And they're on Saturday to boot

Sept and Oct are common but Aug is silly

whine more, that will be a good start to your career

it would have been nice to get an email about this or something. now i gotta go check my damn mail. this freaking sucks.

whiny.

Personally, I hope to have start dates that early. Honestly, I don't need more than 2-3 weeks after the bar before I'll be itching to actually make some money.

Those dates suck, but keep in mind the sooner you start, the more paychecks you'll accrue for the stub, and the higher your prorated bonus will be. You're already selling out, so what's the big deal about a few more weeks of freedom?

It would have been nice to hear about this from the firm instead of ATL, but oh well. Won't be too bad, I was planning on starting in September anyway.

Your stub year is your last opportunity to make some dough in a low tax bracket for a long, long time. Savor it.

Whah, whah, whah. I have a job and I don't get a summer break. Hello. You're a grown up now. Stop crying and get to your doc review.

Whiny ass bitches!

"We" ?? Who is "we"?? Why are you talking in the plural???

These first years are whiny biatches. Either take the August date and make a few more paychecks and shut up or take the Sept. start date which gives you 6 weeks after the bar to spend on a beach Thailand. Isn't the bar in late July? I don't get what the issue is here.

I hope these whiners get fired. any of the fired CWT associates would love these start dates...

Exactly. Stop whining. I started working two months BEFORE the bar exam and had to work full time while "studying".

That's they way they used to do it back in the day.

definitely whiny...who cares who soon after the bar you start...

isn't all the time from graduation until the bar lik a vacation anyway, if you have to study to pass the bar you are probably in trouble already

stop whining

Better to receive notice re: start date than non-starting date.

You're a #(%*ing moron if you complain about this. You'll make about 10,000 - 15,000 more than your friends because of this start date. Why the #%@% are you complaining you ungrateful piece of #*%&?

I think 4-5 weeks of rest and travel is healthy for all newbie lawyers. Plenty of time in a career to work. Those "gaps" between phases of life are rare and should be preserved.

Folks are merely whining about these dates. I am working through the bar, and will savor the chance to maintain a solid cashflow immediately after the bar.

Lots of quality law students are having a tough time getting a job in this market, and attorneys with experience have been laid off from some firms. Quit whining and be happy you have a job with a firm busy enough to need you before October.

9/8 start date isn't too bad, but 8/11 is ridiculous. I can't believe the posters on this thread didn't or don't want to take bar trips. What a bunch of gunners.

Take some time off, go on a trip. Don't worry, you will be stuck in your office soon enough.

Jesus--think of the 3d years who have no job offers at all---they would be glad to take your place THE DAY AFTER THE BAR EXAM.

legitimate beef.

i agree with all the others - you're whiny - the Sept 8 date is completely normal - and the Aug date potentially HELPS YOU - yeah a bar trip is nice, but so is an extra $10K when you're poooooor

Just select the September 8th one if you don't want to work that early.

started Sep 13 my 1st year, and that was the LATEST they'd allow....I was the last one in the door that year. Stop your whining, put on your shackles, and get to work.

grow up. fun's over. this is the really real world. i agree w/ 2/1 11:33

Umm, 11:19, those are Mondays . . .

whiners ... don't like the terms? take another job.

I am not going to be able to afford a Bar trip anyway, I don't really care. I will need to start in September though so I can find a place to live after the Bar.

Whiny children. A September start date is common, and the earlier one offered here appears to be optional. I started in August at my biglaw firm because I have a family and needed to start making money. But then again, I didn't go directly from undergrad to law school and knew what it was like to be a grown up before I started as an associate.

Isn't it better to have the option to start early for those who want it? No one is forcing you to take the August date. It's for those who may have the need for the money sooner than others.

Unless Sidley is making their first years choose the August date, this is not a big deal. Those who want to take a bar trip (as I did) will have five weeks to do so between the bar and the September start date.

It seems like a peculiar response: people are bitching because they've been given the *option* of starting earlier.

Relucantly concur with the "whiny" faction. 8/11 is odd, but they're not forcing you to take it, and starting in September gives you plenty of time to relax after taking the bar. It's a little unusual not to allow an October start date, but I don't see how offering first years a non-mandatory start date that is earlier than most places is cause for complaint.

Are they being asked to work for free??? Christ, just hope that later this year, I don't have to babysit this whiny and clueless soon-to-be 1st year with any of his/her deals.

You've had three years off. You need 2 more weeks? Time to grow up. Enjoy your page line summaries, doc reviews, cite checking and late nights doing irrelevant busy work. Don't worry, it gets worse after that.

The August one is ridiculous and un-heard of. The September one is common, though my firm offered 3 start dates in Sept/Oct/Nov (though only post-clerks took Nov).

My wife and I both lobbied our firms to start within a week after the bar. We were broke. These guys should take it as a blessing -- especially in this market. In other words ... STFU.

Within two years after your "early" start date, you'll realize a profession selling hot dogs was more productive, enjoyable and lucrative per hour.

I think that's the point: 9/8 is a reasonable *first* start date, not a reasonable *last* one. If they want to offer the 8/11, good for them (maybe some people need the money, or fear temptation to wicked deeds during periods of idleness), but not even to have one in mid-to-late September? Lame.

Historically, while they give out two "preferred" dates, you can ask for, and receive, a later date - many associates do.

This is a legitimate complaint. You aren't always going to have the opportunity to do extensive traveling; the period after the bar is the perfect time to go on a long trip. I feel like it would be in the firm's interest to give its associates this option-- might stave off future wanderlust 2 or 3 years down the road.

11:49(1) - DITTO! Having put myself through law school and most of undergrad, I was grateful that my firm permitted me to start in August! It's not as if the August start date is mandatory.

just tell them you would like to start Oct. 15. They will say fine, no problem. I started at Kirkland this fall and politely informed them that the proposed start dates would not work for me. I started a few weeks late. Another dude started a couple months late. It's fine.

While the September date may be more reasonable the August date is insane. If someone wants to make a buck that quick after the bar I'm sure they could have asked and obviously would not be turned down.

Give me friggin' break!!! The world's getting laid off, people are losing their houses, and somebody's bitching because they have to come back from wherever in early September to go to work for buckets of money Look at it this way, the rest of the whining first graders will already be in school. Grow up. You're a highly paid professional now.

A "bar trip" is really just a long, slow route to the breadline.

Lazy poors to Europe!

Why the hell would anyone want to start working 10 days after the bar? Ever heard of money management?

In past years, Sidley LA has had associates join one-at-a-time over several months from August to December, so this seems like an effort to bring the new associates in all at once to make orientation easier on the HR folks.

To respond to all those folks who started early: good for you! However, why impose your priorities on others? Many big firms (all?) allow first years to start almost whenever, or at least later, so Sidley LA seems to be uniquely un-accommodating.

Also, Sidley LA doesn't pay stub year bonuses.

if you don't want to start 10 days after the bar, take the second start date. if you want to start later, SIMPLY ASK!

Who cares if there are people who don't have jobs? I'm sure the first years are grateful for their jobs. What does that have to do with being given such an early start date? I haven't heard of any other firm asking their first years to start 10 days after the bar. What other firms have something that early as a start date?

wow. grow up. almost all of those associates probably spent 3L year doing nothing because they already had an offer, and now they need more months off just because they took the bar exam? give me a break. it's more money in salary and bonus and if you can't handle working hard for an extra 4-6 weeks you might as well leave the profession. any of those upcoming sidley associates that are complaining needs to grow a pair and join the real world.

I am a clerk finishing in August, when should I ask to start?

This is actually directed at those who started after their clerkships and wanted more or less time as a break.

and by the way, it's 11 days after the bat exam.

Grow a pair you dumb whiny bitches. They're paying you one hundred and sixty thousand dollars a year and you are absolutely not worth even half that. Suck it up and be grateful.

wow, "bar" exam, nevermind....

Sidley's billable year (for associates) runs Nov. 1 - Oct. 31. There is no point (unless you desperately need the money) starting before the last week of October. As 12:06 points out, there are no stub year bonuses here, so you may as well come just in time to fill your plate starting Nov 1.

If you can't get a job at Kirkland, then you deserve the lousy life and bonuses of a Sidley associate.

What are the policies at other firms? If all the other firms let people start later, it's not whiny to be unhappy.

anyone who would forgoe a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to travel with friends without normal life responsibilities is a striver idiot.

my bar trip was one of the best times of my life and i'll cherish the memories forever. alternatively, you could get started on a 30-year career one month early.

They just finished a three-year vacation in law school . . . . . . . . . .

sidley doesnt even give prorated bonuses to first years?

I'D QUIT!

I'd rather have the trip than the extra checks. These dates seem really early.

How ungrateful and narcissistic do you have to be to complain about this? I swear to god, the sense of entitlement coming from these people is baffling.....

It's a bitch, though, working in the East Coast office of a West Coast firm in that you have to wait forever to start. I was broke by the time I started.

12:23: they just finished studying for the bar. i seem to remember it being kinda stressful.

but yes, the option to start in sept. is not so bad, even though most firms give you option to start as late as october or november.

Its asinine to say someone can't "handle" working in a big firm because they don't want to give up the last few weeks of freedom they will probably ever have. From what I have seen in the comments no other firm is asking people to start weeks after the bar. Why would Sidley even think such an early start date would be a good idea?

Keep in mind that people who will be clerking might not be done working at that job until Labor Day.

anyone who walks around with their mouth open is a dipshit!

September seems reasonable and maybe some newbys want to start in August, but it seems that they need an oct/nov option too. Maybe just create a 3rd start date? Not sure how expensive it is to have a 3rd training session or whatever is required. I only had about a week b/t bar and clerkship but plan to take more than a week b/t clerkship and firm.

These days, if you are the last to report your are likely to end up working with the jerkiest associates & PARTNERS FROM HELL.

Who are you people? The post-bar break is the last truly free time these people will have (unless they lateral and take a couple of weeks off). There are no true vacations in law, especially with the advent of the blackberry. This is awful.

Unbelievably whiney. I'm sorry you won't be able to travel throughout Europe on your parent's money.

You have to be kidding me. My latest available start date was Sept. 4th. Stop whining!

They can't actually make you start working, you know. And it is highly unlikely they are going to fire you before you show up. Just nod, say yes, and then a week before your start date, call in and say you are stuck in Europe and won't be back for another month.

LAT -- This post sucks. Post about JD DC.

This is pretty ridiculous. After the bar exam is the last best opportunity for most people to take a trip around the world and unwind from a stressful time period. Pretty much every firm in the country understands you will be a more productive worker if you get a chance to decompress before you start -- otherwise, you will do it on their time (which believe me, no one wants). Sidley is screwing this up.

I started the Monday after the California bar. My post-bar vacation was taking the kids to the zoo on Saturday. I still think this is bogus. People should start work when they want.

Sidley Litigator @ 12:06 - I too think that reducing the number of available start dates is spurred in large part by office logistics. But how are the posters who started early themselves "imposing their priorities" on others? First, Sidley's August start date is not mandatory, but the original mailer complains about it. This probably triggered most of the "whiny" votes. Again, the August start date is not mandatory - we can have a do-over if this changes.

Second, there is no rule that firms have to maintain past policy of flexible start schedules - although I imagine that Sidley LA (as with most firms) will continue to accomodate inidividual requests. Is it so wrong for the office of a major firm in a major market to want its 1st year class in office by early September? And notice that I didn't say "at work" because we all know the drill for the first couple of weeks - orientation, training, office intros, welcome receptions, trying not to get lost, etc. C'mon now!

you get up to FIVE weeks off. jeebus. stop the whining.

Winston Chicago starts Sept. 2... early by NY / East Coast standards but this seems to be the norm in the Midwest.

I think it must be firm wide. I'm an incoming first year at Sidley Chicago. We got the same dates to choose from. I'm sure if you wanted to start later you easily could. The firm is very accommodating. But, wait, Sidley doesn't give stub year bonuses? Damn, I didn't know this.

Sidley = no stub year bonuses. But their billable year also starts in November. It's a wash in the end.

12:48, what is up with JD DC? I was a paralegal there many moons ago.

It is completely unfair to require associates to work at this early date. It's possible it even rises to the level of immoral, although I'm no expert. In any event, I just called Sidley and informed them that I was revoking my 2L summer job there. I have no interest in associating with this sort of outfit. I will be taking my highly demanded skill set elsewhere.

12:56 - Um, there's a huge difference between being entitled to up to 5 weeks and actually getting to use all of them up in the same year. Most I ever used was almost 3 weeks... when I got married. But not complaining! Rollover and/or cash payout is fine with me.

While I think you are whiny for complaining, this is a stupid policy for the firm. Why? Because the biggest problem that the firm will have is to find enough work to employ all those first years. The work doesn't come into the firm on a set schedule. From a utilization point of view, the firm would be much better off staging the start dates over a longer period time.

I'll work the first few weeks for you while you are enjoying your vacation. After that, I'll make you coffee and shine your shoes.

My clerkship starts 2 weeks after I sit for the bar.

What a bunch of whiny twinks. My bar exam ended on a Wednesday and I started working the following Monday. Being able to earn money after a summer of forced unemployment was nice.

Your life is already over -- what does an extra two weeks mean at this point anyway? Get to work and enjoy your irrelevance as a paper archeologist when you are researching s--t that happened when you were in grade school.

Sidley associates have choices. They aren't in the class of attorneys who are "fearing" for their jobs or being unemployable.

Everyone who is calling then whinny is just mad because they had an early start date also - it is absolutely fair to complain about these early start dates. And the money argument is stupid - they have their whole life to work so they deserve another month off before that hell begins.

Seriously, why would anyone trade a few glorious weeks of freedom for a couple thousand dollars? There is something wrong with a person who actually wants to start working in August (unless they had a family to feed or some unusual financial hardship).

What is all this post-bar time for anyway? I worked until the Wednesday before the bar exam, took NY & NJ and was back to work on Monday after the bar exam.

After my undergraduate degree, I started my job the Monday after I graduated on Friday.

3L happy to not be going to sidley: "sidley doesnt even give prorated bonuses to first years?

I'D QUIT!"

Neither does K&E--review/bonus year is 9/1-8/31. Would you quit K&E, too?

1:49 - or over $100,000 in debt.

To the rest of the whiners: if you're as smart as you pretend to be, work for a couple of years and then go on the teaching market. The profs get to take world tours every summer if they want to.

3L happy to not be going to sidley: "sidley doesnt even give prorated bonuses to first years?

I'D QUIT!"

Neither does K&E--review/bonus year is 9/1-8/31. Would you quit K&E, too?

1:52 - Packing up your sh*t, finding an apartment, moving across the country, visiting with friends/family, taking a trip to europe...

1:49 - or had over $100,000 in school loans.

To the rest of the whiners - if you are as smart as you pretend to be in your comments, work for Biglaw for a few years and then go on the law teaching market. The profs get to take their world tours every summer.

Oh noes, I have to start making 160 grand and don't have time for a two-month vacation!

Pussy.

1:56 I forgot about people with private loans. Still, firms like Sidley do give a generous stipend and with proper budgeting I would think you could still squeeze in some quality vacation time. I don't think you ever get another chance to go on a vacation where no one will bug you or make you cancel your plans at the last minute because something came up.

1:56 I forgot about people with private loans. Still, firms like Sidley do give a generous stipend and with proper budgeting I would think you could still squeeze in some quality vacation time. I don't think you ever get another chance to go on a vacation where no one will bug you or make you cancel your plans at the last minute because something came up.

1:56 I forgot about people with private loans. Still, firms like Sidley do give a generous stipend and with proper budgeting I would think you could still squeeze in some quality vacation time. I don't think you ever get another chance to go on a vacation where no one will bug you or make you cancel your plans at the last minute because something came up.

I was wondering did you forget about private loans and do firms like Sidley give a generous stipend?

IF YOU WHINE ABOUT THIS, WAIT TIL YOU HAVE TO WORK ON SUPER BOWL SUNDAY. THEN WHAT WILL YOU DO?

IF YOU WHINE ABOUT THIS, WAIT TIL YOU HAVE TO WORK ON SUPER BOWL SUNDAY. THEN WHAT WILL YOU DO?

I hate all the people on here that talk about being grateful. Grateful for what? Last time I checked, they weren't getting a handout. It's a free exchange. You're grateful for charity, not for free exchanges of value. If Sidley (or any other law firm for that matter) wants to pay them in exchange for their work, then so be it. Do I ever counsel people in M&A deals to be grateful for our guys buying their business? Hell no. If our guys didn't think it was a good business deal, they wouldn't do it. People should only be grateful when they know that what they're selling is worth less than what they're getting in exchange. And granted first-years aren't worth much on their own, but it's all about an overall business plan of keeping a certain percentage of them to be mid-levels and senior associates. The unbalanced beginning is the cost of doing business in BigLaw.

I'm perpetually amazed by how poor of business people so many lawyers are. Grateful...that is hysterical. You "you should be grateful" guys are a joke.

whatever i started on like Sep 12

I hate all the people on here that talk about being grateful. Grateful for what? Last time I checked, they weren't getting a handout. It's a free exchange. You're grateful for charity, not for free exchanges of value. If Sidley (or any other law firm for that matter) wants to pay them in exchange for their work, then so be it. Do I ever counsel people in M&A deals to be grateful for our guys buying their business? Hell no. If our guys didn't think it was a good business deal, they wouldn't do it. People should only be grateful when they know that what they're selling is worth less than what they're getting in exchange. And granted first-years aren't worth much on their own, but it's all about an overall business plan of keeping a certain percentage of them to be mid-levels and senior associates. The unbalanced beginning is the cost of doing business in BigLaw.

I'm perpetually amazed by how poor of business people so many lawyers are. Grateful...that is hysterical. You "you should be grateful" guys are a joke.

Well said 2:42.

i dont understand. it seems that Sept 8 is a perfectly normal start date- maybe a week or so early than the norm? so all is sidley is doing is allowing people to elect to forego a month of getting wasted in bandeh aceh and make an extra $12K.

im married, my wife cant take a month off any august she feels like- i'd jump at the chance to start aug 11 but my firm isnt letting me start until sept 16 or something. who is actually complaining about sidleys giving options??

You forgot an option: who gives a shit?

i dont understand. it seems that Sept 8 is a perfectly normal start date- maybe a week or so early than the norm? so all is sidley is doing is allowing people to elect to forego a month of getting wasted in bandeh aceh and make an extra $12K.

im married, my wife cant take a month off any august she feels like- i'd jump at the chance to start aug 11 but my firm isnt letting me start until sept 16 or something. who is actually complaining about sidleys giving options??

I'm perpetually amazed by how poor of writing people so many commenters are.

3:41--it's probably because you don't understand the balance between form and function. Not everything needs be a law review article. No need to use a cannon to kill a fly.

All the people who are complaining that it's such an injustice to start work early - are you the same people continually insist that you've earned your biglaw jobs because you've worked so much harder than everyone else?

3:59 - Who's using a cannon to kill a fly now? It was a joke. Calm down.

You motherfuckers calling people whiners are some dumb motherfuckers. I pushed my start date back to December and I have never regretted anything less. The shorties should be able to start whenever they want. Not a shock that all of you "in my day, we started work fifteen seconds after the bar exam ended and we commuted by dirigible" people sound incredibly bitter. Crotchety even.

People, please. ONE incoming Sidley associate brought the start dates to Lat's attention, which associate feels the August date is too soon after the bar. NONE of the other 3Ls I know who are Sidley bound have complained. As has been pointed out, if we want to take a long break, we can start on Sept. 8.

(Personally, I plan to take a week-long trip and start in Aug. Were Aug 18th an option, I'd take it. Since that's not the case, I'll gladly show up on the 11th.)

As JT would say, Cry me a fucking river!!!

I don't get the big deal - why can't those complaining just start in September? Sidley has always had 2 start dates, one in August for people who care more about making the extra money than about the time off, and one in September for the rest of the pack. Generally only a very small percentage (by my guess, fewer than 25%) start in August. There a always a handful that come in October for various reasons as well, although those start dates aren't generally offered, I think you have to request it.

Poor baby, you have the OPTION of making an extra 13k a year. How heinous!

He Lat,
While we are talking about Sidley, I noticed that a lot of people got stiffed on bonuses this year. I billed 2300 hours as a 7th year and only got $20,000. I also heard this happened to a lot of folks throughout the New York office. Other comments?

Welcome to the Bigs.

So are these Sidley start dates just for Cali or firm wide?

I'm not feeling particularly fond of the silly individual who caused this to become an issue on ATL (insofar as it's an "issue"), thus giving numerous e-holligans an opportunity to knock the entire incoming class of associates (how many Kirklandians have chimed in?).

However, as anonny noted at 6:49 (2/1), Aug 18th would be much better as an early start date.

"The first start date is just 10 days after the CA bar."

I'm no math major, but wouldn't that make the SECOND start date about 38 days after the CA bar? How many fucking days off do you need for a post-bar trip?

Sidley extends later starting dates to anyone who asks. If your post-bar trip extends longer than five weeks, I would suggest that you do so. Otherwise, the Sept. date is considered the typical option. The August date was added a few years ago in response to specific requests for an earlier option. htfh.

I've seen some posts above about an Aug 18th start date. Is that an option as well?

As first year associates you will (a) know almost nothing and (b) provide almost no useful work; they can get on without you for another couple of weeks.

All they're doing is trying to get some economies of scale on training and make sure that not everyone is trickling in in November. But if you had planned to go skiing in Chile, or whatever, just ask -- tell them your plan -- and do it.

The August start date is a little ridiculous, but just choose the September one if you don't want to start that early. My first firm made everyone in my class start the day after Labor Day, so that they only had to do one firm-wide training. We weren't even given an option. So, I'm not that sympathetic to the complaints. I was ok with starting that early because I had lots of loans and couldn't afford to go on a lengthy bar trip.

"These days, if you are the last to report your are likely to end up working with the jerkiest associates & PARTNERS FROM HELL."

Is this true?

Those August weeks will be the easiest money you ever made. The firm expects nothing from you during this cushy honeymoon period, especially, and during the stub year, generally. Enjoy the cash. Plus if there's a pro-rated bonus, you will get more then, too.