only law school whose placement office is run by incompetents. It's pretty much an epidemic everywhere.
NY to 190!
very slow news day
Good candidates don't need career services. Whole thing is a drain on the law school and they should all be sent away. In fact, the entire "career guidance" profession is for total losers who probably can't be helped anyway.
imho
Please Partlett Rocks, regale us with some more of your stories from your law school days. I am still laughing at the spring gun joke. Thank goodness I took the time to read these comments. I can't wait to get home and tell my wife about the comment I read on ATL today. Child's Shotgun, hahahahah. That is priceless.
yo let's get some more bonus info
Quite a few dbags in this thread.
Partlett went to W&L after vandy and was the same there. Funny guy, made money for the school, but that's about it.
Most of you are clearly pathetic, self-centered, elitist know-it-alls who, in a word, suck. I look forward to the day 15 years from now you realize that you have grown nothing, built nothing, invented nothing, and instead made your living doing nothing but leeching off of the talents and ingenuity of others only so you can become well-compensated but never wealthy. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Yes, I'm talking to you, asshole.
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
A friend from Emory told me that their career placement is essentially tier 2, as in top 10% get good jobs and everyone else is screwed. I didn't believe him, but now I wonder.
any publicity is good publicity
You're kidding right? It's more accurate to say that Emory places a handful of people in each of those cities each year. Nothing to brag about.
"In addition to the Southeast, Emory has a pretty strong presence in NY and DC. "
Most of you are clearly pathetic, self-centered, elitist know-it-alls who, in a word, suck. I look forward to the day 15 years from now you realize that you have grown nothing, built nothing, invented nothing, and instead made your living doing nothing but leeching off of the talents and ingenuity of others only so you can become well-compensated but never wealthy. You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Yes, I'm talking to you, asshole.
A similar thing happened when I went to Emory. During the beginning of my 2L year, most of the career services office quit within days of each other.
We also had more global adminstration problems, since we never had a permanent dean while I was there either.
I always liked the teachers, but they cannot get their adminstration together and the career services sucks (unless you want to work in Georgia, or a bordering state). Only top 10% really got a shot through OCI, everyone else had to make it happen for themselves.
Fortunately, the school does carry a nice national reputation - to the extent that everyone recognizes it as a "good" school (i.e. I found that on interviews people viewed Emory as at worst a neutral, but generally with some degree of respect, even among the AmLaw 100).
Of course, even though these things pop up frequently, Emory will go right back to its place in the mid-20s on rankings, because it does remain generally respected among academics, and it has enough talented people to get good jobs and become good attorneys at strong firms.
4:25(2) your friend is right 90% of emory law grads get screwed as well as all of the grads of the hundreds of law schools ranked behing Emory
"For a moderately ranked school, affiliated with a fairly prestigious undergraduate institution"
In whose opinion is Emory presitgious? Who knew Emory had a law school?
lat, how about doing a series on current law students' experiences with their career services office? pick a sampling of law schools, solicit comments, and put something together...
"I look forward to the day 15 years from now you realize that you have grown nothing, built nothing, invented nothing, and instead made your living doing nothing but leeching off of the talents and ingenuity of others only so you can become well-compensated but never wealthy."
Hey - me too! You just summarized my mission statement perfectly. Whenever I meet a talented person, I ask myself - how can I get me some money off that? So far, so good.
cheers
Emory isn't the only school with horrible career services. Rutgers, had pretty much the entire career services department quit in 2003, and brand new people brought in for 2004. Most of the new people, quit or or went on maternity leave that year.
I could probably beat L2L for the stories of the horrible jobs posted by the career services. Luckily, the school was good enough, and I found a biglaw job without career services' help.
she really was very competent, what's the big deal? You all need more work or more hobbies.
Check this shit out:
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
4:26(2) best ATL comment ever!
4:26(2) best ATL comment ever!
Matched
Ninetieth!
4:11 rofl
That woman sounds like the biggest loser ever
Check this shit out:
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
EMORY LAW RULES!
100th!
Comment clusterf*ck
4:26(2) - got rejected, huh?
emory 2l (at 4:25), you are profoundly mistaken. Only pristine publicity is good publicity. Rightly or wrongly, this site is read by recruiting coordinators at the nation's top firms. It is read by members of compensation committees. It is trolled by thousands of law students and (mostly) young lawyers (i.e. your future inteviewers, bosses, and clients).
I'm not sure what troubles me more, the school administration's poor handling of this matter, or the fact that Emory students (Michael Phillips and the student who leaked this to Above the Law, if they are in fact different people) have acted so self-destructively.
Emory students: (1) demand that the Dean begin taking this seriously and (2) thank Michael Phillips and anyone else responsible for making you today's unenviable topic of the nation's legal gossip circuit.
Dear 4:30,
Re: "she really was very competent, what's the big deal?"
First of all, hello Laurie. So nice of you to chime in on the blog entry bashing Emory that you're responsible for.
Secondly, are you nuts? She could barely hold a conversation, let alone provide guidance on careers. And she was rude to everyone! Good riddens.
Now maybe Emory will cough up some $$$ and pay a real Dean of Career Services from a top 15 school to turn things around.
next matching memo comes out and no one will even remember this. emory what?
EMORY LAW RULES!
I didn't realize the extent of how crappy my regional law school's career services dept was until I was on the other side. I wanted to put up a job posting for my successor as a law clerk and I wrote two emails and left three messages during several weeks before getting a response. Sheesh, if I wasn't from there, would I have even tried more than once or just figured the ineptitude of the staff probably was reflected in the students as well?
Someone matched!?!?!??!
Who matched?
NY to 190!
Come on, we all know how this goes- Emory ALum who have jobs- love her. EMory alums who dont" hate her. I hate her. I even told her that in my exit survey. The entire dept is a joke. Said it my entire time.
And those who couldn't get into a school they are bashing? well we know your agenda.
As far as I'm concerned, you people who actually read "law gossip" blogs are pretty pathetic in yourself.
True story from Fordham Law:
The Assistant Dean of Career Services, Suzanne Endrizzi found a dead rat in her air conditioner.
Karma bites!
Come on, we all know how this goes- Emory ALum who have jobs- love her. EMory alums who dont" hate her. I hate her. I even told her that in my exit survey. The entire dept is a joke. Said it my entire time.
And those who couldn't get into a school they are bashing? well we know your agenda.
As far as I'm concerned, you people who actually read "law gossip" blogs are pretty pathetic in yourself.
W&C
"Partlett is odd. While he was at Vandy, didn't he marry a former student or have an affair with a student and then the student got shipped off to another school?"
When I was at VLS, he supposedly had an affair with one of my classmates. Who did not get shipped off.
Emory's B-School will always be better than Emory's Law School.
Forget second tier nationally. More like second tier on campus.
Emory's B-School will always be better than Emory's Law School.
Forget second tier nationally. More like second tier on campus.
Career Services DOES NOT mean "welcome to emory, here is your job". That is only the case at 5 or 6 law schools in the country.
Looking for a job is like taking another class. This is something that Emory instills from day 1. Not everyone wants to work in Atlanta and Emory does what it can do to get law firms from outside Atlanta to come on campus or participate in job fairs. The bottom line is that it is very expensive to send an attorney to Atlanta, then pay for law students to fly up to New York, DC, Chicago etc. They would much rather go to local schools and save the money. As a result, Emory students have to work hard at finding employment. They have to be very aggressive at contacting other Emory alums and get their foot in the door. They have to fly to NY, DC, Chicago on their own dime and meet as many Emory alums as possible. Its less about what the Dean of Career Services can do, but more about what YOU can do as a student. I cant see why anyone would want this job.. its thankless.. its tough...there is no way to win, unless all 200+ students have jobs at Biglaw when they graduate (assuming thats what they want).
Students should not use this "controversy" as the excuse for why they dont have a job as a 3L. Emory has done a lot to help students, but the onus is on them. In fact there is a former Dean of Career Services whose sole responsibility is to help 3L's with their job search. She is a wonderful person who has done a wonderful job over the years. She even goes out of her way to help alums who are looking for work. There are people in that career services office who have dedicated their lives to Emory. My guess is that there is no smoking gun here, but just major burnout on the part of the Dean. Students expect jobs to be handed to them. What unbelievable expectations.
ATL WON the blog award.
Career Services DOES NOT mean "welcome to emory, here is your job". That is only the case at 5 or 6 law schools in the country.
Looking for a job is like taking another class. This is something that Emory instills from day 1. Not everyone wants to work in Atlanta and Emory does what it can do to get law firms from outside Atlanta to come on campus or participate in job fairs. The bottom line is that it is very expensive to send an attorney to Atlanta, then pay for law students to fly up to New York, DC, Chicago etc. They would much rather go to local schools and save the money. As a result, Emory students have to work hard at finding employment. They have to be very aggressive at contacting other Emory alums and get their foot in the door. They have to fly to NY, DC, Chicago on their own dime and meet as many Emory alums as possible. Its less about what the Dean of Career Services can do, but more about what YOU can do as a student. I cant see why anyone would want this job.. its thankless.. its tough...there is no way to win, unless all 200+ students have jobs at Biglaw when they graduate (assuming thats what they want).
Students should not use this "controversy" as the excuse for why they dont have a job as a 3L. Emory has done a lot to help students, but the onus is on them. In fact there is a former Dean of Career Services whose sole responsibility is to help 3L's with their job search. She is a wonderful person who has done a wonderful job over the years. She even goes out of her way to help alums who are looking for work. There are people in that career services office who have dedicated their lives to Emory. My guess is that there is no smoking gun here, but just major burnout on the part of the Dean. Students expect jobs to be handed to them. What unbelievable expectations.
GO ATL!
Alright new memo, Emory Who?
Come on, we all know how this goes- Emory ALum who have jobs- love her. EMory alums who dont" hate her. I hate her. I even told her that in my exit survey. The entire dept is a joke. Said it my entire time.
And those who couldn't get into a school they are bashing? well we know your agenda.
As far as I'm concerned, you people who actually read "law gossip" blogs are pretty pathetic in yourself.
As an Emory law student, I fail to see why we deserve any insight into Dean Hartman’s personal life. For whatever reason, she doesn’t work at Emory anymore. It’s definitely not any of your business. Get over your self-entitlement and deal with it.
Lastly, thanks for embarrassing the school with your idiocy. Learn to write and spell before you complain about career services not getting you a job. They can’t perform miracles.
As an Emory law student, I fail to see why we deserve any insight into Dean Hartman’s personal life. For whatever reason, she doesn’t work at Emory anymore. It’s definitely not any of your business. Get over your self-entitlement and deal with it.
Lastly, thanks for embarrassing the school with your idiocy. Learn to write and spell before you complain about career services not getting you a job. They can’t perform miracles.
I wish I went to Emory
4:38: Nope, my loser friend, I am a T5 law school grad, senior associate in BigLaw, living in a huge house with a trophy wife, and have every material thing I could ever want, except to shut up morons like you who think that (1) because you go, or went, to a certain law school you are smarter than everyone else; and (2) because you are, or are going to be, a BigLaw lawyer, you are smarter than everyone else. You are a waste of human space, and you know it. Cheers!
Hey Goizueta Alum, is that why we moved into the top 25 this year and you moved out of it?
All this over the firing/resignation or whatever of a mid-level member of some law school's administration. Really?
Yay for ATL...
btw- 4:56- looks like Laurie's got some time on her hands, no? I guess that's what you do when you get canned (or as she puts it- "no smoking gun...just major burnout"). Laurie and Emory both need better PR.
Come on, we all know how this goes- Emory ALum who have jobs- love her. EMory alums who dont" hate her. I hate her. I even told her that in my exit survey. The entire dept is a joke. Said it my entire time.
And those who couldn't get into a school they are bashing? well we know your agenda.
As far as I'm concerned, you people who actually read "law gossip" blogs are pretty pathetic in yourself.
4:38: Nope, my loser friend, I am a T5 law grad, Biglaw senior associate, living in a huge house, trophy wife, not a material want in the world, EXCEPT to rid the world of morons like you who think (1) because you go, or went, to one law school as opposed to another, you are smarter than everyone else; and (2) because you are, or will be, a Biglaw lawyer, you are smarter than everyone else. You, my loser friend, are a total douchebag, and everyone who knows you knows it. Sadly, your family probably knows it too. Cheers!
Emory isn't the only place where this crap with career services and facist administrators and incompetent so-called "faculty" goes on. Similar shenanigans take place at U of Iowa Law.
I hate "facist" administrators so much
First!
TROPHY wife?
no MATERIAL wants?
damn. you shut me up. you have it all! I mean, Your "biglaw" firm is so much better off for having you. You can deduce that I'm a total douchbag and my family knows it all based on a 5 line post. You must have learned those skills at your T12 college before you got to your T5 law school.
Holy Shit! They started a Facebook group!
Everyone knows that is just as effective as storming the Bastille. They must mean business.
4:38
Is having a trophy wife all that fulfilling?
Whenever someone brags about having one I immediately think that they are a huge loser that would be a sexually frustrated nerd without their big $$$.
BTW, she is probably sleeping around while you are at work 70 hours a week.
"Emory is ranked in the low 20s by U.S. News, which means that
not everyone in the bottom third of the class who wants a BigLaw job gets one."
are you implying that everyone in the top two thirds of the class who wants a biglaw job does get one or is my brain just broken again?
Does the school's crest actually include a golf tee? WTF?
To M. Phillips and Anyone Else Responsible for Making this an Issue:
I landed my top choice biglaw job without the assitance of the career services office. What limited contact I did have with those folks was always perfectly pleasant and they seemed willing to help in any way possible (if needed). They're not there to hold your hand. How the hell will you cope as a lawyer?
By making this a heavily-read story on Above the Law, you have harmed your job prospects in a way that NO amount of career services office hand-holding can repair.
Gook luck to you.
Can someone tell me what country this Emory is in? Never heard of it.
I think ATL should stop covering the South.
"4:38: Nope, my loser friend, I am a T5 law grad, Biglaw senior associate, living in a huge house, trophy wife, not a material want in the world, EXCEPT to rid the world of morons like you"
Is ridding the world of morons like 4:38 really a material want?
my trophy wife is a lawyer, too.
my trophy wife is a lawyer, too.
I understand the students went to Facebook when they were not permitted to use Emory's email system to discuss the bill school-wide.
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
5:37: no, you're right, that was grammatically sloppy, but it is getting late in the day and I've been hitting my Biglaw 18-year old office scotch a little hard this afternoon
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
This just in, USNews - Emory to Second Tier
Well, Dean Hartman--welcome to the "internets." BTW--I have a job at big law. Yes, you were my assigned career counselor. After we met I rescheduled all career related appointments with other career service employees. The fact that you seemed a little off kilter and smelled like a dumpster had a lot to do with it.
A few other notes:
1. You consistently mispronounced many ATLANTA law firm names--even after you were corrected by lawyers visiting campus from those firms.
2. You madam, are no lady. You were rude and obnoxious to students.
3. You shoveled work off on other employees at the school.
4. You alienated a number of employers.
5. It is amazing that you weren't fired earlier.
6. Why not just post under your real name? There is no one Emory alum or student who would defend your "leadership" of our career services office.
You should be very thankful the real reasons for your firing have not been revealed. Because of your incompetency and some asshole who sent this stuff to ATL, Emory and Dean Partlett are being unfairly drug through the mud by the many individuals who, as noted earlier, have very little to offer the world.
Emory students are diverse, talented, and many will have an impact on the world beyond suckling at the teets of those who can do great things for the world. Some of us, will be more than, as a fellow Emory 3L puts it "transaction costs."
Good riddance.
1) You don't have to be in the top ten percent to get a biglaw job from Emory. It may require a little work on your own in some cases, but suck it up and put your neck out there in the job market. YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL ENTITLED TO A JOB JUST BECAUSE YOU COAST THROUGH EMORY LAW IN THE MIDDLE 50%.
2) Career Services, similar to many schools like Emory, is what it is, and no more. Why do we care so much about this? The only thing that came of one "Mikie" Phillips' rant was a self-destructive distraction, and an excuse to all those who can't find a job.
3) Phillips clearly doesn't share the same views as most of us strapped with legal debt... http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A135694
"ashames me"
Are you serious?
'Ata girl, Evan!
'Ata girl, Evan!
As an Emory law student, I fail to see why we deserve any insight into Dean Hartman’s personal life. For whatever reason, she doesn’t work at Emory anymore. It’s definitely not any of your business. Get over your self-entitlement and deal with it.
Thanks for embarrassing the school with your idiocy. Learn to spell and write before you complain about career services. They can't perform miracles.
'Ata girl, Evan!
1) You don't have to be in the top ten percent to get a biglaw job from Emory. It may require a little work on your own in some cases, but suck it up and put your neck out there in the job market. YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL ENTITLED TO A JOB JUST BECAUSE YOU COAST THROUGH EMORY LAW IN THE MIDDLE 50%.
2) Career Services, similar to many schools like Emory, is what it is, and no more. Why do we care so much about this? The only thing that came of one "Mikie" Phillips' rant was a self-destructive distraction, and an excuse to all those who can't find a job.
3) Phillips clearly doesn't share the same views as most of us strapped with legal debt... http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A135694
In response to the question about whether Emory 2Ls are getting jobs they wanted, the answer is yes. Many 2Ls I know already have their summer jobs arranged, and they are with BigLaw firms in New York, DC, and Atlanta. I was personally offered jobs by 9 law firms in New York and Atlanta while a 2L at Emory. Those who state that they don't know where Emory is or that it has a law school ought to take a look at the law school rankings (yes, Emory is ranked, no, not as a mediocre school - it's a simple matter of numbers) or do a simple internet search before stating in a public forum that they can't figure out where in the country the school is located.
In response to the question about whether Emory 2Ls are getting jobs they wanted, the answer is yes. Many 2Ls I know already have their summer jobs arranged, and they are with BigLaw firms in New York, DC, and Atlanta. I was personally offered jobs by 9 law firms in New York and Atlanta while a 2L at Emory. Those who state that they don't know where Emory is or that it has a law school ought to take a look at the law school rankings (yes, Emory is ranked, no, not as a mediocre school - it's a simple matter of numbers) or do a simple internet search before stating in a public forum that they can't figure out where in the country the school is located.
4:38
Is having a trophy wife all that fulfilling?
Whenever someone brags about having one I immediately think that they are a huge loser that would be a sexually frustrated nerd without their big $$$.
BTW, she is probably sleeping around while you are at work 70 hours a week.
Where is Emory located?
In response to the question about whether Emory 2Ls are getting jobs they wanted, the answer is yes. Many 2Ls I know already have their summer jobs arranged, and they are with BigLaw firms in New York, DC, and Atlanta. I was personally offered jobs by 9 law firms in New York and Atlanta while a 2L at Emory. Those who state that they don't know where Emory is or that it has a law school ought to take a look at the law school rankings (yes, Emory is ranked, no, not as a mediocre school - it's a simple matter of numbers) or do a simple internet search before stating in a public forum that they can't figure out where in the country the school is located.
Evan is right. The SBA is not "headed for a showdown" because they care more about what Partlett thinks of them than what the student body wants. Joke of a democratic body.
Emory must be new. Never herd of it.
Wow, anonymous message boards really bring out the most courageous of legal trolls.
ATL: "Rumors and Gossip abound at Emory!"
- more rumors and gossip after the bump
Anonymous legal troll: *sips fine wine* I do say anything below the top ten is garbage anyway here here
Anonymous disgruntled bottom 10% Emory Law alum: EMORY IS SHIT BECAUSE IT HAS WOODEN PATIO FURNITURE!! WOODEN!!!
Anonymous legal troll: durrrrrr Emory has a law school hurrrrrr hurrrrrrr
ad nauseam
Evan is right, the SBA is not "headed for a showdown" because they care more about what Partlett thinks of them than they do about what the students want. Joke of a democratically elected body.
Some of you Emoryites seem to be getting a little hysterical. Calm down--it's not that serious.
Justin Barry for best looking 3L.
As an Emory law student, I fail to see why we deserve any insight into Dean Hartman’s personal life. For whatever reason, she doesn’t work at Emory anymore. It’s definitely not any of your business. Get over your self-entitlement and deal with it.
Thanks for embarrassing the school with your idiocy. Learn to spell and write before you complain about career services. They can't perform miracles.
I am waiting for L2L to comment on Emory
Emory isn't the only place where this crap with career services and facist administrators and incompetent so-called "faculty" goes on. Similar shenanigans take place at U of Iowa Law.
--------------------------------------------------
Quote of the day right there.
EmoryAlumCurrentlyatBigLaw | @04:56 PM
You wrote: "Career Services DOES NOT mean "welcome to emory, here is your job". That is only the case at 5 or 6 law schools in the country."
I'd say that is how it works at the top 10 schools. Not 5 or 6.
Memo to Emory Students -
Your school is not prestigious. Graduates of truly elite institutions laugh at your stiverism.
Best -
Biglaw
Hartman/Colbert 08'
6:32 - You've never "herd" of Emory? Perhaps you have heard of spell and grammar check?
Did everyone ever notice that schools that aren't prestigious don't have good career services? Do you want to know why? It is hard to convince someone who doesn't want to hire you to hire you. Rutgers? Iowa? Come on.
[sic]
I can see a decent law school garnering this much attention, but why Emory? It's a mediocre school with striverish, extremely insecure graduates. When it's thought about, it's not highly respected at my firm at all.
anyone else think the dean telling the student to "remove his cell phone from his pocket" was a sexual innuendo? ; )
We don't and never will (officially) know the details of personnel files, etc. That does not make asking for more information about administration strategy for career services irresponsible.
Nor does the grammar of the 'leak' post negate the point made by it -- that this was handled poorly and secretively by an administration more concerned with politics than creating an academic environment.
In the same way, the tired point that "Career Services doesn't just hand you a job on a silver platter", with its implicit criticism of any student who complains, fails to address the question here. No shit, they don't magically create jobs. But they do have access to resources and connections to make the process easier, and their ability to do that (when that is their sole mission within the school) is a perfectly valid subject for criticism.
Finally, I find the argument that by airing grievances, we simply harm ourselves (via tarnishing our own school's reputation) despicable. If problems were addressed rather than closed off from public debate; if we had a functioning representative body that voiced student concerns; if administration cared about development of the school rather than short-term rankings gains; if learning about the law or how to practice it existed in our school's top ten priorities; if we weren't pitted against each other systematically by allowing class rank to determine all; and if the administration cared about making a good school rather than an merely a generic law school (targeted at people who care a lot about school rankings and who didn't get in to the places they wanted)... if ANY of these were true, this kind of bile wouldn't be spewed into the public. This note in ATL is just like the facebook group -- an indirect creation of those at the school who, strangely, VALUE the petty, competitive, amoral culture that law school is, and who seek to preserve it.
it "ashames" me too.
I can see a decent law school garnering this much attention, but why Emory? It's a mediocre school with striverish, extremely insecure graduates. When it's thought about, it's not highly respected at my firm at all.
emory students: quit while you're behind and call it a day
The finest appellate litigator in the galaxy graduated from Emory Law.
anyone else think the dean telling the student to "remove his cell phone from his pocket" was a sexual innuendo? ; )
Emory has a law school?
I’m a 3L at Emory who has a biglaw job in NY.
This has been blown out of proportion—one incompetent law school dean got fired, who really cares. The new career services director starting from December will be Janet Hutchinson who will be returning to Emory from Paul Hastings Atlanta where she was director of recruiting. Janet is first-class.
Dean Hartman was not good at her job. She could be obnoxious to students. She also was on personal leave for a significant duration of her tenure. She didn’t get along with her staff because she’s an abrasive person.
Dean Brokaw’s response does not surprise me. She is a smart woman, but can be overly sensitive and abrasive. She is largely disliked by the students.
Mikey Phillips is a good student and a good guy; if you look at the questions he asked, they’re all fair. I’m not sure students “have a right” to answers, but they’re fair questions. He was not the person who reported this to ATL. SBA at Emory is composed of nice people who don’t like to ruffle any feathers. A dean of career services getting fired during the middle of recruiting season is strange—probably an issue that SBA should take seriously in some way.
At a tier-2 school like Emory, students cannot expect that career services will get them a job. Be top 1/3 in the class, and you won’t have too much trouble. Otherwise, it’s your responsibility.
Emory has always been a shithole.
Why go to Emory if you want to work in Atlanta? UGA is down the street, cheaper, and just as good in Georgia.
Why go to Emory if you want to work out of state? You can go to at least 3 other law schools in the south (UVA, Duke, Vandy) that have better reputations and better placement.
Ultimate reject school for undergrad and law school.
"Thats what she said"
anyone else think the dean telling the student to "remove his cell phone from his pocket" was a sexual innuendo? ; )
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
anyone else think the dean telling the student to "remove his cell phone from his pocket" was a sexual innuendo? ; )
georgia state rulz, emory drools
Emory grads in BigLaw are like unicorns.
No seriously, where is emory?
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
I think Emory's one of those online law schools. It's new.
Evan can you post your comment again?
Evan, please re-post your comment several more times. Thanks.
WGWAG?
To think that people who know nothing about Emory would say such negative things about such an amazing institution truly sickens me. If I had not attended Emory, I would not have known the true meaning of friendship, honor, and respect. I can only imagine the lack of character of posters who would say things that lack a foundation in fact. And you call yourselves lawyers. For shame.
the time of the nerd has come! are there really people on here arguing over law school ratings? really? it's law school. as in, you should have a life and law school should be something that you do during life. now, i apologize that you didn't have many friends in high school and\or undergrad. but rejoice my lame friends, you now have the ability to argue about ratings. congrats.
I'm reserving judgment on this whole deal until Evan Cline weighs in.
the time of the nerd has come! are there really people on here arguing over law school ratings? really? it's law school. as in, you should have a life and law school should be something that you do during life. now, i apologize that you didn't have many friends in high school and\or undergrad. but rejoice my lame friends, you now have the ability to argue about ratings. congrats.
Oh, and Evan Cline, repost if you agree with me.
The fact that you would shill for such a transparently mediocre institution kinda discredits your high-minded point. Unless, of course, that was tongue in cheek, in which case that was pretty cool.
Oops. 7:36 was in response to 7:31.
I'm new here. Can someone tell me who this Evan Cline fellow is?
I didn't realize so many associates at BigLaw and so many law students at prestigious top ten law schools were cowardly shitheads who spent their billable hours and free time throwing stones from the shadows of the internet.
Ok, Evan's post is fair - this did disintegrate into calling Emory a TTT. HOWEVER, the original point stands which is that Dean Brokaw completely overstepped her authority in the way she acted. If someone at my law school treate me like that, I'd raise unbelievable hell. Can you imagine the condescension required to tell someone to take out and turn off their cell phone before you threatened to sue them?
Ok, Evan's post is fair - this did disintegrate into calling Emory a TTT. HOWEVER, the original point stands which is that Dean Brokaw completely overstepped her authority in the way she acted. If someone at my law school treated me like that, I'd raise unbelievable hell. Can you imagine the condescension required to tell someone to take out and turn off their cell phone before you threatened to sue them?
Mike Jungman:
Apparently you've never visited ATL?
I read the articles, but I've never bothered to post/read comments.
Apparently the comments section is for anonymous mud slinging, name calling, and all around circle jerk immaturity? Sounds awesome.
Some retard said "good riddens". TTT defined.
Why am I so kick-ass? Is it because I'm dating Demi Moore? Yeah, you know it.
There is nothing immature about a circle jerk.
Now a game of "soggy toast" is another matter...
FIRST!!!
7:18: riiiiiight. like our cso is sooooooooo much better. keep drinking the kool-aid. there are the two bright points: our annual tuition is about 32K cheaper AND we have the best GA bar pass rate.
Mike Jungman:
I understand why you are upset. I too would be defensive if I get rejected from elite institutions like the George Washington University and Washington University in Saint Louis.
True story from Fordham Law:
The Assistant Dean of Career Services, Suzanne Endrizzi found a dead rat in her air conditioner.
IsEndrizzi the one who wears the black leather boots and is outside around the corner smoking all the time? Fordham's CPC sounds almost as bad as Emory's.
yeah, you would think 7:31 is a parody post. you would think that if you've never met emory students.
Man, law students are a bunch of whiny babies. In the real world, if a partner at your firm left abruptly under mysterious circumstances, I'd dare you to go to the head of the firm and demand to know why. Sure, someone might know and you might eventually be told, officially or through the rumor mill, but the plain truth is that you have no right no know. A Facebook movement? Very mature.
The only thing law students should be "guaranteed" (and even that is too strong) is that career services remain available and the personnel change does not adversely impact them. Since everyone is saying that this woman was not suited for this job, I can't see how her departure with a plan with a competent replacement disadvantages them.
By the way, it's November. Career Services has largely done its job for the fall - students should have completed call backs and should be weighing their offers. Those without offers won't be finding anything at this time - they won't have any open slots to try to slip into until at least December or, much more likely, spring, because large firms don't know how many offers will be accepted yet (but aren't doing any additional initial interviews), and smaller firms and non-firms do their interviewing in the spring, usually.
What a whiny tempest in a teapot.
FIRST
Yes, Mike Jungman, that's mostly what happens in the comments section here. It's often a lot of drivel, especially when the Autoadmit regulars are on the scene. But Mike, guess what - it is what it is.
It is a "gossip" site, which by definition is mainly comment-driven. Yes, Lat selects stories, creates threads, and collects tips from readers for the latest in salary/bonus movements and scandals with some sort of legal hook. But a lot of students and lawyers also look to the comments for insights into particular firms (pay, lifestyle, busyness, etc.). And juicy scandals!
Do you really expect law students and lawyers to post under their true names? That, my good man, would be very poor judgment. Newly minted law grads have NOTHING to offer their employers BUT good judgment. We'll learn the rest on the job.
Speaking of poor judgment, the following summary will go down in Emory history (and let's hope it's forgotten by everybody except Emory's administrators and students):
1) For whatever reasons, major staff changes were allowed to occur during recruiting season, including the sudden departure of the dean of career services.
2) When a student becomes (understandably) concerned with item #1, he decides the best way to handle it would be to air it out on the Internet. Yeah, I'd like THAT guy to work at my firm or on my legal matter (because law firms and corporations never have any administrative, managerial or political dust-ups, right?).
3) When a dean at the school hears about item #2, she calls him in and tries to strong-arm him. Rather than listening to his grievance and working to resolve it (or at least mollify him), she (allegedly) treats him with hostility.
4) The SBA is working with some sort of "bill" to address the situation. Great sense of urgency. Should be resolved just in time for the 2008 recruiting season.
5) Some complete moron at Emory brings this whole ridiculous affair to the attention of Above the Law. As a result, a school that is host to an excellent faculty and good student body (who place just as well in biglaw as its peer schools) is defamed on a nationally read law blog. Yes, recruiting coordinators, interviewers, future bosses and co-workers read this blog. If you're at or recently graduated from Emory and are having a hard time landing a good job, do you think this scandal has been good for your prospects?
6) The SBA president, who is a smart, hard working and well-meaning young woman, writes an impromptu comment in an attempt to close the floodgates. I'm sorry, but they were kicked open the moment one of our less gifted classmates emailed Above the Law.
When this sort of thing happens (and it has on here, many times), the response must be official and very carefully crafted (and extremely well written). The Dean should have called the SBA president into his office, along with a few of the smartest and more communications savvy professors, to craft a statement to send to Lat, who by now would have "updated" the Emory thread with the official response. Some firms have done so very effectively (see Kirkland's recent handling of its lay-offs/firing rumor), others not so much (see Nixon Peabody).
Let's hope the (paradoxical) coverage of bonuses and layoffs continues tomorrow morning and eclipses this wholly avoidable and absurd affair.
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
I hate that this has been so blown out of proportion. Emory Law School is a fantastic place to go to school and I have enjoyed the time spent here more than anyone could imagine. I am the President of the Student Bar Association and have worked closely with Dean Brokaw, Dean Partlett and Dean Hartman. Each is a caring, thoughtful person and all have helped the school grow considerably. The bill that is at issue here has not yet been presented to the SBA and we certainly are not "headed for a showdown" with anyone. We are working to have everything resolved as quickly as possible. It ashames me to think that one of our own would post something that would lessen the JD that we are all here to gain. I hope that those of you reading can understand that Emory is solid, the leadership is excellent, and unfortunately at least one student simply does not have good judgment.
Evan, please see item #6 from emory3L; he/she makes solid points. Didn't you see the snarky comment hours ago pillorying you for saying "ashames"? (I'm assuming that no one would be low enough to copy and paste Evan's earlier post and post under her name.)
We looked up stiverism. Damnit. Well, this has been fun. Back to the job hunt!
PS- Justin Barry is definitely the hottest 3L.
This is article misleads everyone about what is happening at Emory Law. If you knew the individual who wrote the article or Mr. Phillips then you would realize that they are making a mountain out of something they shouldn't be. Emory Law Career service is no different than any other career services. The problem is that students think a job should be given to them on a golden plate.
Evan, please see item #6 from emory3L; he/she makes solid points. Didn't you see the snarky comment hours ago pillorying you for saying "ashames"? (I'm assuming that no one would be low enough to copy and paste Evan's earlier post and post under her name.)
Mikey Phillips is a friend of mine and a good, socially conscious guy. His aim was never to satisfy his own curiosity about Dean Hartman, or even to improve the career services office. He was concerned, along with many of us, about the transparency of the administration's decision-making in areas that seriously impact students.
School-wide e-mails must pass through the SBA president (Evan Cline) before they are published. Because Mikey's attempts to ask his questions through that medium were stifled, he turned to the Facebook. Hopefully the STUDENT Bar Association will rectify the poor judgment that they exercised in this matter, and actually start putting student concerns before the will of the administration.
This all really isn't a big deal. No need for all the name-calling.
Yeah Emory sucks only in the top 25 but according to the commments on ATL only the top 3 law school matter every else suck donkey di*k
Help! I'm in Dean Brokaw's trunk!
I am still trying to help my husband recover from TB! Please stop bashing my school!
Jim sucks donkey dick!
All of this Student-on-Student Violence!
When it's really the administration that should just give a little more information for some students' concerns - even if it is "we have no more information!"
I am so relieved I chose Loyola over Emory--what a TTT.
I heard Dean Brokaw also threatened to curb anyone who posts mean things about her on ATL
The way I see it, there are really 2 separate stories here: Hartman and Brokaw. Since I don't go to emory, I don't really have a dog in the Hartman hunt. But the Brokaw thing is something all law school students should be concerned about (i.e. the way administration feels free to intimidate students and muzzle perfectly legitimate speech). It seems to me that what she said/did (if reported accurately) warrants her dismissal; at the very least, I would think it warrants a sincere apology to the student.
Thank God this type of crap would never happen at Vandy. Our career services office is fantastic (maybe because it isn't staffed by failed attorneys and ex-recruiting bimbos). I cannot believe people even consider Emory our peer.
However, I am still looking for a top LS w/ a decent dean of student affairs or something functionally equivalent. Our Dean Sandine is no nut-job like this Brokaw (really smart to threaten the kid....), but she is a bit of a petty bureaucrat who talks down to students.
Anyone know any?
EMORY LAW RULES!
Number of posts on Pakistan's Chief Justice being arrested and lawyers being beaten, teargassed and arrested=37
Number of posts on a the career services lady at Emory leaving her job and the deans there refusing to answer questions from a 2L=237
We all have our heads up our asses. Some of us farther up than others.
Is it really wrong for a Dean (or anyone) who suspects that a conversation is going to be recorded, to ask that the other person take out his cell phone so that no recording takes place? I mean, c'mon. That's not exactly stifling speech.
When my mother was a 3L at Emory Law, someone stole one of her exams and replaced her grading number with his own. Once he was caught, he was allowed to retake the exam, graduate, and sit for the GA bar.
So much for promoting ethical conduct.
It's pathetic that people actually think a career services office has anything but a negligible effect on your finding a job. Outside of the top few law schools, you have to make it happen yourself. Blaming career services because you don't have a job just means that you are lazy and blame anyone but yourself for your problems.
The way I see it, career services at any law school is like a bank or brokerage firm. They have a few tools to help you find a job (make money), but it's not their fault if you're unemployed (broke). Your own dumb ass is the reason you don't have a job.
Anon 8:58, the reason some of us aren't commenting on Pakistan and the lawyers there is we simply don't have much to say about it. We have never been to Pakistan. We don't know how the judicial system works. It doesn't mean we are uninterested or apathetic. There's really not much we can do about it except hope for the best.
On the other hand, almost all of us have had some experience with a law school career services office, so we have a lot to say about it. That doesn't mean Pakistan is lower priority, only that we are commenting about what we know and offering our own perspectives.
In other words, stop being so pretentious. Get off your white horse. You are not the only one here who cares about lawyers in Pakistan (or Burma or wherever else). Please...
"In the real world, if a partner at your firm left abruptly under mysterious circumstances, I'd dare you to go to the head of the firm and demand to know why."
__________________________________
In the real world, you aren't paying the salary of the head of the firm or the partner who left mysteriously.
I graduated from Emory Law. I have a great job in a big law firm, make more money than I can spend, live in a beautiful house in Buckhead, drive a brand new car, and generally think Emory worked out pretty well for me. I'm sorry some of you: (a) couldn't get in, or (b) didn't study hard enough to get the grades you needed so that career services could get you a job. Maybe if you spent less time bashing Emory and more time worrying about why you are a loser, you'd be better off.
1:51AM, give me a break about Vandy being better than Emory and our schools not being peers, which is clearly irrational. Since there are a whole four schools between Vandy and Emory in the US News rankings, I presume that is what you're basing your comment on? Or is it the fact that you have a better shot at jobs at, let's say, the Grand Ole Opry, or Graceland? Or Dollywood? I assume you went to law school to - gasp - get a job, and not live for the rest of your life cuddling your US News ranking. If that's the case, I'm sorry to say that Emory has the upper leg on you. We can have our pick of the best jobs in Atlanta. Or if you prefer, New York, or DC, or Chicago. How many people stay in Nashville? If you really went to Vanderbilt because of its ranking, then I feel sorry for you, because you had to live in Nashville for three years and then get in line behind Emory folks for a job in Atlanta.
Emory Law is a great law school and the students receive a top-tier education. I transferred from Emory to a Top 5 law school. Thus far, I have yet to see a major difference in the education.
In terms of job placement, I received numerous offers at Big Law in NY through Emory. While the school may help you get the initial interview, and everyone i know had numerous interviews, it is up to the student to get the offer.
This issue with the office of career services is a shame, but has not seriously damaged the job search for any of the 2L's or 3L's.
It amazes me that anyone outside of Emor Law School really cares.
I remember last year when a professor suggested 1Ls should be studying for exams over Thanksgiving break, some students complained to Brokaw and she sent out a school-wide email that was a not-so-subtle reprimand of the professor entitled "A Different View on Thanksgiving." Truly, many of the students at Emory are immature and many in the school's administration feel their job entails condescending and paternalistic responses to such behavior.
I'm an Emory Alum and I absolutely loved my time there. Whoever put Emory's dirty laundry on this website is a few french fries short of a happy meal. I was surrounded by a bunch of incredibly intelligent students there, but there were always those few MORONS that ruined it for the rest of us. But I'm sorry - socially awkward self-absorbed neurotic students are not just an Emory Law phenomenon...it's pretty universal amongst law students. I mean, I'm a litigator in NYC (yes, for BigLaw) and I'm surrounded by socially awkward self-absorbed neurotic lawyers...who didn't go to Emory...
"1:51AM, give me a break about Vandy being better than Emory and our schools not being peers, which is clearly irrational. Since there are a whole four schools between Vandy and Emory in the US News rankings, I presume that is what you're basing your comment on?"
Based on the LSAT/GPA admissions statistics I just saw on their websites, the median Emory student would not be admitted to Vandy. In fact, he/she would be at or below Vandy's 25th percentile.
As a rule anyone who acts as if their law school years are or were the best part of their live is a law dork. They should be ignored and shunned.
Why a law student would waste time with the issue involved in this post and waste time presenting anything to the SBA instead of studying or writing for a journal or doing a clinic somewhere is baffeling.
And why in the world would a law student throw his school under the bus by making this mess public and then commenting that his dean and fellow students do not believe in studying over Thanksgiving break?
Please get out of law school and go into business somewhere. Please do not go into my profession.
I am a current Emory 1L and I feel the dean's speech was taken out of context. His humor is very deadpan. That being the first time I heard him, I still picked up on it, and I've had many opportunities since to witness that consistent sarcastic humor, of which I really appreciate to lighten up the otherwise very stressful atmosphere of law school.
Wait a second. Can someone tell me where Emory is? Is it a new name for Cooley?
Job prospects are way better for Loyola graduates. Let's be honest people, Emory is in decline.
Decline? We raised 6 ranks just this year
Why go to Emory when you can go to Georgia State Law and get the same job?
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
I went to Emory and I loved it. This is being blown out of proportion.
Why are the Emory folks so insecure?
There is a HUGE difference between going to UGA/GA State and Emory. People in NYC/DC really have no name recognition of UGA or GA State (both of which are good schools) and your chances of getting a Biglaw job out of either of them are very very small. I know a ton of Biglaw lawyers who went to Emory Law, none who went to UGA or Ga St. If you want to stay in Georgia, UGA is very well thought of. Try to leave Georgia, good luck.
To last night's 8:35, touting UGA's bar results: check the July 2007 results. GSU has the best numbers for first-timers and overall, several percentage points ahead of both Emory and UGA.
Also, all this whining about "tell us why! or tell us why you can't tell us why!" is pathetic.
duh, hence the bitter a**holes that populate Emory.
People in NY and DC have heard of Emory, but why go there to work in NY and DC when you could go to Fordham or GW (in the same USNEWS range) and get the same or better job?
Thankfully, this story has been pushed "below the fold" (i.e. one must now click "Next" in order to see Emory's unenviable entry into Above the Law history.
Let's hope the school's administration and ALL of its students start to exercise some better judgment.
"Why are the Emory folks so insecure?"
same reason as wake forest. they game the USNWR rankings by rejecting tons of kids and then wonder why nobody even knows what state their schools are in.
10:39: I wasn't touting UGA's. I was responding to a post "GSU rulz, Emory drools." I went to State and I was partly responsible for the fantastic bar pass rate since I passed. I was just commenting that our CSO isn't that great so we shouldn't be bragging.
PS while you are mentioning how great we are you forgot to say that we had the highest average MBE!!!!
Who really cares? A Dean got fired because everyone hated her. Whoopdy doo.
to 10:38: search king & spalding's site (that is biglaw right?) lots of GSU grads there. i am not knocking emory but if you plan to stay in georgia it makes financial sense to go to gsu or uga. emory's tuition is at $40K and State's is at about $9K. if you are in the top 15% at state you can get a biglaw job if you want it. so why pay more to get the same job?
I have a job lined up with a V20, so I'm merely embarrassed by this ridiculous and wholly avoidable controversy. Hopefully my future colleagues will quickly forget about this story, and remember only that Emory is a solidly top 25 school.
For those of you at Emory who either (1) have no job or (2) have a job about which you're less than thrilled, you must be furious with (i) the school administration (for allowing career services to "implode" and for its treatment of Michael Phillips); (ii) Mr Phillips (for airing his grievance on the Internet, then spreading the word at school about Brokaw's strong-arm tactics); (iii) the morons responsible for getting this on Above the Law; and (iv) the SBA's poorly written and rashly posted response last night ("ashames"!).
As a poster correctly noted last night, we bring NOTHING to our future employers BUT good judgment.
EMORY LAW RULES!
Who really cares? A Dean got fired because everyone hated her. Whoopdy doo.
Who really cares? A Dean got fired because everyone hated her. Whoopdy doo.
"same reason as wake forest. they game the USNWR rankings by rejecting tons of kids and then wonder why nobody even knows what state their schools are in."
Emory is ranked 22 and Wake 36. Kind of in the same boat, but Emory is certainly higher. It was also voted the most underrated law school in the country about a month ago. My guess is you'll see it in the top 20 within the next 5 years.
"same reason as wake forest. they game the USNWR rankings by rejecting tons of kids and then wonder why nobody even knows what state their schools are in."
Emory is ranked 22 and Wake 36. Kind of in the same boat, but Emory is certainly higher. It was also voted the most underrated law school in the country about a month ago. My guess is you'll see it in the top 20 within the next 5 years.
Emory is ranked 22 and Wake 36. Kind of in the same boat, but Emory is certainly higher. It was also voted the most underrated law school in the country about a month ago. My guess is you'll see it in the top 20 within the next 5 years.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
TDB VIII -- Things haven't changed much. When I was there, cheating was rampant, and when brought to the attention of the admin, it was just ignored.
Most underrated = One step above T4
I hear that Emory will soon be ranked higher than Yale! Emory to T1.
whats with all the emory bashing? do you people honestly come online to bash other schools? thats pretty pathetic.
Emory may not be T14 but i think we all know its a great school. We get a great education and great jobs if we work hard. I am in the top 30% and got 6 job offers from big firms in NY.
Those of you who go to top law schools who come online and bash other schools, do you not have anything better to do? You may go to a better law school and you may get a better job...but if you spend your time trolling this website and get your kicks out of bashing emory, your life will suck anyway.
whats with all the emory bashing? do you people honestly come online to bash other schools? thats pretty pathetic.
Emory may not be T14 but i think we all know its a great school. We get a great education and great jobs if we work hard. I am in the top 30% and got 6 job offers from big firms in NY.
Those of you who go to top law schools who come online and bash other schools, do you not have anything better to do? You may go to a better law school and you may get a better job...but if you spend your time trolling this website and get your kicks out of bashing emory, your life will suck anyway.
whats with all the emory bashing? do you people honestly come online to bash other schools? thats pretty pathetic.
Emory may not be T14 but i think we all know its a great school. We get a great education and great jobs if we work hard. I am in the top 30% and got 6 job offers from big firms in NY.
Those of you who go to top law schools who come online and bash other schools, do you not have anything better to do? You may go to a better law school and you may get a better job...but if you spend your time trolling this website and get your kicks out of bashing emory, your life will suck anyway.
whats with all the emory bashing? do you people honestly come online to bash other schools? thats pretty pathetic.
Emory may not be T14 but i think we all know its a great school. We get a great education and great jobs if we work hard. I am in the top 30% and got 6 job offers from big firms in NY.
Those of you who go to top law schools who come online and bash other schools, do you not have anything better to do? You may go to a better law school and you may get a better job...but if you spend your time trolling this website and get your kicks out of bashing emory, your life will suck anyway.
I want to know what emory 2L thinks about people who come online just to bash other schools.
TIA.
Dean Brokaw is a fool. No one respects her.
Dean Partlett is a terrible public speaker.
Emory law will never improve with these 2 idiots at the helm.
Hey, could all of you who have no idea how this site works double, triple, and quadruple post a few more times? That would be great. Thanks.
So... since Emory is ranked #22 nationally (tied with George Washington University), I assume all the people who are bothering to bash it go to the top 21? Did you get into your law schools because of your professionalism and kindness? I assume you're at least in your 20s... and no one ever taught you about being diplomatic, kind, and, well, professional? Do you really have so much free time that you go out of your way to post here and *try* to make other people feel bad about their choice in law schools? It's interesting that you post anonymously. You will certainly have colleagues and superiors who did not go to top-ten schools - I wonder if you will say these same things to their faces?
Everyone:
I don't mind saying that I am in the BOTTOM 25% at Emory Law and I got a job at Big Law for next year. In fact, I was the only person in the office (middle six-figures, 500 attorneys), to get an offer after the summer program ended. The firm does not even have an Atlanta office (but does have NY, Chicago, LA, Europe, etc.) and came to Emory to recruit.
By the way, if you're wondering, I have no connections (friends, family members) there whatsoever. They liked me, and attending a top 25-ranked school didn't hurt.
Cant even get into Texas!
Hey, Liz, aren't you late for your 1L Torts seminar at (insert TTT here)?
Emory Law Comments Clusterf@#k to 300 posts!
Fine, then...
I'll do this myself...
300 posts!!!
300 POSTS?! THIS... IS... EMORY!!!
EMORY LAW RULES!
I am a firm believer in questioning authority, perhaps to the point of being radical, but the criticisms here are baseless and absurd.
First, I stand firmly beside Dean Brokaw in her concern for privacy and in her want to inform a student of a potentially inflammatory situation. Although I was not there, I am fairly certain that the situation did not reek of hostility or unnecessary suspicion. I'm sure she was suspicious. Wouldn't you be if you were sitting on the other side of the table from someone who had already shown that they were interested in presenting an unfavorable view of you?
Next, Dean Partlett's speech. Honestly, I don't remember it, but I'll take for granted that he said what is noted above. Certainly the Dean is not the most captivating of public speakers and he tends to deliver his speeches on the slower side, but this is only evidence of incompetence if that was what you had in mind before hearing him speak. Inappropriate, maybe. Incompetent, no.
Lastly, to use patio furniture and artwork as evidence of administrative incompetence is as ridiculous as it sounds.
If you want answers, ask. If the answers aren't sufficient, say so. Just because someone chooses not to disclose information, or is not at liberty to, does not mean that there is a conspiracy afoot.
I wonder if Mr. Phillips has bothered to contact the former Dean. Perhaps he could get the information he so desires from her. It seems he is more interested in causing a disturbance than getting answers.
TDB at 9:09: "When my mother was a 3L at Emory Law, someone stole one of her exams and replaced her grading number with his own. Once he was caught, he was allowed to retake the exam, graduate, and sit for the GA bar.
So much for promoting ethical conduct."
****
When your mom was at Emory? Like what, thirty years ago?
_____________________
emory2L at 11:46: "whats with all the emory bashing? do you people honestly come online to bash other schools? thats pretty pathetic."
****
ATL newbie. Yes, that's why people come here. It could have been a Vanderbilt article, and people would have posted "Vanderbilt has a law school?" and "Who is Vanderbilt?"
11:05 = Evan Kline.
You can tell by the diction. And the Brokaw sycophancy.
If you all is the future of the profession, God help all of us. "You kids from the 80's are always complaining about labor pains, but cant' show anyone the baby"....Nas
The best part about this whole thread, for all the Emory bashing and whatever, is that one person, Mike Jungman, had the balls to post under his own name. Not even the originator of all this bull $@*# Mike Phillips, who supposedly was doing for..., had the gall to put himself out there in a forum that might matter (not that I give the internet that much credit) and say what he meant. Hats off to Mike Jungmen, for making the internet a better, more honest place.