none of the above

first place.

I don't think its much of a surprise that people would want to work at a top twenty firm. Here's my question - is there a firm out there (in a big city, like NY, LA, SF) that pays the same (base + bonus) but *really* has a quality of life difference, or something else to really recommend it? There have to be some lesser known firms out there that are actually worth working for. Anyone?

need more firms to choose from

John Quinn, in his letter to Lat, quipped that he doesn't use all lower case letters in an attempt to be cool. Rather, he just isn't coordinated enough to hit the shift key.

Reality, John Quinn dictates his emails to his secretary and instructs her not to capitalize.

I'd say that's a pretty good metaphor for the entire firm.

I would not work for any of these firms--I love my family too much.

If I were single or had no kids, I would work for Wachtell for the $$$$$.

Is Wachtell still accepting applications? For how many years back should I include standardized test scores in my cover letter? I could buy so many throwback jerseys with my 100% bonus...

11:29 - mcdermott will & emery.

11:32 - Why?

Where's the IP?

I guess I have to go with Kirkland by default......

Got an offer from Wachtell -- but just got a dog and decided to have somewhat of a life instead

11:40 - no face time, abuse towards associates is not tolerated, the hours are decent, and the people (including partners) are friendly and respectful.

where's Weil Gotshal?

They're all the same.

11:32/11:44 - really? Which office?

You must not be working in the same office as I do! Then again, maybe it is just the partner....

or, are you the partner?

Who cares? NEW LAW SCHOOL RANKINGS!

11:49 - nyc associate.

But does Latham let you have plants in your office? I THINK NOT!!!

Forget plants in the office, what kind of coffee does Latham provide, and how many coffee pots do they keep on each floor? Do they have instant hot cocoa?

why isn't CWT in the survey? they are the new law firm paradigm. why have more partners than you need?

Sidley Austin

Any place where associates use the phrase "da bomb" or "the bomb" is no place for me.

SEYFARTH SHAW!

Weil Gotshal, Sidley, Simpson, Arnold & Porter; I'm sure there are a few others missing as well. I chose one of those four over one of the firms featured in the survey and my ex chose another one of those four over a different firm featured in the survey (i.e., we each had summer offers at one of the featured firms). One of use lives in Chi and the other in DC, if that means anything.

SKADDEN, ftw!

Weil got the hotties (and the money and prestige). too bad im stuck at my TTT making the same money (yet 2/3 of the work but without the hotties and prestige)

sucks for meeeeeeee

So, which of the firms that get the most searched for at ATL and will therefore bring in the most hits and comments if Lat posts a poll about them would I like to work for?

Great question, Lat.

what about cleary?

11:51(2):

I have TWO plants in my office.

11:54:

Yes. Hot cocoa abounds (no-sugar-added and regular). We also have free soft drinks and other beverages (oj, apple juice, bottled water, and milk). The coffee supply probably varies by office.

The presence of Ropes & Gray in this poll is insulting. Why not throw in Stoel Rives or the best firm in Des Moines while you're at it? Once Ropes can hold a candle to Wilmer in its own market (or anywhere), THEN put it on a list. Which raises the question: where is Wilmer on this BS list? This is the Cooley of firm poll questions.

Where are the SF firms? East coast bias.

12:26: Your post could benefit from serious grammatical restructuring and perhaps a hyphen or two.

What about Clifford Chance? (more prestige than both Allen & Overy and Linklaters)

12:38:

Uh, Latham is not an East Coast firm.

What, you want MoFo on there? Surely you jest.

DPW - because somebody set up us da bomb. While it's not the most generous firm, it's about as good as life gets in a huge firm. Very low asshole population.

Is Cravath really that good?

By far the most important question is this: are ANY of these firms hiring (law clerks, laid off associates, laterals, etc.)? Any information on that question is most appreciated.

Best firm? Easy.

Eggers, Eggers, Eggers, & Eggers.
http://www.eggers-law.com/

11:29: DLA Piper. Great people to work with, solid client base, same $$$ as everybody else.

No, I'm not a partner (yet).

you forgot wilmerhale

Agree with 12:47 about DLA. Great money - well positioned for global market. On par with or better than A & O, linklaters.

12:36, where do you work, Wilmer?

I second 11:49. Not my experience of MWE at all.

Guys, the list of firms is actually from your own entries in an earlier survey this month.

So while a number of the firms mentioned in the comments (Stoel Rives, DLA Piper, WilmerHale, MWE, MoFo, Clifford Chance, Weil, Sidley, Simpson Thacher, and A&P) have much to commend them, they just didn't get as many nominations as the firms included in this round.

Orrick

I have worked at Cravath and Latham. They are very different. Cravath has a "god-complex" about partners--no matter how crazy the request, everyone scurries around like bees to make it happen yesterday. Latham has a far more collaborative approach. I have been in more than one meeting with L&W partners where they turn to a junior and ask, "What do you think?"

A similar metaphor would be Cravath's rotational system. Although Cravath will try to collaborate with associates about which rotation--Securities, Banking, M&A, etc.--you could get stuck in a less than fabulous partner group in the vertical you chose--and you have to sit it out for 12-24 months, being a team player for the firm. That's a looooong time if you aren't interested in your rotation or find yourself in a less than scintillating group.

However, CS&M does mean working on big headline deals, tons of all-nighters and a general sense of "we're all in this together"--senior associates stay late right along with the first years much of the time.

Latham is more kum-by-ya, but you're still working on good, interesting stuff. Less likelihood of an all-nighter, more down-to-earth partners.

Oh, and the L&W office that I am in DOES have plants. Big ones. Each first year got a HUGE plant. And we have Peet's on every floor.

Bottom line--know what you are getting into. A pervasive CA flavor permeates Latham, even though many firm honchos are based out of NY. Cravath is NY through and through. (When I worked in their London office, they even shipped over American office supplies, lest they be too British! ahahaha!)

yeah what about cleary? great culture, incredible intl work, no screamers that i know of, gorgeous offices and your own office even as a summer!

This site is played out like jean shorts.

99% of the posters on this site review documents all day long, seven days a week. Ah, the sweet life...

My vote is for Schulte. Great people and a great place to work. Top bonuses too.

Latham is fabulous if you want training in how to negotiate like a pompous asshole. Their partners give courses daily.

I'm offended to see Quinn Emmanuel's name getting tossed around with the names of superior litigation shops like Cravath and Williams (or Wachtell or DPW SullCrom for that matter, which also have a bunch of great litigators). Face it, Quinn is a bunch of hacks.
The only thing this proves is that they've successfully suckered law students into thinking that what the firm does is practice law.

re 11:42
For IP, everyone seems to want to go to Fish, Kirkland, or Finnegan (in that order).

re 11:29
It doesn't exist. However, if you have the skills to do IP, Knobbe is a solid quality of life firm.

re 11:42
For IP, everyone seems to want to go to Fish, Kirkland, or Finnegan (in that order).

re 11:29
It doesn't exist. However, if you have the skills to do IP, Knobbe is a solid quality of life firm.

I wanna get the backstory on why 12:36 is so bitter about Ropes. I assume he was rejected and has to work at Wilmer in Boston.

Seriously people - Bingham. That's right, Bingham.

The reasons: we get the same money as the big boys; prestiguous but still somewhat anonymous in the middle of the Vault100 rankings; we get way better work than you poor shmuckos doing doc review all day; we get way less work than you poor shmuckos doing doc review all day; the partners are human beings, complete with senses of humor; and the associates aren't douchebags like you find at bigger name shops.

I have first-year friends at Ropes who feel duped because they chose the firm precisely because they got a big song and dance about how they'd work hard and be rewarded (with lockstep bonuses). Now the work has dried up in certain groups and folks are faced with a hard hours requirement. They feel as though there was a bait and switch.

I know I am dating myself here, but there was a time in the early 90s, I think it was, when nearly all the big firms were laying off associates and virtually all of them would do so by claiming it was all part of their normal weeding out process. I will never forget how when Latham did its layoffs it said, "No. These are really good people we are laying off and others would do well to hire them. We are laying them off because of the legal slowdown, not for other reasons."

I have never had a connection with Latham and I was not laid off at that time (I think I was with Kirkland & Ellis which did not lay off anybody), but I will never forget how Latham was the first one to dispense with the crap. That alone says a hell of a lot about that firm.

None of the above.

Jenner is awesome.

wasn't Weil noted as "one of best gigs in NYC" in a previous survey? Why aren't they on this one?

Justin--

Can we get like a bar graph showing what % of votes each of these firms got?

And what was the # of votes necessary to qualify as one of the firms to be included in this new round of the survey? Did the others fall behind by a lot?

Why isn't Cleary listed?

Clifford Chance rules. Allen Overy sucks.

1:36 - I heard same about associates getting screwed at Ropes & Gray.

Cleary III _ Because unlike Latham associates, Cleary associates have better things to do with their time than pump their firm in an idiotic ATL popularity contest.

What, no Cadwalader? Surely this was an oversight. I can't believe they aren't one of the most desired firms to work for, what with all the lateral partners they've been scooping up. You know what they say: the proof's in the pudding. Most of the listed firms are living off past glory. Cadwalader is the new leader.

Cadwalader? You must be kidding. But what's going on there isn't funny. I hear they're on suicide watch.

Quinn doesn't have the history of some of the big players, and the way they practice isn't as thorough, but it is more respected than I would have guessed. FWIW, when I was interviewing, I was told by people at one firm that they had recently picked up a major case from another firm because that firm was getting hammered by QE.

Latham wins? You have to be kidding.

12:08 made the only sensible comment to a nonsensical survey. Aside from litigation instensive QE and W&C, most are interchangeable. Any true BigLaw associate knows that every firm has equal number of supporters and detractors.

What about Fried Frank and their bankruptcy group?

Sorry, it should be "intensive"

does cleary hire only topt?

better question, do all these firms only hire top T?

Has anyone landed a job offer at any of these firms in the past 3 months? If so, what are your stats (generally)?

My day is not crazy today - and I like pop polls - so me too: Where is Cleary? Cleary hires beyond Top Ten schools - but your grades have to be very strong.

Thanks Cleary 6th.

Thanks Cleary 6th.

Thanks Cleary 6th.

Anyone who thinks bonuses for 2008 are going to be the same as bonsues for 2007 is an idiot. Won't happen.

Truer words are not found in this thread (2:42): "Any true BigLaw associate knows that every firm has equal number of supporters and detractors."

And, for the record: None of the above.

"Bitter, party of one! Bitter, party of one!"

3:42, your table's ready.

so where does milbank rank? get the feeling this one's past its prime

I vote for Shearman! I've had a great experience--high quality work with great people supervising. I have nothing but compliments of my experience.

Milbank is da bomb.

Heller Ehrman.....not!

Latham has gotten the most votes for two reasons:

1. It's a big firm, with offices in most major cities; and

2. L&W associates spend a lot of time online writing about how cool they are. (see http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=709522&forum_id=2)

I also cannot believe that Lat left Weil and STB off the survey. Now, I'm with one of the west coast offices and perhaps our east coast brethren aren't as happy, but the happiest (relatively speaking, of course) biglaw lawyers I know are at Weil, STB or DPW--especially those on the west coast (NYC pay with a little more west coast mellowness).

C'mon, Lat, people happy at Latham, KE and Skadden? Paaalease...that is some major coolaid you're serving. Perhaps folks at Weil and STB actually still have work to do in the current market and less time to play around on ATL (or less disgruntled, so don't feel the need to).

5:08: That thread proves nothing. Some 3Ls are trying to decide where to go and asked specific questions. Some Latham people (two, it seems) answered some of their questions.

I really don't see what there is to get all worked up about, or the need to leave hate-posts. Jealousy is ugly, my friend. And why be jealous? Be happy with who you are and leave it at that.

just to have join in and say this survey is a joke. simpson, weil, cleary, are all firms id want to work for, maybe over the other new york firms on the list.

Shearman should have been on the list!

Hey Lat, why no love for Milbank? Especially since they are the only firm so far to come out and say no layoffs during this downturn.

Face it people! All top ten law firms are prestigious, will work you to death, have amazing and famous professionals, great cookies in their cafeterias and so on and so forth. So what it really boils down to is MONEY.

If you can go to Wachtell $$, DO EEET. Yes, just for the money. THEN F-ING BOUNCE with your sweet paycheck

Has anyone noticed that their attorneys don't actually have top credentials? Some do, but MANY don't (Lat was certainly one of their best hires). It doesn't seem all that hard to get a job there, especially as a lateral, and they do not seem to get many top COA clerks (who can generally go anywhere they want). Compare this with certain DC firms and the litigation boutiques all over the country. Surprised to not see any of them on the list.

milbank hasn't confirmed no layoffs. who's spinning that crap? they're as slow as the others and when the time is right they'll let people go - partner profits, 8:12pm, will always trump associate job certainty. getting the feeling milbank is TTT and not what used to be - does anyone have any thoughts?

What is in the Kool Aid at Latham? The personalities there are as mediocre as the personalities at any big law firm; they're just in serious denial about it.

10:14 - WLRK is mostly known for M&A. Not something most COA clerks are interested in.

DLA sucks.

Munger, Irell, Cleary, Gibson?

Skadden has $2 BILLION in profits and offices in most major cities of the world. They just opened offices in Shanghai and Sao Paulo to support their growing practices. Clearly, Skadden will not be outdone by some upstart like Shearman or Milbank.

P.S: Also, Skadden hasn't had any layoffs during this horrid downcycle.

I work at Milbank and wouldn't work anywhere else in NY...its more laid back than most, the work is good, if you know where to look the partners and staff will work to keep you happy, the pay is tops, the cafeteria is the best in the City...I've had the chance to move up (in the firm the "rankings") a couple of times and never found anywhere that I liked as much.

None of the above - that's why I went in-house 5 years ago.

I agree on the wtf about Ropes. Local firm who will take any douchebag they trick into signing up. Stick with the other decent national firms in Boston, if you're going to include anything from Boston.

hey, 11:01...ding?

Hey 6:55 -- has the work at Milbank slowed significantly?

8:38 AM-I'm not quite sure why you hate Ropes so much, unless they didn't give you an offer. My sense is that the Ropes lawyers are as happy, if not happier, than lawyers at other firms.

1:12pm - I hope you enjoyed the koolaid they served you, you seem to have drank enough of it. I can only assume you are one of the 2L douchebags recently hired (1 our of 2,436 summers) who desperately needs to think he didn't make the worst mistake of his life. Good luck, chum...I'll enjoy reading your resume in six months, at my significantly higher ranked and more competitive national firm.

But seriously folks...who keeps putting Ropes on these lists when every city the firm exists in (all three of them) contains 5-1000 better firms?

If I were working at Ropes this summer (which I am not), I would be doing so to avoid people like you.

thoughts on working at williams & connolly?

1:43 - "chum"? Why don't you take a break from posting and finish your Tom Collins, you pussy.

4:00pm, meant chump, but I appreciate your Southie style quip. 1:51, God you're lame.

I've never thought of Latham as prestigious. It seems like it's in the top of Vault b/c it is one of the few big boys in LA.

Hey 9:40, yup, I dinged Latham. Many lawyers are self-absorbed and socially awkward. Many lawyers at Latham are self-absorbed and socially awkward. Great personalities? About as many as the firm down the street--slightly north of zero.