The U.S. News Rankings: Law Schools Lose Their S**t React
As we reported earlier this week, the latest U.S. News & World Report law school rankings are out. And some schools are flipping out over their falling rankings. A tipster at the University of Iowa College of Law writes:
[B]elow is an email the Iowa law students received yesterday from Dean Jones about the new US News & World Report rankings. Apparently our dean is setting up small group meetings with the students. No faculty. No other administration. Methinks this may be somewhat of a divide and conquer strategy. These meetings may be in part a result of the newly formed Facebook group "Stop the Bleeding at Iowa Law."My favorite part, though, is that the "faculty" have dubbed their concern about the rankings "Project Apollo." Well, if they're not going to do anything about it, at least they can come up with a secret, clever code name, so it looks in hindsight like they've been planning D-Day part 2. Bravo profs and administration, you've really impressed me this time.
Dean Jones's email appears after the jump. Meanwhile, a source at University at Buffalo Law School reports:
For the return on investment -- a Biglaw job for $13k a year in tuition (for the top of the class) -- many students were OK with the shortcomings of this law school. [But] with T3 looking over our shoulder, some fellow students are contemplating jumping ship....It's hard to justify leaving for debt-ridden T25 greener pastures when L. Rev. and a market-paying job in the City are likely. No one likes to be on the Titanic, though.
The message sent to the Buffalo student body by interim dean Makau Mutua, after the jump.
Update (10:50 AM): Add the University of Minnesota Law School to the list of institutions whose deans are sending out school-wide emails about their declining rankings:
Students at the University of Minnesota Law School received this email today from the two interim co-deans. It's pretty hilarious that they try to claim we are still a top 20 school even though we are now ranked #22. It's particularly amusing that they have decided to "address the particular factors that caused a decline this year."
The email from the school's two interim co-deans, after the jump.
Update (11:10 AM): From a source at UNC School of Law:
Since you're posting panicked USN&WR reactions, add this one to your list. You know it's bad when you have to respond in Latin.
Dean Boger's email, after the jump.
UNIVERSITY OF IOWA COLLEGE OF LAW -- EMAIL TO STUDENT BODY FROM DEAN CAROLYN JONES
From: Dean Carolyn Jones
Date: March 28, 2008
Re: US News Rankings
The US News and World Report law school rankings for this spring show that our ranking is 27 (down from 24 last year). Some members of law school community have expressed anxiety about that change. Given the publicity that surrounds the rankings, I understand and respect your concern. There is some information on this subject that you might not be aware of, and that I think you’ll find relevant and reassuring. I’ll refer briefly to some of it here, but I believe a face-to-face conversation would be especially helpful. At the end of this memo you’ll find information about scheduling a time to get together.
Please be assured that the law school administration has not been asleep at the switch on this issue. Indeed, we have been studying the US News rankings at a very high level over the past year. Hundreds of hours of sophisticated thought by alumni, faculty and staff have gone into this project, informally dubbed the Apollo Project. We have been considering ways of bringing new resources to the law school that will enhance our rankings and – more importantly – substantively strengthen the institution. The Iowa Law School Foundation Board has already taken important steps in this direction, and it will take additional ones at its meeting this weekend. I will provide more information when we meet.
As you may know, the U.S. News rankings themselves have been the subject of rather intense study. Without ignoring their obvious importance, it’s also essential to understand something about how they work – and don’t work. I may be able to share some information with you on that subject as well, but in the meantime, you might find it useful to look at Theodore Seto’s article, Understanding the US News Law School Rankings, 60 S.M.U. L. Rev. 493 (2007). It is thought-provoking, thorough and extremely helpful in understanding how the rankings work.
Like you, I care very much about this school. It is my alma mater. I have very high ambitions for the College of Law, its students, faculty, staff and alumni. My aim is to continue our strong traditions and to improve this school in ways that assure this is a top notch educational and professional experience. At the core of that project for the coming years is more student financial aid and strong support for our faculty in their teaching, research and service missions.
Times for discussion groups are listed below. I hope that you will sign up for a session in the Dean’s office. This is a College of Law with a wonderful and respected faculty, outstanding students and a dedicated staff. We do have a challenge, but it is one we can meet constructively and positively. That process is well-underway.
Meeting times - please sign up at the reception area in 280 Boyd Law Building:
. Tues, April 1 from 11-12
. Tues, April 1 from 4-5
. Wed, April 2 from 11-12
. Mon, April 7 from 9-10
. Tues, April 8 from 8-9
. Wed, April 9 from 3-4
. Thurs, April 10 from 1-2
. Fri, April 11 from 9-10
. Fri, April 11 from 4-5
UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO LAW SCHOOL -- STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK -- EMAIL TO STUDENT BODY FROM INTERIM DEAN MAKAU MUTUA
Our Dear Students:
As you may be aware, U.S. News & World Report will issue its 2008 ranking of law schools tomorrow. Unfortunately, our ranking has dropped from 77 to 100. You are the future of this Law School, and I want to assure you that we will do everything in our power to rectify this situation as quickly as possible, and move this School forward beyond our previous position. My goal is to get this law school into the top 50. We are carrying out an aggressive internal planning process to raise funds, attract star faculty, recruit a stellar class, raise our LSAT, and produce good scholarship--all important factors in how we will rank next year. In addition, we are reaching out to our employer partners and prominent alumni, all of whom remain confident in the quality of our legal education. We know that this is unsettling news for each of you. Please know that the value of your education is of the utmost concern to this administration and faculty.
Makau Mutua, Interim Dean
SUNY Distinguished Professor and
Floyd H. and Hilda L. Hurst Faculty Scholar
UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA LAW SCHOOL -- EMAIL TO STUDENT BODY FROM INTERIM CO-DEANS FRED MORRISON AND GUY CHARLES
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:06:38 -0500
From: Law Deans
Subject: [ALLLAWSCHOOL] UW News Rankings
To: [All Law School]
Dear Faculty, Staff and Students:
Some local newspapers reported this morning that the current U.S. News
Rankings show us in a tie for 22nd place. Many law schools are closely
ranked and a slight shortfall in any one of the technical categories can
lead to a shift of one or two places, as happened this year. The U.S. News
ranking is a combination of many factors (e.g., reputation among other
legal educators and practitioners, LSAT scores of the entering class, what
percentage of applicants we accept, how many books are in the library,
etc.). We plan to address the particular factors that have caused a decline
this year.
One key factor is our reputation among the leaders of other law schools. On
that measure we remain in the Top 20. We expect to build on this academic
reputation, and to address the technical factors that have caused a slight
decline. We also believe that the arrival of a permanent dean - Dean
Wippman - this summer will also help in bolstering our rankings.
Dean Wippman is committed to maintaining and improving the quality of the
school. We look forward to working with him to address this question.
Fred Morrison and Guy Charles
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL -- SCHOOL OF LAW -- EMAIL TO STUDENT BODY FROM DEAN JOHN CHARLES "JACK" BOGER
From: Jack Boger
Date: Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Subject: US News Rankings: 2009/ Carolina Law
To: Law Students
March 27, 2008
Dear Carolina Law Students,
Tomorrow, March 28th, the US News & World Report will officially release its 2009 ranking of law schools. Because those numbers have been widely reported during the past 24 hours on websites throughout the nation, we are sharing them with you today, after the close of business. The results for Carolina Law are mixed; we slipped slightly from 36th to 38th overall. The data nonetheless show big positive developments since last year -- our student/faculty ratio has improved dramatically, from 20.1/1 to 15.7./1; the GPAs of our 2007 entering class are up from 3.39-3.77 (25th and 75th percentiles) to 3.45-3.80; and first-time North Carolina bar passage rates for our May, 2006 graduates are up from to 83.4% to 86.5%. Moreover, we have significantly more resources per student (thanks to the University, the North Carolina General Assembly, and our generous alumni). We have also retained the outstanding scholarly reputational ranking we've long held among other scholars and academics (still 17th in the nation) and among lawyers and judges (still 19th in the nation).
I fully appreciate that rankings do matter to many, including students. Let me assure you that we at Carolina Law will be working every single day during this coming year to strengthen our already excellent faculty, to augment the quality and usefulness of our students' preparation for law practice, and to deepen the assistance we afford each student throughout the academic year and upon graduation.
We will further enlarge the size of our faculty with wonderful new hires. We will continue to attract extraordinarily talented students from North Carolina and throughout the nation. And once our students arrive in Chapel Hill, they will continue do inspired work -- in their classes, in 55 student organizations, in five law reviews and journals, in nationally competitive moot court teams, in splendid lectures and conferences, and in selfless public service activities. We now have a special new source of focus and energy: the University's commitment to build a splendid new law building at Carolina North in the near future, which will reflect the finest in 21st century legal training and community outreach. In sum, there is much of which to be proud.
So how then can we have lost a little ground? Most obvious are US News' reported figures for "employed 9 months after graduation," which at 88.8% seem lower than many of our peers. Yet this year's US News relies on figures for our May, 2006 graduates that are now nearly two years old. During the ensuing two years, Carolina Law has undertaken a major, yearlong study and subsequent reorganization of our Career Services Office. We have made the outstanding hire of Brian Lewis as Assistant Dean. We have increased the CSO professional staff from 2 to 6. Alas, these tremendous changes are not reflected in the new US News data, nor is the placement rate for the most recent, May, 2007 class (which is 93.3%). Thus Carolina Law finds itself judged by a metric that reflects the CSO office of two years ago, before our new CSO leadership, our much improved staffing, and our much clearer mission.
According to US News, Carolina Law also appears to have slipped ever so slightly in our raw reputational score among lawyers and judges. Yet a '3.8' score still places us 19th in the nation, exactly where we stood last year. Indeed, earlier this week, we were heartened when another national survey conducted among 100+ law firms ranked Carolina Law graduates 23rd among all law schools in their knowledge of law, level of skills, and readiness for law practice.
Finally, although we met the US News deadline of October for reporting our total finances per student, that deadline came just BEFORE we actually received a generous and crucial $2 million appropriation in recurring State funds from the North Carolina General Assembly -- new funds that are already having a major, positive impact on student and faculty programs.
North Carolina's state motto, as many of you know, is Esse Quam Videre, to be rather than to seem. We know in our hearts and we experience every day how outstanding and perfectly wonderful this venerable public university law school is. (That's precisely what the ABA site inspection team assured us after their four-day visit in February). We'd very much hope in the future not only to be outstanding (as we are), but also to SEEM so to everyone who glances in our direction. Regrettably, US News has still not fully captured either our present worth or our future trajectory. We will work hard to assure that our 'being' and our 'seeming' will soon coincide. Best wishes to all.
Jack Boger
John Charles Boger
Dean and Wade Edwards Distinguished Professor of Law
School of Law, CB# 3380, University of North Carolina
Law School Rankings: Top 100 Law Schools (PDF) [U.S. News. & World Report]
Earlier: Please Do Not Wet Yourself With Excitement: The 2009 U.S. News Law School Rankings
(583) Comments
FIRE LEVMORE (CHICAGO)
FIRE DEAN LEVMORE *(FIRST AT 10:39)
"is 27 (down from 24 last year)"
Gee, you'd think it was the end of the world.
I don't think it says much for the fortitude of the Iowa law community that they felt they had to "express their anxiety" about dropping three places in the US News. In fact, I think it says they are a bunch of babies. Where's the Midwestern resilience and grit, I ask? Where?
Your law degrees will all be worthless under Shariah Law!
ALLAHU AKBAR
Obama 08
How funny is it that law students bang down the Dean's door to discuss a 3 spot drop in the rankings, but are largely indifferent towards meetings about matters that effect the actual education they receive (e.g.curriculum, budgeting).
That really sucks for Iowa. I graduated from the law school in 2004. When I started in 2001, the law school was tied for 18th place.
10:41 - That's the difference between T25 and non-T25.... A fall from 11 to 14, or 31 to 34, wouldn't matter as much.
What a joke....I've never heard of a serious law school even acknowledge the rankings.....let alone freak out over a 3-point drop. Obviously they don't understand how USNWR works (e.g. the ridiculous fluctuations, the lack of respect they get in the real world, etc.
Univ. of Miami also plummeted. Any news from their dean? Friend who goes to school down there says the faculty could absolutely give a shit about the students, the ranking, or job placement. Im breathing a sigh of relief that my own school is staying in the top 50.
Mutua,
For the record, it is the rankings for 2009, revealed in 2008. Just for the record. Ok, maybe for more than just the record.
I never understood the high rating from Iowa. 27 sounds about right.
Same goes for Vandy.
How did Iowa even get to 27? Iowa's 75th percentile LSAT is only 163, which is the 25th percentile LSAT at Fordham.
If I went to Iowa, but then decided to transfer b/c the school's ranking dropped, would I be able to get into UVA without being ridiculed?
It's so cool to see Nova law move to 65. I just accepted and can't wait to chill out on south beach after class and maybe cruise up to Ft. Lauderdale to check out the chicks on Spring Break.
They should drop another rank for naming their project, and 2 more ranks for calling it the Apollo Project.
GW and GeorgeTTTown Deans are in merger Talks.
Penn Law students rally behind their Big Ten Football team
NYU Dean basks in spotlight
Berkley Dean leads faculty in euphoric bukkake festival
Chicago's Levmore hangs self, returns to Harvard
Penn Law students will be freezing their ass off in Happy Valley for that high Ranking -- great football though!!!
PENN LAW TO TOP 5!!!
Is going from 77 to 100 the worst drop? I had no idea T2 world was so volatile.
Any news from the Penn State camp? In light of their relentless US News trolling and Joe Pa's slide into mediocrity, someone from admin must have thought fit to comment on this.
Chicago's Dean Levmore has started a new ranking projects called the "Snuff Film"... where he openly destroys the law school ranking through faculty losses, internet bans, obama support and libertarian values.
FIRE LEVMORE NOW
Rankings schmankings.
And will somebody get rid of the Obama hater's posts? This threat is starting to look like it belongs in xoxo.
Georgia State Law jumped up 20 spots. At this rate, it will be a Top 50 School (Top Tier) by next year.
Note to Minnesota deans: You are #23, not tied for #22. Notice how the school ranked two spots after yours is #25?
Allahu Akbar just means "god is great".
Why, then, do you keep on repeating it as to insinuate a negative connotation?
Here, Ill say it, Allahu Akbar! (Im christian)
Iowa has a pretty strong faculty, really. Herb Hovenkamp, author of the authoritative antitrust treatise, for example (Areeda & Hovenkamp -- note that Areeda's no longer with us).
Lat -- and other assorted Iowa haters -- I'm gunna bumrush you after gym class. Watch out.
Hey...why don't we implement a system where schools that drop loose their ABA Approved status...better yet, lets tie in prof salaries to how their students fare on the bar....or keep it the same where hacks who can't cut it in the real world get paid watch the backs of 100 lap tops. Rankings are a joke...if they are so important why don't schools adjust their tuition based on them.
And what's most amazing is that 99% of the anti-Obama inspired anti-Muslim crap on here IS COMING FROM HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTERS!!!!!!!!!!! Ah, Democrats.
10:53 - you don't want to know. do not google it at work.
Note to 10:55 - the fact that Minn doesn't have a number next to it means it is tied with the first number to appear above it. It is thus tied with Emory and Notre Dame for 22. Same goes for HLS and Stanford (tied for second). Here's a quarter, buy a clue.
Whats a bigot?
Do they go to UVA?
St.John's plummeted from from 70 to 88--any reverberations on the Queens campus? At least Buffalo is half the price of St. Johns.
i can't wait til hillary digs up more dirt on obama. rev. wright will deliver pennsylvania and ohio for the gop. we will retain iowa, new mexico, colorado, nevada, arizona, and west virginia. we may also pick up michigan, new hampshire, new jersey, oregon, washington, minnesota, and wisconsin.
Admiral Ackbar in '08!
Kudos to 10:49 - hilarious, particularly the "euphoric bukkake" bit.
project apollo? sounds like they had an austin powers-style brainstorming session. are "sharks with frikkin' lasers" involved?
Bigot:
a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. See http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/bigot. See. e.g. 10:42, 10:45, 10:58(2).
Why do these guys care? If you're not in the top 10, USNWR rank is irrelevant to you, since it has classed you as TTT.
If you care about what your law school is ranked, you will spend the rest of your life listening to dave matthew's records and shopping at abercrombie and fitch.
Can someone please explain to me what is the deal with Vandy? I know of no one who talks about wanting to go there, and I've met 0 Biglaw attorneys from there. If 6th Cir opinions are any reflection of the quality of Vandy's top grads, I don't see much talent there either. Is it a Southern thing? Enlighten me, Commodores.
Loyola's employed at graduation percentage is 66.6%. Not kidding.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/items/03009
If I go to UVA, can I expect to be treated with some level of respect if I work for Biglaw?
What's with all the random UVA references today? Is this the new UPENN STATE?
Why aren't people talking about Nova Southeastern's crazy jump in the rankings to a tie for 65?!?!?!?!?!?
How about this: Go to the law school you can afford (or gives you a scholarship) work hard; get good grades; graduate; get paid.
Third Tier
No Debt
225k "walking around money."
Cheers!
Quit bashing my alma mater, the proud UVA Hokies from Blacksburg.
Seriously. Why are people ganging up on UVA?
I always that they had top notch students and faculty.
11:13 -- obviously you aren't too involved in biglaw, because there are many vandy lawyers in biglaw (covington, davis polk, skadden, hogan, williams & connolly are just some i know off the top of my head).
second, the top vandy grads don't go to the 6th circuit. they go to the 9th, 4th, DC, etc. look at that website that lists all the clerks and from what schools. vandy sends to the 6th circuit of course, but its top grads aren't there.
but you obviously know everyone. so i guess you're right.
27. Iowa 3.41-3.86 159-163
46. BYU 3.51-3.86 162-167
BYU has dropped 12 spots from two years ago (from 34). I'd be counting my blessings if I went to Iowa.
What about the Dean of UPenn State or whatever that multicampus law school in Pennsylvania is called? Hs its dean explained its multiple rankings even though its only one school?
11:13 -- obviously you aren't too involved in biglaw, because there are many vandy lawyers in biglaw (covington, davis polk, skadden, hogan, williams & connolly are just some i know off the top of my head).
second, the top vandy grads don't go to the 6th circuit. they go to the 9th, 4th, DC, etc. look at that website that lists all the clerks and from what schools. vandy sends to the 6th circuit of course, but its top grads aren't there.
but you obviously know everyone. so i guess you're right.
Isn't it interesting that none of the academics say, "We're going to do everything in our power to turn out better lawyers from our school?"
Why must it always be about raising money, renovating libraries, attracting big-name faculty members, and so-on? It would be refreshing if someone in the legal-academic community had the confidence to get up there and say that all that matters is the quality of lawyers their school produces. Who cares about U.S. News? Who cares about rankings? My own gut tells me if lawyers had any sense that they were doing something worthwhile, they wouldn't care much at all if their alma mater was ranked 75th or 100th....such statistics are only measuring sticks for the insecure.
11:22 - what website are you talking about? That would be useful info!
11:07, you clearly went to a TTT. Elite schools are classified as T14 for a reason. See, previous thread on USNWR. (And please, nobody call me out for using a signal - I know you're bored waiting for your layoff, but that's too easy.)
What the heck is a Hokie anyway? Sounds like the type of person who gets married to his sister. I didn't know UVA was in West Virginia.
What is the current USNWR ranking for UVA Tech law school and is it really IVY?
Many moons ago a man came from UVA with a promise -- a promise to provide the world with top tier lawyers ready to do cutting edge work for abercrombie and fitch
11:26, you clearly went to one of those schools that couldn't actually make the top 10.
Does anyone else find it strange that there's no "Tier 2" in the rankings? They go from Tier 1 - apparently comprising the first 100 schools - directly to Tier 3.
And hey, Nova Southeastern pseudo-jokester: your attempted jokes about a fourth-tier dump in Fort Slutterdale just ain't funny.
J. Smith (11:19): That's crazy talk!
I'm surprised the University of Penn State Law School hasn't issued a statement after public discovery of its true identity and secret campuses.
@10:46: nobody at Miami seems to care about the drop. The law school community is pretty insular, and I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of students think it's a T50 school.
That said, I don't think we'll be sitting fat for too long, considering Nova's epic jump. The S.Fla legal market is no longer our exclusive oyster, that's for sure.
Anyone notice that Cardozo has fallen out of the list of top IP programs? Has opinion finally caught up with reality?
I can't believe there are people who STILL do not know the difference between UPenn and Penn State. Geez! It doesn't take a Wharden grad to figure that out.
11:07/11:29,
Elite is elite is elite. This will never change. Whether certain schools are 7, 9 or 11 from year to year is inconsequential. "T14" is so-named b/c there is a certain cadre of schools that nobody can ever deny belong to "elite" status.
Sorry your LSAT/GPA/luck sucked.
“They took our land to build this road, and now we can’t even use it,” Mr. Abu Safia says bitterly, pointing to the highway with one hand as he drives with the other. “1. Israel says it is because of security. But it’s politics.”
The object of Mr. Abu Safia’s contempt — Highway 443, a major access road to Jerusalem — has taken on special significance in the grinding Israeli-Palestinian conflict. For the first time, the Supreme Court, albeit in an interim decision, has accepted the idea of separate roads for Palestinians in the occupied areas.
The Association for Civil Rights in Israel told the Supreme Court that what was happening on the highway could be the onset of legal apartheid in the West Bank — a charge that makes many Israelis recoil.
Built largely on private Palestinian land, the road was first challenged in the Supreme Court in the early 1980s when the justices, in a landmark ruling, permitted it to be built because the army said its primary function was to serve the local Palestinians, not Israeli commuters. . . This month, as some 40,000 Israeli cars — and almost no Palestinians — use it daily.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/world/middleeast/28road.html?ref=middleeast
I am currently enrolled in UVA Law. Please leave us out of whatever discussion you are having. We don't bother you with trite little remarks!!!
Why don't you 'all just grow up!!!
11:26
I won't call you out for using a signal, but I will call you out for misusing it. The 'see' doesn't get a comma after it; 'see, e.g.' does.
The only thing to be embarrassed about is falling into a new tier or out of the top 25. So Iowa, Fordham and UIUC should be upset, as should those shit schools that are now T2 or T3 (though there are 104 schools in the top 100 now, thanks to ties).
“They took our land to build this road, and now we can’t even use it,” Mr. Abu Safia says bitterly, pointing to the highway with one hand as he drives with the other. “1. Israel says it is because of security. But it’s politics.”
The object of Mr. Abu Safia’s contempt — Highway 443, a major access road to Jerusalem — has taken on special significance in the grinding Israeli-Palestinian conflict. For the first time, the Supreme Court, albeit in an interim decision, has accepted the idea of separate roads for Palestinians in the occupied areas.
The Association for Civil Rights in Israel told the Supreme Court that what was happening on the highway could be the onset of legal apartheid in the West Bank — a charge that makes many Israelis recoil.
Built largely on private Palestinian land, the road was first challenged in the Supreme Court in the early 1980s when the justices, in a landmark ruling, permitted it to be built because the army said its primary function was to serve the local Palestinians, not Israeli commuters. . . This month, as some 40,000 Israeli cars — and almost no Palestinians — use it daily.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/world/middleeast/28road.html?ref=middleeast
The paranoia about rankings is hilarious. Bottom line - by the 5th year of practice no one gives a crap where you went to school. I've met my fair share of T25 graduates that could not work as designated note takers for graduates of so called "lesser" law schools.
The same folks that freak out about rankings are the very folks that use their degrees as a means to fill some empty void in their lives. I see your kind every day in (insert random over priced eatery, golf club, weekend bar, etc.) with your sweatshirts....
The reality is: Its a piece of fancy paper that acts as a ticket to take the bar in most states...sorry. It may open some doors early in your career, but those doors will shut tighter than Chuck Norris' sphincter on Rikers Island if you don't produce quality work.
Speaking of work, I better get back to it. Maybe I can get out of the office early and catch my spouse banging her personal trainer with a High School equivalency certificate.
Go Blue!
11:35: "Elite is elite is elite." Profound. Good luck coasting through life.
I'm sick of hearing about Iowa. I hardly even know where Iowa is. Who cares.
To law school deans and adminsitrators: many years ago US News was short of revenue. Some bright young staffer (who probably had an MBA) came up with an idea for new revenue - let's start ranking things and use our nation-wide reach to become a niche industry. The rest is history.
Their tail is wagging your dog - exercise whatever professional courage you have and take a stand - all you are doing is contributing to the irrationality and misery of the law school process and putting money in their pockets.
11:19 are you serious? People are TTT schools have no debt? Rrrrrrrrrrrright. Even people on Law Rev. at TTT schools have debt.
More importantly, notice how Louisville Brandeis was ranked 69 in 2004, 97 in 2008 and has now dropped to 100 in 2009.
The drop coincides with Jack Cox's arrival at Louisville in the Admissions Dept and each year that he's at UL they keep dropping in rank....I wonder if he's being paid to sabotage the place. They are 1 spot away from being TTT. Pride comes before a fall. Enjoy the dropping value of your degree.
i meant, people at TTT schools have no debt??? maybe i should have gone to louisville.
If someone wants to piss on UVA, far be it from me to stop them. I have friends there and I don't think they would stop them either.
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Lat: Can you block irrelevant/weird/creepy political posts like this d-bag?
------------------------
Your law degrees will all be worthless under Shariah Law!
ALLAHU AKBAR
Obama 08
JT says the ABA needs to stop accrediting school after school after school.
What happened to the dean search at Buffalo -- they interviewed a bunch of candidates in December -- shouldn't they have announced a winner by now?
I second 11:48.
Iowa needs to take a page out of Northwestern's playbook. Simply employ all of your idiot students who don't get jobs after graduation. 100% graduation would help. It might also help to move out of Iowa.
The guy bashing UVa is the same guy from Gtown, GULCGULC, who was talking all that smack yesterday. He need to zip it before someone outs him.
This thread was initially about Iowa and Buffalo, yet no one from Buffalo has posted. Is the internet available up there or is it just too cold to type?
11:25 -- it's something like lawclerkaddict.blogspot.com (if you google "law clerk addict," it should come up.
Congrats to Hofstra -- second tier, passes Buffalo, near St. Johns, and leaves NYLS and Pace in the dust.
11:43:
It should come as no surprise that your Louisville Law School has plummeted in the rankings since it hired a porn star to helm its Admissions Office. Without question, celebrity appointments to high-profile positions within a school's administration can be a real enrollment -booster, but Jack Cox? Come on. I mean, he was great in "Horny Paralegals IX," but pretige in smut doesn't always translate into competence in law school administration.
GW = America
We love Fred!
Just a Thought:
You may be the dumbest person in the world. That is all.
Why should Iowa be penalized for following its public mandate and accepting students from in state with comparatively worse LSAT's?
Iowa is already penalized enough in real life for being 350 miles from the nearest big legal market.
Dear UCLA Students,
It's not me. It's you.
HofGuy--I second that--keep up the good work.
Iowa is being punished for voting for Huckabee.
11:25 -- it's something like lawclerkaddict.blogspot.com (if you google "law clerk addict," it should come up).
Maybe then people will stop bashing Detroit Law and give them a little respect.
Thats all I am saying.
And can we stop referring to urination in our posts. Please?
Do GW students not understand that many people would be furious if their school were ranked 20 this year?
At least these schools didn't drop from 3rd tier to 4th tier like mine
Divide and conquer is right. This whole effort is nothing more than a superficial attempt to placate students, get them to believe that the administration is doing something other than covering their own asses so that they can hold onto their jobs, and ultimately get an idea of which students are the apostates. It's amazing how patronizing that email is. Just more proof that the administration thinks that students are naive and stupid.
Oh, and it's not just three points that Iowa has dropped. A few years ago, Iowa was at 18. There are some deep seated structural problems for why this is happening, but I have no doubt that the administration will continue on their course of pushing their social agendas rather than preparing people for the profession and then have a avenue of connection with employers so that people who are serious about a legal career can obtain gainful employment. Crash and burn, baby, crash and burn.
To all you future law students check out these threads before making the decision to go to Iowa.
http://jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=5586
http://jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=7055
If 3rd tier = TTT, what's 4th?
11:36,
You're either 1) 10 seconds from getting your pink slip or 2) already laid off.
There is a fourth tier?
I'm a Buffalo alum. I had a good experience there and got a job at a large firm. It's the same now as it was then regardless of the rankings: a good school at a good price.
UVA PRE-SCREENS RESUMES FOR OCI UVA PRE-SCREENS RESUMES FOR OCIUVA PRE-SCREENS RESUMES FOR OCI UVA PRE-SCREENS
RESUMES FOR OCI
What does this even mean?
Yes, GW does understand that there are students that would be furious if their school was ranked 20.
Does 12:01 understand that there are about 160 law school that would have loved to have been ranked 20?
Does 12:01 understand that GW is happy to be back in the top 20 after last year's slip?
The GW trolling is more about having fun. Most of us are quite happy with our school and our peers and our post-Grad jobs. We have placement at almost every V100 firm except Wachtell (to my knowledge). We have a good social life. Our SBA makes sure we have law school social events, and we are able to enjoy life outside law school as well.
Would we like a higher ranking? Sure, who wouldn't. But we're please with where we are, and we expect to continue rising.
If not, so be it. Most of us are pretty pleased with our legal education.
GW = America
"UVA PRE-SCREENS
RESUMES FOR OCI
What does this even mean?"
You better find out, before foolishly accepting at UVA.
There's a steady trickle every year of Buff kids to the top NYC firms. Great faculty.
The GW trolling is not fun or funny.
Now the U. Penn St. provided some quality entertainment.
What ever happened to WGWAG and FRATSTUD? I kind of miss their useless posts.
And one of out own will be clerking at SCOTUS this year. So that is pretty cool too.
(And I know, some school get this every year...blah blah blah - it is cool!)
The GW trolling is not fun or funny.
Now the U. Penn St. trolling provided some quality entertainment.
What ever happened to WGWAG and FRATSTUD? I kind of miss their useless posts.
12:03
I didn't think so.....until today....
Divide and conquer is right. This is nothing more than a superficial attempt to placate students, get them to believe that the administration cares about anything other than covering their own rear-ends so that they can keep their jobs, and ultimately find out who the apostates are among the student ranks. It's amazing how patronizing that email is. Just more proof that the administration thinks that students are naive and stupid.
Oh, it's not just three points Iowa has dropped. A few years ago the school was ranked at 18. There are deep seated structural reasons for why this is happening, but I have no doubt that the adminitration will continue to push their social agenda at the expense of actually training people for the profession and then have viable avenues of employment for those who are serious about have a legal career.
Crash and burn, baby, crash and burn!
I did not realize that Buff Kids were trickling anywhere.
That is disgusting and vulgar.
Your philosophy is complicit - RISE UP.
11:41/YLS grad:
Thank you for your "coasting through life" advice. Coming from someone who doesn't actually get grades and just relies on the incestuous relationship his school has with BigLaw, your words are taken to heart.
GDubLove--Do you have a date for the 3L prom? Do you plan on staying out all night to see the sunrise?
11:43(2) and 11:45(1): TTT (and TTTT) schools give tuition scholarships to students that have high LSAT scores and GPAs, to encourage good students to enroll and not transfer. Thus, most top 5 grads from these schools have little or no debt from tuition, and have likely served on the law review editorial board etc. It may not be good enough for V5 firms, but definitely good enough for V50 (and guess what - we still get paid the same).
TTTT to 180!