The internet is great, and law school class is pointless anyway - I spend 75% of the time in class on ATL, facebook, and ESPN.com. It's nice to have a distraction from hearing profs ramble on and on about shit we know isn't going to be on our test.

And no, I'm not an idiot - top 5% of class.

U of C was late to the game in providing wireless anyway, so turning it off just means going back to the way it was in 2005. Big deal.

The biggest detriment to learning in law school is the lack of any qualified teachers.

i didn't have access my first year. spent time trying to figure out how to get on the internet during class while paying attention and playing all the different variations of solitaire. Sure, the internet is a distraction, but there will always be distractions in the class. Maybe i'd pass notes to my friend sitting next to me, instead of gchat. Maybe I'd play solitaire instead of using the internet. Maybe I'd do a crossword puzzle.

I've also used the internet in class for useful things- like saving the desk space from rule books and pulling up relevant rules during class. If students can't pay attention, it's not the schools responsibility to curb their will power.

I'm reading this in class right now...

Kash is right about class being boring and she didn't even go to law school to figure it out (great decision, by the way). Surely the profs should realize how boring they are too!

Take away the internet and you'll just have more people sleeping in class. Personally, I find people snoring more distracting that people on the internet - especially since most of surfing the web can be done via links and favorites and very little typing.

Seriously, though, what will those people who still go to class and stay awake do without the internet? There are only so many games you can play on your phone before they get boring. PSPs for every 1L?

chicago is a very serious law school. we all work very hard and we don't have to appease the slacker students out there. i applaud the decision of the school to pull the plug on in-class wireless access.

The more idiots playing solitaire and checking out Perez Hilton, the better for anyone with a modicum of self-control who is actually paying attention...

reading this in class as we speak

biglawboard.com reported this yesterday.

BLB got to it FIRST!

http://www.biglawboard.com/blb/viewThread.jsp?threadId=13011&x=19

There is one prof (Cribari) at Minnesota who doesn't let his students use laptops in class. This, despite the fact that we are forced to "buy" a laptop from the school at the rate of 3K per year, and then purchase the laptop again at graduation for $160.

This year, he told his 1L's he'd let them file motions and hold mock court hearings about why they should have laptops. All-in-all, the process is going to take until the end of the semester, so even if they win they won't get anything out of it.

The loophole was that they could have filed for an injunction, but being 1L's and not having learned anything useful from their classes they didn't know that yet. He's been gleefully telling his upper-level research assistants about how smart he is, and how dumb the 1Ls are because they didn't know about the injunction.

If turning off internet benefits students, the students that voluntarily not surf the net will rise to the top the class.

University of Chicago: Totally In Favor of the Free Market and Competition, Except When We Aren't.

Hypocrites much?

Another reason why I don't want to hear law school grads bitch about level of debt.

it's tough to concentrate when some douchebag in front of you is browsing Perez Hilton's bright pink site with pictures of your favorite celeb with a big hand-drawn dildo promiscuously drawn on.

no internet access in classrooms (but keep it in common areas) would be v welcome, improve the quality of discussion, and make students focus on lectures

To clarify, my first semester I never used the internet and ended up in top 20%. Second and third semesters I used the 75% rule and am now in top 5%. Class is pointless, and anyone who says otherwise is just attempting to justify a huge waste of time (and probably the huge debt they will have). Proves my point that most law students are tools...

I spent 09% of my class time the last 2.5 years of law school at a top 20 law school on the Internet and came out in the top 5%. Let the students decide if they can handle the distraction.

ATL's report on Medellin v Texas? Kash?

I spent 90% of my class time the last 2.5 years of law school at a top 20 law school on the Internet and came out in the top 5%. Let the students decide if they can handle the distraction.

Let us have internet... if some kid sitting next to me feels like reading the Drudge Report for the whole class and not paying the least bit of attention to the professor, browse on and let me get not only a better grade but more out of the class in general. I browse the internet ocassionally during down times, and I don't think it affects my ability to perform and participate in class at all.

with sunstein gone too, why would anyone go to chicago?

Law profs are only interested in their niches, and they seem to have no regard for the practical needs of their students' future careers. We're not interested in what they do-- a law prof is lucky to have five students in a lecture who care. They will not be able to coerce us into caring-- they're going to have to adapt. Modern academia is a marketplace, not the military. Just because they turn off the internet doesn't mean we'll pay more attention. I'd still bring my laptop just to have something to hide my head while I fall asleep to the soothing tones of Civil Procedure (I'm a transactional guy).

1:35 - Your Internet addiction is holding you back. Why aren't you top 1%?

If Chicago outlaws internet access, only outlaws (and people with cellular modems) will have internet access.

NESL still has internet.

1L contracts prof banned laptops at Virginia. Seemed to have positive results.

Last semester Michigan re-enabled wireless access in classrooms. I have to say, it's resulted in a huge improvement in my classroom experience.

It could be worse...

At BLS we technically have internet access... but the school is so disorganized and so poorly run that it doesn't work half the time. It's really quite a crap-shoot - maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, there's no telling!!!

no laptops in class.

I feel I would have learned a lot more without internet in the classroom. Then again, I would have been a lot more bored.

i am in M&A class right now bored out of my mind listening to the rambling of an 80 year old man who does not care to keep class interesting or use any class participation. if schools dont want the internet to be a distraction, hire better professors or force the professors to be more interesting. they should earn their money.

I want laptops and internet because the lazies will goof off olnine while I learn the material.

Just more evidence Chicago is the place fun goes to die.

BLB was also the first to get Marc Randazza to comment (other than his very witty and wonderful blog, of course).

Honestly, is there any actual benefit to having the internet in classes except to goof off?

I'm not sure if there is any corrosive effect - someone who wasn't going to be paying attention isn't going to start paying attention just because you shut off the internet - but I have yet to see what advantage there is.

Actually, I take that back, I know one advantage: I remember seeing people IM'ing each other answers when called upon without knowing it. I don't know that that's really a good thing though.

The difference is not b/t those who surf the Internet and those who do not. The difference is b/t those who know when the professor is discussing something that has no chance of being on the exam and use that time to surf the Internet and those who are constantly on the Internet.
This thread seems to enjoy percentages, so I'll say that would give you about 70% Internet time and 30% paying attention time. Paying attention during the non-relevant 70% gives you no advantage over the selective listeners.

1:58 - good to hear. I got it at Michigan and then they took it away. People need to take responsibility for themselves and learn to deal with distractions. Life is full of them.

I'm all for this. For the people who actually want to pay attention in class, there is nothing more distracting than the people on all sides of you playing on Facebook and IMing. It's like having a television screen on right in front of you.

And for those of you that do goof off, you should know that the pen and paper people do read what is on your screen. So stop lingerie shopping for your girlfriend, because while you might think Evidence is boring, the rest of us really don't want to think about your sex life.

Is internet really the problem, or is it laptops in general? The profs at my school talk about the good 'ole days when students put pencils to paper.

I did a masters before law school and we used laptops without internet access. I was just as distracted by games as I am by surfing the web.

Also, class is pointless most of the time--since 100% of our grade comes down to a 3 hr final that we can ace without ever stepping foot in class--so why make us sit through a boring ass lecture without some fun?

At my LS, the internet stays on but some profs don't allow it - or computers - in their class. I avoid those courses like the plague.

Back in the day, law school kids just brought newspapers to class. Surprise! -- the best, smartest and most interesting lawyers are NOT teaching law school.

I think all laptops should be banned for 1L's. They generally tend to alternate between blindly dictating the lecture and going on Facebook (and its impossible not to watch a game of scrabulous if you're behind them). The school has a responsibility to try to set them up to learn. Getting rid of the internet is halfway there.

That said, after first year let them do whatever they want.

100% laptops and internet at all times. 3L class had their internet turned off when they were 1Ls for bad behavior; luckily the sins of the father did not sentence us to the damnation of class without the internet.

I used the Internet for a few possibly legit reasons 1) to read the rules in code-based classes. It was also a lot easier to find everything when it's in electronic form. I guess I could have downloaded a version onto my comp. 2) to pull up cases that we were discussing. Westlaw headnotes saved my butt several times, and I could jump to sections of the case to recite facts. 3) look for outlines. Oh yeah. I can't tell you how many free outlines I found that already covered the topics we were discussing. Of course, I'd also check mail, read ATL et al., etc.

With some preparation, I could have done all of this before class, but it was nonetheless a huge help.

if you have to pay attention in law school...I fell sorry for you

It could be worse. You could be at Northwestern.

This just in: 2L @ 1:35 dislocates shoulder from patting self on back.

Vandy sucks - Go Siena!!

I was more productive and engaged when I was able to "goof off" on the internet when some gunner started going off on some useless tangent. My brain needs stimulation, and when I'm not getting it from the class, I need a suppliment.

I graduated in the top 3% of my class from a top school.

to add to 2:15(1)'s comment, i don't believe that laptops or the internet on laptops is the problem. the problem is law school classes. if the classes themselves through the professors don't provide strong enough incentive to pay diligent attention, nothing is going to prevent students from distracting
themselves. large classes and one three-hour exam at the end of the semester, are factors that provide disincentives for students to pay attention during each individual class. I would give the maddest props imaginable to the first law school that creates the following curriculum and class structure:

first year doctrinal classes: all around 15 students or so with numerous tests throughout the semester. no single final at the end for the whole grade.

upper-level classes: for 2Ls - the same format as for 1Ls, though perhaps the class size can be bigger. emphasis on skills and applied lawyering classes that also bring in substantive components. For 3Ls - they have to do the same sort of rotations that a med student will do in the third and fourth years, i.e. 3Ls will spend a month to two months or so at willing and able firms, government agencies, public interest, policy shops, etc. without classes, this will obviate the need for a winter break so more time can be spent at each place. 3Ls will get serious experience, have less stress from exams, and be in a better position to go into the workforce.
Someone call me crazy.

if you have to pay attention in law school...I fell sorry for you

What purpose does the internet really serve in class other than for goofing off? None. They might as well give everyone yo-yo's. I personally would rather not have the temptation.

I'll probably get flamed because I don't go to law school there, but I went to Texas undergrad and they're about to rip almighty Stanford apart - Go Longhorns!!

if you have to pay attention in law school...I fell sorry for you

Once was enough - don't you "feel" sorry for everyone...douchebag

If you can't spell, I fell sorry for you.

I graduated the top .001% at HLS and YLS simultaneously while spending every class on the internet posting about how great I am. Unfortunately now my excessive douchebaggery has been exposed and I'm stuck on doc review - while using my personal time to post about how great I am.

The problem is not the internet, it is law school in general--very little practicality in courses, who wants to pay attention to a boring lecture on legal theory that will never apply in the real world of practicing law.

2:32, i.e., crazy, what a waste of time. Doctors do rotation because they need familiarity with a variety of overlapping disciplines. The same isn't true in law.

Smart people don't need trade schools.

I will stop looking at ATL and facebook when:

1) Professors make paying attention necessary to get a good grade

2) Professors stop using the socratic method to force students who don't know what they are talking about (myself included) to babble

3) Professors stop spending excessive amounts of time answering tangential student questions

Who cares?

1) Most cell phones now have internet access with chat capabilities.

2) Verizon just announced a $40/mo. - 50mb wireless data plan which can be with a laptop to access the internet. Sprint and Cricket have similar (and less expensive) services.

So what if they shut off the internet? Unless they are also going to install technology to block cell phone signals, this won't stop the "problem."

Does Lat not "work" anymore?

2:40 - Law school classes are pointless. I seriously think I could learn more about litigation watching "Legally Blonde" and "My Cousin Vinnie". We could easily get in and out of school with what we need to know in 18 months, but they need to milk us for all they can, hence the 3 years. 2:32's idea isn't bad. I'm a 2L now and spending my third year doing real work sure as hell will help me more in the real world than sitting in class on the internet like I am now.

I am working towards my JD/MD. I completed 2 years of Med. School so far and am about to graduate from law school.

As someone who attended maybe 25% of my med school classes (I would say most people went to 30-50% of the classes), I absolutely hated the asinine mandatory attendance policies of law school. Internet access is the only thing that made class bearable.
I think it is just part of the vast differences between med school and law school. Med schools trust that their students actually want to become not only doctors but good doctors. Law school isn't about creating good lawyers; its about arbitrarily creating class rankings.

Class time is terribly unproductive, especially for people who are not aural learners. If a professor wants people to pay attention, then he should try to have something interesting to say that I couldn't have learned in 5 minutes by looking at an outline or study guide.

After the first semester, law school and particularly the socratic method are the biggest waste of time I have ever had to suffer through.

what kind of salary are you looking at upon graduating with the joint degree, 2:48?

Best law school professor... Yale Kamisar for Crim Pro. No need for the internet in that class.

2:32, you're crazy.

"first year doctrinal classes: all around 15 students or so with numerous tests throughout the semester. no single final at the end for the whole grade."

That's a terrible idea: nobody cares if you learn the details of what was taught over the last two weeks. The whole point is to force you to learn how to think within the confines of the subject-area law: hence the massive end of semester exam approach.

Internet in class is a must. Here's the thing. I paid attention when professors were talking, most of them really like when you regurgitate their thoughts to them on the exam, so there was some useful information out there. That said, the second DB #s 1-55 started talking about "their concepcion of X" I completely tuned out. If there was anything I was sure of in law school it was that no exam would ever ask, "What did the gunner in the blue hat think of X."

"I absolutely hated the asinine mandatory attendance policies of law school"

What TTT law school actually enforced those stupid ABA requirements?

My law school professor banned in-class laptop usage, and everybody in the class came out in the top 20%

2:32-

In principle, I like the idea of a more practical approach to law school. I don't disagree that most of what is taught in law school has absolutely no bearing on the actual practice of law. However, students should be given the choice of taking classes in the third year. I know that I, for one, took two classes in the second semester of my third year for the sole purpose of preparing for subjects I knew would be on the bar exam. It certainly helped having that base of knowledge before I went into BarBri.

UCLA turns off the internet in each classroom during class time, but if the poor student can sit close enough to a door or window, he or she can get a good enough signal to browse around. By request of faculty, this can be modified to allow students to go to two websites: the faculty's class page and CALIS.

Michigan tried this...it didn't work because we're too smart to be kept away from the internets (#2 afterall).

So, the administration gave up and now we all have internets access all the time.

My advice - just be patient and figure out how to get access anyway.

Oh yeah, 2:56, a brilliant use of expensive classes indeed! What, with the great difficulty with which most people pass the bar and all...

Most people at Michigan weren't smart enough to figure out how to get on the internet for those 2 terrible years we didn't have it.

Only TTT law schools ban the internet

I wish someone had cut off the Internet at NYU during my time there. Most of the classes were boring enough that I spent a good quarter of the class surfing the net.

Internet, great. Above the Law, Awesome. Reading KASH articles? Disappointing.

I graduated recently from U of C, and can attest to Dean Levmore's desire to make his law school actually like high school.

he's unfortunately out of touch some times.

hint to U of C profs - stop acting like you're teaching Law & Economics in every class - it gets old fast. and you're not all Judge Posner, and you never will be (unless you're Judge Posner).

we want more kash!

does U of C = the university of cincinnati, toledo branch? I've heard through the grapevine that it was #26 on those new vault rankings.

We need something to spread out the curve!

If not the internet, then solitare. You can't make me pay attention, so let's not cut off the internet and say we did.

If the prof is interesting, people are going to pay attention. I had a prof last semester that I absolutely hated, and he didn't allow us to use computers. I paid much more attention in my classes where I could use my laptop but found the prof/class interesting than I did in his class without my laptop.

3 out of my 4 professors this semester have no laptop policies. It is rough, and my hand cramps up from taking notes by hand (something I havent done in years)

What is the policy at state law schools. Can any PENN Law students fill me in?

"A number of law professors have complained about laptops undermining learning."

See, I thought law school was about law students and not law professors. Who are professors to tell me how to learn. Maybe law professors should pay tutition to teach.

"A number of law professors have complained about laptops undermining learning."

See, I thought law school was about law students and not law professors. Who are professors to tell me how to learn. Maybe law professors should pay tutition to teach.

If all these self-professed "slackers" have such a problem with not having access to the Internet in the classroom, don't go to class. At NYU, most of the classes, there was no professor taking attendance (even during 1L year) and thus, one could get notes from a classmate and go to class.

I don't see what the big deal about cutting off Internet access is. It is just one more distraction not to have deal wtih.

I missed plenty of classes but when I went I wanted to learn. Not having Internet access would have been beneficial to me.

No internet at 'dozo.

Kash is a super-cutie. More pix, please.

at cornell they've blocked internet access in classrooms (at least since 2004) - probably a good idea. in the few classes i somehow got a wireless signal i paid little to no attention.

banning laptops in general is retarded, i dont even remember how to use a pencil.

Guys at my high school surfed the Internet in class all the time, it was no big deal.

Open Command Prompt
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
Sign in

it'll give you about two minutes before the system recognizes you shouldn't be using it.

Duke 2L - if your hand is cramping up, I very much doubt it is because of all the writing...

Hey, law school professors, if you want students to pay attention to what you're saying, here's a simple tip: say something that's worth listening to.

Wait? What? You've voluntarily signed onto a system where 90% of your students don't care what you say because it has no intrinsic interest for them and their evaluations depend almost not at all on assimilating what's said in lecture? Well, there's your problem, then. You aren't actually teaching. You're sorting. And there's no need to compel students to pay attention for that.

If the students are surfing the net in class, it's all on the prof (bad teaching skills). I never used the internet in classes where the professors were engaging, but always did in classes that were really dull and non-engaging.

There will always be something to distract the distractable, in and out of class.

Class isn't even where most of the learning takes place, so these professors and administrators are overreacting.

If you can't deal with the distraction of the internet, how the hell are you going to survive in practice?

And people on here need stop fooling themselves about how easy it is to ace a law school exam. Sure, there are a few people who can ace an exam without ever paying attention in/going to class, but they're the exception to the rule.

I'm planning on gunning it in all my classes, as a response. They want classroom discussion? I'll bring it. I encourage all of my classmates to do the same.

I'm not ashamed to admit that in-class internet usage represents real utility that Dean Levmore's paternalism completely destroys without any assurances that we'll get any benefit in the form of an improved educational experience. This is all about professor egos, and as one of our law & econ scholars, I sure hope Dean Levmore realizes that.

I personally stopped taking notes in class unless the teacher says something worth noting. I save a lot of paper. Unfortunately, hypotheticals about what whether it would be an unconstitutional stop if an officer suspected me of possession and pulled me over for a traffic violation are not helpful when we are discussing Whren (but I DO see the connection to the reading professor).

I learned a long time ago that what you talk about in class is in the casebook, and what is in the casebook is on the test. If you're studying the constitution, it doesn't matter that what you're reading isn't sinking in -- you're on a bell curve (write something witty and make the curve work for you).

3:11 -

Whether I "wasted" an expensive class by using them to prepare for BarBri is a matter of perspective. I had to take some class. (My school, and assume all others, require students to take at least a minimum amount of credits each semester.) My choices were: (1) classes that would have absolutely no bearing on the actual practice of law or (2) classes that could help me pass the bar exam. I see absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the second option. Either way I was going to be wasting a lot of money on a class.

I am in class now...so I say allow the students to continue to use the internet in class. If a someone has made it to Law School then they should have the privilege of paying attention to the Prof or not while in class.

The thing I've noticed is that those who spend time goofing off on laptops in class are the ones that work until midnight studying every day (or at least are always in study groups or in the library at my school). Those who spend those 15 hrs/week in class paying attention can enjoy their lives for the three years of law school.

"Who are professors to tell me how to learn."

They're people who know more than you do.

Saul Levmore should concentrate his efforts on retaining and recruiting faculty, and not trivial stuff like this.

There was a guy in one of my classes last year who would play this video of a chimpanzee peeing in it's mouth over and over and over...

I rather pity most of the commenters if they ever find a job. The whining sense of entitlement is sort of sad really, and will likely yield harsh criticism at a firm (or any professional work environment really).

I often need to access class-related docs from the internet so I vote no.

anyone else here care about the classes for reasons beyond getting 'the grade'? The comments are almost universally depressing in terms of verifying the stereotype of shallowness/$$$-striving that plagues the profession ...

Suggestion for the photo next time:

More skin. Less clothes.

thanks,

Once they stop letting 80 year old tenured should be retired profs teaching unbearably boring classes, I will surfing the internet during class.

i would DIE without gchat in class.

For a while, UMich banned internet to students during their class times. Just this past year, the ban was eliminated because the "costs outweighed the benefits".

Some profs ban computers from their class, entirely, some have a rotation where students take notes for the class on a computer, and some embrace the net for all its glory, including giving mini quizzes online each day. Lame.

I thought class went smoother without the internet, but in the end it doesn't really matter.

This is why I have an aircard and verizon. Our wireless access is limited in the classrooms, so i use the aircard when in class.

Who needs to pay attention in class! Who needs to study! Who needs law! I NEVER PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS AND DON'T REGRET IT!

My second and third years of law school would have been absolute hell if not for the internet.

Fuck you, Saul

As a UChicago 2L, I have to say that I'm pretty happy either way, with internet or without internet. Internet is great and all, but so is learning. That's just my two cents!

It is quite simple - in the classes where the prof rambles on and on, and takes questions from people that have no idea what they are talking about, I surf the internet. In classes where they actually are teaching me something, I don't. Why deny students an excellent way of alleviating boredom when the schools don't care enough to hire engaging profs?

Chicago = TTT. They will never be close to YLS as they are clearly as conservative and behind the times as their reputation.

Well, if the fac would learn how to use the technology they would likely be able to engage the classes more with it. Instead the older tenured faculty use the Socratic method as an excuse to maintain the status quo, and the younger, non tenured are too busy/scared to innovate in the classroom for fear they will blow it/waste their time and not get tenure.