First.

I agree with this article as a young person who is currently a 2L at a top law school. I think there was a time when lawyers had a different place in society than most of my classmates are going to have. However, it also seems in some ways that many of my classmates are content to become law firm drones as long as the pay and job security remain good. For more on this shift in the legal profession, read an article in Esquire from 2000 called The Death of the Great Lawyer. I basically think that there is simply a stratification effect taking place: just as a certain class of lawyers coming from lower tiered schools are now being hired as permanent document review attorneys at large firms, a large percentage of lawyers from top schools going to top firms are being hired simply because their resumes allow their employers to bill out their time at lucrative rates. The firm places very little interest in these lawyers' futures and their development. However, from this melee another class of attorneys arises, distinguishes itself, and occupies the sort of positions traditionally associated with the legal profession. Query whether the logical step for such a person is to go to a smaller firm full of other creme de la creme attorneys such as Bartlitt Beck, Keker, or Kellogg Huber or whether such a top gun should stay at the Skaddens and SullCroms of the world where partnership is likely more lucrative but more constraining.

This article may or may not have caught an actual trend, but the data cited (that law/medical school applications have declined) doesn't come close to proving the point. The application levels for professional schools goes up and down all the time. You would have to have a larger sample than two years.

Also, I really find the "law isn't like 'L.A. Law' or 'Ally McBeal'" thing really tiresome. Seems like every article on the disillusionment of law students/lawyers trots this out.

Only 44% of lawyers say they wouldn't recommend the profession? I'd say that's not bad!

In short, this seems like the same old tired article that seems to come out every year. That said, it does sorta piss me off how much the ibankers make. If I had known I was going to end up a corporate suit instead of the crusading advocate I thought I would be, maybe I just would have gone for goldman analyst gig out of college...

By David Lat | 01. 7.08 at 05:30 AM

that's a rather uncommon time to post.

up early, or getting in late?

either way, i suggest you take a look at this piece in today's NYT:

"Some Brand-Name Bloggers Say Stress of Posting Is a Hazard to Their Health"
at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/technology/07blogger.html?ex=1357362000&en=6d581ad566c0cc9b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

On the comment that 44% of lawyers would recommend the profession... maybe that number would be higher if more law students worked before coming to law school. I know that many of my classmates who went straight through from undergrad to law were unhappy. Lawyers who have worked before law school recognize the worth of a dollar and realize that in order to make 160K or 190K means you sacrifice your life in order to do it. Just a thought...

I've often thought that law schools should be more like business schools and place a premium on experience over grades and LSATs. Somewhat off topic but any thoughts on that?

i completely agree with 7:01 regarding the experience bit. there is a HUGE difference between those of us who worked before we came to school and those who did not. it would make sense for experience to be put at a premium, but for some reason the traditionalists want to stick with the arcane LSAT as a measure of someones aptitude for learning the law. i doubt we will see it go away anytime soon.

and before you start calling me a "TTT" i go to HYS and i wouldn't hire 75% of the people i go to school with to mow my freaking lawn, much less execute some sort of law related task.

As a patent attorney I don't work for the money. I do it for the glamor.

I do it for the free dinners on seamless web.

I suspect a majority of the dissatisfied have never worked a meaningful day in their lives prior to entering the profession. it's tough out here without mommy and daddy paying your way. Suck it up sissies.

Before you start talking about instant gratification and spoilied lawyers consider these points:

1) My college and law school debt is well in excess of 150K.

2) Partnership chances (the other side of the apprentice coin) are slim to none. Take away the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and I will ask for my money to be paid to today.

3) The relative gap between profits per partner and total associate compensation is as wide as its ever been. There is this falacy that associate raises harm the partners and it is simply not true. Perhaps that is true at firms with weaker client bases but at my firm rising associate compensation gives partners pretext to raise rates. Our fees represent a drop in the bucket relative to other transaction costs associated with the deal.

Lat, an automated post set to go up at 5:30 am is very pirate-ey. We all know the first real post won't show up untill after 11 am.

Nice try though.

PS - Who wrote you the snippet of code to do it? Was it really super easy?

Was I the only one who thought of prostitution when I read that "the older professions" line?

Don't prostitutes also bill by the hour?

I think the MDs have it better than the JDs. My counterparts who are residents making a small fraction of my BIGLAW salary complain. But by the time they're done, they will have a marketable and portable skill. Around the same time they're all board-certified and ready to cash in, BIGLAW will be spitting me out, and all the fat days of special bonuses will be behind me. In my 30s, I'll have to reinvent myself, begging for a job like AUSA so I can start building skills for the first time. Ah, the law firm pyramid scheme!

I think the quote in the article refers to lawyers who leave the profession, not because of money issues - but because of lifestyle issues. Money is a popular topic on ATL because the readership is mainly young lawyers who still need to pay off their school loans.

But once lawyers get "seasoned" and those loans are gone, an astonishing number of lawyers get out of law altogether. I am in a regular poker game consisting entirely of folks that have left the profession...

I think the MDs have it better than the JDs. My counterparts who are residents making a small fraction of my BIGLAW salary complain. But by the time they're done, they will have a marketable and portable skill. Around the same time they're all board-certified and ready to cash in, BIGLAW will be spitting me out, and all the fat days of special bonuses will be behind me. In my 30s, I'll have to reinvent myself, begging for a job like AUSA so I can start building skills for the first time. Ah, the law firm pyramid scheme!

"This article may or may not have caught an actual trend, but the data cited (that law/medical school applications have declined) doesn't come close to proving the point. The application levels for professional schools goes up and down all the time. You would have to have a larger sample than two years."

True. In fact, didnt applications spike the prior 4 or 5 years? Its natural there would be a decline.

Legal professions have declined, medical have not. The doctors graduating at the bottom of their med school classes at the worst med schools make only slightly less than lawyers graduating at the top of their law school classes at the best law schools. Not to mention that doctors still have a wow factor and occupy a societal status that lawyers have lost. These days, doctors have it much better than lawyers.

The article refers to starting the next Facebook.

Of course I would like to start the next Facebook, make millions of dollars, and be famous the world over. I'd also like to be Tiger Woods. Or Brad Pitt.

The odds of any of these things happening are remote, which is why a ton of us are in law; its predictable and (compared to most) well paying. For every 1 guy that develops YouTube or Facebook, there are 10 million who are living in their parent's basement at 37.

Actually, I don't think the article is fair to ERISA lawyers--I can and do discuss ERISA with non-lawyers at dinner parties. Everyone likes to talk about their 401(k) and their gripes about their health (etc.) benefits, and if they're old enough, you can even get them talking about Studebaker.

Not to mention that there is always demand for "arcane" ERISA lawyers. It's not Structured Finance over here...!

Maybe young lawyers would be more patient and content with learning from these partners if that is what we were actually doing, instead of reviewing documents for months on end. I am more of a factory line worker than an apprentice.

After a few years in a big firm, I question what skills I will actually have as a lawyer.

8:33,

Actually they usually bill on a flat rate system. You know $50 for a.....oh wait, I mean I hear they charge a flat rate per 'service.' I wouldn't really know.

9:04
Buck up little buddy. When all is said and done, you will have exceptional check cashing skills.

Hugh Grant
In that sense prostitution is a lot like Wachtell: they both use a flat rate system to screw you.

1- I read this article yesterday. It is an embarrassing example of the writing of the NY Times. (check out "King of Torts Article" from December 9, 2007, it is unreadable).

2- This article was written by someone who is jealous of the prestige associated with being a doctor or lawyer...aka a PROFESSIONAL

Wrong 08:52 AM.

What evidence do you have that doctors at the bottom of their classes at the worst med schools are making what the best and brightest in the legal profession are making? It's a stupid assertion; here's why:

Top Law Students can reasonably expect the following:

160k base salary at a top DC, NYC, LA, SF or Chi firm

+ bonus, which is somewhere around 50 to 70k when "special bonus" is included

+ even perhaps 50k to 250k clerkship bonus, which is what "lawyers graduating at the top of their law school classes at the best law schools" who do federal clerkships can expect (SCOTUS included).

Check your facts. You're telling me that pimpled-faced interns from University of Pheonix Online Med can expect anything approaching these numbers? I'll answer for you... no.

NY to 190!!

I know that some have been saying that this article, prominently posted on the front of the NYT website on a Monday morning, is a fact-free trend piece specifically designed to bait New York lawyers and get to the top of the most emailed list. But in all fairness, the Sense of Pride Index is down 42 points and the Inflation-Adjusted Center of American Life Scale is the lowest it's been in decades ...

Atlanta to $35k!

Lat to posting before noon!!11!

190

Do people actually go to law school expecting to litigate cases next to Denny Crane as first year associates?

If you are one of those clownshoes who wanted your associate position at Debevoise or Simpson Thacher to feel more like Ally McBeal or Crane, Poole & Schmidt, please raise your hand so I can send asscancer to you with my mind beams.

On a completely related note, any other 3Ls pissed that their firm hasn't yet told them about bar reimbursement, mpre reimbursement, and even what group they can expect to be in next year? Also, when do I get this 10k stipend?

Doctors are poors.

I knew a cardiologist at the top of his class at NYU. After graduation he made about $40k at NYU hospital. Now in private practice, he makes less than half of what I do as a senior associate ($400k).

Fortunately, he was a good person (i.e., he had rich parents) so he could afford to follow his dream of cutting people open. If you are not a good person and are born with poors for parents, you should not even consider medical school.

New website for Sidley Austin. Their last one sucked A.

9:39,

I was just in Atlanta not too long ago. There were signs for 2-3 bedroom condos, in great areas, brand new, going in the $400's and $500's. The same apartment in NY costs $1-2 million. Go fuck yourself.

BTW, your city is a dump.

It is in troubled times like these that associates turn to making videos like "2 associates 1 redwell" for the amusement of hedge fund traders and an 8 ball.

JT would also like to articulate an elitist commentary about his law school, launch a pre-emptive defense against the dreaded "TTT" accusation, wave JT's dick around but JT's current salary and year-end bonus, scoff at the "poors" who went to anything below a top 5, cure cancer, eat some pretzels, defeat hordes of infected "dark seekers" ala Will Smith, and then finally break for lunch.

JT also coached Eli Manning to his first playoff victory.

JT apologizes for the first sentence, bleh.

9:58 have you ever owned a Buckhead condominium and a convertible BMW 3 series, been named to Jezebel's Best Dressed List and appeared in over 10 major motion pictures as an extra? If not, I suggest you keep your jealousy to Atlanta to yourself.

This article severely discounts the effect of increasing New York real estate prices on the salary pressures faced by young lawyers. we want NY to 190 because we can't afford to live within a half hour commute of our offices, and we're already working 12 hour days. since New York leads the legal industry for compensation patterns, it makes sense that we want more money faster-- our salaries have declined in real terms, even with the recent raises.

10:26:

Agreed. I can't even afford to live in NYC--I commute from NJ. That seems ridiculous for someone making $170K a year.

Comments such as those from 8:04, 9:58, 10:26(2), and others are precisely the reason why I think working a few years before attending law school makes sense. Someone with a few years of experience under their belt would realize that moving to NYC after amassing 150K of debt and trying to own your own place is financially risky if not impossible. That is perhaps a financial gamble that someone in their late 20s or early 20s would not have made.

The real estate issue is a biggie. When I started, first-year salaries were still only around $100K but you could buy a decent 2BR apartment in a prime Manhattan neighborhood for $500K, or the nicest 1BR around. So home ownership in the city was within reach of mid-level associates at the top firms.

Fast forward 7 years or so and associate salaries are higher but you pretty much have to make partner to buy even a nice 1BR in Manhattan.

9:35 has it right

Enough BS about working before law school, the value of a dollar, blah, blah. Thanks, Dad. Let me tell you something about the value of a dollar that I've learned. Shortly after earn it, it's only worth 98 cents. In fact, it is constantly losing value.

Working in the "real world" doesn't help you to adapt to the surreal fantasy world of BigLaw. It may provide a benefit to someone starting their own shop, though. In BigLaw, it just makes you the chump that gets bent over by partners and then says stupid things like, "Well, I'm really thankful to have a job." Your years of "real world experience" just force you to think like a day laborer even though you are a highly educated and licensed professional.

No offense, 9:00, but I am also an ERISA attorney and the only conversation that anyone wants to have about what we do is to ask a question about their 401(k) plan or COBRA coverage when they are switching jobs. Only an ERISA attorney would be interested in hearing more. With that having been said, I agree that it's an excellent specialty if you are one of the few who enjoys the subject matter. It offers good job security, it's easy to find lateral positions if your current one sucks, and it's typically a fairly low stress practice even in Biglaw. I would imagine that the same is true for a lot of other specialty practice areas, arcane or not.

9:22, you are an assclown. There is no "University of Pheonix [sic] Online Med".

Anyway, here's the big difference between doctors and lawyers. Doctors exist to help humans by curing diseases and making sick people better. Lawyers for the most part exist to solve legal problems, which usually involves facilitating the moving of money from Person A to Person B. There is not a net benefit to society by pumping out more lawyers, while there definitely IS a net benefit by having more doctors in the nation.

Iran declares war on US

9:51 - here's a thought, why don't you ask your law firm "about bar reimbursement, mpre reimbursement, and even what group [you] can expect to be in next year"

it took my law firm an inexcusable 30 minutes to reply. the answer was equally ridiculous - submit the receipt and they will cut a check right away (for reimbursement), and 3 mos. before you start work (for the salary-advance).

they should raise to 190k for making me ask questions. we all know they don't want me to get into that habit.

10:26/10:32:

How can you not afford to live in the city? You can still rent a nice 1BR in a great area of Manhattan for under 3K.

10:50:

Let's do the math. $160k/year = just under $3500 a paycheck after taxes, insurance, etc. That's $7K/mo.
Sure, it sounds like a lot, but if you're paying $3K/mo in rent, plus maybe $250 in utilities...that's about HALF your income on rent. And if you have student loans, at all, you're talking about NO DISPOSABLE INCOME at all each month, let alone saving for, oh, BUYING instead of RENTING.

NYC to 200...or we'll all move to Austin.

11:10 should have gotten himself some rich parents.

11:16--

I definitely wish that had been the case. As it is, I work at a V10 and still feel like I'm just scraping by paycheck to paycheck. I never thought that would be the case when I was in law school...

11:10: $250 on utilities?! Breakdown, please?
.
Also, how much are your student loans each month?
.
Your expenses seem crazy, but I am willing to believe them with a little more detail.

10:47:

Huh?

"[Young people today] want immediate rewards — not exactly the mentality that will fuel a student through years of medical school, a residency and additional training for a specialty."

It's not the need for immediate rewards... IT'S THE COST!!! Especially, the ROI and oppurtunity costs. Young people today are smarter than the baby boomer generation; they understand Costs and Return on Investment. Would you spend 10 years in school and $200,000 to become a doctor and make $150K, when you can spend zero dollars and save the 10 years doing something getting seniority as a longshoreman and make $110K at the end of the 10 years?

That's a guesstimate on utilities, but think about it: $100 for cable and internet (and phone, if you want it), $90 for cell phone, $100 for heat in the winter...there's $290, just for that.

Student loans: well, on a level repayment, I owe (sadly) the full amount of my law school tuition, which works out to about $1500-$1700 a month.

So, of the $7K a month one takes home post-tax, loan repayment and rent alone would cost about $5K. Then there's groceries, health care costs, whatever. Not a lot of disposable income...

What 10k stipend?

What 10k stipend?

What 10k stipend?

longshoremen to 120!!

What 10k stipend?

What 10k stipend?

You want immediate rewards.. go into investment banking. You'll be making $500,000 by the age of 25.

If you want bigger rewards, work in banking for three years and then cross over to private equity. You'll be clearing $1MM+ per year by the age of 30.

Of course those of you who don't live in NYC will call BS on this one. But I've got close friends in the finance sector.

IP Lawyer - "I've got close friends in the finance sector."

Are you serious? That smacks of "guys in my high school . . ."

"I've got close friends in the finance sector, they used to clear $1M/yr all the time. It was no big deal."

What a pirate.

The article does not accurately explain the root cause of the problem. Here's my take:

Over the past 20 years the number of graduates of law school and medical school has risen sharply. It has outpaced the market and therefore, we end up with a fattening of the ranks of the middle and lower tiers of the profession. This, in turn, fuels a decline in how the public perceives the average person in the law and medicine professions. Hence the loss of status by these groups on the whole.

Despite the overcrowding in these professions, however, the folks at the top of the profession still command the same high status and reverence in society that the profession as a whole used to command.

11:28 - you get either a $10k stipend or a $15k salary advance from some firms to help cover your costs from graduation to starting work (or to blow in Vegas). you have to pay taxes on it so don't get too excited.

11:36's numbers are correct, but only for the very high performers in banking. It does not represent the average situation. The average kid from a state college working at a mediocre investment bank will not be making $500K at age 25. And they certainly won't get hired by a top private equity firm.

If you want to compare the top of the profession, then look at a superstar partner at a top law firm who is making over $5M per year by age 35.

You can count the number of "superstar partners" at top firms who make over $5mm by the age of 35 on one finger. My middle one.

That is an absurd assertion if you are talking about biglaw. If there are three people in that position at biglaw in the entire country I would be shocked.

11:54 -- The pay scale at many V20 firms reaches well above $5M (usually tops out around $7M). There are many relatively young partners around the $5M mark. And I'm not even counting some of the lucrative plaintiff's firms left unconsidered by Vault.

My god the NYT should just have a section headed "College Admissions/Status Anxiety". Boo fucking hoo.

11:10 - I see your point. $2000 left over each month may be a lot only if you don't want to save much, don't have any dependents, etc. You're not broke, but you're not rolling in it either. Makes me feel lucky for being only $100k in debt and spending only $1650 on rent (sharing with significant other in Brooklyn--I love it, but not a great option for everyone). Thanks for the detail.

Are you trying to bring Loyola 2L out of retirement with this post?

Unless they basically choose not to, all doctors do all right financially. Not break the bank well (with notable exceptions I can relate but won't bore you with; suffice it to say they are the doctors who use a law firm model for their practices), but generally well enough.

In short, there are no L2L doctors lamenting over making $15/hour after residency.

Lawyers have a much wider curve; many do better, but many if not more do worse.

But as my physician wife reminds me daily, doctors can do little else, while lawyers often can. OTOH, they still have a prestige factor imo that we never will.

While my generation (I'm 28) may be impatient for success, you can't really blame us. Most law firms don't expect us to stay with them for more than a couple years, there's no meaningful training on the job, and my chance of making partner at the firms I work at are very small. Perhaps the older generation thinks we are impatient, but we're simply aware of the short-term thinking of today's world. We don't live in a society of pensions and rolex watches anymore.

It's always ironic how older generations fault us for our lack of patience and loyalty, when they are the ones who have ushered in a corporate culture totally devoid of those qualities.

Status anxiety is for the insecure. First off, I-Bankers pay is tied to the market and individual performance. We've been going through a bit of a bubble, which is in the process of bursting. So the lavish pay is likely to go down. Also, it's a near certainty that a Democrat (or maybe a populist Republican whose name rhymes with "Huckatee") will be in the White House soon. At a minimum this means no more tax loophole for hedge funds, and a corresponding decline in take home.
As for lawyers, the pay is nice, but there are other factors to consider. We can put people in prison, keep people out of prison, write legislation, we are judges, senators, and cabinet heads, we influence, and all that stuff. Although one couldn't tell by the nonesense often posted here, lawyers have the sort of prestige and power I-Bankers can only dream of. Sure they have enormous tacky McMansions in East Hampton and drive garish Hummers, but that just means they're assh0les.
So if money's the only thing on your mind, you're missing the point.

I'm with you 12:48.

I am an I-banker. I buy and sell lawyers. Therefore, I am rich and you are poor.

I'm going back to dealbreaker.

Later

Fine, 11:49, if you want to take the very small set of law firm partners who make at least $5M as your basis for comparison on the law side, take the top hedge fund manager on the finance side. He made $1.3 BILLION in 2006 alone, and has cleared a billion for 3 years running -- that's 260 times what your law firm partner makes. I don't think anyone on the last hedge fund top 100 profiters list pulled in less than $250M. My 30-year old friend at Goldman has made more than the partners at Wachtell for each of the last 4 years. The comparison among the elites in the professions is not even close -- I thought this was well-accepted.

12:57 is pointing out that hedge fund managers may have to pay 15+% tax on their $200 million carry as proof that managing a hedge fund isn't that great compared to law.

We pay 40% on our $400 thousand salary plus bonus.

I love the law and all, but you = fail.

STFU 12:57. YOU don't do any of these "influential" things; YOU meet and confer and write angry letters about discovery and draft motions (or alternatively, you fight over sub-sub-provisions in agreements that you hope will make your rich, non-lawyer, clients slightly richer). And if you don't think superrich financiers become "senators, cabinet members, influence and all that stuff," you're hopelessly naive. (BTW: a law degree is not required for anything on your list other than practicing criminal law and being a judge; and also, huge heaps of money do an equally good job of keeping people out of prison.)

1:22 -- Your friend at Goldman made over $4M at age 26 at Goldman? What group were they in?

As a purely quantitative matter, there are way more millionaire lawyers in America than millionaire bankers. It's just that the numbers at the very top of banking are higher than the numbers at the very top of law. I suspect that most of the people who post here with ignorant comments implying that the average banker is super rich are simply indulging in personal fantasy.

It's all relative - the top 1% of bankers (hedge fund guys, private equity, etc.) are located in the NYC area (includes Stanford / Greenwich). If you are a NY Biglaw guy or gal, it looks like all the bankers you know are making insane money. It looks like they are making far more money than you are. However, go to Denver and it's likely that a Mid-law associate is making $135/year and the top bankers of the same age, who are doing bullshit asset/wealth management for clients with average net worth in the $250,000 range are making only $100/year. So in Denver, all the top bankers may think the mid-level lawyers are the ones making all the loot.

It's all relative.

PS - I'm a ninja. That's how I know all this.

My dissatisfaction with this work is that, after 3 years of law school, I am performing work requiring the same level of skill as the temp job I had before law school. I still pound my head against my desk, but my bank account is getting bigger. Its nice, but not exactly what I was looking for.

I'm 11:36. Yup, friends in the finance sector. Say what you want about it. Three of them are over at SAC working right under Stevie. All three are between the ages of 27 and 30. They will make anywhere between $1-2MM each this year. Their base salaries are quite low, comparable to mid-level associates at big law. It's the massive bonus that takes them way over the top.

For those trying to compare Big Law partner compensation with hedge fund / private equity / bulge bracket salaries, give it up. Unless you pick the very high end of big law partner compensation and compare it to the low end of finance, they aren't even close.

IP guy - we're not impressed that you know that SAC capital is a big-deal of a hedge fund or that you know its founder's first name.

We went to an undergrad with a prestigious b school and have numerous friends/associates in the finance world too. Only difference between you and me is that I don't think it makes me special. Exhibit number one that you think it makes you special . . . "Of course those of you who don't live in NYC will call BS on this one. But I've got close friends in the finance sector."

To quote Jesus - "Laughable, man."

Two way street has it right. If my parents' generation blames my generation for our attitude towards life, then I'll go ahead and blame them for instilling it in us.

On the bright side, when they keel over and leave us their money, we'll FINALLY get what we deserve!

All my friends from back home are elementary school teachers making $50K a year. To them, I am a god! Ok, not quite, but they are very impressed. It is all about perspective, people!

Cynic@3:07 PM,

Agree with your sentiment but not your conclusion. The Baby Boomers will leave nothing to us except a mound of crippling debt, after 30 or 40 years of mooching off of the much smaller Gen-Xer demographics. That debt will be paid partly by much higher taxes than the ones we're currently bitching about and partly by high inflation. Mark my words, it's just starting...barring incredibly leadership (heh) or incredible technological innovations in the near future, 2008 will be the start of a couple of very miserable decades.

11:36/2:16 here.

2:29 - When did I say I was special?

I provided some factual information. The preemptive defensive remark was only because of the expected harsh nature of the comments on this blog. Yours proved to be one of them.

Okay, I proudly admit I'm ignorant. Why do I-bankers have such salaries? What exactly are there usual qualifications and how many hours do they usually put in? Also, should I become one if called by a headhunter?

IP Guy - I'm in your head. I own you.

Read carefully, I never said you "said" you were special. I presented circumstantial evidence of your state of mind. Its something real lawyers (not glorified science/engineering majors) do all the time.

I have close friends in the IP sector. They said you were self-aggrandizing.

Bravo, 12:48. You're exactly right. I'm so fucking sick of people telling me that "[my] generation" wants everything and is greedy and not willing to work for a living. I work 55 hours on an AVERAGE week and am on call 24/7, even on vacation (I worked more than a full day on New Year's). I do mind-numbing yet nonetheless extremely high-stress work and learn very little in the way of the substantive law I was interested in as a bright, motivated, top-5-school law student. I never partied in college, I worked my ass off to graduate at the top of my class and get into a good school, I spent months studying for the LSAT and foregoing lots of fun I could have had in the summer between junior and senior year, I pulled multiple all-nighters in law school and took on higher-than-necessary courseloads in undergrad and law school simply because I was interested in the subject matter of the extra classes and had a desire to learn, work, and educate myself. And people are telling me that because I am dissatisfied with my current job (and current job options, which boil down to (a) make a ton of money doing awful, unfulfilling work or (b) make no money doing fulfilling work on which you spend almost as much time and energy), that I am LAZY and ENTITLED????

FUCK YOU VERY MUCH. I am NOT lazy. I am NOT entitled. I am WILLING to work hard, I HAVE worked hard, I CONTINUE to work hard every fucking minute of every fucking day. A "good day" for me nowadays is a day I actually have time to meet a friend for a drink after work and then maybe even sit down with my dog and watch my favorite TV show before I have to settle in for a few more hours of work before bed. I say "with my dog" because my busy, unfullfilling, high-stress lifestyle does not give me the time or mental energy to go out and meet a significant other.

I went to law school because I wanted to do good, I wanted to do interesting work, and, yeah, I wanted a little prestige and a livable wage. Is that seriously so fucking much to ask? Isn't this America? Aren't I allowed to ask for a reasonably happy life if I'm willing to work for it (which, again, see above, I am WILLING to do, HAVE done, and CONTINUE to do)?? How dare the fucking Boomers, who EXPECT me to work my ass off to pay for their lazy, entitled, self-serving retirement, tell ME that I don't work hard enough!!

The Boomers are the ones who deserve our wrath and indignation. They have single-handedly demolished the middle class, ruined the economy, and effectively handed over the reigns of the world to Red China (I say "Red" because these fuckers grew up during the Cold War and should have fucking KNOWN better. But no. Their greed was more important than their children's and grandchildren's futures). And they're calling us whiners because we can't afford to pay off our skyrocketing loans (brought on by increased education costs driven by the greedy Boomer mentality that billions isn't enough money for a happy life)??? Fuck. Them. Could they just fucking die already so my more SENSIBLE, REASONABLE generation has at least a tiny spark of a chance to clean up the absolute mess they've made of the world?

4:57 is dead on. Best post on ATL in a while.

"(a) make a ton of money doing awful, unfulfilling work or (b) make no money doing fulfilling work on which you spend almost as much time and energy)"

Some basic principles apply here.

1. That's why they call it work.
2. Life is not fair.
3. The nature of life is such that you work (which, by definition, is not play, not fun, and not even meant to be fulfilling) or you die. This is true for everybody, from the poor peasant in a third world country to you. I know it is hard to believe that at bottom you have been dealt the same crappy hand as every other human on earth, but there you have it.

Your rage is scary, and I feel bad for you, but I actually think you would be happier if you accepted the basic facts of life.

This is 5:14 again. I meant to add that I thought your post was hilarious--well done. I hope you got your angst out and now have a clear enough head to figure out how to change your life for the better.

4.57- Awesome.

Best. Post. Ever.

5.14- You're a self-righteous douchebag. Go think yourself better on some other blog. That has no place here on ATL. Oh wait. Yes it does. In any event, go fuck your own self-righteous ass.

4:57,

Amazing post. Dead on. What you say, of course, does not apply to transfer students.

4:57, no offense, but you don't sound like a terribly interesting person. Do you have friends? I guess not, because you "had" to kill yourself studying in undergrad instead of having a life.

I can sympathize with you for not finding the work fulfilling, but it sounds like you've made a pattern of making your academic (and now work) life your ENTIRE life, and that's just sad. Go make some friends. And if you're really stressed out by 55 hour weeks in biglaw (oh no!) and always being on call, then get your blood pressure checked too.

4:57. I get you. Work sucks; And old people suck more. But I don't think Boomers are directing their comments at you. You are the hardcore helpermonkey they all want us to be. Keep up the good work.

Fifty-five hours a week is not that bad. You should have plenty of time to go out and find Ms. Suzy-Scratch-N-Sniff.

4:57 - WHAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Guess these comments go to show there's no pleasing anybody for today's youngsters... have a life, and you're not working hard enough. Work hard, and you're a waste of human life. Hooray for Amerika!

I love how people can read "rage" from an email.

4:57- you're neither lazy nor entitled. you're just the guy in the audience who doesn't get the horrendous joke that's been played on you.

NYC to 190

maybe if there weren't so many TTTs and TTT grads, the legal profession wouldn't be so diluted so that the average joe schmoe thinks anyone can be a lawyer

NYC to 250

Lawyer v. Doctor Lifestyle, etc.

L- NYC Mid-level Big Law Ass working nights & weekends
v.
D- Suburb dermatologist home by 5 PM every night

L- Doesn't see family & kids during week

(unless sneak out back door, run through the closing subway doors, run to the railroad and through closing railroad doors and drive home to hopefully read a bedtime story - worried the partner didn't notice you snuck out)

v.

D- Eats dinner with the kids every night and greets the sweetie with a big hello and kiss walking through the front door

(drives home in 5 minutes door to door - or 1/2 hour if really bad commute- not worried about anyone missing your presence - set your own schedule)

L- 1L NYC at 150

v.

D- Pediatrician at 150

L- No time to network for own clients and seek them out

v.

D- Your job is your network for clients - they come to you

L- At 40 worthless, unless your one of the few who knows people and is rained on - pray you still have a job to make enough to pay the mortgage

v.

D- You have a following of value - no expectation of pay cut or job loss unless you get disabled

And then there's a suburb T - can make 100k-150k by time mid-level ass is making 200k plus, but unhappy if you ever get home after the sun sets, gets summers off and in the end gets a pension and lifetime health benefits. An Ass gets nothing but a hole in one's life.