Let me be the FIRST to bet that britney offs herself before 3/31.

I can haz Prezidency now pleaze?

Sophisticated, cross-border transactional work or bet-the-company litigation? (T5-->V10)

T5 -> V10 is my new favorite troll.

The social liberals who betrayed the Republican Party by supporting the cross-dresser are now reaping what they sowed. We are all worst off by Romney's lost, thanks to those who wanted to take out the Christians from our coalition.

Bet the company! Bet the company! Come on, 7-11! Daddy needs new shoes!

Mormons = Christian? LOL.

They are closer to the church of practicology. A hat full of golden tablets with angel goggles to read them? That shit is crazy. Apostles in Utah? What did Jesus like to ski?

That would be great if Huckabee wins the presidency. A guy who does not believe in evolution is going to shape important education initiatives. Sweet baby Jesus. Will we have to stop learning about dinosaurs, too?

"A hat full of golden tablets with angel goggles to read them?" All religions have nutty beliefs -- but that does not make them invalid or lessen their importance. I mean, Catholics are said to literally eat the body and drink the blood of Christ after mass. That's right up there with Scientology's imbedded alien matter.

All we need is a president who wears magic full body underwear. Creepy.

9:58am: we do it during mass not after mass

9:58 is right. Anyone who is part of a major religion has no business making fun of Mormons. It is all just UFO's and Hocus Pocus.

9:58, at least there's 2000 years of history behind it. Maybe 2000 years from now, people won't think it's odd that God lives on the planet Kolob.

9:52, you forgot the special Mormon underwear.

10:15, at least we can get a dose of pseudo-Mormonism by watching Battlestar Galactica. Glen Larson even named the mythical homeworld of humanity "Kobol", after Kolob, and there are lotsa other Mormon elements in the show.

As the Mormons sing ---

If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward with that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, through all eternity,
Find out the generation where Gods began to be?

Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, where Gods and matter end?
Methinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space,'
Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place."

The works of God continue, and worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; there is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; there is no end to race.

There is no end to virtue; there is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; there is no end to light.
There is no end to union; there is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; there is no end to truth.

There is no end to glory; there is no end to love;
There is no end to being; there is no death above.
There is no end to glory; there is no end to love;
There is no end to being; there is no death above.

9:58,

I can't believe I'm defending Catholicism but they don't "literally" eat or drink Jesus' body and blood. If you think about what the word "literally" means, your statement doesn't even makes sense. It's all symbolic. I do agree, however, that all organized religions have some beliefs that seem crazy to people on the outside. That’s why I’m a former Catholic. Buy hey, I don’t have a problem with anybody believing anything so long as they don’t hurt anyone or force their beliefs on others.

10:25,

You're wrong. The bread and wine are indeed considered the literal body and blood of Christ once it is consecrated by the priest. Remember the doctrine of transsubstantiation from your CCD classes?

Those Protestants who practice communion believe that it's only symbolic - that is, they follow the doctrine of consubstantiation.

I can't believe I'm debating the meaning of communion on a law blog...

Ormer Catholic - doesn't the doctrine of transsubstantiation hold that the wafer and wine literally transform to body and blood, i.e., more than mere symbolism? Hell, what do I know, I'm just a Jew with some Catholic friends.

Lat, for god's sake, wake up and start posting. We are being tortured by meaningless religious masturbation this morning.

Fomer Catholic - doesn't the doctrine of transsubstantiation hold that the wafer and wine literally transform to body and blood, i.e., more than mere symbolism? Hell, what do I know, I'm just a Jew with some Catholic friends.

OBAMA! It's morning in America. :) I'm not feeling a drop of cynicism today.

Key point - as long as you don't force your beliefs on others, I don't care what you believe. This is where Huckababy falls off the cliff. See his comments on the need for a christian nation, freedom requiring religion and vice versa, etc.

The guy is either whacko himself, or pandering to bible-belt evangelical whackos, or both.

Obama is going to sweep the primaries, kick Giuliani/McCain's ass, and start mopping up the mess left by GWB & co. Enjoy the next year, Lat; the days of Federalist Society dominance are coming to an end.

Oh, and all religions are equally stupid.

Hmm. Actually, I didn't really pay much attention in CCD classes. In light of this new information, I have to agree with 9:58. You Catholics are crazy.

I dig that Mormon song. Very positive. Do I have to quit smoking, drinking, and donate 10% of my salary to that Utah choir group if I become a Mormon? Not so into that.

Vampire Golfer --

Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God? That's crazy. Turning water into wine, walking on water, raising others and oneself literally from the dead? That's all crazy.

Either you have faith in things you can't completely understand or you refuse to. It makes no logical difference whether the act that requires faith to believe occured 2000 years ago or this morning. Unless, of course, you don't really believe in that stuff at all, but are comfortable with the stories because they are kind of nice -- and really old.

10:31/Jew with Catholic friends is right.
Former Catholic/10:25 must not have paid attention the day in catechism class when the meaning of Communion was taught.

"Either you have faith in things you can't completely understand or you refuse to. It makes no logical difference whether the act that requires faith to believe occured 2000 years ago or this morning. Unless, of course, you don't really believe in that stuff at all, but are comfortable with the stories because they are kind of nice -- and really old."

So in other words, it's okay to throw logic and reason out the window where religion is involved, because it's all a matter of "faith." In any other context, this would be labeled insanity, or at least stupidity.

there is a mormon conspiracy and I don't trust them.

Huckleberry seems like a genuinely nice guy, like someone you could go have a few beers with - even though he doesn't drink.

It would scare the shite out of me that the leading Republican candidate is an ordained Baptist minister and fundamentalist Christian who believes in creationism ... except this means he's completely unelectable should he win the nomination.

Americans were willing to vote for W twice over because he seemed like a Regular Guy and didn't throw religion in your face (even though the fundies love him). But that's not what Huckabee is about. He is explicitly, boastfully religious, and that is going to turn a lot of people off. He may win the hard-core red states in the Deep South where fundamentalism is a virtue, but I think he won't go far beyond that.

I'm still pulling for Duncan Hunter (not).

I believe the moon doesn't exist, I believe that vampires are the best golfers but their curse is that they never get a chance to prove it, I believe there are 31 letters in the white alphabet.

- Mitt Nomrey

"it's okay to throw logic and reason out the window where religion is involved, because it's all a matter of "faith." In any other context, this would be labeled insanity, or at least stupidity."

This is all well-trodden ground, a subject of long-standing and lively debate over the course of hundreds of years and it will definitely NOT be settled here today. See Kierkegaard Leap to Faith and responses to that.

"So in other words, it's okay to throw logic and reason out the window where religion is involved, because it's all a matter of "faith." In any other context, this would be labeled insanity, or at least stupidity."

Common, you're a lawyer (or more likely a 1L). I never said that logic and reason are thrown out the window in matters of faith. I spoke of things that are not *completely* understood. Surely, you can appreciate this distinction. Logic and reason have a secure place in religious thought -- especially Mormon religious thought. But that only takes us so far, doesn't it. Is it more likely that something doesn't exist because you don't understand it, or that it might exist even though you don't understand it?

Think what you will about Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Methodists, Muslims, etc., but it is simply foolish to dismiss all adherants to such faiths as incapable of rational thought.

"Logic and reason have a secure place in religious thought -- especially Mormon religious thought. But that only takes us so far, doesn't it. Is it more likely that something doesn't exist because you don't understand it, or that it might exist even though you don't understand it?"

The question of ultimate existence is beyond the scope of human perception; we can speak only of that which we're justified in believing, not that which actually *is*. So the fact that God might exist is no argument for ascribing belief in the absence of evidence sufficient to support a rational belief. As has been pointed out, this is well-trodden ground, but your apparent suggestion-- that faith is justified because God *might* exist (or because we can't conclusively prove he doesn't, which is essentially the same point) is just as valid for the Flying Spaghetti Monster as it is for Jesus.

I love to see you right wing religious nuts tear each other apart. It's because ALL of you idiots are so damn intolerant! "Oh, he wears Superman underwear at mass", "Well, my religion has 2000 years of history"...Yeah, history that includes murder, genocide, abandonment, intolerance, child molestation, corruption, thievery, and helping GWB win the White House! Time to turn the White House over to an intellectual with a conscience an understanding of tolerance and one who's man enough to say like enjoyed his weed!

11:06--

Valid points.

My overarching argument is that many, throughout the history of humanity, have found reasons to believe in things they could not fully explain through logic alone. Those reasons run a broad range, and they may not all be good.

But I think most genuine believers in a higher power have found that their convictions have lead to tangible results -- "fruits" as we sometimes call them -- in their lives. This reinforces their belief that there is "something" there, "something" more than they can quite grasp. They don't dismiss it simply because they are unable to fully comprehend it.

Unintenionally funniest line of the day -- "It's because ALL of you idiots are so damn intolerant!" That's right up there with "all italians are racist."

"I never said that logic and reason are thrown out the window in matters of faith."

See, e.g., creationism.

"Is it more likely that something doesn't exist because you don't understand it, or that it might exist even though you don't understand it?"

False dichotomy. Acknowledging that something might exist is not the same as believing it exists in spite of logic, reason, and evidence to the contrary. See, e.g., creationism.

Its the kookiest ones you have to be scared of. Prostelytizing ignorati hucksters (no pun intended) like the born againers and baptists who believe dinosaur bones were planted by jews to trick us. Also the cult members like the scientolgists, branch davidians and mormons.

The remainder just display the flaw of humanity, unwilling to admit our own mortality and seeking comfort in an invisible wizard. As long as they aren't tithing us, teaching our kids intentional stupidity like ID or jamming worthless statues onto the lawns of our public buildings, its all good baby.

With Obama's victory, we are that much closer to his planned summit with all world leaders (including Sec. of State Oprah Winfrey), where they will talk through and solve all global problems, leading to a long-awaited era of world peace and stability. I can't wait. Then we can finally eliminate the military budget and spend all that money on free liposuction and penis enlargements for all.