Now that's what I call a bonus.

OMM modification to their bonus structure?? When Santa Claus comes flying out of my butt with his reindeer.

2400 hours -- $55k -- Class of 2006

Someone got jacked this holiday season, and it wasn't KE!

2400 hrs -- with class rating -- $70K -- Class of 2005.

Hey, look, a Kirkland thread!

Now, imagine if you will, Sidley associates posting about their super- duper-mega-bitchin'-bad-assness in THIS thread.

I know, I can't even imagine it either. Such acts are the exclusive province of (very well compensated) Kirkland associates.

This makes me sad.

The "Big 3" in LA better be paying attention . . .

Class of 2003: 2050 hours = 20K.

Any JD Chicago news?

You know... the average billable hours in NYC is supposedly 2100, which theoretically nets you $45K at market.

In the other thread, an NYC associate indicated that 2450 gave him or her $55K.

Then the extra 350 hours netted them an extra 10 grand, for a pre-tax amount of $28.57 per hour and a post-tax amount of close to $17 dollars per hour.

I'd prefer the extra 30 hours per month or 8 hours a week...

2150 hrs -- with class rating -- $48.5K -- Class of 2006

2150 hrs -- with class rating -- $48.5K -- Class of 2006

These numbers don't seem that impressive yet. What gives? Let's here more news.

I came across this site via Dealbreaker, and I just wanted to say if I was working 2400 hours a year, I wouldn't be bragging about a $215,000 salary. That's a pitiful return.

But it is amusing how you all fall for the bait.

6:09 -- What we're starting to see is a division b/n the top firms that can handle the bonuses and the pretenders like OMM.

If Latham significantly exceeds OMM (which everyone expects), then the "Big 3" in LA is officially over. OMM isn't keeping up in profits or pay. Firms like Latham, Kirkland, NY firms etc. have beaten them.

5:59, I'll take my 2100 hours and my $45K and you can keep your 2400 hours and $55K.

If I see anyone below 2200 with higher than 45K for Class of 2006, then I'll actually be impressed.

2025 hrs -- $70k -- 2004 (West Coast)

agree with 5:59. 55K for 2400 is not that exciting.

2006, <<1800, with class, $30k.

JD Chicago came through, and huge. The No-Bonus rap is finally dead and burried. Not NY special, but approaching NY market. Don't know if they're Chicago market, since no one else seems to have decided what the market is yet. Still, after a long drought, this is sweet vindication. Plus, I don't have to work with Kirkland ASSociates.

JD to market - woo-hoo!!

what do you get if you want to bill a reasonable number of hours (ie: less than 2100?). I don't care about people who bill 2400. 2400 hours = no life

trader--It's worse than that--it's 2400 billable hours, which, even at K&E, is at least 2550-2600 hours of "work".

By the billable hour standard, your annual hours "worked" approximates zero, you mindless gambler SOB.

6:39 --

More details please! Year? Did you bet a bonus in the past? Are you pulling my leg?

6:29: These folks are only really "bragging" relative to other law firm bonuses. Just like whatever you earn per year is nothing compared to Warren Buffet.

Chief Justice Roberts only makes around $212K. What a "pitiful return" for him. If Chief Justice Roberts was smart, he would work in finance/trading like you do!

Uh, I call b.s. on JD Chicago getting NY (non-special) bonuses.

A big fat steaming pile of shit. That's what you get. You, my friend will be another 6-7 associate bitching that you were passed up for partner even though you "worked hard and were well liked." Your lazy son, you will never make it.

If Chief Justice Roberts "were" smart.

6:41--what bucket shop do you work/hope to work at? They must make a practice of telling you to cut your own time. 2400 at K&E (in any group where 2400 is genuinely attainable) is E-Z. Roll 185 in normal months, make up for it with a couple (or a few) big months. It's the guys billing 3000+ who have no life.

6:41--what bucket shop do you work/hope to work at? They must make a practice of telling you to cut your own time. 2400 at K&E (in any group where 2400 is genuinely attainable) is E-Z. Roll 185 in normal months, make up for it with a couple (or a few) big months. It's the guys billing 3000+ who have no life.

Class of 2006, <1700, $30k.

Yeah I see that the salaries all seem fairly similar, so whatever discrepancy exists is relatively minor. But I just don't know of any other profession/career where you bill 2400 hours (and apparently work 2600+) for 200k. It's obviously not a bad living, but the year-end salary sounds more impressive than it actually is, considering the hours required.

6:38 is clearly the smartest person at Kirkland. *That* is good money -- $190k to work literally nine to five. Congrats!

Amendment: 6:50PM is the smartest person at Kirkland. Work literally 9-4:30 and get $190k.

Yea, how do 6:38 & 6:50 still have their jobs? I guess you forst year you're not expect to do too much.

Looks like 6:50 is the smartest person at Kirkland. For crying out lout, you could punch me in the stomach for 1700 hours/year for $190k.

6:52 said "But I just don't know of any other profession/career where you bill 2400 hours (and apparently work 2600+) for 200k."

Seriously? How many 25 year olds in America even make $200K?? Not a large percentage, I assure you. There are tons of people in America who work very long hours, and multiple jobs, and don't get paid anything close to $200K -- some of them much older than 25. And remember, $200K is just for a first-year associate. It goes up a nice amount each year.

Put a firm of people like 6:50 (1&2) together, and you officially have a sweatshop. 2400 is "easy" and you don't start suffering personally until you hit the 3000 mark? Thanks but no thanks. At that point Trader is right -- you're an idiot to give up that much of your 20s and 30s if it doesn't mean you can retire at 40.

y2 - $60K total

Give me a break, 6:58. The universe of professions to which 6:52 was referring is obviously the universe of professions that your undergrad classmates would actually work at (or my undergrad classmates, anyway). The lawyers are undoubtedly the hardest working and poorest in my group of friends from undergrad (and we have debt to boot).

How many lateral positions are open at Kirkland Chicago, exactly?

6:17 - better than the near-minimum wage MWE provides for hours worked beyond the target.

Seriously, who can tell me how many associates and "income partners" (i.e., associates without healthcare) K&E Chicago might be able to absorb this January?

Any confirmation on the JD Chicago claim? That would be interesting/suprising.

Having sat in on the K&E meeting, I can tell you that the high first year bonus was in the 80s, there were people in years three through six in the 100s and the high sixth year bonus was in the 160s. The point is, that while working those kinds of hours obviously stinks (and who would want to), at least you get paid for it

Ohhh. . . I wish I were a K&E associate
that is what I'd really like to bee-eee-eee
'cause if I were a K&E associate
I'd be no longer f*ed by MWE-EE-EE

JD. Good hours. Good evalutation. Bonus letter: "Go Fuck Yourself". This firm will never be market.

The Chi JD claim was a cruel joke.

I call BS on 6:39 as well. They probably paid something (which is more than can be said for JD DC) but doubt it was close to NY market.

Did they say anything about base salaries for next year?

"5:59, I'll take my 2100 hours and my $45K and you can keep your 2400 hours and $55K.

If I see anyone below 2200 with higher than 45K for Class of 2006, then I'll actually be impressed."

These comments don't really make any sense to me. As long as you are reasonably competent you still have the option of 2100 hours and $45K at K&E. They aren't stiffing people who are at normal hours with average reviews. The point is, at K&E you have the OPTION of doing more. And as you should know, at a NYC firm, sometimes doing more isn't even optional at all -- but if you get on a hell case and wind up billing 2400 against your will, at least you'll be compensated for that.

I just don't see how anybody can say this is a WORSE system when all but a handful of people are getting at least market. I guess if you plan to coast through doing shitty work and below average hours it's probably not a great place. But for the vast majority of people, the bonus is at least as good as it would be elsewhere, and possibly better.

7:01: I disagree. The only other people that I know who are making more than $200K at age 25 are in finance. And even then, not all of them, just the ones that with "good" positions, such as associates at major banks. And on top of that, the people in finance are working *longer* hours than most lawyers that I know. I don't think that being a lawyer is such a bad gig.

K&E 2003, 2250hrs, $104,000

@Magliovelli - nothing about base salaries for next year... no bump.

Based on water cooler banter, associates in Chi that billed 2250 and were with the class (i.e., the majority, at least in corporate) received a bonus equal to Cravath regular + special (which goes a long way in Chitown). Higher hours, higher rating, higher bonus. Several people in six figures in years three and up.

I would doubt hours are any lower, on average, at any other big firm. At several pretender firms, I'm sure they are lower. Their associates certainly seem to have plenty of time to come here and whine about the fact that their firm is screwing them.

Bottom Line - K&E killed it for the third year in a row. I don't think a single associate here would complain.

Now DLA must increase their bonuses.

sucks to work at Cravath....not even #2 in compensation, and Wachtell hours to boot!

Who cares about DLA. A complete non-factor firm.

7:23, that's not disagreeing. I don't have any friends from undergrad who did anything other than finance or law. The bankers all work less or the same and make more. And they were pulling in six figures for three years while I was shelling out $50k a year to go to HLS. What other professions are you talking about (because I don't know anyone that works in them)?

traders pwn all in compensation for their age.

after i save $300k in biglaw, maybe i'll try something risky like that.

7:23,
I just don't really get how anyone can buy into a system that rewards you primarily based on how much time you spend at the office. Your firm might as well just put handcuffs on you until the day you leave. I'm much more in favor of merit-based pay, where results matter over face-time. But then again, you guys are virtually guaranteed a bonus just for showing up, and I'm not.

I guess there's arguments both ways. It's just interesting how law firms calculate bonuses/salaries in a way that is unique to the legal world.

Either way, enjoy the bonuses!

Trader, here's why the bonus methodology distinction makes sense. Excepting contingency cases (which are a small fraction of large law firm work), law firms only make money by selling lawyers' time. So the amount of time an associate bills is directly related to the amount of revenue that associate brings to the firm. So while an exceptional trader can bring in more revenue to a bank in half the time as his colleague (and thus merit a higher bonus), an exceptional lawyer cannot.

7:38, I assume that you went to HYP for undergrad, but even there a lot of people do journalism, medicine or political jobs that pay far less than finance or law (even for individuals who are as talented). These must be the other professions that the other guy is referring to.

what do the sixth ye...i mean "partners" make?

300K? 325K?

7:38 -- Examples of "other" professions include: computer programmer, accounting, consulting, doctor (though you won't finish school until much after 25), chemical engineer.

751 - a ton of HYP UG end up at shit law schools (non - top 8 or so) and are lucky to find work. No one gives a shit where you learned poly sci.

7:58:

"non - top 8" = "shit law school"?

What a fucking douchebag.

The bigger problem with 7:58's comment is that it's not responsive to anything in 7:51's post.

7:51, I guess that's right in an absolute sense, but definitely not the case for almost all HYP people I know who did much better than that.

My comment was addressed to 7:58, not 7:51.

agree with the last comment; this site is turning into autoadmit in a hurry

JD Chicago did give bonuses this year. While not Kirkland huge, they were big enough. And because it is otherwise a great place to work, there is now no downside to working at JD Chicago.

2004, above class, 2250, $79K

Again, these bonuses aren't blowing the market out of the water. 8:47's bonus is only $9k more than a middle-of-the-pack associate gets at Quinn. I don't understand why Lat's K&E bonus coverage consistently name-checks Wachtell. It's obviously not the same thing-- it's basically market (unless you're a star, in which case it's only slightly above).

8:14 --

any numbers? ... at least a ballpark?

market was $65K for class of 2004, not $70K, so my bonus was $14K more than market (basically the $80K market bonus for the class of 2003). And I'm in a considerably less expensive market than NYC ...

8:55,
Quinn has that stupid pay 1/2 now pay 1/2 in June for the special bonus. It should also be noted that K&E is not referring to this bonus as "special" so it can potentially be used as a baseline bonus for next year. But I am sure that every firm is planning on giving these special bonuses every year (sarcasm)

This doesn't seem to be much higher than OMM's CA/DC bonus for the same hours worked.

JD Chicago bonus very real! I was a total non-believer until today when I got my letter. From what I can tell, members from all classes getting substantial bonuses. Since many Chicago firms have not announced, it is hard to say exactly where we lie in market. I can say from reading the board that JD paying more than Sidley.

Got letter today. Received bonus. Definitely not K&E huge, but sufficient. I know you want #'s, but reluctant to do so because of firm's policy (because bonus is not set by class, it would not be difficult to identify associate).

wtf is up with people saying they don't think it's a significant increase above market? this is ATL where even an hours requirement or vague "performance-based" language in a bonus memo gets a firm tossed into the TTT category.

where's Fratstud when you need him: guys in my high school used to get $10-60k above market all the time....

Those of you who billed less than 1900 hours and got a bonus of 30k or so cannot be serious.

At my firm (Howrey) 3rd year associates who billed less than 1950 hours got no bonus and the distinct possibility of being shown the door in a few months.

Jesus, my firm sucks.

JD CHI --

Do you think this is a new trend, or merely a parting gift form the departing office managing partner?

How do you know others received bonus in other classes, etc, if nobody talks about it?

this is all well and good for junior associates, but what do midlev...i mean "partners" at K&E make?

250K? less?

9:40, it's not a significant increase above market. Unless you're "above class," you get market. Why is this so difficult for you? Wachtell pays "significant[ly]" above market. Kirkland doesn't. That's not to thumb my nose against Kirkland -- it and Quinn appear to be the only non-NY firms that even met market. But I just don't see where you're getting "significant" from. The "market" (set by Cravath) is just really high this year.

class of 2006, 2025 hours, $42,000.

9:59 -- see 6:03 above. Unless I'm mistaken, that is higher than what a Class of '05 billing the same (or even higher) hours at Cravath makes.

Almost every K&E Associate that has given information so far has been Chicago ... why, when claiming that this is not significantly above market, are people comparing the K&E Chicago bonuses to the NY Market? I have heard that K&E bonuses do not differ by market, but is that true this year as well?

Tomorrow will prove whether McDermott is in the same league as Kirkland. If MWE Chicago bonuses are anywhere as bad as what people have been fearing, it will hard to keep a straight face the next time we listen to firm management.

Chicago is TTTland. K&E is a sinking ship.

JD CHIs - you don't have to give exact numbers. Just compare them to JD NY (regular + "special"). Were they at least close to NY regular?

By not providing #s or ranges, you all at JD are screwing yourselves by letting the partners continue to get away with the "black box" bonus structure. And who knows, those at JD Chi could very easily find themselves in the same boat as JD DC next year.

9:59, with all due respect, you should re-read the numbers. Most of the comments beat the NYC market and most of them are "with the class." For example, you have a 2005 grad, with the class, making 70k. That is 27% higher than NYC market. You have a 2006 grad making 55k. That is 22% more than NYC market. Even at the low end (first years with the class) the number is 8% higher. I would say 22-27% more money is "significant."

No stubs for 2007 class.

Will Paul Hastings pay its NY Associates the Special Bonus?

lol stubs

10:06 - no, the KE NY bonuses are higher than those paid in KE Chicago this year (i.e. same hours, same rating = higher bonus in NY than in Chicago). Not a huge difference though.

e.g. 10:02's numbers are Chicago numbers, in NY, 10:02 would have gotten somewhere around $45-50K

Cock & Balls always pays stubs.

Got a call-back and offer at Kirkland Chicago (didn't take it), no call-back from McDermott.

What gives?

"partners" at Kirkland (mid/senior associates) receive around 350k (give/take 50) after bonus.

100. Yeah. It's official.

i'd just like to say that this is one of the best comment discussions in a while.

"Got a call-back and offer at Kirkland Chicago (didn't take it) ... What gives?"

"What gives" = you made a very poor business decision.

11:22 -- I didn't want to be in Chicago. That simple. You don't even know where I accepted.

11:22 -- I didn't want to be in Chicago. That simple. You don't even know where I accepted.

Don't think bonus is gift from parting management. Think old bonus structure (nada) is departing with old management.

Only difference between K&E NY and other offices is that they set a floor for NY junior associates to make sure they stayed level with NY market. Otherwise associate bonuses were calculated the same way. Non-share partner base comp is consistent with same seniority associate on the NY scale. Bonuses can be more significant (first year NSPs - class of 2000 - got as much as $200K this year).

Mmmm....Special K.

Sidley sucking it up full blast. No biz even being in the same breath as Kirkland when talking about Chi. Jesus we suck.

Sidley's revenue and profit numbers are nowhere near Kirkland's, and haven't been any time in recent history. Why would anyone ever have thought they were in the same league? Believe me, no one outside Chicago ever thought so.

Jones Day DC associates must be idiots. Who would ever stay around there? Why would anyone work there? Is this where associates go who are i) stupid, or ii) without other options?

Has to be the cheapest firm on the planet. Have fun in that buidling in the middle of nowhere. Nice work environment!

10:29, I hear you, but I agree that Lat's constant reference to K&E's "legendary" bonuses is a little absurd. It's especially odd coming from Lat. Wachtell's bonuses, which are consistently at least 400% of market, are "legendary." K&E's just aren't. I had never even heard that they were slightly above market until this year. Every law student (even before this blog started) is and has always been aware of what you get for selling your life to Wachtell.

Doesn't matter whether Sidley's profit numbers are the same. 2000-2400 at comparable billing rates should equal at least remotely comparable yield to the associates. Remember, associates are the donkeys who don't share in profits.

I really don't care that we are well behind Kirkland. I do care that we are behind OMM, Katten, Ropes, others. I bet we come in behind sheppard mullin for c sakes.

Cadwalader paid bonuses to associates who fell far short of their billable reqs last year (think 1800). Sweat shop my ass, maybe maybe if you get sucked into their corporate or capital markets group.

10:29 and 1:00 - Top associates in my class (2002) got 160, compared to NY market 95. Sure not everyone gets that big, but almost everyone in Chicago gets a NY bonus, and lots get a good bit more. Say what you want, the bonuses at the top are pretty great.

Wachtell is in a league of its own, no question about it, but Kirkland is a great deal. I am at a V5 and I think if I could go back I would have gone to Kirkland, not just because the average associate there gets 15K more, but also because striving to get the above class designation would be a goal to aim for and would give a reason to work so hard. I am surprised that none of the top law firms takes the Kirkland model; obviously most lawyers are egalitarian, risk-averse, etc., but I would have thought there would be enough of us that at least one V5 or so firm would follow this model.

2:08: "Top associates in my class (2002) got 160"
I call bs. Top of class, 2600 hrs = $140k. I don't know who is claiming to get 20K more but they only got there billing over 3000 hours -- which means they won't have time to spend the extra 10k after tax.

I am not complaining but let's get real. There's no need to pad already good bonus figures just to make the NY crowd feel bad about their lock step bonuses!

2:08: "Top associates in my class (2002) got 160"
I call bs. Top of class, 2600 hrs = $140k. I don't know who is claiming to get 20K more but they only got there billing over 3000 hours -- which means they won't have time to spend the extra 10k after tax.

I am not complaining but let's get real. There's no need to pad already good bonus figures just to make the NY crowd feel bad about their lock step bonuses!

2:08: "Top associates in my class (2002) got 160"
I call bs. Top of class, 2600 hrs = $140k. I don't know who is claiming to get 20K more but they only got there billing over 3000 hours -- which means they won't have time to spend the extra 10k after tax.

I am not complaining but let's get real. There's no need to pad already good bonus figures just to make the NY crowd feel bad about their lock step bonuses!

2:08: "Top associates in my class (2002) got 160"
I call bs. Top of class, 2600 hrs = $140k. I don't know who is claiming to get 20K more but they only got there billing over 3000 hours -- which means they won't have time to spend the extra 10k after tax.

I am not complaining but let's get real. There's no need to pad already good bonus figures just to make the NY crowd feel bad about their lock step bonuses!

No one feels bad about those locksteps bonuses when they're getting them for 2050 hours a year, which probably a majority do. I'm glad you get more if you bill more, I'd just rather not work in the K&E environment, especially during a slowdown, as I don't like cutting other people's throats.

Also, please press post only once. I'm sure its hard to think at 6:04 AM after billing 2600 hours this year so its understandable. However, I do pity the client you were working for last night.

So, a Jones Day bonus recap:

NY: Market

Chicago: Apparently pretty good

SV/SF: Competitive enough that there are no complaints.

Washington: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

This needs to be addressed -- and soon.

I STILL call b.s. on JD Chi getting "pretty good" bonuses. Since when?

Look -- JD Chi is getting some sort of bonus. I'm not at all sure that JD DC would even know how. But they could still prove the world wrong.

what is with all these derogatory comments about law firms on this site?

turning into autoadmit very quickly - only postive, warm and fuzzy comments should be posted!

what is with all these derogatory comments about law firms on this site?

turning into autoadmit very quickly - only postive, warm and fuzzy comments should be posted!

the JD comments are worthless without numbers. after years of getting nothing, you could just be wetting yourself over $500.

your silence only lets the partners avoid scrutiny. if the bonuses are good, they should want you to shout about it. if the bonuses are lousy, public pressure may help squeeze more out of them later.

if you're worried about outing yourself, why not provide ranges?

$500!!! Is that before or after taxes?

To establish any kind of bonus "market" in Chicago, we first need to weed out the outliers. Kirkland bonuses simply aren't part of the analysis (despite the fact that in all other regards it occupies Tier I, see below). Nor are Skadden's; I am ignorant as to PH and Latham bonuses in Chi (all three occupy Tier I in all other regards, though I'm sure there are some folks in Chi would readily dispute this). In the City of Big Shoulders But Not Terribly Big Bonues, there are basically at least two, if not three, bonus tiers ("?" denotes uncertainty as to bonus tier):

I

Sidley
Mayer
Winston
Jenner
Katten ?
JD ?

II

MWE
MWoods
DLA
LLordB
BellBL
Sonnenschein (sp?)
GT
BCave
others...

III

Q & B (?)
Holland & N
Reed Smith
SWeaver
SHardin (?)
Foley (?)
Arnstein
Schwartz Cooper
BF
DMorris (?)
BThornburg (?)

other...

C'mon people. There are 170+ attorneys at JD Chicago. You aren't going to out yourself by merely providing a range.

JD NY Regular + Special if you made your hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you JD posters are weak. pony up some details, or crawl back in your hole. I can't believe DeepDish put them in group I (even with a ?) based on this flimsy, numberless commentary.

I wouldn't put JD in any tier until I hear at least one number from one person.

It's like the frickin' SS there. If you don't put some pressure on the management, it could be back to peanuts next year.

Like others have said, Jones Day associates would be happy to disclose if their bonus met or exceeded the market. The reasonable conclusion from all the secrecy is that Jones Day is a step behind everyone else when it comes to compensation.

Katten clearly belongs in tier I, as our bonuses are typically more than Jenner and Winston, but slightly under Sidley and Mayer. This year, the bonuses should exceed Sidley's (if the postings on ATL are accurate) and may exceed MB's (given their problems this year). In other words, Katten may be #2 behind Kirkland in Chicago this year. we shall see in a month or so.

Deep Dish, add S.Shaw to Tier III.

Revised:

I

Sidley
Mayer
Katten
Winston
Jenner

II

JD ?
MWE