FIRST!!!!!!!!

there needs to be a separate Chicago bonus thread at some point

They'd better not stiff their associates like C&B did.

We're going to get PAID!!!

7:28 - Covington & Burling paid market to its New York associates.

7:34, C&B gave its associates the shaft in multiple regions.

It already exists - Greedy Chicago.

7:34, you're right. Don't I feel like a boner!

7: 40 -- Did they ever! I would think LONG and HARD before working there.

I just heard that K&E are raising in addition to bonus announcement on wed.

K&E associate, what is the rumored bonus structure?

K&E sounds like a good firm. I mean, trolls wouldn't troll for a bad firm, right?

7:46: Seriously!!!?

"For associates in the New York office of Kirkland & Ellis, this Wednesday is when they'll learn their financial fate"

Associates in the New York office of Kirkland & Ellis will learn their financial fate on Wednesday.
or

This Wednesday...

Bonus=Lube

Probably a lot more generous than that other Chicago-based firm, MWE, which doesn't think its associates are special enough to merit a special bonus. Or meritorious enough to deserve a market bonus. Or deserving enough to get market-salary adjustments applied retroactively. Any positions open at K&E?

I heard that K&E associate takes the "ociate" out of "associate". You heard me.

I encourage all my fellow C&B associates to email the partner in charge of the NY office, Harry Bahls, to complain about the firm's failure to match.

i can't stand it any longer.... if someone doesn't raise soon, i am going to have a heart attack!!!!

Lat... what's the deal with JOnes Day NY... have you received verification?

Associates in the LA office found out their bonuses today. I haven't talked with an associate yet who had a "below" market bonus; i.e., a bonus below the amount designated by class year in the Cravath announcement. I've seen a range of $5k - $70k above market so far.

I think 7:46 is blowin' smoke. I've heard no such rumors.

for someone who decided to quit biglaw to become a blogger you sure troll incessantly for your old firm.

I hate it when people in non-NY markets bitch about bonuses. $160,000 in a non-NY market is the equivalent of anywhere from $200,000 to $300,000 in NY (depending on whether you are in LA or all the way down to some southern bs city).

KE DC told most associates their numbers this evening. Payment is on Friday. No salary bumps beyond normal yearly increase, but bonuses well above NYC market + special for everyone I talked to. I was well above, even with an "off" year in terms of hours.

9:28 - topic discussed ad nauseum. You're an idiot.

9:29 - What's an "off" year?

9:29 doesn't work at KE. He/She is just blowing out smoke through a-hole into yours.

Hey 9:31, do me a favor, go fvck yourself.

All this talk about K&E rarely giving out below market bonuses makes me laugh. Do you guys really think an associate getting shitty/mediocre reviews and a crappy bonus is going to go around bragging about it? Of course not. They're going to 1. not talk about it, or 2. mumble something about being with class, then change the subject. Use some common sense.

Looking at the partners' perspective, they have absolutely no incentive (beyond the usual retention/recruiting issues) to give 'everyone' above market bonuses. Why on earth would they do it? This myth about everyone at KE getting huge bonuses is ridiculous, lawyers can be really dense sometimes.

9:45 - bitter much?

And associates with "shitty/mediocre reviews" don't generally make it to bonus period. They get asked to leave long before that. Reviews are in the summer, with bonuses not being paid until December. Plenty of time to get rid of them before they have to pay them.

it is my opinion that k&e associates are the most annoying of any in the industry. the firm does good work, and i've liked the partners i've met, but i always dread having conversations with k&e associates. all of the worst people in my class went there, and it is literally the last firm i would have considered. and for all the k&e trolls, i work at a v5 so i'm obviously not jealous of your firm. i seriously have no ax to grind, and i honestly do not understand why k&e'ers are so unpalatable, but that's always how i've felt.

also, i should have said v6. i actually do work at a v5, but i believe the line should properly be drawn between simpson and cleary.

For the life-destroying sweatshop hours at K&E, they ought to get a ginormous bonus. But it still doesn't bring their hourly wages up to market.

Best evidence I've seen so far that Chicago isn't getting special bonuses. No email = nothing to explain.

8" of snow and ice. I'm moving to LA.

COCK AND BALLS!

2150 hours. $25,000 over market + special. and i don't have to live in new york, much less work there!

Dechert Memo:
"We are pleased to inform you that... Sorry. We haven't decided yet. Still split. Undecided. Can't make decisions quickly. Failure in leadership? Who knows. Who cares. Should we give you special bonuses? Don't think so. What would you do with so much money anyway? Stop acting like spoiled children. Go get a life. Wait a minute... After careful consideration, we are pleased to inform you that... Sorry again. Too scared to move. Don't be upset. We see the light. Don't you?"

jones day ny- whats the word?

GA GA GA GOOEY!

Any confirmation on what C&B are doing? I bet they'll make a ballsy move. Their managing partner is pretty cocky from what I've heard.

9:52 - If you are rated below the class, you are not eligible for a bonus, and you do not go up a year in salary. They don't fire you, they make you want to leave.

10:48 Dechert is going to do what they do every year - look for a way to peg their shit-ball bonuses to the lowest possible target, and then tell their associates that it is comparable to a "peer firm."

Even though they have some talent in some areas, the firm sucks because they treat their associates like shit.

"9:52 - If you are rated below the class, you are not eligible for a bonus, and you do not go up a year in salary. They don't fire you, they make you want to leave."

It's my understanding that you DO go up a year in salary even if you're below class. How sure are you on this?

9:45 - Kirkland has a bonus grid that it shows the associates each year. It goes by year, by hours level per 100 hours. The money per 100 hours comes down significantly at about 2300, so it reduces financial incentive to work more than that. Plus there is a extra bonus of around 5 to 20K depending on your year, on top of the hours-based bonus, if you are rated ahead or top of the class. Overall, it is a very good bonus system for most, and it is pretty transparent within K&E.

9:54 The practice group, office, or the individual don't matter, huh? How do you think they get all 800 associates to act the same way? And how do they turn them all from obnoxious associates to pleasant partners? Wow, that's amazing. I hope your firm knows how to do the same when you're up.

People who need to use words like "clearly" and "obviously" (9:54) when they are trying to make a point sound more like 1Ls or TTT lawyers than V6 associates.

Good point, 12:13. 9:54's post is pretty weird in its hostility and overuse of modifiers.

"all of the worst people in my class went there"

All of the worst people? I seriously doubt that for any firm in the top 100.

"and it is literally the last firm i would have considered"

Glad to know that it's not just the last firm, but is "literally" the last firm.

"i'm obviously not jealous of your firm."

"i seriously have no ax to grind"

The lady doth protest too much. Res ipsa loquitur.

11:37

FYI

The grid they show us breaks up bonuses by 100 hours. According to the partner who gave the Chicago talk last year, however, the actual bonuses are based on 25 hours blocks.

Ok, enough is enough. Can we just end the bonus talk once and for all? Or as a compromise can we have a moratorium on bonuses until LEWW is up to date? LEWW is like 4 weeks late.

No. Enough is enough, when I say it is. It is enough once we hear from OMM. So shut your pie hole.

11:46, you make a good point that my comment sounds too broad. but isn't that inevitably the case when describing an impression? i'm probably only basing my judgment on about 15 associates that i've met from k&e, maybe 13 of whom i thought were douches. it's entirely possible that others are fine (and i have no idea why the partners typically seem cool), so you might argue that my sample size is too small. but that's what i have to work with, and it's been consistent at least for that group. obviously, others are free to draw their own conclusions about the firm and/or its associates.

12:13, fair enough, but i never used the word "clearly."

12:31, it's good to know that you not only doubt my assertion, but that you do so "seriously." your point about me protesting too much is fair, though. i was just trying to head off accusations of k&e envy, of being a sidley associate, etc. i guess that's the downside of over-emphasis.

2:04 - great post. can you take my exam for me tomorrow?

JD NY paid bonuses. Regular and special, although some people did only get regular because they did not make hours

sounds like a meritocracy - good for K&E - and the real partners can still make major cash

lockstep is communism

As an unmotivated 3L heading to Chicago (but not to K&E, having turned down its summer offer), none of this bonus hype is hitting home. I'm thrilled about the firm I'm going to, including the salary, and I view any "bonus" as just that: icing on the cake. Of course, I realize that I may change my tune once I'm sitting at my desk for at least 10 hours a day (and as about four months of billables cover my annual salary).

Right now, I'm mainly hung up on the fact that K&E 3L's received Chicago pizzas!

C+B associates - heard you really took one (or two!) across the chin.

any JD associates in Chicago with anything to report?

8:30, you'll care the second you start. Same amount of work, multiples less bonus doesn't make for many happy people.

...Sidley?

10:18: Yup. Everybody says it won't bother them until they see friends from law school with a down payment in hand after a fewyears of bonuses.

Now, if K & E is on a curve, does that mean a certain number of associates simply cannot get a bonus every year? That's tough.

I interviewed at K&E (got an offer, but turned it down only because I didn't want to be in Chicago). The associates I met with were really nice. And as others have mentioned, the partners there seemed much nicer than most. Plus one of my friends from college works there, and he's certainly no douche. So, although I've heard the douchebaggery rap before, at least in my experience, it wasn't borne out.

I benched 290 this morning before the sun came. Then I had quick, cool shower, toweled off and headed into the office in lower Manhattan, where I fired off emails to clients I've never met in person who don't know I can bench press THEM.

290 is pretty good. I bench 285, and it used to be 340 when I was on steroids. Ahh steroids...

guess how much I can bench press. i'm friggin' huge. especially after i drink V8. that's right.

9:28, my firm's billing rates are the same no matter which city, and we work the same hours as our NY office, often for clients in NY, why don't I deserve the same money as a NY associate at my firm? Our overhead has to be lower here because space costs less, so maybe I should get more money. It's not my fault you picked an expensive city to live in.

9:28, my firm's billing rates are the same no matter which city, and we work the same hours as our NY office, often for clients in NY, why don't I deserve the same money as a NY associate at my firm? Our overhead has to be lower here because space costs less, so maybe I should get more money. It's not my fault you picked an expensive city to live in.

============================

Because your salary is part of that "overhead" you mentioned was lower in your city. Firms don't pay associates based on how much profit they make from them, they pay them based on how much it costs to attract them to their firm. That amount is typically lower in cities outside NY.

It's confirmed - K&E numbers are big again this year.

8:30 am - "sitting at my desk for at least 10 hours a day"?? Um, make that 14 buddy

11:42--Confirmed in NYC only or other offices, too? Last year was the only year in the past 10+ where all K&E offices were on the same bonus grid as NYC.

11:31 PM--You do go up in base salary, but at less than the full amount. You are also told that you should find something else to do b/c you aren't going to be welcome for too long.

9:14 PM--Are you including the special bonuis in the Cravath numbers?

Anyone--Care to speculate on K&E NSP bonus numbers?

K&E pays more than all NYC firms except Wachtell?!

Why would anyone work at Cravath?

haven't heard anything about bonuses yet. what offices are announcing?

Cannot speak for NY office, but can confirm that Chi is well over market. 2,400 hours and bonus was more than 30K higher than the combo bonus+special in NY.

I haven't heard a peep on bonuses.

ANY NEWS ON MAYER BROWN OR GIBSON DUNN???

9:54, why draw a line btwn simpson and cleary?

2200 hours, ahead of class ranking, bonus was equal to NY (special + hours based) combo for my class.

If 12:10's numbers are correct, I say god bless.

K&E associates can have the extra $30k (and the extra 300 hours over what I billed in getting lockstep NYC bonuses)

12:10's numbers don't seem to square with 12:20's numbers.

8:30 - save your post and then take a look at it a few years from now you naive clown. It's all about the bonus my friend.

...so has anyone at Sidley gotten a bonus check yet? Not sure why the letter stated they'd "begin distributing" on Monday....

Either 12:20 is lying, or Kirkland bonuses suck this year. I'm guessing that 12:10 is more likely the real Kirkland associate.

Kirkland pays an extra bonus for ahead of the class rankings. If that ahead of the class ranking, plus respectable hours only matched the NY lockstep, then K&E would have taken a huge step back from last year.

If my bonus only matches NY lockstep, I'll be disappointed.

What the hell is an "ahead of the class" ranking if it isn't number of hours? Is it really fair to compare same-class associates who work for entirely different people on entirely different matters? Seems like a cut-throat environment ...

12:10 is telling the truth. With class ranking, 2400 billable, 25K over NY lockstep bonus for my class year.

2400 is extremely low for K&E.

12:59 - You are right. It is much better to pay everyone the exact same amount, regardless of how much they work, or how they perform.

1:25 - check your facts. Assoc. average is in the 2100 neighborhood.

Is there any word on whether the bonuses for the K&E offices outside the US will match (or come close to) those for NY/DC/LA/SF/Chicago?

Have they in previous years?

With class ranking, 2050 billable 90% of NY lockstep bonues for class year

1:43 ain't in NYC. So K&E has returned to the two-grid system (or the NYC-floor bonus, if you prefer). How pissed are CHI/DC associates?

Gee whiz, based on how they behave when times are good, I'd hate to see a K&E who's "pissed."

yeah, i still haven't heard anything

my phone's been silent

1:28, you don't actually believe the numbers management tells you, do you? Try talking to your colleagues. Associate average is *way* above 2100.

I would estimate that the actual average billables (in this office at least) are more in the range of 2500-2600. 2100 is a joke.

With class, 2000 hours, 85% of NY for class year

ok, it looks like I have my meeting scheduled now, so the process appears to be off the ground

2:12 and 2;17,

The *Corporate* associate average is well above 2100. Taking into consideration specialists and litigators, the overall associate average is closer to 2100.

Silent here too so far, but heard they've started letting people know.

Incidentally, 2100 is not that unusual for a lot of K&E associates. Really depends on your area of practice.

radio silence here (but i do know other associates who have heard and can confirm that the numbers posted above seem accurate).

You people are nuts 2500 hours. I say the average is 2100 or less.

K&E CHI -- 3rd year; 2250 hours; ahead of class; $72,000 Bonus

Nice try, 2:41 summer associate/law student. I appreciate that you're cheerleading for those of us who actually work here, but give me a break. Did you not notice us all going back to the office after your Saturday afternoon golf events?

with class, 2300 hours, NY (including "special") market plus 5K. And no one tried to tell me it is "special."

These numbers don't sound that spectacular. 2:43, for instance, bills 2250 and is "ahead of class," and only gets $7k more than the most incompetent slacker 3rd year associate gets for just showing up at a market firm. How is that "well above market"?

2:46,

Whatever. I probably sit on the same floor as you. You go to the office on saturday? Ever hear of K&E Remote.

2:46 - Unless the equity partners are lying when they give their annual financial presentations at the Four Seasons in Chicago, average associate billable hours are closer to 2150 than 2500. Contrary to perception in certain quarters, Kirkland is not a "sweatshop." That being said, there is no doubt that a subset of Kirkland lawyers work far more than 2150. Those lawyers are compensated through the above-market bonus structure.

re: 2:46--K&E NYC has traditionally had lower average hours than Chi and DC.

3:01, you could call it lying. They are also including slow start-up time for brand new associates' September/October/November, as well as people who leave mid-financial year. That obviously brings the averages way down. If any law firm is a sweatshop, Kirkland is. But if that's what you want, it's better than Skadden -- at least Kirkland lawyers are smart.

2:57: The $72K is in Chicago, where that is well above market bonus for a 3rd year associate at most firms.

Kirkland is so much less of a sweatshop than other NY firms I have worked for in various capacities.

3:05 - You are absolutely correct about the inclusion of new associates and mid-year departures. I should have noted that in my original comment. Even conceding your valid point, though, would average billables rise to 2500 or 2600 if you excluded new associates and mid-year departures?

Billed 2050 hours, ranked above my class, bonus was $5k above Cravath bonus and special for my class year.

Billed 2050 hours, ranked above my class, bonus was $5k above Cravath bonus and special for my class year.

Billed 2050 hours, ranked above my class, bonus was $5k above Cravath bonus and special for my class year.

3:08, does K&E pay higher bonuses to its NY associates than its Chi/DC/SF/LA associates?

3:57

Last year, no. This year, probably yes.

2:57, because they're in chicago and getting paid higher than ny market. How many NY associates would bill 2250 and be above the class?

4:11 - class ratings are not tied to billable hours. It's not uncommon for a person to be rated above (or even at the top) of their class and bill 2,200 hours (NY, Chi or any other K&E office).

I don't understand why anyone in NYC would get more in total bonus than any other associate, all else being in equal, in another city at a firm that does well. billing rates for most associates at top firms are the same regardless of whether they are in ny, boston, dc, chi or west coast. someone please explain it to me. hedge funds won't pay you more just because they're based in nyc or greenwich as opposed to boston; they'll pay you more if they make more money. for all the stupidity within lockstep big law comp, it's even more stupid to argue that nyc should be paid even more.

K&E grid is hours worked and then whether you are "top", "ahead" or "with class" (and small % lower than that). PERIOD. FULL STOP. What office you are in DOESN'T matter.

Ok, so if what 4:57 says is true, then 2:57(1) is right. There is nothing spectacular about these bonuses. They're at or below market unless you're a star who bills a lot. You'd be better off at a NY "market" firm doing crappy work, leaving early, and clocking in at 1900.

Ok, so if what 4:57 says is true, then 2:57(1) is right. There is nothing spectacular about these bonuses. They're at or below market unless you're a star who bills a lot (in which case, you're *very slightly* above market ("market" meaning what you'd get to bill 1900 hours of below-average work at, e.g., Cravath, Debevoise, Skadden, etc.)).

at what ny "market" firm, 5:06, is one able to do crappy work, leave early, and clock 1900 hours while still retaining one's job?

4:57--So, you're saying that some K&E NYC associates are going to be below market while being rated with the class and billing over 2000? UNpossible!!!

There may be the same grid, but there will be a bonus floor for NYC associates (assuming full-time, full-year and rated with the class) that is equal to NYC market, including special bonus. Count on that.

The non-NYC partners will repeat "it's the same grid" as a mantra, but is it really, if NYC has a minimum that doesn't apply in other offices? I think NOT!!

5:06 - Yes, you could argue that you might be better off at a NY market firm clocking in at 1900. On the other hand, if you are a corporate associate at a NY market firm, your hours are likely to be well above 1900 and, under K&E's system, you get paid for those hours rather than being stuck in a lockstep structure.

4:23, presumably management at most firms has determined that they need to pay x dollars to recruit and retain the associates they want in NYC, but (largely due to COL differences) need only pay x-n dollars to recruit and retain the associates they want in non-NY offices. Not so baffling, is it?

Whatever, 5:10, you get the point. Let's say "average" work (for that firm), billing 2000-2100. Happy now?

I think we can all at least agree that this statement from Lat is completely unsupported and wrong:

"Even for average K&E associates, as opposed to top performers, they're typically well above-market -- some of the highest in all of Biglaw (even if not at Wachtell levels)."

From all the numbers posted here, "average K&E associates" receive *at or below* market, not "well above market."

5:30 - Historically, that statement has been true. However, this year appears to be unique because of the "special bonuses" doled out by Cravath et al. in NY. Lat goes on to qualify his statement to reflect the fact that this year is sui generis: "But in light of this year's "special" bonuses, how will the K&E bonuses stack up to the top tier New York firms? Check back later in the week to find out."

In any case, as a senior associate, I am not going to complain about a six figure bonus. Even for a lawyer, that seems a bit greedy.

Wow. Hard to believe you people are lawyers. You really think K&E is below market?

2:57(1) has it wrong. According to 2:43, a K&E 3rd year who billed 2050 and rated above the class got $72k. That is NOT $7k above NYC market, it is $17k above market (market with special bonus for class of 05 is $40k + $15k = $55k). So a low biller at K&E beat the market by 30%.

Figure it out, dumbasses.

*2250*, so sue me.

I was thinking 2:43 was a class of '04, which are considered 3rd years by bonus standards this year.

class of '04 is 3rd year. and this person not only billed 2250, but was also "above class." conclusion: at least this year, K&E is below or at market unless you're a high-billing star.

figure it out, dumbass.

I love it when idiots like 5:43 get all self-righteous and condescending and then make a huge error that shows that they were exactly wrong and the person they were calling a "dumbass" was exactly right. An '04 associate's *third year* ends in 2007. That's the year for which these bonuses are being paid. Get it, stupid?

So the 3rd year billed 2050hrs and got $7K above the NY special bonus rate. How can anyone scoff at that? And that's actually below-average hours at K&E. The avg is usually around 2200hrs, I think. THEREFORE, the 3rd year associate in question would have made FAR MORE than the NY special bonus rate had they simply been at the average K&E hours.

Whoever argues that they just want to be the guy who bills 1900 hours, puts in minimal effort, and gets his/her lockstep bonus is a disgrace to the profession. Don't be a lawyer if that's the kind of attitude you have towards work.

5:06 and 5:30 You can parse it and hate on K&E all you want, but I worked 2300 hours and made 20K more than my counterparts at your firm. I would LOVE it if all of the K&E lawyers who want to do 1900 hours of crappy or average work a year leave here and go to your firm. Where should they send their resumes?

Spin it however you want, but the bottom line is that lots of associates at K&E made more this year than EVERYONE at the same level at your firm.

I'm a K&E Chicago associate with 2400 hrs last year and an above