awful place to work . . .

So I hear from just about everyone.

The more I see that ad for I am Lawsuit Abuse, the more I am convinced that those pants are indeed worth $54 million.

Render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's.

When I see "Cesar" all I can think of is using calm assertiveness to stop your bichon frise from chasing cats, (or something to that effect). Now roll over.

That place seems like a total sh**hole.

That's an extremely long email. Too much effort to hide the salary message.

Also, "developing economies" usually refers to what we used to call "Third World" countries, not to India, Russia, Israel, China, and Brazil. Ethiopia? Developing economy. China? Developed economic gargantuan; unstable, to be sure, but immense and beyond "developing" nonetheless.

CHEAP!

I don't know too many cats that would bother running from a bichon frise--how to get cats from chasing your bichon frise might be more like it.

What about law firms that "recommend" a "donation" to the law firm's PAC, a recommendation included in the year-end bonus check? I know of a few... and it's annoying.

Developing economies such as "Israel?" Are you frigging kidding me?

This firm has like a 30:1 partnership spread. It is the worlds largest eat-what-you-kill law firm and a real shithole. 15 years ago it was a Miami firm with big dreams. Now it is an international firm with small dreams.

4:24 Sort of like the mandatory GT pro-bono fellowship deduction from each paycheck.

1600 LAWYERS! 25 OFFICES!

And yet still not very prestigious.

"We will need to maximize the leverage that our platform provides."

Require more billables out of our associates.

Is this firm better at high-stakes, cross-border transactions or bet-the-company litigation? (T5 looking at V10).

When I need a big time lawyer, I seek out a graduate of Miami-Dade Community College.

4:26 --- just to ask what you mean by that post? That its a 1st rate economy, or you don't think its on the same level as those?

4:49,

What I mean is that whether or not Israel is comparable to China and India, and whether or not it is in its own right a 1st rate economy, it is most assuredly not a *developing* economy.

1600 should go down to 1200 after an e-mail like that. Basically we don't care what everyone else is doing, we are not matching.

And don't forget the sexual harassment / discrimination lawsuit involving that sleazebag in the NY office.

This is like a ritual for GT. Years ago I heard the NY chairman tell the associates they should be happy to be at a firm that stays competitive by managing its costs, presumably because we'd otherwise be out of jobs. So, I left.

Classic.

David, that e-mail, with your commentary, made this by far the best of my four visits to ATL today. I'll be the first associate to admit that I never could have made something like that up.

Damn, GT is so worthless. At least with all their locations they can get more walk-in clients. Maybe they could also add drive-throughs? I know that I've never heard of a client using a telephone or the internet to hire my firm from another city, state, or even country.

Good luck with your "collections," guys.

Any GT associates care to comment on internal reactions?

4:27 - what does "30:1 partnership spread" mean?

1) "We can not waste our resources."

associate compensation = waste of resources

2) Summary of the Entire Message: Our PPP has skyrocketed in the last few years, and we ain't going backwards. In order to keep PPP up, we cannot pay YOU more and we'll need to work YOU more. Just to make sure you work as hard as associates who make more than you at other firms, here's an ambiguous promise that we will reward you.

3) Message for 2009: *Copy and paste. Get secretary to change 2008 to 2009 and 2007 to 2008.*

6:05, it means the lowest paid partner makes 1/30th of what the highest paid partner does. Basically, it's a pyramid scheme.

Better path for T5-->V10: corporate department doing high-profile cross-border transactions or litigation department doing bet-the-company lawsuits?

These partners are so pathetic. The concern about costs and client objections could be solved by freezing rates. What this long email says is simply that they have no intention of redistributing a dime of income within their firm, no matter what the market does. That's their right, of course, but why try to sugar coat it? Just say "we've decided we want to make millions, and if it means denying associates a $10 or $20k raise, then so be it."

Yallz just jellous!!!11

Are you sure this email wasn't written by the author of the horribly complicated O'Melveny bonus memo?

6:42,

Are you referring to the same consultant who also advised MoFo to "match" by just raising its bonus thresholds and paying everyone the same?

So glad to be at a better firm than GT. So, so glad. Market pay and bonus never felt so good.

6:09 -- The better path is whichever you like more.

what are the ppp at GT?

PPP

1999: http://www.law.com/special/professionals/amlaw/amlaw200/amlaw200_ppp.html

2005: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=373243&forum_id=2#5254661

2006: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=563047&mc=57&forum_id=2#7412059

2002 looks to be the big jump year...

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1116579910432

The OMM memo wasn't complicated. Here's the recap:

RETREAT IS AT THE PASADENA RITZ, BEATCHEZ!!!

6:07, what's the partnership spread like at other firms? aren't most partnership structures at law firms like pyramid schemes?

PPP

1999: $605,000

2001: $690,000

2002: $985,000

2005: $1.07m

2006: $1.2m

7:17,

Most, I'm guessing more like 1:10. I know of at least one Vault 50 firm that is 1:6.

1:30 is way out of wack, though, so I'm not sure if I believe it. Let's put it this way, assuming Cesar makes $4m a year (about four times the PPP), the lowest paid partner makes about $135k.

The place is a pyramid scheme, and you know who is near the top by how much they speak or write. How about the mandatory charitable contribution, which goes to the miami office of united way, where mr cesar is on the board. where does that money go?

more gt cool aid.

Most top firms have partnership spread below 1:10. A first year partner might make $800K, and a senior partner might make somewhere north of $5M.

What a shithhole. I interviewed with this firm and regret even doing a callback with them. All the lawyers seemed crazy unhappy (couldn't even put on the happy face for recruiting) and offered to allow me to take a deposition on my first day out of law school. Perhaps they can't make a profit because their malpractice premiums are too high?
I withdrew from consideration as soon as I got home from the callback.

This email exposes GT for the sweatshop we already knew it was- I'm sure any potential recruiting will take a dive.

$800k seems insane for a first-year partner at almost any firm except the V5 and Kirkland. Are we including non-equity in all of this?

$800k in profits sounds about right for a first year partner at the NYC lock-step firms. Also, most of these do not have non-equity partners.

I went to a recruitment party at GT earlier this year and must say that this email has an EXTREMELY similar tone to the speech that Mr. Alvarez gave. GT was the only firm that seemed to acknowledge itself as a factory rather than a provider of services. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but when trying to sell yourself to the top 2-L's in the country (many of whom have been employees in the past) statements to the effect of "we are as successful as we are because we purchase smaller firms in other cities" tend to be a turnoff.
As I am sure many of the younger readers of ATL know, as redundant and seemingly forced the recruitment process is, it does give some insight into who is running the firm.

Basically, GT seemed to officiously explain that "being entrepreneurial means being bigger than everyone else." I think this email is more of a sign of the firm saying, "we are too big for the market, now shit will change, but look at us as a leader rather than a struggling business."

I agree with 8:35.

I saw a presentation on law firm economics by Bruce MacEwen of Adam Smith, Esq. where he broke down law firm costs: ~65% is salaries and benefits, ~26% is rent, and ~9% is everything else (including IT, marketing and business development, insurance, and associate recruitment).

Which category do you think GT will look to cut in bringing costs "under control"?

I hate every law student on this blog that thinks the pressure on salaries is a good thing. You should all come over to my nice apartment that I never get to see and wait around until well after midnight when i get home, at which point you can service me while I nod off to the two or three hours of sleep I'll inevitably get.

Honestly, where do you NYC to 190 folks (who all have to be law students, or else they wouldn't refer to the base salary as the most important) think this is going? Do you think giant corporate law firms know the old adage about blood and stones? They don't. They will grind you all to dust. Just keep asking them for raises, they'll keep telling you to bill more.

Brilliant.

GT tries to bill its numerous offices as a strategic advantage, when in reality, it serves more as disservice to itself and its clients.

By keeping offices in Albany, Tallahassee, and Bumblefuk, the firm is contributing to the exact problem they are trying to defeat: extra "costs in the legal industry." Brick and mortar in unneeded locations in so 2007.

Exactly, 11:35, unless those offices have drive-through windows, or Sonic-style drive-up parking lots.

I have to say, Lat, any other day and this would have been a guaranteed comments clusterf**k. Everyone's just too busy working and not checking ATL. Maybe tomorrow it will heat up.

I know I'll still feel like ripping on GT tomorrow . . .

I'm pretty happy at GT... for what it's worth. Sounds like everyone else here is just interested in a "dump of GT" party though, so party on.

The longer the e-mail is, the worse the news probably is

12:01 AM, No you're not. Quit lying to yourself and to us. Admit it. NO ONE is happy at GT. NO ONE. Even Cesar is miserable and one stiff drink away from suicide.

Anybody else think the e-mail's poorly written?

I too am happy at GT. I genuinely like all of the shareholders and other associates with whom I work. Everyone seems very savvy. The clients are top notch and the work is interesting. I have no trouble making my hours. Everyone at the firm has a good work ethic and very few have a baseless sense of entitlement. I have no complaints.

Happy at GT = GT HR Troll, and probably a pirate too

This guy really did go to community college. Unbelievable.

Because GT isn't known as a prestigious firm there isn't much the associates can do about not being paid market rates (i.e. lateral somewhere better). It may happen in rare circumstances, but not likely unless it is a small jump up. The firm is really a large midsize firm, with midsize clients, and it can't afford to act like, or pay like, a biglaw firm, although it pretends to be. I have no idea how the firm has PPP over 1 million considering it has almost no leverage from associates and doesn't get the big money-making cases. It could be a lot worse though, we could be unemployed like the L2Ls of the legal world or paid less so there's not much use in whining.

Reading these comments makes it so clear this board is filled with people who think that since they went to law school they're entitled to 190k to start and that's it, end of story. Making 190k will require long hours, almost every weekend, and an insane amount of stress. And for all the prestige-focus, most of the people on this board will have lateralled down the chain to the firms they make fun of within 3-5 years of burning out, if they can still stomach law firm life at all.

I find it hard to believe it's 30:1 - that means that junior partners are making less than first years?

Guys in my high school used make believe they were happy getting shat on. It was no big deal. Now they make believe they're happy partners at GT.

Thank God I didn't join that firm.

I echo 10:41. I'm sooooo glad I didn't end up there. The people with whom I interviewed were miserable. I'm sure I would be too at this point if I had ended up there.

As an incoming GT summer, I'd actually like to hear a real GT HR response.

GT is really unimpressive from across the table. They have good practices in specific subjects in certain locations, but the vast majority of their lawyers are long on bravado and lame style and very short on substance.

Two things, kids.

1) This just shows me exactly why every headhunter I have spoken to for the last three years has been telling me about "a great opportunity with a NY office of a great Florida-based firm with a wonderful atmosphere." It also shows me I was right in passing.

2) Why do you posters (11:25 is the latest example) continually refuse to understand basic principles of supply and demand? Firms pay more because they have to--they must be strapped over a damn barrel to be paying the comp they pay. It is OUR MARKET right now. Screw their hours demands. If you choose to give away your time by billing more than the bare minimum, that's your choice. This minimum is not the unofficial billable requirement they make up, or the official minimum provided to NALP but the minimum that you can work without getting fired. Depending on the firm, the gap could probably be as much 4 or 5 hundred hours between what is unofficially encourage and what will be tolerated. Upward pressure on salaries is good because we get more money and, unless you are the charitable type, nothing is required in return.

Firms raise billing rates every year - what is it that you think clients are getting in return for the higher rates?

The MTA is going to hike fares. Do you think there will be more frequent trains or nicer subway cars?

Gas prices are up. Do service stations give you free tires now to make up for the increased cost at the pump?

Partners can ask you to do more, they doesn't mean you have to give it. Their model is built on leverage--they are selling other people's time. They can't sell your time if they fire you and they can't replace you easily or else they wouldn't be paying you what they are paying you now.

The Miami Office gave out bundles of cocaine as a holiday gift.

Cesar's e-mail is in the classic GT style, instantly recognizable by the bad writing, rah-rah cheerleading, Amway-style motivational jargon, a multitude of largely meaningless stats, and -- at its heart -- a threat. The only person who outdoes Cesar in this category is the NY office head, Rosenbaum (see Lat's post re GT Euro partners for the timeless "stop-spreading-negative-energy" e-mail). The firm is a big, depressing, miserable factory.

GT should close most of its domestic offices and open one in WV. They can then pay way less due to the COL and near-source their work to the WV office. They can offer lower rates to clients while getting a bigger profit margin off of the time. That is really the next way to extend the tenure of the billable hour model.

GT is a resoundingly awful place to work.

To all those who doubt the partnership spread, it is absolutely true. GT is all about origination. If you have a big enough book, they will shower you in cash. This is how they recruit a few top partners every year b/c they will pay the big dogs more than the lock-step firms.

30:1 seems about right. There are a few partners there that probably make $8 million. That means the lowest paid partner would be at $266,000, which is very believable with their great "platform" of having offices in Albany, etc.

The other great thing about the comp at GT is that it is a giant black box where only one person (Cesar) determines virtually anything. It is all about bringing in business. It is truly every man for themselves.

so if you can bring in lots of business, GT might be a very lucrative option.

Wouldn't that system theoretically result in less dead weight than other large firms?

If the comp. spread is true, then making partner there is pretty meaningless. You will make more at some mid-sized firm in Phoenix as a mediocre partner. Most of their partners have to make way, way below the average PPP. For every partner at GT that makes $8,000,000, there has to be about 10 partners who make $266,000 to bring the average to $1,000,000. It would be interesting to see what the median partner compensation is, rather than the average.

Eat-what-you-kill generally results in less "dead weight" but creates an every man for himself mentality too. It's hard to get partners to agree to market for the firm generally or make thousands of dollars in charitable donations to improve the firm brand when the guys making bank don't care about the firm as a whole. Basically, it is great for the people at the top, you just don't want to start at the bottom. I used to work at a 100-person firm that was eat-what-you-kill. The partners didn't know each other, and it eventually imploded because it was really just a bunch of lawyers renting space together. The politics got crazy and it went south fast.

2:54,

Agreed. I have seen this in practice, and it does not work very well. I think most firms have settled on something in between the two extremes (eat what you kill vs. a black box popularity committee) whereby the method for determining compensation is heavily weighted toward collections and client origination but there are also incentives for "soft" factors, such as recruiting, training younger lawyers and marketing.

1:32 is dead-on. And it about sums up the "wonderful culture" that Cesar keeps citing.

"The Miami Office gave out bundles of cocaine as a holiday gift."

Classic.

I wonder what White & Case will counter with?

Don't for a moment think the associates are the only employees affected. Remember all those little people who support the firm too.

Maybe people at other GT offices have complaints, but I like my colleagues, get substantive work opportunities, and have not had a problem not working weekends and taking vacations and holidays off. I also haven't had to respond to emails at midnight or Sunday night. I make less money and get less perks than I would at other biglaw firms, but I have relatively less stress, less document review, enjoy working for some partners, and more time for a life after work.

Ditto to the 1/6/08, 7:31pm This place is FAR better than the last BIG lawfirm I worked at. Stop hating!

Plus, there's a lot of talk about a "mandatory pro bono donation" taken out of each check. But it's not "mandatory" if you actually do pro bono work. It's a way to encourage us to do the pro bono work that we are all ethically obligated to do anyway, and what is the best way to encourage lawyers? You guessed it. Once you've done "x" amount of hours of pro bono work (and let someone in accounting know you've done this) you are reimbursed for all of the money taken out in one lump sum.

The Miami office is not bad. Many of the good looking (female) junior associates have cushy regular hours -- several don't even get into the office until 10 or 10:30 am, and put in maybe 8 or 9 hour days at most. Nonetheless, corporate and real estate groups have been hit hard in the last 5 months. While Associate salaries may be on track, by the end of the 2nd quarter there will be many Associates who will be on the street. Rumor has it that a house cleaning will target lesser productive 3rd to 6th year lawyers (except the lesser-producing but good-looking female associates, at least in Miami, anyway).

You are all $$ whores and drains on the economy, innovation, and humanity in general.

A wise man once told me: "there's an inverse relationship between the number of laws (and lawyers) a country has and the intelligence of its people".

And on that note, thank you all for your existence.

You are all $$ whores and drains on the economy, innovation, and humanity in general.

A wise man once told me: "there's an inverse relationship between the number of laws (and lawyers) a country has and the intelligence of its people".

And on that note, thank you all for your existence.

The GT building here in Miami has a huge lighted sign on it (similar to the Met Life one in NYC). Parts of the letter T, R and A aren't working right now. Reads something like URig. Cesar seems to be rigging things. Glad i didn't take that gig.

GT NY is short on work right now. Rumors are spreading that wholsale layoffs are in the works.